Boss of The Black Organization?

[PetePete]

If its someone that would shock Ai then let's narrow it down to the people she knows that doesn't activate her sense then.

With the Eri and Sherry thing, so what if they haven't met? Heiji and his girl didn't meet her if I'm not mistaken, nor did the kids correct? Btw Ai's BO senses didn't activate when bourbon pulled up behind the truck when the detective boys were trapped freezing in it. Maybe her senses activate when one of the Bo members is about to do a dangerous act or they are looking for danger maybe?

[KirisatoSei]

No. Heiji and the girl (not sure about the girl) met up with Haibara Ai for quite a few times. Besides, Heiji knows Haibara. Remember, He posed as Kudou in the Ghost Ship Murder Case while Conan is catching Vermouth (who seriously wanted to eliminate Sherry at the time). I don;t know the details (or just too lazy to give the exact chapters but Heiji knows who Haibara is.) As for why i suggested that Eri and Ai not being able to meet is something interesting, it's because it's due to the fact that both people are "strong characters" in the series. They aren't stupid. I sure as hell will guarantee that Eri is suspicious or already knows who Conan is. And her meeting up w/ Haibara will be something to watch out for.

 

For the Eri Theory:

 

As all of those who read the theory knows, ALMOST EVERYTHING that we know about Anokata's behavior strangely fits to Eri's personality too. Just read the theory. I also posted my thoughts about the theory somewhere on the late 40-ish pages here in this topic. BUT I had to agree with Chekhov. The only thing that Gosho made to kill this theory is the fact that Gin had permission from Anokata to kill Mouri himself which completely blows the  theory away!

 

As for Sherry's reactions to B.O.:

 

here is my opinion: 

 

 

Also Gosho didn't specifically said that ONLY Haibara will be surprised... This clue is very vague.. It may be a misdirection by Gosho himself.. When fans heard about this clue, they immediately came to 3 conclusions.. 1.) that Ai won't expect him/her to be the boss 2.) That it's either someone very close to Ai.. (her "radar" sense to BO members wont work) 3.) that it may be part of Ai's family.. See? After this clue.. all thoughts are centered around this idea.. I don't know if this is very "reliable" or not.. but they disregard the fact that Gosho himself didnt specifically pointed out that ONLY Ai will be surprised.. He is a master manipulator.. Hell , that's why we're all hooked to his series.. That's why I'm having reservations on these train of thoughts and theories about Ai.. By saying that clue.. he already shifted the balance.. it all gravitated to Ai.. The character of Sherry was heavily scrutinized.. that's why Atsushi family members (even her dead sister) was very popular theories for boss candidates.. Lol.. 

 

And likewise I still don't know why Vermouth would shoot Calvados just to save Ran. I know that Vermouth was fond of Ran (in the Golden apple Case) but to jeopardize the whole operation just to save Ran?!??!

 

Nahhhh. Something's off..

 

{(made a mistake in the first quote box.. too lazy to change coz it's already morning here ) i hope the guys here wont mind.}

[PetePete]

She didn't shoot him....?

[KirisatoSei]

It was a warning shot while calvados was sniping afar.. though she didn't "shoot" him directly, but to fire a warning shot is good enough to ask why on Earth did vermouth do that....

[User 4869]

Vermouth believe she had control over the situation. The whole point of warning shot is how far Vermouth can go on valuing Ran life.

[KirisatoSei]

Vermouth believe she had control over the situation. The whole point of warning shot is how far Vermouth can go on valuing Ran life.

 

Which is exactly interesting in it's own way.. While it is true that she's fond of Ran but if anything else,I'd say He owes a lot more to Kudou for saving her life while she was posing as a serial killer to lure out Akai. She is very interested to Kudou for being the "silver bullet" but why Ran? 

 

I can't stop myself from suspecting that Vermouth knows Eri Kisaki (hence, more fire in my Eri Kisaki Theory). Seeing that Eri and Yukiko are childhood friends/rivals, and Yukiko becoming an apprentice of the 1st Kaitou kid (together w/ Vermouth), I think that those three had a connection.  Hence, Vermouth have an unexplained affection for Ran. Strong enough for her to go that far...

[User 4869]

Which is exactly interesting in it's own way.. While it is true that she's fond of Ran but if anything else,I'd say He owes a lot more to Kudou for saving her life while she was posing as a serial killer to lure out Akai. She is very interested to Kudou for being the "silver bullet" but why Ran? 

 

 

 

Ran is the first to grab serial killer hand after he/she fall, not Kudo. After she tried to shoot Ran. Her generosity know no bound in this case. Kudo only help complete the act and explain the reason. I dont think Vermouth begin calling Kudo "Silver bullet" after this. Actually, she call him cool guy, but call him silver bullet when Conan stop her plan to capture/kill Haibara.

