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Identity of the Black Organization

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Okay, as I have said in many of my posts, my reading of the manga is progressing much slower than my watching of the anime. I am thinking now that this may be a good thing, as I can view the earlier cases I am reading in light of the later episodes I've seen, as well as discussions I have read on here. It is in this way that I just spotted something that I think might be a hint towards the identity of the Black Organization.

 

Please note that I said the Organization, not the boss. There is already a thread for that, as well as threads about the Organization's goals, but I couldn't find any about the true name/identity of the Organization as a whole, so I decided to start one myself. If you have any thoughts on my theory and want to help develop it further, then please contribute. If you have your own theory and want to express it, please feel free to do so. If you are Aoyama-sensei and want to use my thread as a means to reveal the truth behind the Black Organization, then...I am just speechless!

 

Anyways, in the manga, I just read the case with the gathering of detectives at the Sunset Mansion and something caught my eye. In a lot of discussions, I have seen several people associate the Black Organization with crows. I believe I even remember hearing Haibara say in the anime that the Boss wants the Organization's members to appear like crows, hence the black theme. Plus the reference to crows in Nanatsu no Ko, the starting notes of which the Boss purposefully chose for an e-mail address. Now, as I am on episode 730 without rewatching any earlier cases, I don't remember many of the small details from the gathering of detectives case on the anime, so it may or may not be that the hint I just caught in the manga did not survive the adaptation to the anime (although, I have to be honest, it's just as likely I have forgotten about it because I did not yet realize the significance). Either way...

 

In the manga case, the story was recounted to the gathered detectives about the man who had previously owned the mansion and passed away, then many people gathered there for an auction of his belongings. As the story was told, it was stated that the man had been a member of a group known as the Crow Association. It was even alluded to that this Crow Association might have had something to do with the massacre that ensued during the auction, if not the man's death in the first place. Crows. Associated with a shady organization. Hmm. Now, the manga said the Crow Association disappeared about 40 years before the current story. Is it possible that, when the Crow Association disappeared, they hadn't disbanded, but merely went into hiding? Is it then possible that the hidden Crow Association is the true identity of the Black Organization? Granted, the only name mentioned as being connected to the Crow Association was the man whoowned the mansion, but it wouldn't be much of n association if he was the only member, so surely there were others. It has also been stated that Haibara would be able to figure out who the Boss is if she heard the true name of the Black Organization. Is it not possible that the reason for that is because of that person's previous known connection to the Crow Association? Another possibility, though slim, is that the man who owned the mansion and supposedly died 40 years earlier, Karasuma Renya, didn't actually die but instead went into hiding and he actually IS Anokata. Karasuma. Karasu. Crow. Again with the crows. And Aoyama-sensei has said that Anokata's fill name has been given already. Thoughts? Rebuttals? Accusations of insanity? Let me know what you guys think.

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http://www.detectiveconanworld.com/wiki/User:Chekhov_MacGuffin/Karasuma_Renya

 

This page is meant to clear up some misunderstandings about Karasuma Renya caused by bad translations and subtitles. Credit to jimmy_kud0_tv2 and Kor who did the research.

  • The crow association doesn't exist. It's a mistranslation of Karasuma Renya's name.
  • The Kaizou Subs also completely skip the line where it says that Karasuma Renya inherited the mansion from his mother. They just leave the line "He told me he always wanted to find the treasure" on the screen when Senma is explaining the inheritance thing. (Quote from jimmy_kud0_tv2)
  • In the Kaizou subs version of the anime, during the scene where Detective Mogi, Mouri, and Conan find the piano and the note hidden between the keys, Mogi states that the tragedy rumor and the riddle are "all true and relevant" ... However the word used in both the manga and anime in Japanese is "mayutsuba" meaning "false / counterfeit", which is the exact opposite of what the subtitles say. (Quote from jimmy_kud0_tv2)
  • Karasuma Renya later finds the clues about the King, Queen, and Knight and begins paying people to see if they can solve the riddle. At the end of the case, Senma tries to say that Karasuma was still alive 40 years ago when her father was hired to solve the riddle. Karasuma was killing the people he invited to solve the riddle as motivation to find the treasure quicker. This contradicts the earlier story that is told about two strangers and marijuana on several points. 1. Both events happened 40 years ago. 2. Both events caused massive amounts of blood to be spilled. 3. Karasuma was still alive at 40 years ago even though the story said he died "half a century ago". (Quote from jimmy_kud0_tv2)

In other words, Renya wasn't smart enough to solve the riddle of his own house.

