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Why we all love Detective Conan !

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A little topic to tell why we all love Detective Conan (Case Closed) and what is SO great about this series.

Personally, when I first discovered Detective Conan, it was by curiosity. I had finished watching another anime called City Hunter, which is great, and I wanted to find another series which was as thrilling as it. I knew Detective Conan by its reputation, but I thought it was the story of a little boy who outsmarts professional detective. How wrong I was !

I was litteraly captivated by the story and the strong characters of the series. The first investigations were a little too easy, but it became much more interesting and complex quickly.

I love the idea of a detective story where the truth comes from a child's mouth, and the fact that tricks that deceived adults aren't able to fool "the little eyes of justice". Conan is much more than a character, he is a metaphore about guilt and judgement.

In fact, the whole series is a metaphore of the fight between good and evil inside the society and inside each of us. Much of the murderers of the series aren't really bad people, they are much more victims of the merciless society who turns people into vultures and the innocents into killers. Their reasons to kill are understandable and we often feel sympathy toward them. They are just good people who take a wrong turn in life because of this crual world.

In the way this world work, Conan represents the true justice, impartial and sometimes harsh. He has the most difficult role in each murder story because he is the one who can't sympathize with the culprits. He must confront them to their crime, no matter what their reasons are, and sometimes we can see clearly that he doesn't always like to do so, harboring some sympathy towards some criminals even though he can't close his eyes or substitute himself for justice.

And, while most of the culprits don't regret what they did and think their actions by the "an eye for an eye" moto (while forgetting the "makes the whole world blind" part), when they are confronted by the look of a "pure" child, they truly realize what they have just commit and they express some remorse, ashamed to be seen as killers in the eyes of this child.

So, while Conan is a kind of fighter of true justice, I also see him as a kind of angel guardian. While he comes to late to prevent the souls to be dirty, he is still able to make them redeem themselves, even though it might be already too late. He makes them realize that, even though bad things happened to them, they had still what was the most important: their souls. And that they lost it by themselves and can't take it back once lost. Regardless of their reasons, they are just the wrong kind of people.

And I think this is an important part of Shinichi's evolution: it shows him another side of the culprits that the high-school detective couldn't have seen. Maybe that's why he feels some kind of sympathy for some of the culprits: because he starts to understand them, even though he can't forgive them for what they did.

And, at the same time, in his role as a young seeker of the truth, he realizes that the true battle comes from the society itself that corrupt the human mind. But this is a fight no one can win and I think this is one of the most depressing aspects of the series.

But I wonder if the war between Conan and the Black Organization couldn't be some kind of a metaphore of this fight for the society's soul. The Black Organization is pure evilness and the ultimate enemy of Conan. While his reasons to fight them are kinda selfish at first (he wants his real body back), they became more genuine after the death of Akemi Miyano, the moment when Conan decides to destroy the organization even after he has his body back.

And the role of Ran is also important because, as Vermouth say, she is an "angel". As Kaori Makimura in City Hunter, she is some kind of guardian angel who brings love to those who have known and who gives them the determination to accomplish their goals. She is a pure woman, one who is able to touch the hearts of the wrong kind of people and who must absolutely be protected from the evilness of this world. No matter what, Conan cannot afford to lose her, she is the light that guides him and protects him, she is too precious.

And I also find that reminiscent of Ryo Saeba, the City Hunter vigilante who didn’t have a true childhood, a former war orphan, and who discovers true love at the side of that woman who is both a mother and a lover for him (though he won’t admit it). A mother and a love, that’s also pretty much the role Ran also plays toward Shinichi/Conan, waiting for him while he can’t reveal his true feelings for her. Not yet…

So, while it's a very cliché idea, Detective Conan (pretty much like City Hunter) is a story about how love can save a city from it's own decadence. I find the same kind of spirit between these two series, just different, and I think that's why I fell so much in love with Detective Conan. Because, while it’s not a love story, romance is pretty much at the core of the whole dynamic of the series. Conan is indeed a true knight who would put his life at stake to protect what is most important in the world: the love of a woman, a love which is for one but also for all.