 

 

I can't stop myself from suspecting that Vermouth knows Eri Kisaki (hence, more fire in my Eri Kisaki Theory). Seeing that Eri and Yukiko are childhood friends/rivals, and Yukiko becoming an apprentice of the 1st Kaitou kid (together w/ Vermouth), I think that those three had a connection.  Hence, Vermouth have an unexplained affection for Ran. Strong enough for her to go that far...

 

 

As stated above. Vermouth has no second thought in shooting Ran. At that point, in the alley, Vermouth refrain from killing Ran and Kudo because she lost her silencer, which mean Akai will come after her if she shoot (Not because the save her life). Well, I think I use these argument before when someone propose that Eri and Vermouth, who never appear together, in the same person. But in this case mean Vermouth/Eri tried to kill her daughter, a conflict behavior.

[PetePete]

Ok now that we have that cleared up, can we name some organizations in the DC universe? Might give us a clue

[dorrag]

I am a recent newcomer to DC - originally to fill up time until BBC Sherock. Manga only, I should add.

And I have one question: there is quite interesting dialogue taking place at the end of V41C02 (A Strange Gunshot), which I don't know whether it is attributable to multiple translations (Jpn-Viet-En) or if it is author's intention:

 

 

[Yukiko, quoting Yusaku] People often follow the old way of thinking! Tell that person my original sentence. And that was it.

[unclear whether Eri or Ran] Who is that person?

[Yukiko] Of course... that is you. (facing Eri)

 

So far I haven't seen this exchange mentioned. Does anybody feel it could have any significance?

 

And if the official BO name isn't something like BrewEri or DistillEri, I will be just a little bit dissapointed :-)

[dorrag]

One more observation that I am not sure whether it was discussed before. Eri is not divorced, still has feelings for Mouri, some level of nostalgy would be expected... Then, looking at Mouri's name - Kogoro - I find its kanji structure interesting. It consists of 3 characters: Small, Five, Son(s). Could there be some link to Nanatsu no Ko? (Although there is a difference of two children. And yes, I shouldn't know about the song while still reading Vol.41, but since the time I have read Umineko, I find spoilers irresistible ^_~)

[Quol]

I would guess that the relationship between the boss and Vermouth is a bad one.

-Vermouth repeatedly let go of conan who she believes would bring the destruction of the organization, implying that she views Conan's safety higher than that of the boss'

-At New York she said that no angel has ever smiled upon her, back then she dressed up as a serial killer which means she was already part of the organization and meet the boss, but didnt consider the boss her "angel"

 

This brings me to think that the boss values Vermouth while Vermouth doesnt value the boss.

[Chekhov MacGuffin]

I would guess that the relationship between the boss and Vermouth is a bad one.

-Vermouth repeatedly let go of conan who she believes would bring the destruction of the organization, implying that she views Conan's safety higher than that of the boss'

-At New York she said that no angel has ever smiled upon her, back then she dressed up as a serial killer which means she was already part of the organization and meet the boss, but didnt consider the boss her "angel"

 

This brings me to think that the boss values Vermouth while Vermouth doesnt value the boss.

You definitely bring up an interesting point when you state their relationship like this. Most focus on how Vermouth feels about the Organization in general instead of how Vermouth feels about the boss and the consequences of that. I feel like it is the opposite conclusion, the boss values Vermouth, but does not care about her with the depth or strength she does for him. The boss seems to have some concrete reason for caring about Vermouth (like she doesn't age), but Vermouth seems to care about the boss deeply as a person rather than for a certain reason.

 

There must be something keeping Vermouth loyal to the boss. She still does follow his orders -- she genuinely seemed to care (and not be angry) when the boss pulled her leash short after the haunted ship disaster. Vermouth doesn't sabotage the Organization in all the ways she is capable of without being caught for some reason. However, whatever that loyalty tie is, it doesn't keep her from allowing people to undermine the boss's will - the his plans and Organization's operation. Vermouth appears to dislike whatever the goal of the Organization is as far as the Miyanos go and seems to care little for the success or failure of its other plans, like Kir's assassination plot (She almost saw it as a game - could Conan stop them in time?).

The only way I can get these two conflicted impressions to tie is if Vermouth values the boss as a person, but resents his aspirations and even the Organization itself. To put the point in the form of a story, maybe Vermouth was close to the boss before the Organization, but she did not support whatever his desire was that prompted the boss to form it. There was some reason (maybe Vermouth had a one-sided attraction towards the boss, both of them no longer aging, etc.) Vermouth felt she couldn't deny him when he wanted her to join him with his plans, but she never liked his plans to begin with and liked them less over time. The boss meanwhile, never saw how his dream was straining Vermouth internally; the boss is happy to keep using her even though he says she is close no matter how she feels.

