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Vodka..Lamest of the Black?

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After going through almost 630 episodes of Detective Conan, i have always wondered how Vodka got into the Black Organisation, taking in consideration his qualities.

Question

Do you think that Vodka is the lamest member of the Organisation, or is he a very important part of the Organisation?

My answer: Yes, he is lame.

He's just a sidekick who is mostly seen with Gin, driving the Porche. Neither is he intelligent(Can be proved if you have watched Contact with the Black Organisation Arc), nor does he have the "BO appearance"(Which Tequila has). If only Vodka and Tequila could switch places. 

He easily fell pray to Conan's traps. He let Ai escape due to distraction. He is nothing without Gin. He is easy going and trusting, bad oberservant and even once goes off-course from the Organisation's orders.

Only positive point i see is that, due to his dumbness, Conan may enter into the organisation in the near future.(Positive Point WRT Conan ie)

Feel free to go against me(which makes it interesting) or with me. Convey your thoughts sensibly if you can.

PS--i dont know why Moonlight Magician thinks that without Vodka, Gin cant kill people as he wont have a driver..Gin knows to drive and he has been shown driving..

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After going through almost 630 episodes of Detective Conan, i have always wondered how Vodka got into the Black Organisation, taking in consideration his qualities.

Question

Do you think that Vodka is the lamest member of the Organisation, or is he a very important part of the Organisation?

My answer: Yes, he is lame.

He's just a sidekick who is mostly seen with Gin, driving the Porche. Neither is he intelligent(Can be proved if you have watched Contact with the Black Organisation Arc), nor does he have the "BO appearance"(Which Tequila has). If only Vodka and Tequila could switch places. 

He easily fell pray to Conan's traps. He let Ai escape due to distraction. He is nothing without Gin. He is easy going and trusting, bad oberservant and even once goes off-course from the Organisation's orders.

Only positive point i see is that, due to his dumbness, Conan may enter into the organisation in the near future.(Positive Point WRT Conan ie)

Feel free to go against me(which makes it interesting) or with me. Convey your thoughts sensibly if you can.

PS--i dont know why Moonlight Magician thinks that without Vodka, Gin cant kill people as he wont have a driver..Gin knows to drive and he has been shown driving..

LOL...

Who knows...

We don't know everything about Vodka right? :mrgreen:

There has to be a valuable reason why he's a member of the Black Organization...

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Gin doesn't remember faces and doesn't seem to follow the news (red shirts post Teito bank heist). Basically Vodka makes up for Gin's weak points which means he is useful.

Also keep in mind Vodka is Gin's secretary. Presumably that means he helps make sure Gin's orders get relayed out to the right parties and coordinates people, but how many secretaries do you know who can also successfully participate in missions, run a blackmail, and shoot a gun semi accurately? (Please note an anime botch: in the manga version of Shiho case, Vodka pretty accurately shoots at adult height where Conan is standing behind the door - in the anime Vodka looks like an idiot because the animators mistook the drawings of the muzzle flash for wall impacts)

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^This

I can't add anything, and he took what I was going to say. Though I wouldn't have said secretary. I would think he is closer to a personal assistant.

I'd also like to note that there may be other things that may make him useful to the BO aside from being there to fill in the gaps for Gin. I'm pretty certain just being able to fill in the gaps for Gin is not enough to earn a code name. You seem to need to be completely proficient in something extremely useful. We know they give them to snipers, scientists, assassins, and disguise (granted she probably had a code name BEFORE that). While it is possible that they gave it to Vodka for being a top notch gun wielding secretary/personal assistant, I don't buy it.

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Lamest member = Rikumichi

Not really..He did an important job of locating Kir.

Gin doesn't remember faces and doesn't seem to follow the news (red shirts post Teito bank heist). Basically Vodka makes up for Gin's weak points which means he is useful.

Also keep in mind Vodka is Gin's secretary. Presumably that means he helps make sure Gin's orders get relayed out to the right parties and coordinates people, but how many secretaries do you know who can also successfully participate in missions, run a blackmail, and shoot a gun semi accurately? (Please note an anime botch: in the manga version of Shiho case, Vodka pretty accurately shoots at adult height where Conan is standing behind the door - in the anime Vodka looks like an idiot because the animators mistook the drawings of the muzzle flash for wall impacts)

Agreed that Vodka makes up for Gin's weak point. But is that why Anokata recruited him into BO? I think not. A member of Black Organisation must have a speacial quality in him. Everyone know how smart Gin is. Vermouth is talented in disguises. Chianti and Korn are good Snipers. Bourbon is a very sharp Detective..What is Vodka then? He may have some talent, but looking at him currently, it dosent look so..Looks can be deceptive, i know, but i wont buy it..

