Chekhov MacGuffin

But it's not canon for the manga. The manga and movie canon are different. There are no hints in the manga that Kaito Kid knows Conan is Shinichi; sure Kaito Kid knows Conan is abnormally smart and probably knows about the bowtie, but that doesn't doesn't mean Kaito Kid thinks Conan is a shrunken someone instead of a child prodigy. As proof, compare how Kaito Kid in the movies behaves versus the manga. In the movies, Kaito Kid teases Conan about being Shinichi frequently. The beginning of Movie 8 is a perfect example. In the manga there is no such "Shinichi teasing", only the regular generic sort.Additionally, I would think it's strange for Kaito to suspect something was amiss with Conan's identity, although I wouldn't be surprised if he is wondering what is up with Conan. If we are going to be rigorous, all the evidence that Kaito can use to deduce Conan's identity must have come from the cases that occurred before the third movie chronologically when it was first shown that Kaito Kid knows. Movie three came out into theaters April 17, 1999. The plot of the movie was probably decided a year before. Only three (I assume) cases with Kaito had appeared in the manga before the screen time: Kaito Kid on a boat (156-159), The Meeting of Magicians in the snowy cabin (192-196), and I am going to guess the Magic Kaito Clocktower meeting. That's not much interaction time with Conan for Kid to base deductions off of. For Kaito Kid to realize Conan and Shinichi are the same person he needs to make four observations and connect the dots. #1: Conan is not like a normal Kid - I believe Kaito figured this out the first time he met Conan on the roof of the Haido City hotel. By the end of the meeting of the magicians, I'm sure he is impressed with Conan's deductive abilities. #2: Kudo Shinichi went missing the same time Conan appeared. - First off, does Kaito Kid even care that much about Shinichi? Shinichi only showed up at one of Kaito's heists, so it's not like Shinichi was ever a regular concern like Hakuba or Inspector Nakamori. In other words, Shinichi should be low on Kaito's interest list; would Kid even notice that Shinichi has been out of the papers recently and if so, does he care since they only met once previously? Also, even if he noticed that Shinichi disappeared around the same time Kogoro began to hit the papers, it's not like Conan's presence was published along with it. Kid would have to hammer down that Conan didn't appear before or after Kogoro started hitting the stands. Eisuke managed to figure this out, so it isn't impossible; however, Eisuke had an extremely strong motivating interest to closely examine the goings on of the detective agency that Kaito Kid does not have: Rena's disappearance after Kogoro met with her. Additionally, Shinichi has appeared at least once in person at a case before the third movie and has tricked Ran into believing Shinichi and Conan are two separate people as well. Since then, Conan has constructed even more elaborate tricks to solidify the identity alibi. In effect, every other character acts like Shinichi is out on a tough case, so if Kaito probed and discovered this, why would he suspect that it is not the truth when it is the most obvious thing to assume when Kaito did not witness any of the events and thus has no clues about how Conan managed to create the illusion that Conan and Shinichi exist simultaneously? Even if Kaito began to suspect that a case was not the thing holding up Shinichi, the next most logical thing would be that Kudo got into some trouble and is in hiding. In short, there isn't a good reason for Kaito to conclude Shinichi is gone when there are more reasonable hypotheses, especially when the motivation to go deeper isn't there. #3: Conan and Shinichi are a lot alike. - This is going to be difficult for Kaito who had never met Shinichi personally and thus will not have anyone to compare Conan to. On the personality side, Kaito Kid didn't even get the chance to acquaint himself with Shinichi's deduction style at the clocktower heist because he wasn't listening directly to Shinichi making deductions or giving orders, only watching how the police seemed to do a very good job of tracking him. As for physical details, he may notice how Conan and Shinichi look alike if he remembers Shinichi's face from older papers (if he cared enough about Shinichi to notice in the first place), but Conan is supposed to be related to Shinichi so it is also reasonable to assume they are coincidentally similar looking. #4: Shinichi somehow de-aged and turned into Conan - It definitely requires some imagination to even suspect something like this happened. Eisuke came to this conclusion but decided not to puzzle out how it happened but assumed it did based on his strong convictions about 1-3 above. I suppose if Kaito Kid believes in the Pandora thing which probably isn't canon to DC, then he might accept that Shinichi shrank into Conan, but it would have to be a least preferred logical conclusion.

New might mean he only go his alcohol codename recently, but has actively been working for the BO for a while as a lower level agent. I don't think Gin and Vodka wouldn't know so much about a completely new agent. Gin seems to familiar enough with him: he would have had to meet with and work with him probably a few times before in order to know about his personality and dislike him. Vodka knows about the hate of Akai thing already. No, I am not talking about Kaneshiro Genichirou. I am talking about the old man from the Camel's Past story in File 607 pg 9. Camel came out and told him to go away, which blew Akai's cover and got him rejected from the Org.