 

I feel like this explains why she wants the Organization brought down, yet did not take the opportunity to sabotage it herself, or allow the FBI or the police or whoever else to do it for her. Instead Vermouth supports Conan, for whatever virtues she sees in him to do the job. "If he could reach my heart, maybe he could be our long awaited silver bullet..." I get the feeling like she wants the Organization brought down in a way that gives the boss some closure in the defeat to give up whatever dream/desire he had that prompted the whole thing in the first place. Shinichi would probably try to do it this "right way" (compared to the FBI) which is why Vermouth wants him to be the silver bullet.

 

All of this brings up another point. Why did Vermouth get irate with Itakura? If Itakura is part of the project she hates, then it seems she would oppose his program, or sabotage him. Maybe she was trying to do that by getting angry at him on the movie sets. Still though, why was Vermouth the one who contacted him later? Boss's orders (Tequila did get involved afterwards which supports this), or was there something personal for her there?

[PetePete]

Chek does bring up a good point, and with the whole Eri being the boss situation isn't really valid to me, has any of the other detective boy besides Conan meet Eri or introduced themselves to her? Ai and Eri HAS appeared near each other in anime episodes but those were TV only episodes, they also appeared in movies near each other. Being that tv only episodes and movies aren't canon you can say that this thought is invalid.

[Quol]

@Chek (too long to quote)

(v34/c011/p18) Vermouth stated that "No angel has smiled upon me...not even once." This means that she doesnt think of her boss as an angel and never has thought of him as one. That means that Vermouth was never close to the boss before the organization otherwise she would have omitted the last part "..not even once." (Not exactly sure what she thinks of Yukiko, i would certainly view her as an angel. )

 

During the New York arc it was also said that her daughter was caught up with some bad people. My guess would be that the daughter originally joined the BO and when they were going to kill her Vermouth tried to stop them only to be fed the pill and de-aged. The boss, taking an interest in Vermouth threatened her with her daughter. Therefore Vermouth cant do anything directly to rebel and doesnt want to try any risks, so she does her best to stay in the BO and not die. (Act like a horrible person but is acually nice.)

 

The thing that i dont understand is why Vermouth only wants 1 silver bullet. If she wants for the organization to fall the more the merrier. While if she wants the organization to stand then having 0 would be best. 

[Chekhov MacGuffin]

@Chek (too long to quote)

(v34/c011/p18) Vermouth stated that "No angel has smiled upon me...not even once." This means that she doesnt think of her boss as an angel and never has thought of him as one. That means that Vermouth was never close to the boss before the organization otherwise she would have omitted the last part "..not even once." (Not exactly sure what she thinks of Yukiko, i would certainly view her as an angel. )

 

During the New York arc it was also said that her daughter was caught up with some bad people. My guess would be that the daughter originally joined the BO and when they were going to kill her Vermouth tried to stop them only to be fed the pill and de-aged. The boss, taking an interest in Vermouth threatened her with her daughter. Therefore Vermouth cant do anything directly to rebel and doesnt want to try any risks, so she does her best to stay in the BO and not die. (Act like a horrible person but is acually nice.)

 

The thing that i dont understand is why Vermouth only wants 1 silver bullet. If she wants for the organization to fall the more the merrier. While if she wants the organization to stand then having 0 would be best. 

I think you are taking the angel thing a bit too far. It's risky to assume it means that one thing. It could mean heaven has never cut her a break, her life has been misfortunate.

 

I don't think the daughter even exists. Chris was a fabrication from the start according to fingerprint data and Akai's, Jodie's, and Conan's deductions. Vermouth told that falling-out story to Yukiko to explain why Chris doesn't appear with Sharon - they can't.

 

The last point you bring up is one of the reasons why I think your hostage explanation doesn't make sense. If Vermouth was held hostage, she would be angry at the boss and everyone in the Org, and could use her talent to give hints to the FBI and police and severely damage the Organization. It's not like the boss is omniscient; with the right kind of plan, Vermouth could keep these plots from being traced back to her. I don't think the boss would ever trust someone held hostage with as much trust and leeway to do things on her own as he gives Vermouth. That would not be prudent.

The fact Vermouth wants the Organization to end, but doesn't seem to support the FBI or CIA doing the job, and isn't using her full strength to undermine it herself suggests she is held hostage by her own conscience. There is someone (like the boss or her close Org friends) she feels she can't betray even though she feels the right choice is to end the Organization. She heaps her plans and hopes on Conan because he has some virtue she thinks will guide him to end the Organization the way she wants it done.