I also like pretty much the dynamic between Conan and the culprit. There is something of a mise en scène on both side: the mise en scène of the culprit that Conan must see through (well, it's a little strange, but the random killers in Detective Conan are all criminal masterminds. But, if they weren't, the storylines wouldn't be so thrilling), and Conan's own mise en scène to unmask the culprit and the trick used while protecting his true identity.

Both tricks are based on deception and, in a way, there is a metaphore of the child who sees a magic trick and who tries to see through. And once he does, there is no longer magic at all and the "magician" himself becomes no more than nothing. Especially when Conan acts himself as a magician with his own mise en scène and, so far, only Heiji Hattori has seen through the "trick" of a detective mind inside a child body.

For all those reasons, for me, reading Detective Conan is like watching Peter Pan. There is this magic and this wonderful story of beautiful and genuine feelings which is very reminiscent of childhood (while it's not really a story for children. It's like a universe caught between two ages, like the main character) and, at the same time, the story itself and its themes are universal.

And Shinichi has still to uncover the greatest mystery of all: what is lying deep within the loved woman's heart ? As good a detective as he is, will he still be able to see through Ran's tricks to protect her hidden feelings ?

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i can`t find of a very good reason but i think DC is highly addictive...

and i love it for that...

But, if you like the series, it's at least that you like the concept and the way the author tells his story. That's why you find it addictive, no ? :)

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But, if you like the series, it's at least that you like the concept and the way the author tells his story. That's why you find it addictive, no ? :)

yes... i think that's how i liked it... :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

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In fact, the whole series is a metaphore of the fight between good and evil inside the society and inside each one of us. Much of the murderers of the series aren't really bad people, they are much more victims of the merciless society who turns people into vultures and the innocents into killers. Their reasons to kill are understandable and we often feel sympathy toward them. They are just good people who take a wrong turn in life because of this crual world.

Beautiful! I never particularly looked at DC from a moral point of view, so this is refreshing to read. :) I know that we (particularly in the West) are raised to think that bad guys are ~pure evil~ and it's unrealistic to have ambiguously bad people, but the real world doesn't quite work like that. Sure, there's the occasional psychopaths here and there, but normal people outnumber them significantly.

Take, for example, the Best Buy Digital Subscription Scam - because the general public wants cheap products and Best Buy is losing money from selling their products at their original price, Best Buy forces customers to sign up to services they didn't ask for. See:

I'm almost ashamed to admit this, but it did happen for the longest time. Ever get signed for something at Best Buy, but you swear that you never signed up for anything. Here is the trick that is used, and that I was taught from a Best Buy manager. When a customer would refuse either AOL, MSN, NetZero, magazine offers, or whatever other D-SUB (digital subscription) we had, we'd sign you up anyway. You know those Best Buy gift cards that are all over the store? Well those are just American Express cards, with a Best Buy face. So, we'd go through the motions of selecting your address but when it asked for your credit card, we'd swipe through a gift card. Since it was an American Express card in reality, the system took it and you were signed up. The customer had to deal with the late fees because they couldn't charge the credit card the provided. Not our problem.

And employees who would refuse to force customers to sign up would get into trouble and ultimately lose their jobs, and might even get falsely blamed for stealing products (since the company doesn't want to pay unemployment insurance). See this Internet confession (it's up to you if you believe this or not):

Then they [best Buy] grilled me about the investigation they're doing on me because of all the things I've been stealing from them. They said they knew I was stealing thumbdrives and returning them at another store, then using the gift cards to buy other stuff with my employee discount (nonsensical, I know). They then told me that if I sign the resignation, they will let it go without calling the police, otherwise they will find me on the security cameras and charge me to the fullest extent of the law.

Having never stolen anything in my life, I fought at first. Then I realized that if they want me to quit this badly, then I should probably just go work somewhere else, and signed the paper. I was 18 at the time.

As you can see, these are perfectly normal, non-sociopathic people doing immoral things. You realize when you grow up that most people are ultimately interested in self-survival, and that they will do anything to do so - so if you have an ecology where immoral behavior is needed for survival, you get immoral people.