Now that I look at it, Mitsuhiko's parent's gender is drawn a bit ambiguously. I suppose it could go either way.

It's been a little under twelve years since Kaito Kid found out in the films. If it was to be I think it would have happened by now.

The problem is that the movies are not canon to the main manga storyline. Sometimes things trickle down like Shiratori and Yamamura's promotion, but most of it never happens manga-wise. A perfect example is how Kid knows Conan is Shinichi in the movies, but doesn't know in the manga.

Okiya Subaru knows Conan is Shinichi for sure. Takagi probably doesn't know although I'm sure he wonders what exactly is up with Conan. I think the main problem is that he has only seen Shinichi a few times and he hasn't put two and two together yet. I secretly wonder if Kogoro knows and is only acting dumb to cover for Shinichi. He has figured out Shinichi must be in deep if he wound up a grade-schooler again and doesn't want to become involved in the problem until Shinichi is ready to tell him. He hits Conan when Conan starts becoming too noticeable.

Scooped!

It think even for a loyal BO agent, a non-senior agent getting ordered to kill Akai is a surprise given his reputation. Also Kir needed to play the naive role for the psychological trap she is inflicting on Gin. If she doesn't act surprised, Gin might think she expected the order which might cause the fake Akai's death plan to fail if Gin realizes they could have anticipated it and planned accordingly.As for the risk of suspicion, given the plan the FBI used it was unavoidable. Kir got back in one piece, Akai didn't make a strong move, and the FBI were totally predictable. It wasn't Akai or Conan's idea to move Rena in the vans, it was the rest of the FBI who came up with that one and Conan and Akai tacked their plan on top. Rena's trump card lies in alleviating said suspicion by pretending to assassinate Akai.

The manga goes faster than the anime. If you have any questions, feel free to ask me, or take a look at the wiki which has gotten a lot better lately at comprehensively covering character's back-stories.

Here is the Black Organization plot chapters minimized to as few things to read as possible. If you follow this list, you will have missed some important character introductions, romance developments, and hints needed to solve the Vermouth arc, Kir arc, and Bourbon arc so prepare to be spoiled. Honestly I think it is worth it to read through it the slow way. ------------------------------------------------------------ Short list of all the chapters important to the plot. This list skips almost all the Hattori Heiji chapters, the Conan turns back to Shinichi chapters, Kaito Kid chapters, Ran suspects Conan's identity chapters, romance chapters etc. Conan arc (12 chapters + bits) 1-2 16 33-35 (Only 33 is really necessary) 92-95 96: pages 1-10 114-116 121: 16-end Ai Haibara/ Sherry arc (15 chapters) 176-181 234-242 Vermouth arc (37 chapters + bits, or 44 chapters with the optional org case) 255-258: You don't have to read this deeply, just flip through it as fast as you can. 270-272 287-289 325-327 337: pages 14 to end 338-343 350-354 377-383: (Optional black org. case: it really isn't necessary) 419: last page only 420-428 Warning the solution to the Vermouth arc is in the next block of chapters 429-434 470: pages 1-7 474: last two pages 475: pages 1-6 Mizunashi Rena and Hondou Eisuke arc (total chapters to read = 24+bits) 499-504 508-510: 552: pages 16 to end of chapter 553: 554: pages 1 - 4 555: pages: last two pages 585: pages 1 - 12 586: 12 to end 587: 11 to 14 590: pages 17-18 only The next block of chapters is the solution arc so make any guesses now. 595-609 (Fifteen chapters of pure awesome. Just skim through the section about the company president's murder case.) 621 -11 to end Bourbon Arc (total chapters to read = 17.1) 622-624 638-640 664-666 677-679 699- last page only 700-704

In a disguise of course, like he's doing now with the burnt Akai face. Vermouth probably helped back then too.

If we are on the topic of why Bourbon hates Akai, I'm in the romantic triangle camp unless evidence comes along to change that. Of course there is zero evidence for my current theory. Akai and Bourbon both really dig Akemi, but Akemi likes Akai. Meanwhile, Akai was slowly distinguishing himself among the ranks of the organization, but Bourbon -who may also be distinguishing himself at the same time or had already done so- doesn't trust Akai. Eventually, Akai is given the codename Rye and is called to work under Gin, but has to pass a "final loyalty test." (Props if this was designed by Bourbon.) Akai is going to meet Gin in a warehouse where, unknown to the MiB, the FBI have set up an ambush for Gin. Meanwhile, a mysterious old man comes in and sits down. (We never did figure out who this man was. It could be Vermouth in disguise, but why send another high ranking agent into a potential ambush without scoping it out first with a low rank dude? What if it was Bourbon who wasn't so high ranked at the time? The black coat and hat is similar (it's a stretch)) Akai ignores him, but Camel reveals himself and the rest we know about. This incident was the figurative fatal blow intended for Akai, but Akai escapes and it ultimately seals Akemi's fate. Akemi was going to be killed one way or another as a liability. Despite Bourbon's love for Akemi, he would have had to cut himself off from her or risk the Org's rejection for being a liability because of his emotional attachments. Furthermore, Akemi is still loyal to Akai despite knowing he was "the enemy" and was using her which only salts Bourbon's wounds. This would explain why Bourbon hates Akai's guts. The reason I like this theory is because it explains why scar Akai protected Conan in the Teito bank heist; he recognized Conan from the newspaper article that came out about Akemi's death.

