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SamKel.

Who does Shinichi need more, Ran or Shiho?

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Personally I believe that Shiho is someone that Shinichi can't afford to lose. She is the only person who he can really benefit from in both his social life and also his career as a detective. I feel like if things ever get tough and seriously dangerous, Ran wouldn't be of much help. Shiho on the other hand can handle herself and wont hold him back as oppose to Ran. I believe that after the end of the series, Shinichi would develop as a person and a detective if Shiho was still in the picture.

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Okay, what you wrote sounds unreasonably biased towards Shiho/Haibara.

Yes, I agree that Shiho has more character to her than Ran does. Frankly, I'm not a huge fan of Ran either, but that still doesn't make Ran completely useless.

 

 

Personally I believe that Shiho is someone that Shinichi can't afford to lose. 

I wholeheartedly agree with this. Shiho is needed to create the antidote, and she's Shinichi's main, if not only, connection to the BO at the moment (discounting Akai, Kir, and Bourbon because I doubt that they're going to aid in finding the antidote).

 

 

She is the only person who he can really benefit from in both his social life and also his career as a detective. I feel like if things ever get tough and seriously dangerous, Ran wouldn't be of much help. Shiho on the other hand can handle herself and wont hold him back as oppose to Ran. I believe that after the end of the series, Shinichi would develop as a person and a detective if Shiho was still in the picture.

This is where my problem lies with your reasoning.

 

1. I'm not sure how saying that Shiho is the "only" person who can benefit from his social life and career as a detective even relates. Well, it's still wrong. She's definitely not the "only" person. If you were paying attention to the copious amount of childhood backstories thrown at our faces, you would have noticed that both Shinichi and Ran grew and developed a fair amount during their childhood friend stages.

 

2. Ahahaha, I got a good laugh from this because it's most certainly the other way around. If things ever got dangerous, Ran would be better off with Shinichi during these situations, not Shiho. I'm not sure what reasoning you went through when you said that Shiho would have been able to handle herself better. Yeah, I guess she could win through a battle of wits, but it's as if you completely ignored the fact that Ran has an exorbitant amount of skill as a martial artist--which Gosho seemed to want to clobber into our heads as we progressed through the series.

 

3. Haha, you say this as if Shinichi is going to completely abandon Shiho after she finds the antidote for him. Good news for ShinShi supporters, because it isn't going to happen. Shinichi isn't the kind of person to throw people "out of the picture" after he wrings them out of their usefulness--the italics is an extreme statement, but this is what I felt you were implying. Whatever Gosho has planned for the series is unbeknownst to us. However, it's still likely that Shiho and Shinichi will remain as good friends, especially with everything they've gone through together (see ConAi moments).

 

 

Sorry for being rough about this.

I don't like Ran either, but it's really not necessary to treat her existence like a doormat. It's not like she doesn't have any merit at all, lol.

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I guess I should have been more clear about what I meant. I meant if It ever came down to having to pick one of them. Ran or Shiho. I don't believe that Ran is useless and she definitely has her strengths but I do think that when things get dangerous Shiho would be more of help for

1. I can only believe that in Shinichi's career cases are only going to get harder and we all know when things get heated Ran is always thinking about him, praying that he would save her. Ran can handle herself against a purse snatcher but as Shinichi develops as a detective I think there will be a lot less of those.

2. Shinichi and Shiho's relationship is one of hatred and love. Guilt and trust. If things ever go wrong she never waits for him to save her, she can handle her self like she proved time and time again and that is why Shinichi chose her as his partner. He can trust that she will make the right decisions. Unlike Ran he doesn't have to keep her by his side the whole time so that she wont get hurt.

3. As we all know Shiho is very skilled with a gun. And being brought up by the Organization you can assume that she herself is also quite skilled at fighting but I guess we don't know for sure.

Also I don't believe that Shinichi would ever just let her go but I don't see why she would stick around. If she was the one that decided to leave then he has to make a decision Ran or Shiho.