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Well, damn. I thought I was onto something. Oh, well. At least we now have a thread specifically to exchange ideas  about the identity of the Black Organization as a whole. Thanks for clearing that up for me, Chem. You have any thoughts on the Organization's true name?

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I was kinda brainstorming and came up with a theory of how BO is formed...not it's identity,though

Here's my so-called theory:

Everything started when Ai's grandparents started the APTX research(the name might be different) to gain immortality/ 'wake up the dead' like Ai once said. Somehow, Vermouth was their friend/relative or something along the line and she knew about the research and its purpose, turns out,anokata was her bf(in either way)and she told him/her everything.And he/she was so interested he intended to have the drugs for himself or something...

When Ai's grandparents finished the drug, they tested it on Vermouth which would explain why she's still young(none of us knew her real age after all). They might've created another one which was taken by anokata...but that was all. Anokata killed them and on their last minute,they deleted all the data on their pc and told anokata that their daughter, Elena Miyano(her surname might be different tho)who was a child then,knew the important parts of the research so they would spare her. Of course, it might've been a lie but they were dead so anokata have no way of confirming it and took Elena into their custody,sent her to a prestigious school/college. Meanwhile,he/she tried to continue the research by hiring other scientists but none of them could and the BO was born...I think that originally BO might be a mafia gang with a different name with their sole purpose was to assasinate to earn money,which would explain them still doing it to earn money... Then,Elena grew up,fall in love with the genius Atsushi Miyano and got married. Anokata wasn't against it since Atsushi might also help with the research. And the rest happened as we know... 

This theory would explain Vermouth calling Shinichi & Akai Silver bullet but just let them be because she felt guilty for killing her best friends/ relative (I'm guessing relative since it would make sense about her wanting Sherry to die) but couldn't do anything about it since she love her bf,anokata,instead hoping that someone else would take them down...Vermouth might be the type to be loyal to her friends as she didn't even try to harm Yukiko in the train...and also, Elena's nickname,Hell Angel might be caused by her supposed knowledge of the drug...I mean,

'wake up the dead' is hell-ish enough...

This is just my crazy theory with many flaws,perhaps but I hope it make sense and also sorry for any grammatical errors I made...

:)

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just came from reading manga chapter 1008 and they probably have revealed his name 

Spoiler

KARASUMA RENYA. Turns out u were right all along

Also i have read i  the entire manga and just came from reading that case of the sunset mansion but i didn't find his name karasuma rnya anywhere 

where did you read it?

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On 12/12/2017 at 11:00 PM, dcfanboy16 said:

just came from reading manga chapter 1008 and they probably have revealed his name 

  Hide contents

KARASUMA RENYA. Turns out u were right all along

Also i have read i  the entire manga and just came from reading that case of the sunset mansion but i didn't find his name karasuma rnya anywhere 

where did you read it?

 

There is a flawed version of the Sunset mansion case that accidentally translated his name as "Crow Association", which is incorrect. 

This image below should say  "Karasuma Renya", but does not. . 

 

8F9HN9n.jpg

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13 hours ago, dcfanboy16 said:

MAKES SENSE I GUESS

SO THERE R MISTAKES IN THE TRANSLATION??

 

 

There are a lot of mistakes in some of the older manga translations, especially the ones translated from languages other than Japanese. 

you can tell because some of them don't even have the names as Kogoro, Ran, ect.....

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I guess chapter 1008 pretty much...

Spoiler

... confirms you were on the right track. And I guess it makes sense in a way. The old translation might have been an error, but it pointed in the right direction. If the organisation's name is in fact "Crow Association", it would have given away the boss (since we know his name already). The boss's phone number also points towards crows, the dress code of the organisation resembles crows; damn, it was in front of us the whole time. 

 

Since he inherited a lot of money, he could have enough to finance the organisation by himself or at least started funding the beginning of it. What his relationship to Vermouth is remains unknown for now I guess.

 

But it all makes sense for now. I don't think this is a red herring. Karasuma Renya appeared around the year 2000 for the first time; what a waste it would be to bring back that relatively unknown character to start this theory just to throw it away after another 100+ episodes.

 

This might be the start of the end. :D   

 

Edited by KajTorvaldGrey
I forgot those: ...

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Yeah, it's looking like my old theory may have been right, even if it was for the wrong reasons. But I somehow feel neither satisfaction nor vindication from it. In fact, I feel a little disappointed, to be totally honest. I would much rather had my more recent Miyano theory turn out to be correct. I think it would have been a more interesting development for the story. But, like you, I don't think this is a red herring. I've seen the possibility raised that Karasuma started the Organization but did indeed die so others have taken over. If that's the case, the I guess my Miyano theory could still turn out to be true, but I find it less likely with the Karasuma reveal.

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