As for your second paragraph, i would rather say that Tequila would be a better secretary/personel assistant than Vodka.

Without Gin, Vodka could have been easily caught by now which would have resulted in exposure of Black Organisation. Considering the stern and ruthless attitude of Tequila towards Conan, he could be a better member than Vodka theoretically.

I'd also like to note that there may be other things that may make him useful to the BO aside from being there to fill in the gaps for Gin. I'm pretty certain just being able to fill in the gaps for Gin is not enough to earn a code name. You seem to need to be completely proficient in something extremely useful. We know they give them to snipers, scientists, assassins, and disguise (granted she probably had a code name BEFORE that). While it is possible that they gave it to Vodka for being a top notch gun wielding secretary/personal assistant, I don't buy it.

Exactly my point.

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My current theory is that Vodka has an eidetic memory. He isn't exactly a secretary or personal assistant, rather than a compendium of information that the BO can use and call upon. He was placed with the #1 assassin to keep tabs on all the people that Gin has killed in case a problem arises with killing said person and the BO needs to deal with it. If Gin cannot remember the conditions and the reasons and the circumstances of the person's death that could cause problems. He may not see a use for remembering but I'm sure Anokata does.

Consider this... Gin has supposedly killed so many people, and likely Vodka was with him the entire time. We know that a decent amount of time has passed and Gin has killed several people since killing Kudo, and yet Vodka was able to remember the exact moment, what happened, what time of day, and the method of killing Kudo.

Likely it extends past this. It is possible that he has other knowledge as well that would be needed by the BO. He was given a gun, training and placed with the #1 assassin. And the mere fact that we know that Vodka is not always with Gin means that Vodka is sometimes elsewhere on assignment, possibly by Gin's or Anokata's orders. He doesn't seem to have much common sense, but he appears to have an eidetic memory. I'm not sure what else he knows, but it can be assumed that it is more than the average person landing him in his current position.

Further to support this is that Gin does the killing, Vodka does the deals. He did the exchange at the amusement park and he was the person talking with Itakura about the program. He doesn't keep a log of anything it seems and yet he remembers the details and the conditions of all the deals. In this instance, Gin is actually aiding Vodka who doesn't know how to watch his back (like at the amusement park and at the drop off location for the program).

The only problem with Vodka is that he doesn't have as much common sense. But as Chek said, we know he has a good shot. I would say that he was the getaway diver, but that wouldn't make sense since he is always with Gin when Gin kills.

In fact, if he was simply proficient at bartering and making deals that could very well be the reason he gained a code name and was placed with Gin. Gin gets assignments to kill, and Vodka gets assignments to make deals. If a deal fails, it is likely Gin's job to finish the person off (and to make sure that Vodka doesn't expose them). No one else seems to make extortion deals or contact people outside of the Org for things other than Vodka. Vermouth has only been shown killing and assuming the identity of people, Gin has only been shown killing, the scientists only do science, Anokata remains in the shadows and dictates orders, the snipers snipe, so who extorts and makes deals for the benefit of the BO? Vodka. Would make sense.

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My current theory is that Vodka has an eidetic memory. He isn't exactly a secretary or personal assistant, rather than a compendium of information that the BO can use and call upon. He was placed with the #1 assassin to keep tabs on all the people that Gin has killed in case a problem arises with killing said person and the BO needs to deal with it. If Gin cannot remember the conditions and the reasons and the circumstances of the person's death that could cause problems. He may not see a use for remembering but I'm sure Anokata does.

Consider this... Gin has supposedly killed so many people, and likely Vodka was with him the entire time. We know that a decent amount of time has passed and Gin has killed several people since killing Kudo, and yet Vodka was able to remember the exact moment, what happened, what time of day, and the method of killing Kudo.

Likely it extends past this. It is possible that he has other knowledge as well that would be needed by the BO. He was given a gun, training and placed with the #1 assassin. And the mere fact that we know that Vodka is not always with Gin means that Vodka is sometimes elsewhere on assignment, possibly by Gin's or Anokata's orders. He doesn't seem to have much common sense, but he appears to have an eidetic memory. I'm not sure what else he knows, but it can be assumed that it is more than the average person landing him in his current position.

Further to support this is that Gin does the killing, Vodka does the deals. He did the exchange at the amusement park and he was the person talking with Itakura about the program. He doesn't keep a log of anything it seems and yet he remembers the details and the conditions of all the deals. In this instance, Gin is actually aiding Vodka who doesn't know how to watch his back (like at the amusement park and at the drop off location for the program).

The only problem with Vodka is that he doesn't have as much common sense. But as Chek said, we know he has a good shot. I would say that he was the getaway diver, but that wouldn't make sense since he is always with Gin when Gin kills.