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1. I can only believe that in Shinichi's career cases are only going to get harder and we all know when things get heated Ran is always thinking about him, praying that he would save her. Ran can handle herself against a purse snatcher but as Shinichi develops as a detective I think there will be a lot less of those.

I'm not exactly sure what you mean... Purse-snatching and detective development? I don't really see a connection there.

 

2. Shinichi and Shiho's relationship is one of hatred and love. Guilt and trust. If things ever go wrong she never waits for him to save her, she can handle her self like she proved time and time again and that is why Shinichi chose her as his partner. He can trust that she will make the right decisions. Unlike Ran he doesn't have to keep her by his side the whole time so that she wont get hurt.

Shinichi didn't "choose" her. She was there, in danger from the BO. The reason they work together is because of common interests. It may have developed more over time, but in no way did Shinichi choose her as his partner. As for Ran, that's just the viewer's point of view. It's Gosho overusing the damsel-in-distress scenes with Ran, but Shinichi doesn't exactly feel obliged to be with her the entire time. Even if you think that way, couldn't the same be said for Haibara? There are many examples in which Conan put Haibara's safety as a top priority.

 

3. As we all know Shiho is very skilled with a gun. And being brought up by the Organization you can assume that she herself is also quite skilled at fighting but I guess we don't know for sure.

Skilled with a gun, maybe, but I don't recall her actually having a gun for the majority of the time. Haibara was brought up as a biochemist, so practically no training was needed. There's not much she can do in a 7 year old body, either.

==

Anyway, I agree that Shiho's more important. Ran may cause some severe psychological trauma if she dies (plus tons of criticism towards Gosho), but Shiho's more important in the completion of the plot.

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If I recall in the 11th movie he refers to her as his partner before she responds with something like You're a smooth talker'.

They do look out for each others safety but I just don't feel like Haibara really shadows him the way Ran does.

Haiabara fired a gun once on her first appearance so I'd assume she's pretty good.

I would hate to see Ran die though I think we deserve a more exciting crazy end haha

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If I recall in the 11th movie he refers to her as his partner before she responds with something like You're a smooth talker'.

They do look out for each others safety but I just don't feel like Haibara really shadows him the way Ran does.

Haiabara fired a gun once on her first appearance so I'd assume she's pretty good.

I would hate to see Ran die though I think we deserve a more exciting crazy end haha

I haven't seen that movie yet, so I wouldn't know. And it's not canon *shrugs*

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I think it's Ran because every time Ran's in danger Shinichi always felt uneasy and he can't calm himself. Ran plays a great role in Shinichi's life especially in his heart. It's the moral support that matters. Well, as for Shiho, she can be a great help to Shinichi BUT it doesn't mean that She is needed. Shinichi can survive without Shiho I guess, more than surviving without Ran which I think he couldn't do.  :)  :)  :)

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It depends by what you mean by need. If it is for his career as a detective, definitely Ai. I can't see Shinichi as a detective if he ends up with Ran.

Say, he needs to go on somewhere far for a case. Ran will worry her guts out and thus reducing the time Shinichi could've used for deducting by phone calls and dealing with her wrath (and worry). Even in a local job, things can get pretty heated up. In the worst case, Shinichi would abandon his detective job to not worry Ran too much and supress his curiosity and talent.

In Ai's case though, I couldn't see her fussing over Shinichi. If any, she'll be helping him. Like Holmes to Watson. Or Irene to Holmes. They don't necessarily have to be married, but I guess getting together will be make some things easier to deal with (like, fangirls, shippers and Ran) and will make things much more interesting.

I welcome any counter arguments

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Right now probably Ran cause he loves her. If we talk in terms of just usefulness (and take out the 'creator of the APTX antidote' factor), even then I think it would be Ran. There's no real way Haibara can help him in cases, sure she is skilled at shooting but so is Shinichi, she has a somewhat of a detective side to her but I don't think Conan really needs her help to solve cases. On the other hand, Shinichi can really use Ran's Karate to take down the goons, and as far as she follows his plan everything should be fine. 
Your point of character development is a pretty good one really. Haibara and Conan can really inspire each other and help each other to grow as people, whereas the only thing Ran has given Kudo throughout their childhood is to cling to him and give him a reason to blush. A relationship with Haibara would really be more realistic & better for Kudo and than a boring 'happily live ever after' relationship with Ran.

