The Secret Behind Vermouth's Youth!

[tengaku squared 291]

nah she died and kabuto used edo tensei oups wrong manga

Please, no Naruto references in a Detective Conan discussion.

[im abcd 0]

This really will remain a mystery. I think she took some other version of aptx drug .As she was the favorite lady of the boss she was used as a test subject .She got immortality but maybe there are side effects ? That aren't yet revealed in the manga.Therefore they gave up on that drug and made another version of aptx which was supposed to be used on namabuchi (or whatever is the name of that killer).And who knows maybe the scientist of BO said that ,the drug is fatal and cant be used for some or the other reason . And therefore gin tried it on shinichi .

But who knows .... :!:

[Chekhov MacGuffin 1089]

This really will remain a mystery. I think she took some other version of aptx drug .As she was the favorite lady of the boss she was used as a test subject .She got immortality but maybe there are side effects ? That aren't yet revealed in the manga.Therefore they gave up on that drug and made another version of aptx which was supposed to be used on namabuchi (or whatever is the name of that killer).And who knows maybe the scientist of BO said that ,the drug is fatal and cant be used for some or the other reason . And therefore gin tried it on shinichi .

But who knows .... :!:

I don't think the boss would want to use Vermouth as a text subject for a drug that might kill her unless this older version of APTX wasn't so lethal, or maybe this was before Vermouth was high ranked and important to the boss. I like the idea of there perhaps being side effects for her we don't know about.

Personally, I think Vermouth was actually the model that APTX was based on rather than she took it. This implies that it was something else that stopped her from aging and the formula was lost.

[aika 23]

I don't think the boss would want to use Vermouth as a text subject for a drug that might kill her unless this older version of APTX wasn't so lethal, or maybe this was before Vermouth was high ranked and important to the boss. I like the idea of there perhaps being side effects for her we don't know about.

Personally, I think Vermouth was actually the model that APTX was based on rather than she took it. This implies that it was something else that stopped her from aging and the formula was lost.

Does APTX makes everyone 8 year's old kid ?

[Chekhov MacGuffin 1089]

Does APTX makes everyone 8 year's old kid ?

We don't know because we can't extrapolate from just two people who took it starting at the same age. We don't know if Conan and Ai are aging or not in their current bodies, or if APTX turns adults to little kids or just subtracts 10 years.

[aika 23]

We don't know because we can't extrapolate from just two people who took it starting at the same age. We don't know if Conan and Ai are aging or not in their current bodies, or if APTX turns adults to little kids or just subtracts 10 years.

Then we cannot be sure that vermouth actually Took APTX, but then again if she took it and became 8 years old kid it seems logical as jodie stated after 20 years she looked the same.

EDIT:- Then again she was the same in new york case so it might not be possible for her to take APTX

[im abcd 0]

I don't think the boss would want to use Vermouth as a text subject for a drug that might kill her unless this older version of APTX wasn't so lethal, or maybe this was before Vermouth was high ranked and important to the boss. I like the idea of there perhaps being side effects for her we don't know about.

Personally, I think Vermouth was actually the model that APTX was based on rather than she took it. This implies that it was something else that stopped her from aging and the formula was lost.

Yea,that can be possible ..vermouth herself being the model of the aptx .But till date there have been no immortal beings or super natural beings shown in DC .So maybe no ?

[Chekhov MacGuffin 1089]

Yea,that can be possible ..vermouth herself being the model of the aptx .But till date there have been no immortal beings or super natural beings shown in DC .So maybe no ?

I think there is plenty of overt unnaturalness considering Conan and Haibara alone. I'm not claiming Vermouth is immortal or even older than the natural lifespan of a human, just perhaps not physically aging. Vermouth managed to suddenly vault over a handrail from a dead hanging position while shot in the side. It would take a lot of strength training for even a 20-30 year old to do that while resisting the pain, I am not confident that a 50 year old woman's body could manage, even with extreme training.

[Partsu 0]

Something happened to Vermouth that stopped her aging.BO wants to replicate that.

She's more than 70 years old.

She told someone little story why she doesn't age and they took it literally->MK & Pandora (means Pandora doesn't exist)

BO is laughing its ass off as they watch Snake,his bosses and his underlings go around trying to find Pandora (which doesn't exist)

Akako is master of hypnotism and just happens to quess things in advance, nothing supernatural there.

