File 793-??? (Private Eye)

[Stopwatch]

Ignore this, there's a better explanation from Chekhov below

[Chekhov MacGuffin]

Why did Conan need to put him to sleep? For once he was right about it being suicide.

Because they were hauling Banba off and Conan needed to ask the determining question?

[Kyuu Nye]

Because they were hauling Banba off and Conan needed to ask the determining question?

Ah that makes sense.

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[Detective Kudo]

Is it me, or are the spoilers coming out earlier?

I figured it was suicide after i realized banba was really drunk. To pull off this off he would need to be sober. he and his bride were relatives. Probably very close relatives to deceive a DNA test(i think the fire may have been more than an accident) I'm thinking his wife used fire in that car, because thats how their parents died. Maybe she felt guilty of something, and felt she should have been killed in that fire as well. At any rate, i'm thinking the DNA on her finger nail tips were to pin banba to the crime to keep him from having anyone else but herself. Although i still question Banba's motive for not hiring Mouri as the detective...Oh yeah almost forgot, an guilty person would not have tried to punch Amuro like Banba did. A guilty person would have just tried to defend himself tooth and nails, because they already feel guilty for what they did, and know's its true.

sorry for being so late, i promise i had this prior to the spoilers.

This was an excellent case in my opinion

[Chekhov MacGuffin]

Thanks Gosho for not showing the shoes close up so that we could see the cake was still in there. That wasn't really an important clue after all....

[Wakarimashita]

Unless he's faking (which doesn't seem to be the case based on his discussion with Kogoro), wouldn't Amuro making a wrong deduction go against what Gin and Kir said about Bourbon ?

[Wakarimashita]

@Chekov :

Chapter 794, page 9, Conan goes 'hm, then how did this person...' when looking at Bamba's back/legs/shoes. Then it was up to the reader to deduce it. Showing the shoes close up would have been a bit too obvious.

[AJ M.]

*sigh* That moment when over-analyzing backfires at us all...

I was considering a suicide at first (that Gosho wanted to put something new to the table to throw us off). Originally, I believed the phone call when Hatsune exited her car is the moment Hatsune discovered she and Banba were twins so as a result, she commited suicide after such an epiphany, but the SFX sound and "explosion" part afterwards threw me off. As for Conan looking at Banba's shoes, it makes sense that he questioned "how did he...?" since he already suspected Banba in the first place. Why would he be surprised that his prime suspect's shoes were missing cake? Conan wouldn't question it; he would rather look for cake contents near the bathroom window (which he never did). So it only makes sense that he was shocked to see that the cake REMAINED on Banba's shoes. Well played Gosho, well played...

[Chekhov MacGuffin]

@Chekov :

Chapter 794, page 9, Conan goes 'hm, then how did this person...' when looking at Bamba's back/legs/shoes. Then it was up to the reader to deduce it. Showing the shoes close up would have been a bit too obvious.

*sigh* That moment when over-analyzing backfires at us all...

I was considering a suicide at first (that Gosho wanted to put something new to the table to throw us off). Originally, I believed the phone call when Hatsune exited her car is the moment Hatsune discovered she and Banba were twins so as a result, she commited suicide after such an epiphany, but the SFX sound and "explosion" part afterwards threw me off. As for Conan looking at Banba's shoes, it makes sense that he questioned "how did he...?" since he already suspected Banba in the first place. Why would he be surprised that his prime suspect's shoes were missing cake? Conan wouldn't question it; he would rather look for cake contents near the bathroom window (which he never did). So it only makes sense that he was shocked to see that the cake REMAINED on Banba's shoes. Well played Gosho, well played...

The way it was presented was far too ambiguous to be useful. That cake could have been gone and Conan could have had the same reaction, or maybe the reaction was to how Banba had no mud or moisture at all on his shoes (because he took a spare set from his suitcase for instance). Conan heard Hatsune tell Banba he's stepping in it earlier, so the reaction at all seems off. The clue could have been clearer without compromising the mystery significantly. Trying to force the reader to rely on interpretation detective's vague description of the evidence rather than the presented evidence itself which is false difficulty.

