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Everything posted by Chekhov MacGuffin
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Re earlier comment: I'm a supporter of the scar Akai is Bourbon theory. I don't think Akai Shuuichi is Bourbon.
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I've seen the special manga, including the "Generic" chapter, in Chinese. You aren't missing anything especially worthwhile. If you want to know the plot, someone injected one of the class guinea pigs with something. Based on what happened, Haibara thinks a member of the Black Org must have done it. At the end of the school day, Haibara finds a note in her shoe locker from this Org member. I presume the note is threatening all the children in Teitan Elementary. She is upset, Conan comforts her, and he decides to review the security camera footage of the lockers. Small footprints and the fact that no one tall shows up on camera cause Conan to realize the culprit is a kid and thus the Org member is an APTX victim. Haibara tells Conan there was a guy who worked with her in one of her labs and he might be the culprit. Despite knowing a Black Org member is out to get her, Haibara goes to school the next day, and gets so nervous that she falls ill and goes to the nurse's office. Conan goes looking for and, surprise, she isn't there. Conan searches for Haibara, but she isn't anywhere to be found and, for some reason I can't figure out, Conan decides to not look for her, assumes she is OK, and decides to catch the chibi Black Org guy instead. Conan heads to Teitan Elementary at night and sees someone pull in the schoolyard with a large van. Conan then catches a miniature emo child burying gas canisters in the school yard. Haibara appears out of nowhere randomly, confronts the Black Org member, and reveals his codename is Generic. Haibara and Generic have a chat about the past, his motives, and why the heck he decided to take APTX and become small and such. During this conversation Generic gets upset to the point of crying and reveals the gas canisters contain memory erasing compound. Generic then decides he wants to gas Haibara and Conan and pulls a spare canister from his sleeve. The day is saved when Genta jumps out of hiding and slingshots the canister out of Generic's hand. It turns out the detective boys were lurking around and overheard the long discussion about the Black Org and Sherry's history with Generic! Oops. Anyway, the canister falls to the ground and douses Generic with his own gas which knocks him out. He then forgets his entire past with the Org, is adopted by a random family, and can now live a happy, fulfilling childhood that doesn't involve freaky science experiments and a depressing dresscode. And no one explains who drove the bloody van into the schoolyard. The end.
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Vermouth's silver haired serial killer disguise in New York.
Chekhov MacGuffin replied to silverbullet28's topic in General
It was to lure out the FBI Agent... Akai Shuuichi. ;-) ...And kill him, if that wasn't clear enough. Akai got the better of her which is why the assassination didn't work out the way she planned. There are more details in the wiki section on Vermouth. -
He's been living next door to Agasa's for a while now. As himself, whenever Bourbon finally gets a move on but Aoyama has been dragging this arc out for a while so who knows?
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I appreciate the collection! I will find homes for them when I am not being drowned by wicked deadlines.
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The main problem with this is explaining why a CIA agent would appear in public disguised as Akai which would compromise Kir and possibly get her killed. Her role in the Black Organization is a valuable; someone simply trying to lure someone else out is a less important position than a successfully planted spy. It doesn't make sense. Furthermore scar Akai appears with FBI officers and around civilians despite knowing he might get attacked by the Black Org thus putting the civilians and the FBI agents at risk.
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The revelation Vermouth was Sharon occurred during the confrontation with Vermouth. Vermouth never confirmed Jodie's accusation, but she certainly didn't deny it. Conan and Akai also came to the same conclusion that Vermouth is Sharon as well. For an explanation about how Jodie, Akai, and Conan came to their conclusions, please see the below links.Jodie's discovery Chris Vineyard, Sharon Vineyard and Vermouth are the same person Conan's discovery Chris Vineyard, Sharon Vineyard and Vermouth are the same person
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They're all good. The last two (kidnapping Conan and getting threatened by Conan) would be great for the timeline.