DC has their culprits committing murders all the time (I do wish that DC did something more corporate- or government-related from time to time, though I admit that this is too much for their intended audience), and though I admit that this is rather extreme, this doesn't change what you said about how the series is, in a way, about Conan fighting against the "dark, cruel word". This is what I love about DC, and Japanese anime's as a whole - Japanese people seem to understand that the world is usually not black and white, and I love that they teach that value to their children. I always thought that having a good understanding of reality is important in life, so I really appreciate this.

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As you can see, these are perfectly normal, non-sociopathic people doing immoral things. You realize when you grow up that most people are ultimately interested in self-survival, and that they will do anything to do so - so if you have an ecology where immoral behavior is needed for survival, you get immoral people.

DC has their culprits committing murders all the time (I do wish that DC did something more corporate- or government-related from time to time, though I admit that this is too much for their intended audience), and though I admit that this is rather extreme, this doesn't change what you said about how the series is, in a way, about Conan fighting against the "dark, cruel word". This is what I love about DC, and Japanese anime's as a whole - Japanese people seem to understand that the world is usually not black and white, and I love that they teach that value to their children. I always thought that having a good understanding of reality is important in life, so I really appreciate this.

Most of the time, the motives which drive normal people (and, in fact, victims) to become murderer are infidelity and greed. They are often abused in some way and it's more about revenge than pure evil. Conan even points that out during the case of the bandage man (in volume 5) with his final monologue, very dark and pessimistic.

But pure evilness is the Black Organization. That's also why they are the main enemies of the series.

Like you, I like those "romantic" heroes who face the crualty of society in their everyday lives, such as Conan Edogawa, Ryo Saeba (City Hunter, Angel Heart) and Subaru Sumeragi (Tokyo Babylon, X). Because they stand for something of true significance, even though this is a hard way to live and that it often brings them sadness.

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Most of the time, the motives which drive normal people (and, in fact, victims) to become murderer are infidelity and greed. They are often abused in some way and it's more about revenge than pure evil. Conan even points that out during the case of the bandage man (in volume 5) with his final monologue, very dark and pessimistic.

But pure evilness is the Black Organization. That's also why they are the main enemies of the series.

Like you, I like those "romantic" heroes who face the crualty of society in their everyday lives, such as Conan Edogawa, Ryo Saeba (City Hunter, Angel Heart) and Subaru Sumeragi (Tokyo Babylon, X). Because they stand for something of true significance, even though this is a hard way to live and that it often brings them sadness.

Actually, even the Black Organization is not "pure evil" at all. Though maybe they are less than 1%, there are still goodness you can find inside the Org, from the bottom to the top. Like Akemi for example, she robbed and killed, but she never did it for money, she did it to rescue her sister and hoped to be Akai's girlfriend. As for Sherry, she worked for the Org. and was highly ranked, but she's more good than evil. And Vermouth, an executive member, not only that she has never given Shinichi & Sherry up to the Org., but also tried to protect Ran & Kogoro from them. But hey, that's all we need from a person who smiles when she kills...

Like you see, even the BO is not filled with evilness...

What's truly evil is this rotting world and the human's infinite greed.

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As you can see, these are perfectly normal, non-sociopathic people doing immoral things. You realize when you grow up that most people are ultimately interested in self-survival, and that they will do anything to do so - so if you have an ecology where immoral behavior is needed for survival, you get immoral people.

I think you have pointed out a key element of the series: the victims are far from being clean and many people (the suspects) each have a reason good enough to kill.

And that's what illustrates the conflict between good and evil: the "victim" has create around herself a climate which is favourable to murder by committing immoral deeds. Often, every suspects have a reason far enough to kill.

There is also something interesting in Detective Conan: the question which determine the culprit is "Who would have been able to perform this murder ?" with the trick naturally pointing out at the only person who could have performed it. But there is also another question that is not often raised: "Who would have been able to kill ?".

The fact that this question isn't raised points out the fact that every suspect could have been the murderer. One of them has become "the monster" but all of them, normal people, could have become it because of the "climate" the victim created by her immoral deeds. It's not rare that some suspects are delighted by the victim's death, although it's also true that sometimes some characters are just unable to kill no matter what.