Miyanos used Vermouth as quinea pigs->she killed them in an accident->other people accepted this because they are frigging scared of her.

Sherry used her too->she scared her out of her mind->they hate each other.

Vermouth has daughter she loves but that daughter is kept as hostage so She can't bring down the BO alone->tries to find outsider to destroy them->helps Conan.

when Snake's gang and Kaito realize this try to kill Vermouth for it->Vermouth kills the others but spares Kaito who just stared at the scene like an idiot.

in the end Conan will get everyone in BO behind the bars except Vermouth & of course Kir. Kid can't take it anymore and tries to kill Vermouth but Vermouths commits suicide.

and conan'll never get his body back and Ran'll molest him...xDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD

okay maybe I went a teeny weeny bit overboard...

[im abcd 0]

I think there is plenty of overt unnaturalness considering Conan and Haibara alone. I'm not claiming Vermouth is immortal or even older than the natural lifespan of a human, just perhaps not physically aging. Vermouth managed to suddenly vault over a handrail from a dead hanging position while shot in the side. It would take a lot of strength training for even a 20-30 year old to do that while resisting the pain, I am not confident that a 50 year old woman's body could manage, even with extreme training.

Yea,that is true .Guess we just have to wait and see :-|

[moroboshi dai 11]

how about that

sharon really died and someone is under cris disguise

[Chekhov MacGuffin 1089]

how about that

sharon really died and someone is under cris disguise

But then the fingerprints wouldn't match.

[im abcd 0]

Vermouth is Pandora. Case closed. no pun intended.

Maybe your theory is possible ...vermouth isn't pandora but has taken the tears from the pandora making her immortal .They may have pandora which kid is looking for .So in the near future Conan and kid would team up to fight the BO.

[Charala97 23]

Maybe your theory is possible ...vermouth isn't pandora but has taken the tears from the pandora making her immortal .They may have pandora which kid is looking for .So in the near future Conan and kid would team up to fight the BO.

Kaito Kid is fighting against another org. So, I don't think Conan and Kid will team up to fight the BO. He has a program of his own. Gosho won't merge both of them. Gosho just treats Kid like a regular guest in the series, not as an important character of the series. I read somewhere that Gosho has planned a different ending for Magic Kaito which will not have anything to do with Detective Conan.

Ok..... I think we are going off-topic.

[IHKF 23]

Oh come on guys EVERYBODY KNOWS she has the fountain of youth in her backyard. :roll:

[Scar Akai 65]

But then the fingerprints wouldn't match.

Well, fingerprints can be faked! all they need is the set of fingerprints....

[Chekhov MacGuffin 1089]

Well, fingerprints can be faked! all they need is the set of fingerprints....

You can't go back in time to change fingerprints. Vermouth didn't intend to leave the set on the glasses so they are the real deal. She thought they were going to be destroyed when the house was burnt down. Fastforward, Vermouth didn't know Jodie was trying to get a sample of her Chris and Sharon fingerprints to see if they matched the sample from 20 years ago because Vermouth had no idea the sample from 20 years ago even existed. Considering the FBI can use their power to take in secret anything that the Vineyards ever touched (movie props, autographs, chairs, coins, etc), its impossible to defend against an attack like this, and its even more impossible to defend against an attack she didn't know was happening.

[Scar Akai 65]

You can't go back in time to change fingerprints. Vermouth didn't intend to leave the set on the glasses so they are the real deal. She thought they were going to be destroyed when the house was burnt down. Fastforward, Vermouth didn't know Jodie was trying to get a sample of her Chris and Sharon fingerprints to see if they matched the sample from 20 years ago because Vermouth had no idea the sample from 20 years ago even existed. Considering the FBI can use their power to take in secret anything that the Vineyards ever touched (movie props, autographs, chairs, coins, etc), its impossible to defend against an attack like this, and its even more impossible to defend against an attack she didn't know was happening.

Well, I'm sure that the BO have sharon's prints..... They might've duplicated it and made Chris use it.... And anyone would've suspected/doubted about Vermouth's age and identity.... You don't need to know that Jodie was going to check it. I'm pretty sure that anybody smart enough to be in the Bureau would've done the same. And hence, after they knew that Sharon left her prints there, they decided to trick the FBI by doing so. Another possibility is that there's an undercover agent somewhere in the FBI who told BO about the spectacles, causing them to come up with that plot.