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We need pictures for Vermouth and Vermouth timeline. I would lift some from the German Wiki but that would make CarpetCrawler sad, and when CarpetCrawler is sad, everyone is sad.
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Conan doesn't want Okiya to learn much about Shinichi - because Conan is paranoid even around allies.
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He doesn't have to know. He just has to get a pair of glasses that look similar to the ones the vic had. The police are unlikely to check the glasses prescription to see if they actually are the vic's glasses. Also the poison was on the vic's real glasses. The one's Taninaka swapped in after Saizu died and are in police custody are fake. Taninaka was definitely able to switch them out if he wanted. The glasses were a little ways from the body. Taninaka knelt down next to the body despite what Conan yelled. You can see from the art he knelt down so his body was between where the glasses were and Conan's line of sight. He could have swapped them out behind his back.
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I'm now thinking the glasses (rather than the handkerchief) were what was poisoned and the barber switched them with the ones he prepared in advance when he approached the body. Saizu had to hold the glasses with his other hand to clean the lenses. When you get your hair cut, glasses must be taken off which gives the barber the perfect opportunity to apply poison. The barber has a pair of glasses in a glasses case when searched; these are likely the victim's pair. Additionally, the barber held back Conan from entering to prevent him, Kogoro, and the police inside from noticing his glasses fogged up and needed cleaning. I will work on a more complete exposition later to make sure poisoning the glasses would result in the poison getting on the correct hand and cause poison stains in the right places. I also need to elaborate on how the barber would plan to make Saizu take the chopsticks with the proper hand after sitting in the right seat.
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Obligatory theory trioHow Akai faked his death Okiya is Akai Scar Akai is Bourbon The BO might snipe at their own member if Bourbon failed to tell Gin what he was up to, which is possible because Gin said he had no idea what Bourbon was up to and didn't care for him much. Haibara did actually have a bad reaction because of Akai's presence. Twice in fact.
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The Miyanos would have started research too late to have caused Vermouth's problem. Atsushi Miyano moved out of the house from the tape case (423-425) thirty years ago to go somewhere for his research. That's too young. Instead, I think something else stopped Vermouth's aging and the Org had the Miyanos research Vermouth to try to replicate what caused her to stop aging. Unfortunately this didn't produce a cure and frankly she has gotten tired of being forced to stand still in life and hide when everyone else moves on. (She's probably also tired of getting stabbed by two generations of Miyanos for samples.) You are correct in saying that it was only after Sharon switched did Jodie uncover that she was the one who killed her father. However, I think there was reason to think that Sharon was an FBI target before her death. Why was Jodie at Sharon's funeral in the first place after all? My thoughts are that very late into the twenty years, the FBI began to look into Sharon Vineyard as a member of the Org, but not knowing she was the person who killed Jodie's dad. Akai Shuuichi had infiltrated the Org five years ago and was rejected two years before the current timeline. The info that tipped the FBI off that Sharon was someone to be interested in may have come from him. Sharon noticed the FBI moving around her and switched. After this, Jodie heard Chris at the funeral say "A secret makes a woman, woman". She realized after the switch that Chris was the person who killed her father, but was too young, etc. I am kind of confused about what you are trying to say here. I think you are saying Kir could have falsified her resume in order to get herself into showbiz, but I'm not sure what point you are trying to make about the BO.I am pretty sure that the BO could falsify a resume if they wanted. I am not saying Sharon just starred out of nowhere with no prior acting experience. What I am saying is the BO wanted her to become an actress, so she started an acting career, and because of her natural talent and the BO's power helping in the background, she got good positions and quickly worked her way up into a position where she could take lead roles. Remember, Vermouth is one of