I think that illustrates pretty much the "good versus evil" conflict inside each person in a merciless society of unscrupulous people. Even good people could be corrupted, for no other reason that it is the only way to survive in this kind of society, as you said.

But there is still an element which I find not realistic at all in the series: the fact that every random murderer is like a mastermind criminal able to confuse professional investigators. Even when the murders weren't premeditated and when the culprits are amateurs, it's like the police force are just a bunch of incompetents confronted to a criminal genius mind. But that's part of the series's charm where a little child is the only one who can't be deceived by the evil forces and their tricks.

Actually, even the Black Organization is not "pure evil" at all. Though maybe they are less than 1%, there are still goodness you can find inside the Org, from the bottom to the top. Like Akemi for example, she robbed and killed, but she never did it for money, she did it to rescue her sister and hoped to be Akai's girlfriend. As for Sherry, she worked for the Org. and was highly ranked, but she's more good than evil. And Vermouth, an executive member, not only that she has never given Shinichi & Sherry up to the Org., but also tried to protect Ran & Kogoro from them. But hey, that's all we need from a person who smiles when she kills...

Like you see, even the BO is not filled with evilness...

What's truly evil is this rotting world and the human's infinite greed.

The organization is essentially evil. Now some members have indeed more ambiguities.

Akemi wanted to left the organization because Akai shows her another path and because she realized she no longer wanted to work for the organization. Her intentions were clear, she just wanted to live a normal life with the persons she loved.

For Haibara, it's more ambiguous. She created the apotoxine and, whether she was happy with it or not, she didn't do anything to prevent its use, only coming along with the fact she created a weapon (maybe she was too afraid, or maybe she didn't even care). She only strongly rebels after her sister was killed, no longer wanting to be a puppet in the hand of an organization who eliminates those who are no longer useful to them.

Haibara's intentions themselves are contradictory: she wants to take revenge of the organization, to see it destroyed. But at the same time, she wants Conan to leave his investigations and leave peacefully. Maybe she's just afraid and running from the true battle.

And, for Vermouth, the day we will know what her true intentions are...

But, as you said, it's good to see that, even in the enemies' side, there are some conflicts. That brings more surprising developpements into the main story.

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But there is still an element which I find not realistic at all in the series: the fact that every random murderer is like a mastermind criminal able to confuse professional investigators. Even when the murders weren't premeditated and when the culprits are amateurs, it's like the police force are just a bunch of incompetents confronted to a criminal genius mind. But that's part of the series's charm where a little child is the only one who can't be deceived by the evil forces and their tricks.

I agree - and to be clear, I think that the murders are pretty unrealistic, too. ^^; People in DC seem to want to murder people for the silliest reasons (ex. because someone disagreed with your view that Irene Adler was romantically interested in Holmes), and I will never truly understand or buy most of their excuses for murdering people.

What I do accept is that real people do plenty of bad things that aren't murder for self-survival, and that DC is realistic in the sense that the bad guys are ambiguous. Personally, I take the murders as metaphors to said non-murderous crimes - I mean, murder usually doesn't happen very often in real life, outside of violent neighborhoods or a third world country - but non-murderous crimes (often involving greed) happens a lot, and I understand that a realistic solution is not to throw them all into jail (since there are so many and the jails/prisons can only handle so many people), but rather to engineer a social structure such that such behaviors will no longer be advantageous somehow.

On the BO, to be honest with you they sound like they could be like the CIA. If you look at history, you realize that the CIA's been so paranoid during the Cold War that they've replaced fairly socialist, but democratically-elected political leaders with right-wing, pro-US-business dictators in the Middle East and in South America, as well as Africa. For example, see Congo (Lumumba was the guy assasinated, and Mobutu was the dictator):

. . . I think the assassination of Lumumba was something that was felt by many people to be a sort of pivotal turning point in the saga of Africa gaining its independence. In the 1950s, there were movements for independence all over Africa. There was a great deal of idealism in the air. There was a great deal of hope in the air, both among Africans and among their supporters in the United States and Europe, that at last these colonies would become independent. And I think people imagined real independence — that is, that these countries would be able to set off on their own and control their own destiny economically as well as politically. And the assassination of Lumumba really signaled that that was not to be, because, for Belgium, as for the other major European colonial powers, like Britain and France, giving independence to an African colony was OK for them as long as it didn’t disturb existing business arrangements. As long as the European country could continue to own the mines, the factories, the plantations, well, OK, let them have their politics.