[moroboshi dai]

so its confirmed the boss appeared in person andhis/her full name too hmm

[ALAKTORN]

so its confirmed the boss appeared in person andhis/her full name too hmm

No it’s not… where did you hear that?

[Chekhov MacGuffin]

No it’s not… where did you hear that?

Probably twisting news of the recent interview. Gosho explicitly said the boss appeared, but it's still up in the air if the boss has appeared in person, or just as a name because Gosho was vague again. Gosho wouldn't answer if the boss's face appeared.

Sources 1,6,7, report Gosho said the boss has appeared in some form a "long time ago", but Gosho may have implied the boss could have appeared "recently". Contrast with Source 5 who does not report the part of the answer that the boss has appeared recently.

Q: Has the boss appeared?

A: He has. Long ago, recently, I wonder when?/I wonder if he appeared long ago or recently (laughs))

The different sources extracted different meanings from this statement. One of the sources (which one?) thought Gosho was taunting, so the phrase may be misunderstood. Source 5 notes Gosho was being vague about what form the boss appeared in. (Current manga chapter is 883)

It is mentioned again the boss is not Agasa. (Source 1,6,7)

Gosho declined to answer a question if the boss's face has appeared (Source 1,7)

Source 1

Q: Has the boss appeared?

A: He has. Long ago, recently, I wonder when? (laughs)

It’s not professor Agasa.

Source 5

The last boss (tn: BO boss) has already appeared (if the face appeared or only the name is unknown). Comment by the Twitter girl: Vague(⌒▽⌒)

Source 6

あの方はだいぶ前に出た。最近も出た。

↑

(マジかwwwwww)

Gōshō: That person has appeared a long time ago. He also appeared recently.

blogger’s comment: ↑ (are you for real?! lol)

(tn: I don’t know why but I get the feeling this was some bullshit the blogger threw in himself…)

Source 7

The boss has appeared in the manga. It’s not professor Agasa. Gōshō won’t say whether his face has appeared or not. He appeared a long time ago. He also appeared recently.

[moroboshi dai]

got that on another forum 

 

link posted there

 

http://headlines.yahoo.co.jp/hl?a=20140107-00000005-jct-ent

[Chekhov MacGuffin]

got that on another forum 

 

link posted there

 

http://headlines.yahoo.co.jp/hl?a=20140107-00000005-jct-ent

It's about the same Gosho interview I mentioned above. I am not sure your article says anything differently from what has already been said about the interview here on the forum: the boss has appeared in some form, but there no guarantee about him appearing in person with a face. I would trust our interview information because we translated transcripts from people who were actually there.

The boss's full name has appeared information is old news, but again, there was never and still is no guarantee that there is a matching face we have seen to attach to the name.

[Black Demon]

got that on another forum 

 

link posted there

 

http://headlines.yahoo.co.jp/hl?a=20140107-00000005-jct-ent

 

It's basically the same as in other news articles out there. In the ボスの顔出しには「それはちょっと秘密で」section, it explained that when a fan asked whether the boss' face has already been shown, Gosho said that was a secret. (My Japanese is really poor but I think I can at least understand that part.)

 

さらに、「ボスが登場しているっていうのは顔もですか」という質問には「どうだろうねえ。それはちょっと秘密で。お楽しみに。やべーな」と笑みをこぼしながら、はぐらかしたようだ。

[ThatLee4]

Imagine if the boss was Vodka.

Him acting dopey so no one would suspect it is him. But him being undercover seening what his people do.

[Modern Holmes]

Imagine if the boss was Vodka.

Him acting dopey so no one would suspect it is him. But him being undercover seening what his people do.

Would Gin dare to point a gun at him? Would he be careless enough to leave fingerprints in Itakura's case?

[ThatLee4]

Would Gin dare to point a gun at him? Would he be careless enough to leave fingerprints in Itakura's case?

I was joking.

But in my joke he is undercover as a dufus and makes people think he is incompetent. So that know one would suspect him.

I just find it funny that Vodka is never suggested as a the Boss like almost everyone else is. But he just seems like a useless character with no unique skill.

[Chekhov MacGuffin]

I was joking.

But in my joke he is undercover as a dufus and makes people think he is incompetent. So that know one would suspect him.

I just find it funny that Vodka is never suggested as a the Boss like almost everyone else is. But he just seems like a useless character with no unique skill.

You might like this thread: http://www.detectiveconanworld.com/forum/topic/2532-vodkalamest-of-the-black/?p=199009