Having Conan say something like "Still there?" would have removed all the ambiguity without making it too obvious either.

[Wakarimashita]

It was supposed to be ambiguous, otherwise it would have given the solution for the case to the reader almost immediatly. Plus, not only did Bamba go to the toilet (where one would usually clean the traces of food), he was also suspected of going outside to murder his sister through the bathroom window where there was a puddle (plus it had rained earlier). Therefore, there is no reason Conan would be surprised by Bamba's shoes if there had not been any cake left on them.

[Chekhov MacGuffin]

It was supposed to be ambiguous, otherwise it would have given the solution for the case to the reader almost immediatly. Plus, not only did Bamba go to the toilet (where one would usually clean the traces of food), he was also suspected of going outside to murder his sister through the bathroom window where there was a puddle (plus it had rained earlier). Therefore, there is no reason Conan would be surprised by Bamba's shoes if there had not been any cake left on them.

But as I said earlier, the way the clue was stated there are multiple possible interpretations to why Conan might say "Then, how did this person" while looking at the shoes. How did this person dry off his shoes for instance.

I feel like this is poorly written, because if the art doesn't make the state of the clue clear, the detective's description should. There is no reason readers should have to fight to understand the physical characteristics of the clue if it on panel, right in front of the detective who is staring at it. I understand that Gosho did not want to make it exactly clear what Conan is thinking to avoid ramming the deduction down our throats, but he does need to make it clear what about the shoes Conan is reacting to. The mystery should be the mystery, not trying to figure out what the detective really meant.

Out of the English speaking and German speaking fandom, no one came up with the interpretation that the cake was still on the bottom of the shoes. I understand few people solve the mysteries every week, but most people do seem to know what the state of the clues are even if they don't solve the mystery.

[Martell]

Heh. What do you know? I win the poll. Well i still like my first theory but it was too fictional.

Well, glad that it was suicide. If he was culprit it would be very sad story.

[Charala97]

Thanks a lot for the spoilers Chek Gosh, Gosho really made us think a hell lot! And Amuro taking lessons from Mouri? I really have a BAD feeling about this....... he has surely started suspecting Mouri's capabilities.

[Detective Rohit]

So what is the significance of this whole file, except Amuro's entry?

[Chekhov MacGuffin]

So what is the significance of this whole file, except Amuro's entry?

Amuro saw fit to make an excuse to move in right under Conan so that now he can watch the Detective Agency and follow Kogoro/Conan around on cases too.

The ending here builds the plausibility of Amuro being Scarkai/Bourbon even further. As Scarkai, he's seen Conan in action with the Detective Boys once, and seen Sleeping Kogorou in action once. If Sleeping Kogorou went into action in this case as well, there's absolutely no way he wouldn't be suspicious of Conan. So, what does he do? Position himself in a place such that he can essentially monitor all of Conan's moves.

http://forum.dctp.ws/index.php?topic=7317.msg599493#msg599493

[Kyuu Nye]

Amuro saw fit to make an excuse to move in right under Conan so that now he can watch the Detective Agency and follow Kogoro/Conan around on cases too.

I hope haibara meets him soon. Or Sera gets involved. I want some questions resolved!

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[Black Demon]

I wish that by the end of this arc there won't be anything to add to the "Unresolved plots" list. Those we're currently having now is enough.

[Balthazar Manfredie]

I hope haibara meets him soon. Or Sera gets involved. I want some questions resolved!

I think sera will definitely meet Amuro soon, since she seems to come almost every time to the detective agency

As for Ai, well, he would have to go to agasas since she almost never comes to the agency

But how will he meet Okiya

[Detective Kudo]

But as I said earlier, the way the clue was stated there are multiple possible interpretations to why Conan might say "Then, how did this person" while looking at the shoes. How did this person dry off his shoes for instance.