But Lumumba spoke very loudly, very dramatically, saying Africa needs to be economically independent, as well. And it was a fiery speech on this subject that he gave at the actual independence ceremonies, June 30th, 1960, where he was replying to an extremely arrogant speech by King Baudouin of Belgium. It was a speech he gave on this subject that I think really began the process that ended two months later with the CIA, with White House approval, decreeing that he should be assassinated....

And then, the really disastrous thing that followed was this enthusiastic United States backing for the dictatorial regime of Mobutu, who seized total power a couple years later and ran a 32-year dictatorship, enriched himself by about $4 billion, and really ran his country into the ground, was greeted by every American president, with the sole exception of Jimmy Carter, who was in office during those 32 years. And he left the country a wreck, from which it has still not recovered.

Also see what a former CIA agent said on what happened:

JOHN STOCKWELL: The CIA had developed a program to assassinate Lumumba, under Devlin’s encouragement and management. The program they developed, the operation, didn’t work. They didn’t follow through on it. It was to give poison to Lumumba. And they couldn’t find a setting in which to get the poison to him successfully in a way that it wouldn’t appear to be a CIA operation. I mean, you couldn’t invite him to a cocktail party and give him a drink and have him die a short time later, obviously. And so, they gave up on it. They got cold feet. And instead, they handled it by the chief of station talking to Mobutu about the threat that Lumumba posed, and Mobutu going out and killing Lumumba, having his men kill Lumumba.

INTERVIEWER: What about the CIA’s relationship with Mobutu? Were they paying him money?

JOHN STOCKWELL: Yes, indeed. I was there in 1968 when the chief of station told the story about having been, the day before that day, having gone to make payment to Mobutu of cash — $25,000 — and Mobutu saying, "Keep the money. I don’t need it." And by then, of course, Mobutu’s European bank account was so huge that $25,000 was nothing to him.

Here are other countries that the CIA messed with, if you're curious. The CIA also did research on how to control people's minds. As you can see, the CIA did some evil sh**, and a lot of people are upset about it (hence the terrorists), but the CIA thought that they were doing the right thing. Maybe the BO will be similar - Japanese people don't usually believe in the existence of ~pure evil~, so maybe the BO will have some excuse for what they do, too (though that's not to say that I condone this behavior, I just understand it and accept that this is real life).

You learn that, in real life, what really drives 'evil' is ignorance, pessimism, and pride - but in the end, if you upset a vast number of people, those people will usually fight back and eventually win, since people do want to enjoy their lives (see: Arab Spring and countless other revolutions during history). In that aspect, the 'dark, cruel world' has some hope. :) Kinda like Conan, I guess.

/Rants about real life

Anyways, I feel like I pay too much attention to news/history sometimes - they're usually quite depressing, ha ha. ^^;

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The organization is essentially evil. Now some members have indeed more ambiguities.

Akemi wanted to left the organization because Akai shows her another path and because she realized she no longer wanted to work for the organization. Her intentions were clear, she just wanted to live a normal life with the persons she loved.

For Haibara, it's more ambiguous. She created the apotoxine and, whether she was happy with it or not, she didn't do anything to prevent its use, only coming along with the fact she created a weapon (maybe she was too afraid, or maybe she didn't even care). She only strongly rebels after her sister was killed, no longer wanting to be a puppet in the hand of an organization who eliminates those who are no longer useful to them.

Haibara's intentions themselves are contradictory: she wants to take revenge of the organization, to see it destroyed. But at the same time, she wants Conan to leave his investigations and leave peacefully. Maybe she's just afraid and running from the true battle.

And, for Vermouth, the day we will know what her true intentions are...

But, as you said, it's good to see that, even in the enemies' side, there are some conflicts. That brings more surprising developpements into the main story.