the most capable BO members out there. Soon after meeting Conan and Haibara, she found a target, Dr. Araide, to swap with close to them, staked him out, learned his habits and background, switched with him, and began doing his fulltime job. While she has a full time job running the clinic and being the Teitan nurse, at the same time she starts looking for the FBI who came after her. She steals and returns Kogoro's records to lure out the FBI and stakes them out to find where they live, how many there are, and how to contact them (42-9, 11). Then she goes online, tracks down a suitable target she can blackmail into committing a murder, gets all sort of background info on a random guy, all while executing her plan to capture Haibara, keeping abreast of the FBI's movements, and working a full time doctor's job. And most likely Vermouth did most of this work by herself. If she has the ability to work this hard to get Haibara, then she could have worked hard to be an actress. Or she could have been saying ironic things. Or maybe she was referring to her job when she was still in the Sharon's mother before her anti aging accident? So here is an example version of a timeline for Vermouth where I have tried to keep Vermouth's age real age to a minimum. There is more flexibility if Vermouth is actually older. •Vermouth is ~25-30 (55-60 years before the current timeline) - Something halts Vermouth's aging. You could call this the project start date even though it may have been going on before and Vermouth may not know she was not aging yet. The reason is that if Vermouth was exposed to something that halts aging, someone around her responsible for getting her exposed is likely to be working on a project with the intent of lengthening lifespan or something like that. •Vermouth is ~30-35 (50-55 years before the current timeline) Vermouth realizes she is not aging and she now knows she is going to need a false identity to become or else people around her are going to start to notice. Creating a false child identity isn't as hard as it sounds back then because there were no electronic records that are easy to check on and with bribery, fake papers, and whatnot, it's possible to create a proper paper trail especially if she has the Black Org's help (or what will become the Black Org). Vermouth could pretend her child was adopted or something like that at an older age so she could switch in sooner. You could also assume this was the project start date as well. In the ~20 year interim between her current state she could become Sharon, she could work on disguise and acting, skills necessary for being an actress and for creating the appearance of a daughter if necessary. •Vermouth is ~50-55 (30-35 years before the current timeline) Vermouth now has the ability to swap into her Sharon role who aged to approximately just graduated from high school age. She rises to stardom and kills off Sharon's mom when she debuts in a movie and takes up Sharon's role in full. She starts working on backdating the Chris identity I assume by faking a pregnancy or something like that. The Miyanos start their research 30 years prior to the current timeline. Vermouth kills Jodie's father 20 years prior to the current timeline. ~20 years ago Sharon learns disguise from Kuroba Toichi (Yukiko learned disguise back when she was a beginning actress. She started her career while in high-school. Yukiko is 37) •Vermouth is ~70-75 (~10 years before the current timeline) Chris has become old enough to disguise as because role has aged to approximately just graduated from high school age. She begins to work on Chris's stardom, but keeps Chris's private life a secret •Vermouth is ~80-85 (<1 years before the current timeline) Vermouth kills off Sharon and takes up Chris full time. The thing is Yukiko did not "assure her words" as you said. Yukiko said "You once told me you taught Chris disguising techniques because she begged for them." Sharon replies "I haven't seen her for almost ten years... All I know is she is hanging out with a bad crowd. Anyway lets go park the car and get to the dressing room already. Besides those patrons are starting to notice that there is no camera running...." Basically Sharon switched the subject so there was no chance for Yukiko to affirm the ten years thing.Let me point out I'm not disagreeing with the original point that Sharon worked on creating Chris over 10 years ago, only pointing out you can't rely on what Yukiko says because she heard it through Sharon. Sorry for the long post and if it has grammar mistakes. It took a long time to finish and I just wanted to get it over with.
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@EdiblePencil: The Gin page needs lots of attention. So does Eisuke for that matter.