[Chekhov MacGuffin 1089]

Well, I'm sure that the BO have sharon's prints..... They might've duplicated it and made Chris use it....

Exactly how does "duplicated it and made Chris use it" physically work? The technique actually has to exist in real life to be somewhat plausible.

And anyone would've suspected/doubted about Vermouth's age and identity....

You are going to have to explain how this is obvious. She is a master of disguise. The only reason Jodie found out was because of her catchphrase.

You don't need to know that Jodie was going to check it. I'm pretty sure that anybody smart enough to be in the Bureau would've done the same. And hence, after they knew that Sharon left her prints there, they decided to trick the FBI by doing so.

The FBI can use prints from years ago and get multiple prints from multiple sources. How can the Org possibly forge prints everywhere the FBI might check?

Another possibility is that there's an undercover agent somewhere in the FBI who told BO about the spectacles, causing them to come up with that plot.

If someone in the BO knew about the spectacles, they would know who brought them: Jodie. Vermouth was trying to find Jodie to kill her, but she was hidden in witness protection. If there was an Org spy in the FBI, why didn't Vermouth use him to find Jodie?

And don't forget, besides the FBI's deductions, there are Conan's deductions to consider. He also came to the conclusion Sharon is Chris. You can read about it on the wiki.

[Scar Akai 65]

Exactly how does "duplicated it and made Chris use it" physically work? The technique actually has to exist in real life to be somewhat plausible.

The following were copied from http://www.bromba.com/faq/fpfaqe.htm#kopierbar:

Can a fingerprint be copied?

Yes. Almost all biometric features can be copied at varying expense. Fingerprints can be copied in the form of data sets, paper prints, wax molds, etc. It is possible with criminal technical methods to observe, analyze, and copy latent fingerprints unwittingly left behind on beer glasses or door handles. One of the oldest descriptions of a high tech copy procedure has been given in a novel from R. Austin Freeman [Freeman]: Take a plate of chromate gelatin, expose this plate with the slide of the fingerprint and wash out the surface. Thereby those locations which have not been hardened by light are removed, thus leaving a fingerprint relief. Whether the copy is recognized as such or is accepted as the original depends on the fingerprint sensor and the analysis algorithm. Ultimately, however, the specific use dictates whether copying is worth while at all and whether it can be harmful. In most applications, it helps very little if a forger can make an exact copy of his own finger. From optimized protection systems, one can expect that a copy will cause no damage.

How easy is it to copy a fingerprint?

It is relatively easy and inexpensive to copy the own fingerprint (may be compared with the manufacturing of a duplicate key). This may be done in the form of a rubber stamp which may be delivered by a stamp manufacturer on the basis of an electronic fingerprint template. Mechanical copies require as interim step a negative. Paper copies are made using a stamp pad. Copies from the own finger are a risk for systems for which the feint of an authentication by a complice can result in a damage (e.g., attendance system: feint of attendance by abandoning a suitable fingerprint copy to a colleague).

Much more complicated is the manufacturing of a finger image copy from a non-cooperative person (feature theft). Here one has to get access to a fitting fingerprint of the foreign person. One way is to find latent fingerprints. However, latent prints often

• are difficult to find

• have a quality which in fact allow a dactyloscopic analysis, but which are inapplicable to electronic fingerprint verification systems

• belong to the wrong finger

• show the false area

• cannot be gathered without leaving significant traces (e.g., graphite powder)

In security considerations often (but misleadingly) "cooperative victims" are supposed. To acquire the own latent print or that of a conscious contributor is relatively easy. It depends from the assurance requirement of an application whether a fingerprint authentication system must be able to distinguish between copied prints and authentic prints or if the fingerprint may be considered as a secret.

The FBI can use prints from years ago and get multiple prints from multiple sources. How can the Org possibly forge prints everywhere the FBI might check?

Are you referring to Sharon or Chris’s prints? If you’re referring to Chris’s prints, it might’ve been because as Sharon was her mom, Chris grew up within the bo, knowing that she would one day take her mom’s place. Hence, the BO would be able to give her the fake prints as mentioned above right from the moment she became an adult/was known to public.