What I meant is that when situation changes, even BO members can be better/turn good/betray evilness... (the suitable words depend on people's different points of view), despite their cold hearts & the fact that all of their deeds are not acceptable. Which indicates that the BO is not always pure evil (though sometimes Ai's behaviors are confusing like you said, which led some fans to believe that she's still loyal with the BO).

By the way, the original purpose of APTX-4869 is still unknown (it might be something that Shiho thought was "good", like immortality..., that's why she still continued her parents' research despite the uncomfortable atmosphere inside the Org). Just because it was never finished that Gin used it to kill (the poisoning-effect was actually the side-effect). And Shiho did get enraged when Gin used it to kill without her permission. When the Org. sent her to investigate Shinichi's death, she didn't report the fact that he might be alive. Which means that the killing effect and the Org's actions were against her will...

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People in DC seem to want to murder people for the silliest reasons (ex. because someone disagreed with your view that Irene Adler was romantically interested in Holmes), and I will never truly understand or buy most of their excuses for murdering people.

Most of the mobiles are serious. In the case of the Holmes Freaks Case, which is an hommage to Sherlock Holmes with a satirical tone, the mobile is a joke by the author. It's not a parody but there is a lot of derision in that episode, and I didn't find it out of place that the mobile was kinda stupid (even funny).

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What I meant is that when situation changes, even BO members can be better/turn good/betray evilness... (the suitable words depend on people's different points of view), despite their cold hearts & the fact that all of their deeds are not acceptable. Which indicates that the BO is not always pure evil (though sometimes Ai's behaviors are confusing like you said, which led some fans to believe that she's still loyal with the BO).

So there's hope for Vermouth to become an ally in the end?

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So there's hope for Vermouth to become an ally in the end?

I really don't know... For now, Vermouth is still loyal to the Org. As soon as it doesn't have anything to do with Conan, Ran, Kogoro, children in general..., she still kills without hesitation and cooperates with other members very well. Her protection towards Conan shows more of a rebellion rather than betrayal...

OK We really are getting off-topic.

What I like about Conan is not the cases themselves or the mystery, it is how well Gosho has portrayed the characters' personalities and emotions. I also like the BO. But most importantly is that I can actually learn life-lessons from DC...

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As for me, what got me hooked was the crimes. I love the complicated tricks and how I really need to think in order to figure it out (though I'm almost always wrong). I also learn a lot from DC, like facts and such.

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In fact, the whole series is a metaphore of the fight between good and evil inside the society and inside each of us. Much of the murderers of the series aren't really bad people, they are much more victims of the merciless society who turns people into vultures and the innocents into killers. Their reasons to kill are understandable and we often feel sympathy toward them. They are just good people who take a wrong turn in life because of this crual world.

This.

I dont really like shows where there is this villain who is completely evil, planning to take over the world or something... I prefer something more personal. Like this where there is a reason that drives people to do something. The villain of a show may not really be bad, and circumstances are what drives them to do all the bad deeds that they did. Because in this world, no one is truly good or truly bad. The only thing that I am a little unhappy about is how "perfect" the main character is. But as the series goes on, we can start to see the little imperfections of our protagonist and I think that's good.

Another reason I like about this show, is that not only does it have its cases, it is also linked to a plot. If its cases alone, I may actually prefer Kindaichi (Dont ask me why :V I like both, but I like one of them better.) But the winning point of this show, is that it has plot. Not really like Kindaichi where you can watch the episodes in any order and all still makes sense. Also, for every few episodes, there is a closure (like an ending to a specific event or case) and a new storyline starts. So, it is like a story within a story within a story, which is something I find interesting. Many other anime doesn't really have this - another climax starts up just as one is about to end, and they are never ending, no time for a breath.

Also, Conan is soooooo cute <3 XD And Kaitou Kid <3333333333 All the gadget works and skills <333333333 --> All thanks to Agasa. XD

However, I feel that it would be better if there were a development of the villains... D: Too little is known about every single one of them. Not even GIN and VoDKA D: They were the first villains in the show!!! Should have a little more information about them :(

Anyways, all in all~ Wonderful series.

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