Magic Kaito timeline
In the general interest of people wondering about this it is stated in V16-6, chapter 156, or anime ep 76, that Kaito Kid (Kuroba Kaito) reappeared two years ago and the original Kaito Kid (Kuroba Toichi) disappeared 10 years ago. Agasa reading the information about Kid to Conan says, "Shinichi-kun, I have compiled some information from your father's files and the recent newspapers, but Kaitou 1412 still seems to be shrouded by mystery. He first appeared 18 years ago in Paris. Ten years later, he suddenly disappeared, and many said he passed away. However, now, eight years later [i.e. two years ago], he has resurrected and is now mostly active in Japan." Chekhov MacGuffin talk 23:52, 10 April 2011 (UTC)
As you said, in V16-6, chapter 156, or anime ep 76, that Agasa said, "Shinichi-kun, I have compiled some information from your father's files and the recent newspapers, but Kaitou 1412 still seems to be shrouded by mystery. He first appeared 18 years ago in Paris. Ten years later, he suddenly disappeared, and many said he passed away. However, now, eight years later, he has resurrected and is now mostly active in Japan".
Kid first appeared 18 years ago. Ten years later [i.e. 8 years ago] he suddently disappeared. He has "resurrected" eight years later, i.e. eight years after his disappearence eight years ago, i.e. few months ago. Read also the following evidence:
-All MK chapters take place in a short amount of time, since charcacters always attend the second year of high school. Kaito has only a year left to find Pandora and in DC he is still after it.
-In Kid's debut in DC, in the end, both Kaito and Aoko have Ekoda High school uniform, meaning that they haven't gradueated yet.
-Hakuba is 17 in both Dc appearences, as aspected from a second grader.
-In volume 4 of MK, the frame of chapters 3-4 is set simultaneously of Kid's debut in DC, while the flashback is set when Shinichi is already famous, just before he was shrunk.
Bye. --220.127.116.11 09:12, 11 April 2011 (UTC)
I think it's alright to have the page named as "Timeline" instead of "Detective Conan timeline". The Magic Kaito timeline can be overlapped/merged to the DC one like we started doing already. But, as a DC wiki by "default", it's alright to say "Timeline" only as it's already implied it's DC-related. If we want to make a specific Magic Kaito timeline in the future, we can create a separate "Magic Kaito timeline" page. It's like how we have Volume 1-10 and Magic Kaito Volume 1-5. I was also thinking of adding a "Timeline" link in the sidebar under the "detective conan" section. --Maurice 14:15, 11 April 2011 (UTC)
In the 21-30 years ago section, it says Rena Mizunashi's birth was 27 years ago (which matches the number in her page), but then again Hidemi Hondou is said to be born 25 years ago. So which data is the accurate one? If both numbers are mentioned in the series, then there's only one of them is true (which I think we should keep), and the other one was made up to cover her identity.
By the way, I don't think saying "birth of Rena Mizunashi" makes much sense because this person never existed in the first place. But that's another story. (Which reminds me, we should also do something about "birth of Subaru Okiya" when he's officially revealed to be Akai.) --- BLACK DEMON | Reply 22:25, 12 May 2013 (PDT)
- Delete the 25. My guess is that it is a left over error and Hidemi and Rena are both 27. That should be verified. Akai could be lying about his age as Okiya, so there is no real point in having it now even though I think that Akai probably used his real age. Regarding Shiratori I looked for a source and didn't see any. I'm guessing thats about right though considering his age when he met Koboyashi in the store in the paper flower chain and theater case. Chekhov MacGuffin talk 11:20, 13 May 2013 (PDT)
Rum arc – Manga starting point
This page has 898 as the beginning of the Rum arc because Rum is first mentioned here, correct?
898 is part of Scarlet Showdown, along with 894, 895, 896 and 897; 898 is not listed as it's own case, right? So the case of Scarlet Showdown is considered to be both the end of one arc and the beginning of another? 898 seems far more tied to the Bourbon arc than to the Rum arc—it's mostly talking about what just happened in 894-897, and Rum isn't mentioned until the last page, making only 1/16th of the file actually about Rum—so why isn't 899 considered the beginning of the Rum arc?
And, if 898 is considered the beginning of the Rum arc, then why isn't 242 considered the beginning of the Vermouth arc?
- Remember these are all fan created breaks. It seems that they are considering Scarlet Epilogue as its own case and counting the first chapter of the case that the BO member is first mentioned as the beginning of the arc. 238 was the first chapter of Reunion with the BO, 499 was the first chapter of Kir's appearance, 622 was the first chapter of the case Bourbon was mentioned, and Scarlet epilogue was the first chapter Rum was mentioned. The case starting with 899 doesn't have any mention of Rum directly.