In fact, if he was simply proficient at bartering and making deals that could very well be the reason he gained a code name and was placed with Gin. Gin gets assignments to kill, and Vodka gets assignments to make deals. If a deal fails, it is likely Gin's job to finish the person off (and to make sure that Vodka doesn't expose them). No one else seems to make extortion deals or contact people outside of the Org for things other than Vodka. Vermouth has only been shown killing and assuming the identity of people, Gin has only been shown killing, the scientists only do science, Anokata remains in the shadows and dictates orders, the snipers snipe, so who extorts and makes deals for the benefit of the BO? Vodka. Would make sense.

Agreed that Vodka made the deals like calling the professor(who got murdered) during "Girl From Black Organisation" special episode or while Contact with the BO arc. But so did Tequila. I would point out that Tequila would make a better dealer than Vodka. It is also possible that Vodka is just a new member gaining experience from Gin.

Vodka sure does play some part i agree, but is he irreplacable? What theories can you make of his talent?

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Agreed that Vodka made the deals like calling the professor(who got murdered) during "Girl From Black Organisation" special episode or while Contact with the BO arc. But so did Tequila. I would point out that Tequila would make a better dealer than Vodka. It is also possible that Vodka is just a new member gaining experience from Gin.

Vodka sure does play some part i agree, but is he irreplacable? What theories can you make of his talent?

Three things... 1) Tequila is no more. 2) The BO probably needs several of each profession. It is highly unlikely that they would have only one of any person... The only possibility for that is the detective person, which is Bourbon. Everyone else there seem to be two or more. 3) And that is exactly why I made a point to say it seems like he has an eidetic memory. Tequila was smart and could make deals, but that doesn't really hold up to one person being a compendium of useful information. So even if we assume that he is new and was placed with Gin to train, there must be a reason why he has been there for so long, and why it seems like he isn't going anywhere, but still has a code name and ability to make deals and meetings on his own. He has a certain degree of freedom, but is still with Gin a majority of the time.

And having an eidetic memory is pretty irreplaceable. Most people don't have it, and they tend to be extremely smart with small details. If that is the reason why he was given a code name and trained in deal making to be placed as Gin's partner. I would totally understand.

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I'd say he's arguably the more reckless member still around (With Pisco having been killed).

And to add to that, Shinichi likely wouldn't have been caught and fed the Apotoxin had it just been Vodka. For that matter, he was about to shoot him despite cops being close by from the roller coaster case.

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This topic = </3.

Its a small discussion. Logical and quite apt. Nothing wrong in it.

I'd say he's arguably the more reckless member still around (With Pisco having been killed).

Yes, he is a reckless member, which could be threat to the Organisation in near future.

If he has a eidetic memory, still, he is the most vunerable member which makes him quite lame.

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Its a small discussion. Logical and quite apt. Nothing wrong in it.

Yes, he is a reckless member, which could be threat to the Organisation in near future.

If he has a eidetic memory, still, he is the most vunerable member which makes him quite lame.

Let's be fair here... He is likely not the lamest... He is the most vulnerable member that we know about. We know he is proficient with guns, and that he is actually good at making deals.

There are likely other members who are lamer than he is that we don't know about. I bet you could find at least 3 in the science division. We were lucky and got the awesome Shiho.

But of those that we know about, and are confirmed... I'd agree that he is worse off. Though his abilities landed him a code name and rank, and it seems at least some freedom (though not much) Gin still seems to view him as a liability at times. However, Gin also trusts him to do reconnaissance on Vermouth on the Halloween boat thingy. I don't know... There has to be more to Vodka than what we have seen so far. Even past my suppositions. (at least I hope)

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Vodka is Anokata... Just saying... :D

There is a possibility, but...

I doubt that XD

---------

Does anyone have the feeling that Gin is actually pretty protective of Vodka, as compared to the rest of the BO members??? Even though on the surface it seems like Vodka is pretty useless, Gin doesn't seem to think so. Maybe the reason he got a codename, is because of that unknown reason? Or perhaps he is loyal? hmmmm....

Anyway, I do agree that it is an asset to have someone with a good memory in the team. Everyone in the BO has different purpose and assume different roles for the organization. It doesn't mean that a person is useless if he cannot fight or defend himself. I think, as long as someone is able to fulfill their role perfectly, I don't think BO has any reason not to include them in their team. The reason that Gin was with Vodka was probably due to the fact that vodka is not very smart and might need someone to take care of him.

One might think that Tequila may be much better at making deals or know more information than Vodka and think that Tequila maybe much more suitable to take on Vodka's role, but somehow, the organization does not seem to think so. There must be a reason for this.