I feel like this is poorly written, because if the art doesn't make the state of the clue clear, the detective's description should. There is no reason readers should have to fight to understand the physical characteristics of the clue if it on panel, right in front of the detective who is staring at it. I understand that Gosho did not want to make it exactly clear what Conan is thinking to avoid ramming the deduction down our throats, but he does need to make it clear what about the shoes Conan is reacting to. The mystery should be the mystery, not trying to figure out what the detective really meant.

Out of the English speaking and German speaking fandom, no one came up with the interpretation that the cake was still on the bottom of the shoes. I understand few people solve the mysteries every week, but most people do seem to know what the state of the clues are even if they don't solve the mystery.

i agree that that clue was very misleading. i thought he was referring to the shoes lacking mud or something at first...

[Charala97]

Amuro saw fit to make an excuse to move in right under Conan so that now he can watch the Detective Agency and follow Kogoro/Conan around on cases too.

I totally agree with this. He will start watching Kogoro and Conan's moves. Let's not forget that by being with them, he will be able to meet Sera and probably even Okiya. His main aim is to find Sherry, so even that aspect will be in his favour. He has taken the right move. Everything is under his nose now.........

[Chekhov MacGuffin]

His main aim is to find Sherry, so even that aspect will be in his favour. He has taken the right move. Everything is under his nose now.........

I think that was a lie told to Kir and a few other members to explain why Bourbon was activated. I think Bourbon's real mission, hinted at by dialogue between Gin and Vermouth, is to find out if Akai is still alive (and thus if Kir is a traitor) and kill him if so. They lied to Kir in case she was a traitor so she wouldn't alert the FBI or Akai to Bourbon's upcoming mission.

A side mission might be to find Sherry, especially since the Black Org thinks Sherry and the FBI are working together (remember the Conan's trackers that the Org thinks Sherry planted, Akai was waiting for them because of one) but I doubt that is Bourbon's investigation purpose, especially since Bourbon is more interested in killing Akai.

[Detective Rohit]

I think that was a lie told to Kir and a few other members to explain why Bourbon was activated. I think Bourbon's real mission, hinted at by dialogue between Gin and Vermouth, is to find out if Akai is still alive (and thus if Kir is a traitor) and kill him if so. They lied to Kir in case she was a traitor so she wouldn't alert the FBI or Akai to Bourbon's upcoming mission.

A side mission might be to find Sherry, especially since the Black Org thinks Sherry and the FBI are working together (remember the Conan's trackers that the Org thinks Sherry planted, Akai was waiting for them because of one) but I doubt that is his Bourbon's investigation purpose, especially since Bourbon is more interested in killing Akai.

Why dosent the organisation kill Kir if they still believe that she's a traitor?

[Balthazar Manfredie]

Why dosent the organisation kill Kir if they still believe that she's a traitor?

needs proof that akai is really alive in order to kill her. Gin thinks hes dead so that's good enough for the boss ( till bourbon tries to prove that he is alive), so she is safe

[Detective Rohit]

needs proof that akai is really alive in order to kill her. Gin thinks hes dead so that's good enough for the boss ( till bourbon tries to prove that he is alive), so she is safe

As far i know, the Organisation kills even if they have a little doubt. And i really doubt that Gin dosent suspect Kir..

[Chekhov MacGuffin]

As far i know, the Organisation kills even if they have a little doubt. And i really doubt that Gin dosent suspect Kir..

They suspect her, but have no concrete grounds for suspicion. The doubt is not enough to kill her for it because she is also a valuable operative who may have actually killed Akai. She is an in between case, even for the very cautious Org; they can't make up their minds on whether to trust her or not. That's why the boss decided to give an Ok on Bourbon's plan to find Akai because he wants to find some way to see who's side Kir is on.