I posted a picture of Mitsuhiko's dad in this thread on the previous page and in his wiki article too.

I like how the BO members all interact with one another because they are different types of people. To pull out the somewhat stale alignment system... Gin is a lawfully evil character: he follows the rules by the principle, and likes a well ordered Organization where people follow the chain of command. He hates traitors and is suspicious of those who bend the rules or do their own thing. Vodka is lawfully evil as well in that he also follows the chain of command and likes a well ordered Org. Vermouth is probably a chaotic neutral with significant evil flavoring; she obeys explicit orders, but tends to do what pleases her, even if it is bad for the Organization like protecting Conan and Ran. Gin is often the one on her case for not reporting in when she should or messing around. Her willingness to blackmail unwilling people to murder and kill innocent people to gain a better position for her own ends ensures she is still on the dark side even after Shinichi and Ran's influence. Chianti seems to be portrayed as chaotic evil. She would snipe people's heads off left and right if Gin didn't put his foot down. Korn seems more restrained than Chianti, but who knows what he is really thinking. Akai is neutral good. He doesn't often report in on FBI missions and executes his own plans without telling anyone, but goes along with the FBI's plans often enough to avoid the chaotically good designation. Kir is probably lawfully good, but her spy status means she is working against the structure she works in. Sherry in the Org was a true neutral. She just wanted to work on her drug, but isn't particularly evil or good. She was obedient most of the time but she also follows her own principles shown when she was against the APTX 4869 being tested on humans and when she boycotted the drug development when the Org killed her sister. Since her escape she has moved towards lawful good. I'll be curious to see how Bourbon ends up.

While I don't want Kid to get involved with the DC storyline a la Pandora and versus the Black org, I don't mind if he is involved other ways tangentially. I thought it was a nice development that Toichi taught Sharon aka. Vermouth and Yukiko disguise techniques. I also wouldn't want Kaito Kid to be friends with Conan/Shinichi. We lost Heiji as a rival soon after the first case he was in. Hakuba has worked as a rival to Conan/Shinichi so far, but he rarely shows up. Kaito Kid is one of the few remaining true rivals for Conan. I just wish his cases were better...

It's not like I have been a staff member for long, but why don't you guys decide on some questions and the rules and stuff and run a test version? Unless a staff member volunteers (I'm not, sorry), it will most likely be one of you who designs the game and works as "Game Master". It could be played in the offtopic section like how DCTP does Mafia. You might want to also discuss it with Detective Kudo who posted pretty much the same thing as you guys did.

With a movie title like Green Hornet, are you sure "Apitoxin" doesn't refer to bees? The "api" prefix is associated with bees, being used in words like "Apiary" (a place where beehives are kept), "Apiology" (Study of honeybees), and "Apis" (a bee genus). Apis means bee in latin. Apoptoxin refers to "apoptosis" which is is the process of programmed cell death and is entirely different from bees.