- 238-242 is the case that introduces Vermouth, but Chris Vineyard appears half way through 239
- 499 is a case on its own and introduces Kir, but not by name until 500
- 622-624 just so happens to have Bourbon mentioned at the beginning of the first chapter of the case
- 898 is a case on its own and mentions Rum at the end of the chapter.
- Arguably for me the Vermouth arc ends with the Halloween party case and the Butt Mark case where Jodie is in the hospital and offering Haibara Witness protection is just a carry over, just like how I'd argue that the Kir arc ends with Akai being shot and Kir returning to the BO, and the whole Eisuke case in the karaoke box is just a carry over that happens in the next arc. The plot of the Kir arc had ended and went back to normal cases.
- "238 was the first chapter of Reunion with the BO"
- And the name Vermouth wasn't mentioned until 242. What I'm getting at with that is if the specific file that the arc's titular character is introduced is the start of their arc (which is why the beginning of the Rum arc is considered to be 898, right?), then the Vermouth arc should begin at 242. Rum has FAR less involvement in Scarlet Showdown than Vermouth does in Reunion with the Black Organization—yet, Rum's arc begins with the first mention of him, and Vermouth's begins with 238, before she appears or is even mentioned.
- Ultimately, my issue is that the Rum arc's manga beginning considered to be 898 instead of 899. I'm fine with the manga beginning of the Vermouth arc being 238. I'm just asking, that, if the Rum arc's beginning is considered to be 898, then the beginning of the Vermouth arc should be changed to 242.
- Scarlet Showdown is—save for Page 16 of 898—a Bourbon arc case. Reunion with the Black Organization, again, has Vermouth playing a key role in it—she actually physically appears in the case. It makes far more sense for Reunion with the Black Organization to be a Vermouth arc case than for Scarlet Showdown to be a Rum arc case (it has to be if a file in it is considered the beginning of the Rum arc).
- It just seems weird that a Bourbon arc case has a file within it that is considered the beginning of a completely different arc. Thus, Scarlet Showdown is, at the same time, both the end of the Bourbon arc and the beginning of the Rum arc—no other case in DC is both the beginning of one arc and the end of another, simultaneously.
- "Vermouth arc... Butt Mark case where Jodie is in the hospital and offering Haibara Witness protection is just a carry over [...] Kir arc... the whole Eisuke case in the karaoke box is just a carry over that happens in the next arc."
- Yeah, there's an inconsistency in the timeline, here, too.
- For the Vermouth arc, the timeline agrees with your view, but not so with the Kir arc... and yet both Ai Haibara's Resolution (File 435–File 437/Episode 346–Episode 347) and The Karaoke Box Murder (File 619–File 621/Episode 507–Episode 508) fall in the same boat.
- I'd argue, since right after the Vermouth arc comes the Cell Phone arc, that Ai Haibara's Resolution be the end of the Vermouth arc, and the next case, The Forgotten Cell Phone (File 438–File 440/Episode 350–Episode 351), should be the beginning of the Cell Phone arc.
- I'd also argue that The Karaoke Box Murder (File 619–File 621/Episode 507–Episode 508) should be the end of the Kir arc, since Bourbon still hadn't been mentioned, at that point.
- Another thing—what about the Bourbon arc being the only one with parts (Sherry and Shuichi Akai parts)? Is there a reason the other arcs don't have parts?
- @"What I'm getting at with that is if the specific file that the arc's titular character is introduced is the start of their arc" ---> Picking out the arc start file is chosen by what feels right rather than any ruleset. Remember that these arc divisions are created by fans for their own convenience, so it only makes sense to choose convenient files to start and end them. It's silly to over-complicate it by rules-lawyering when things should start. The best solution is simple and is commonly used fan discussion.
- The Bourbon arc is divided into parts because A) It's really long B) There was a pretty big paradigm shift in the structure and focus of the arc after Bourbon was revealed. "Before and after the mystery train" is also a commonly used fan division.
- I would be for making the last case in the Vermouth arc the decline of the witness protection program.
- Chekhov MacGuffin talk 10:00, 29 September 2016 (CEST)
- "Picking out the arc start file is chosen by what feels right rather than any ruleset."
- And you know what "feels right" to me ("feels right" is, by definition, subjective territory)? Not having 898 as the start of the Rum arc, when only one page of the file has anything to do with Rum, and the other 15 have far more to do with Bourbon. No other case in DC is both beginning of one arc and end of another—why isn't Episode 783 considered both the beginning of the Rum arc and the end of the Bourbon arc? The anime has the Rum arc begin the episode after 783—I'd like that to be the case for the manga, as well.
- And if people look at my argument and say its a load, and that, for instance, it doesn't matter that 898 only focuses on Rum for 1/16th of it, then that's that.