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 A relationship with Haibara would really be more realistic & better for Kudo and than a boring 'happily live ever after' relationship with Ran.

Detective Conan isn't really a realistic series in many aspects, not just that. And I disagree completely that "happily ever after" is boring.

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Detective Conan isn't really a realistic series in many aspects, not just that. And I disagree completely that "happily ever after" is boring.

Bad argument. Just because some of the big things are unrealistic doesn't mean that everything should be. Would it make sense it if Shinichi suddenly learned how to fly and when fans ask why, Gosho would just go "Hey ! The series is already unrealistic hardyharhar !"

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Bad argument. Just because some of the big things are unrealistic doesn't mean that everything should be. Would it make sense it if Shinichi suddenly learned how to fly and when fans ask why, Gosho would just go "Hey ! The series is already unrealistic hardyharhar !"

I agree that not everything should be unrealstic, but I can speak only for myself, and I think that specific kind of "non realistic" is a good thing. I mean, being forever faithful to the first love since childhood. I wish there was more of that in real life.

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Would it make sense it if Shinichi suddenly learned how to fly

no worries

he'll just say that he learned it in Hawaii

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As much as I love Shiho, considering what Shinichi may think, I think he'd have a really really hard time if Ran leaves him. Shiho mainly helps him in destroying BO and turning himself back, if Shiho's gone, he still got many allies, just that it'd be hard for him to return to Shinichi (but if BO's brought to light, APTX can be studied by other scientists too).

 

Ran just plays a too much important role in Shinichi's life.

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I think in the end If possible, Conan and haibara with high returned the original draft . Black and organizations can break down. Two people, so they set up a home office investigator kudo. Shiho moved with Shinichi. Shinichi and Shiho a companion to help investigate the case. (And gradually developed into a lover instead). 

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I think what Shinichi needs right now is Shiho. She has some lead to BO after all, no matter how little information it is. And the one who knows the best about APTX is of course the one who makes it, Shiho. Without her, it wouldn't be easy to track BO down, Conan can't appear as Shinichi in front of Ran. So without Shiho, it'd be hard for Shinichi to be with Ran. Well, Shinichi can just be in Conan body, and then after the matter with BO has finishied, he can explain it to Ran. But,I think no matter who Shinichi needs right now, he will end up with Ran, since he loves her so much. I ship Shinichi×Shiho though XD.

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I think it's important to consider that Shinichi and Ran, at the core, share similar ideas about life and death. When you love someone, it's important that they at least share the same core principles you're passionate about and I feel that this aspect of the two characters is why they love each other. I posted this a while ago at a different location (it was a video of the scene where Ran saves Haibara from getting shot), but I think it's applicable here.

"This is why I really don't get why there are fans that hate Ran, yet love Haibara. I love both characters; even if you ship one with Shinichi and not the other, that's no reason to completely dispose of the other's good traits. Ran has incredibly powerful sense of justice and appreciation for human life, so much so that she's willing to put her life on the line for it . This is something that's reflected in Shinichi's personality as well, and I feel like it's definitely one of the reasons he admires her so much. Although Haibara's character is also very strong and very well-developed, she tends to be a bit more focused on the safety of her and her loved ones and values their lives much more than the lives of other people, meaning that she might be more inclined to let someone she didn't know as well die to ensure the safety of her loved ones. Now, this isn't necessarily a bad thing; after all, you can't always get so wrapped up in the lives of other people because you don't always have the power to protect them and it would end up putting a lot more additional stress on you. Not to mention, perhaps saving a murderer would end up allowing them to kill more people and cause more life to be lost; in that particular circumstance, Haibara's philosophy might be best. In any case, what I mean to say is that Shinichi's perspective on life is just different than Haibara's, which I feel is why Shinichi likes Ran the way he does; considering he's so passionate about his outlook on the value of life, it makes sense that he'd love someone that shares his perspective.