If someone in the BO knew about the spectacles, they would know who brought them: Jodie. Vermouth was trying to find Jodie to kill her, but she was hidden in witness protection. If there was an Org spy in the FBI, why didn't Vermouth use him to find Jodie?

Well, I agree that my statement was wrong. But I think that knowing the BO, they would be cautious at all time and as I have said earlier, , the BO might’ve given her the fake prints as mentioned above right from the moment she became an adult/was known to public.

And don't forget, besides the FBI's deductions, there are Conan's deductions to consider. He also came to the conclusion Sharon is Chris. You can read about it on the wiki.

Conan deduced that they were the same person because “the serial killer” wiped the blood and “Dr Araide” rescued him at the bus hijacking case. Wouldn’t it make sense if the “serial killer” was Chris Vineyard??? And since the one disguised as Dr Araide was also Chris Vineyard, she helped him and continued rescuing him after that to show her gratitude.

[Chekhov MacGuffin 1089]

The following were copied from http://www.bromba.com/faq/fpfaqe.htm#kopierbar:

Can a fingerprint be copied?

Yes. Almost all biometric features can be copied at varying expense. Fingerprints can be copied in the form of data sets, paper prints, wax molds, etc. It is possible with criminal technical methods to observe, analyze, and copy latent fingerprints unwittingly left behind on beer glasses or door handles. One of the oldest descriptions of a high tech copy procedure has been given in a novel from R. Austin Freeman [Freeman]: Take a plate of chromate gelatin, expose this plate with the slide of the fingerprint and wash out the surface. Thereby those locations which have not been hardened by light are removed, thus leaving a fingerprint relief. Whether the copy is recognized as such or is accepted as the original depends on the fingerprint sensor and the analysis algorithm. Ultimately, however, the specific use dictates whether copying is worth while at all and whether it can be harmful. In most applications, it helps very little if a forger can make an exact copy of his own finger. From optimized protection systems, one can expect that a copy will cause no damage.

How easy is it to copy a fingerprint?

It is relatively easy and inexpensive to copy the own fingerprint (may be compared with the manufacturing of a duplicate key). This may be done in the form of a rubber stamp which may be delivered by a stamp manufacturer on the basis of an electronic fingerprint template. Mechanical copies require as interim step a negative. Paper copies are made using a stamp pad. Copies from the own finger are a risk for systems for which the feint of an authentication by a complice can result in a damage (e.g., attendance system: feint of attendance by abandoning a suitable fingerprint copy to a colleague).

Much more complicated is the manufacturing of a finger image copy from a non-cooperative person (feature theft). Here one has to get access to a fitting fingerprint of the foreign person. One way is to find latent fingerprints. However, latent prints often

• are difficult to find

• have a quality which in fact allow a dactyloscopic analysis, but which are inapplicable to electronic fingerprint verification systems

• belong to the wrong finger

• show the false area

• cannot be gathered without leaving significant traces (e.g., graphite powder)

In security considerations often (but misleadingly) "cooperative victims" are supposed. To acquire the own latent print or that of a conscious contributor is relatively easy. It depends from the assurance requirement of an application whether a fingerprint authentication system must be able to distinguish between copied prints and authentic prints or if the fingerprint may be considered as a secret.

You don't seem to be thinking about how this would work. Sure you can copy prints, but then you have some big bulky thing the print is on that is mostly useless. You could try to attach a rubber gel or something to your fingertips, but it doesn't produce fingerprint oil like real fingers. Most types of things you could attach on the fingers would make them look drumsticks. Finally hands take a lot of abuse. Unless you get a really durable band-aid, they tend to fall off right away. Anything that scratches or rubs the fake fingerprint even slightly too hard will destroy it. Maybe something like this would work one off for a very short time. On a movie set, no.

Conan deduced that they were the same person because “the serial killer” wiped the blood and “Dr Araide” rescued him at the bus hijacking case. Wouldn’t it make sense if the “serial killer” was Chris Vineyard??? And since the one disguised as Dr Araide was also Chris Vineyard, she helped him and continued rescuing him after that to show her gratitude.

You are missing some of Conan's logic. You should check the wiki.