Sorry if I didn't express it clearly, but my point has always been that Sharon switched to Chris for two reasons:1: Vermouth doesn't age, and she looks somewhere in her late 20s now, so it is easier for her to live as a younger person rather than the older Sharon which requires makeup. 2: Sharon is being investigated by the FBI for the crime 20 years ago and most likely recent crimes as well. By switching to Chris she has a clean record. Vermouth planned on switching to Chris a long time ago because she has been working on creating a separate Chris identity for many years. (I believe her plans had been in the works for 10+ years.) At first, the reason could be entirely number 1 and maybe planning ahead in case two happened, but as she came under more investigation as Sharon, reason number 2 became important as well. Vermouth didn't know that Jodie was the daughter of the FBI agent she killed twenty years ago during her Sharon disguise period and that Jodie had a sample of Vermouth's fingerprints. Vermouth also didn't count on Jodie figuring it out and proving that Sharon is Chris quickly. Jodie put two and two together and now the heat is back on Chris and she knows it because the FBI followed her to Japan and investigated her. Because she is being investigated as heavily as she is, Vermouth knows or at least strongly suspects the FBI figured out Sharon is Chris. It might not have been convenient to the BO for Vermouth to lose her ability to move in high society. At the time, Vermouth thought she could get away with switching to Chris and killing off Sharon. On what grounds would Chris be arrested if the FBI doesn't know Sharon is Chris? Remember, Chris has a clean record. Jodie did what you said and believed it. Akai also believed it too based on Jodie's investigation. Jodie and Akai's view was age contradiction be damned, they are same person anyway and we'll figure out how she tricked everyone when we haul her in for questioning. You are correct that it isn't strictly necessary, but it makes it far more believable for her to create a history for the person she is switching into. Vermouth is a master of disguise and the FBI knows this. Sharon doesn't conceal her disguise abilities, she openly used them in front of a crowd of people in the NY case. If Sharon disappeared and Chris appeared, the first logical thought would be that Vermouth disguised as Chris Vineyard and is wearing a mask. The apparent age difference doesn't matter if the FBI thinks it is all a mask. Right, and my rebuttal was that Sharon doesn't need to be a second generation actress to break in when she has the BO's support. Kir became a TV personality easily despite having no background and Vermouth is both talented and beautiful, qualities needed for an actress. Both are similar in that although both mom and child disguises existed simultaneously some time before, only after the death of the mother did the daughter come out and take center stage. Sharon's mom died after Sharon debuted on screen which coincides with Sharon receiving a lot of publicity. Vermouth hadn't studied under Toichi yet, so although she could likely disguise well back then, may not have had the confidence to pull off disguising as both mother and daughter after daughter has acquired some fame. In the most recent incarnation, Chris only appeared to act in screen plays and give interviews; her private life was a black box. Sharon meanwhile had a private life, although at her age (40s to 50s), her acting career was probably much slower giving time her to play Chris. Adding to the parallels, Sharon and Chris both lost their fathers as well: Sharon's father died in the fire at the time of her mother's death, Chris's father died after Sharon won an Oscar. My point was that The "Sharon's mom/Sharon" story wasn't that different from the "Sharon/Chris" story, if Vermouth could pull off one, she could pull off the other. The lack of info makes it impossible to prove that it happened, if Vermouth is Sharon's mom, it matches up nicely with the timeframe that Vermouth, as Sharon's mom, whatever her career was, took something in her twenties over fifty years ago that stopped her aging. It coincides with the start of the BO's project over 50 years ago, and her hatred for the Miyanos who may have been studying her and created APTX 4869 from their analysis. I assume you mean "Sharon said to Yukiko". I feel the need to point out that what Sharon said about the timing and could be a lie and she could be backdating. (We have no idea when Sharon revealed Chris's existence to the world.) It doesn't matter though because even if Sharon created Chris over ten years ago, I already explained why she planned that far in advance at the top of this post in reason 1. It's not a direct acknowledgment, but you can tell by the feeling of the scene and her lack of objection to Shinichi that she seems to accept it as a possibility. (It's V42-10 pages 4 and 5) Shinichi is the kind of person who, if he doesn't want to believe that someone he valued or trusted is a culprit, will do everything to prove that person isn't the guilty one (see Ray Curtis case). I would imagine that Yukiko wouldn't take Conan's deductions lying down when it came to her friend. She had the time to talk it out with him as she prepared Conan's disguise and even after that she still can't reject Conan's words despite the time she was with Sharon.

Rena is a trained CIA agent on an infiltration mission. If she wasn't trained to act and react naturally under questioning I would eat my sock. If scar Akai is Bourbon then it stands to reason Conan is shocked because Akai was supposed to be in disguise, not wandering around in the open with a "shoot me" sign on his back. It makes sense because the method Akai used to escape as described in above wiki article would not leave him with memory loss. Also, you now have been hit with a halibut.Also before you ask what the real Akai is doing if Scar Akai is Bourbon, this article: Okiya is Akai Theory

A Bourbon article has been mainspaced. ( http://www.detectiveconanworld.com/wiki/Bourbon ) There isn't much new info though.

I'll be cynical with you; she probably won't find out until the "final problem" although I'm sure she will have couple rounds of suspicions between then. I think the Bourbon arc will have a round of suspicion near Bourbon's reveal.

We already have discussion threads for the most recent manga cases where people vote for who they think the culprit is and post theories about how the crime was committed/how the protagonists will escape/. The same goes for the long plot arcs: Okiya Subaru, scar Akai, Bourbon, the boss, Vermouth, etc... It's not exactly a contest format, but I don't know how many people would be confident enough to post deductions if the threads were a battle between users. You could try to set one up when the next manga case is released or for the most recent anime case and see how it goes.

It wasn't at a funeral, it was some other time before. There was no one else around to corroborate that story. It could be something Sharon made it up. Or maybe Sharon was lying about the husband being dead and the husband actually went with Sharon to visit his own grave because he's part of the BO and faked his death, and Sharon later changed the story to say Chris did it.