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This is a pretty interesting case. The vic talked about suicide, but unless he really, really, really wanted revenge against the ramen shop, there was no reason for him to commit suicide to run it into the ground. It also helps that we have three suspects making it less likely its a "how-dunnit". I wonder if he was planning to fake being poisoned/ use less than lethal drugs (like an emetic) to drive the shop under in order to acquire it because his own business wasn't powerful enough through finance. Maybe he cooperated with the real culprit who backstabbed him by using real poison? I am looking forward to hearing about where the poison was found. The ramen shop people didn't seem to know that Saizu Tokumori was coming which limits their ability to prepare something ahead of time. It would also be surprising that they had poison on them ready to go. (Unless they were waiting for the guy to show up one day.) I suspect Saizu knew something about the dead regular because he went straight to that spot and knocked over the flower cup. Saizu might have also been involved with the guy's death. In general, I don't think the poison was put on the chopsticks on the far right even though no one should sit there. That's because someone sitting in the second seat from the right might reach for them, even over the flower vase. This creates the possibility of poisoning an unintended target. There were no chopsticks in the bucket in front of Conan's seat so the option was to go for the far left ones or the far right ones. Conan went for the far right. Of the suspects: Ogura Katsumasa could have put the poison in the ramen. I am going to rule that out because that would be too straightforward to make a case. He was behind the counter most of the time, so he didn't have many opportunities unless he was going to toss pellets of poison. Poisoning someone in his own shop would be bad for business and he seems to have the will to want to keep the shop alive, even if he hated Saizu. It would be better for him to call Saizu out somewhere to talk about selling the shop and then poison him there. Oohashi Sayo could have put the poison on the bottom of the glass she slammed down, poisoning the puddle and anticipating it would soak through the handkerchief and get on the Saizu's fingers making it look like a suicide. She could have put it in Saizu's waterglass as well, but again too straightforward. Taninaka Atsushi, the barber, has the best tricky strategies and most likely the advantage of knowing Saizu would go the ramen shop after getting his hair cut. He prevented Conan from having chopsticks passed from Saizu, which could indicate he's trying to stop Conan from being poisoned. (It reminds me of the poisoning case right before Golden apple case.) He could have pickpocketed Saizu's handkerchief or smeared poison on his clothing in a specific spot while cutting the guy's hair, meaning the vic walked in with the poison on him. Also poisoning Saizu in the ramen shop might put it out of business and allow him to acquire the land to expand the barber shop's footprint.
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The mom showed up to talk with Asami through a door in Mitsuhiko's disappearance case. We didn't get to see her though.
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I think we both seem to be agreeing that some points from the movies are probably canon. I can agree with that. It's just figuring out which ones are and which ones aren't. My position is to assume the manga trumps all, and Kaito Kid in the manga doesn't seem to know Conan's identity.
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What will happen to Kogoro when Conan turns back into Shinichi?
Chekhov MacGuffin replied to Marianne's topic in General
He will know Conan is Shinichi by the end. As one of the three main characters, it makes sense that he will get caught up in the BO plot in the "final problem". He'll figure out Shinichi was making deductions for him. I don't think he will simply go back to business as normal when Shinichi permanently reverts. He could go back into the detective business entirely for infidelity and stalker investigations which he does seem to do well, return to the force, retire (but somehow I doubt funds will let him do that), or get back with Eri and mooch off of her moolah (I think he has too much pride for that). -
I'll ask Abs., but you can tell by the lack of effects the movies have on the manga. It is like the movies never happened. Take the Raven chaser. Tokyo met and the government would be hot on the Black Org's arse after what they did to the Tokyo tower. You can't fly a military helicopter into the middle of Tokyo and not have it noticed and not have someone try to figure out where and how they got it. If it were canon, the entire police department would be all over it as their officers were attacked. I'm sure the investigation would have been mentioned. It's totally off Black Org MO anyway as they usually shoot for subtlety. Another example is the 6th movie. Sentient computers. Virtual reality pods. Need I say more? Some things from the movies do trickle down to the manga and I would believe that Gosho intended things like Hattori's first meeting with Kazuha to be canon, but my opinion is that it is better to assume they are unconfirmed until explicitly mentioned in the manga.
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I doubt it is as simple as (current age - 10 years), but we would have to see the effects on someone older to be sure.