Ran pretty much has to support her alcoholic, deadbeat father while also tending to Conan. Obviously, we know that Conan can handle himself, but it's not like she knows that; anytime he runs off, she always feels the sense of responsibility to find him because he might be in harm's way and she still has to do stuff like tend to him when he's sick and cook meals for him. All the while, she's attending high-school and knows that her best friend since child-hood that she's in love with is gone and has been gone for quite a while and could be potentially in danger. What's more, he really never tells her what's going on, so I could imagine her sense of trust feels heavily crippled, but she's still so loyal to him. Yet, despite all this, she doesn't complain that she has all these responsibilities to deal with and simply continues to try her best to fulfill these responsibilities because she knows they need her.

In addition, I notice a lot of fans that hate Ran make the argument that Ran cries about Shinichi way too much, but... honestly, while a lot of the intros/outros seem to give this impression, the actual time spent "missing Shinichi" on average each episode is typically minimal or non-existent. Even when something extremely major happens, like the Desperate Revival arc's ending, she still finds a way to bounce back and try to hide what she's feeling by suggesting for her and Conan to get dessert together to make the best of the situation."

So, in terms of who he needs emotionally, I feel like it would be Ran. Despite the fact that she's obviously very upset by his absence, it's not like she doesn't support his interests and way of life; in fact, despite having not seen Shinichi in so long and despite the fact that even Shinichi was trying to avoid the urge to get involved in the case during the Desperate Revival arc, she encourages him to go. They might not be carbon copies of one another, but she still appreciates and supports his passions and interests. They work well off of one another and make up for each other's weaknesses.

This isn't to say that he doesn't still need Shiho/Haibara, though; they've become incredibly good friends and Shinichi still needs someone to occasionally oppose him to allow him to more carefully consider his thoughts and actions.... and he needs her for the obvious connection with the Black Organization, but that's already understood.

So... I guess my final answer is that, romantically, he needs someone like Ran, but as a whole, he needs them both. So to pit both characters against one another like that is a little unfair since they both provide different channels of things that Shinichi needs in his life.

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I would like to think of Shiho as Irene Adler to Conan, he admires her and like her but it is more courtly as he won't make advances. While Ran is the one who shared her entire life with him and grew up with Shinichi, not to mention like already said Shinichi is more of the brains while Ran is more of the brawn as Gosho-sama would make the irony about it. Shiho is useful as of the moment but like I already said once she is the one who would get over her crush over Shinichi as she probably fell in love with Conan not Shinichi, therefore when he gets back to normal Shiho will see that she liked Conan not Shinichi and would outgrow these feelings...We will have to wait and see

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I would like to think of Shiho as Irene Adler to Conan, he admires her and like her but it is more courtly as he won't make advances. While Ran is the one who shared her entire life with him and grew up with Shinichi, not to mention like already said Shinichi is more of the brains while Ran is more of the brawn as Gosho-sama would make the irony about it. Shiho is useful as of the moment but like I already said once she is the one who would get over her crush over Shinichi as she probably fell in love with Conan not Shinichi, therefore when he gets back to normal Shiho will see that she liked Conan not Shinichi and would outgrow these feelings...We will have to wait and see

Conan & Shinichi are the same person...his personality won't change when he becomes Shinichi again.

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Conan & Shinichi are the same person...his personality won't change when he becomes Shinichi again.

What I meant is that Shiho fell in love with Shinichi in his Conan form not in his original form, besides he does masquerade his personality as Conan to be childlike. So when he turns back to Shinichi, he is mostly going to act less like a child and more like an adult..

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He doesn't mask his personality when he is with Ai or even the Detective Boys though.

True, but his personality as an adult in a child form differs from an adult in adult's body. Therefore his personality is the same, but implies different attitudes when in child or adult forms.

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