Since everything is only based on assumptions, assuming that Vodka has no skills and that he is lame because he is not too smart is a little too biased.

In my own opinion, I suppose the most useless people in the BO are the snipers or the killers. There are just too many of them that losing one wouldn't affect them too much. Rather than the people who actually deal with people, and use their brains, those who only know how to shoot are much less useful. Gin can shoot pretty well too. Does that mean the rest of the snipers can be taken off the team? This actually makes Vodka a pretty important member. You don't see anyone doing stuff like what Vodka does.

=\

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I have two theories on why Vodka has a codename and yet seems so lame.

1. This is another one of those literary devices and elements that Gosho has thrown in the DC franchise. My theory is that Gosho thought it was fitting to have the two original "bad guys" of DC be opposites. As we all know, in literature, opposites either attract or repel. In this case, they attract. Gin is tall, on the skinny side, has long hair, and is cunning. Vodka is a little shorter, on the fat side, has extremely short hair, and is mentally dull. Gosho probably just wanted to make it a harmless effect of "opposite bad guys". If you look carefully at many other series and movies and books with two main evil antagonists, you'll find that they usually contrast each other.

2. My other theory is that Vodka probably saved Gin's skin at one time or another. I'm betting on this scenario: The two happened to be working together on some project, and they got into a tight situation. Vodka might have either risk his life or sent one lucky bullet into someone saving Gin in the nick of time. The Organization was so grateful for still having a member like Gin alive and promoted Vodka up to his current status. Gin, equally as grateful for still being alive, continued to partner up with Vodka on future missions and became fond of the dull minded man.

If anyone has anything to add, please feel free.

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Well here are some of my theories

1)As we all know, every element on this Earth has a weak point where their enemies can strike hard. In case of Black Organisation, its Vodka. I think Gosho introduced him so that Conan could use him to bring down the Organisation in the future. Vodka being more vunerable, could be easily tricked. I think thats why he was introduced. But then, how he got his codename is debatable.

2)Meitantei Holmes said above, he might have saved Gin or probably Anokata in a tight situation becasue of which probably, Anokata recruited him and sent him under Gin to get experience. Probably, when he saved Anokata, he could just be a stranger to the organisation.

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Maybe Vodka is of some relation to Anotaka or of relation to a high ranking agent either still present or deceased. Perhaps he did save Gin or another high ranking member at one time. Maybe it really is about his memory since he can remember exact detail of times and dates [such as said before Shinichi's "killing"] With that he could be used for mostly information gathering. As for him being the lamest I don't think he is. There are some member that are of no real use and I think the true threat for the B.O. is Vermouth for she knows who Conan an Ai really is but has not told anyone, In the end I think she will betray the B.O. for some reason or another where as it seems Vodka has a lot of loyalty for the B.O.

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I have two theories on why Vodka has a codename and yet seems so lame.

1. This is another one of those literary devices and elements that Gosho has thrown in the DC franchise. My theory is that Gosho thought it was fitting to have the two original "bad guys" of DC be opposites. As we all know, in literature, opposites either attract or repel. In this case, they attract. Gin is tall, on the skinny side, has long hair, and is cunning. Vodka is a little shorter, on the fat side, has extremely short hair, and is mentally dull. Gosho probably just wanted to make it a harmless effect of "opposite bad guys". If you look carefully at many other series and movies and books with two main evil antagonists, you'll find that they usually contrast each other.

2. My other theory is that Vodka probably saved Gin's skin at one time or another. I'm betting on this scenario: The two happened to be working together on some project, and they got into a tight situation. Vodka might have either risk his life or sent one lucky bullet into someone saving Gin in the nick of time. The Organization was so grateful for still having a member like Gin alive and promoted Vodka up to his current status. Gin, equally as grateful for still being alive, continued to partner up with Vodka on future missions and became fond of the dull minded man.

If anyone has anything to add, please feel free.

Like a reverse of Holmes and Watson except evil....

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Vodka is important to the Black Organization. Why?

It is already presented at the very first episode of DC. the amusement park deal that Vodka initiated was at the brink of failure, with Shinichi noticing the deal. Of course, Gin did hit Shinichi on his back and made him take the 'incomplete detective' medicine Gin has.

After that, we can notice that the person that Vodka's dealing with ran off. Knowing BO being a confidential organization, letting that old man run away would be dangerous. With all the murder Gin did to his co-members (Pisco, the two accomplice of Miyano Akemi in the billion dollar case, etc.), a failure that Vodka did must have resulted to him being silenced.

But gin didn't killed him. Why? We don't know. But, for a certain reason, this proves that Vodka is somewhat important to the organization.

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