[Scar Akai 65]

You don't seem to be thinking about how this would work. Sure you can copy prints, but then you have some big bulky thing the print is on that is mostly useless. You could try to attach a rubber gel or something to your fingertips, but it doesn't produce fingerprint oil like real fingers. Most types of things you could attach on the fingers would make them look drumsticks. Finally hands take a lot of abuse. Unless you get a really durable band-aid, they tend to fall off right away. Anything that scratches or rubs the fake fingerprint even slightly too hard will destroy it. Maybe something like this would work one off for a very short time. On a movie set, no.

You are missing some of Conan's logic. You should check the wiki.

At the same time Shinichi and Ran were in New York City, Vermouth disguised as a silver-haired serial killer in order to lure out Shuichi Akai. Later, Conan suspected the serial killer may have been someone in disguise when he heard that the serial killer’s blood and fingerprints on the stair rails were cleaned up, an action uncharacteristic for someone intending to commit suicide. Sharon was the only person Conan knew about in the local area with high disguise abilities, so suspicion naturally fell onto her.

After Vermouth disguised as Araide, Conan deduced from the way Vermouth was behaving that she was trying to avoid involving Conan in her plan and was only targeting Haibara. Vermouth as Dr. Araide risked her life to protect Conan in the bus jack case and helped him out in Sato's matchup case. When Conan gets the letter from Vermouth inviting him the off-season Halloween mystery party, he realizes that Vermouth's intentions are to only trap Haibara and that Vermouth is trying to lure Conan to the party to avoid catching him up in her plan.

Conan who hadn't existed a year ago has no reason to be “protected” by Vermouth. Conan deduces Vermouth must know his identity as Shinichi and the reason for her “protection” must have to do with something he did as Shinichi. However, Sharon was the only one Shinichi had a connection with, and she is apparently dead. Sharon’s daughter Chris has never met Shinichi and is estranged from Sharon Vineyard so she alone doesn't have an adequate motive to protect Shinichi. Also, it wouldn’t make sense for Chris Vineyard, who isn’t a family friend like Sharon, to be able to recognize Shinichi as Conan; presumably Vermouth saw young Shinichi with Yukiko when she was Sharon.

All these clues come together when Conan makes the assumption that Sharon Vineyard is Chris Vineyard who disguised as the silver haired serial killer in New York and that she is grateful for being rescued by Shinichi and Ran.[41]

Can you please point out which one of the "logic" from the wiki article(which is in the spoiler box)I have missed? Thanks......

[Chekhov MacGuffin 1089]

Can you please point out which one of the "logic" from the wiki article(which is in the spoiler box)I have missed? Thanks......

"However, Sharon was the only one Shinichi had a connection with, and she is apparently dead. Sharon’s daughter Chris has never met Shinichi and is estranged from Sharon Vineyard so she alone doesn't have an adequate motive to protect Shinichi. Also, it wouldn’t make sense for Chris Vineyard, who isn’t a family friend like Sharon, to be able to recognize Shinichi as Conan; presumably Vermouth saw young Shinichi with Yukiko when she was Sharon."

[Scar Akai 65]

"However, Sharon was the only one Shinichi had a connection with, and she is apparently dead. Sharon’s daughter Chris has never met Shinichi and is estranged from Sharon Vineyard so she alone doesn't have an adequate motive to protect Shinichi. Also, it wouldn’t make sense for Chris Vineyard, who isn’t a family friend like Sharon, to be able to recognize Shinichi as Conan; presumably Vermouth saw young Shinichi with Yukiko when she was Sharon."

But if I wasn't mistaken, I said that the one who disguised herself as the Serial killer wasn't Sharon whom Shinichi met earlier but her daughter! Hence, if that was the case, Shinichi saved Chris's life, causing her to be grateful to Shinichi! :grin:

[Chekhov MacGuffin 1089]

But if I wasn't mistaken, I said that the one who disguised herself as the Serial killer wasn't Sharon whom Shinichi met earlier but her daughter! Hence, if that was the case, Shinichi saved Chris's life, causing her to be grateful to Shinichi! :grin:

We know that's not the case though. Remember the serial killer was shot in the side? If you look at Yukiko talking to Sharon at the end of the case, she mentions there was an angel for her, while clutching her side where the serial killer was shot.