[SPOILER DISCUSSION] File 872-875 (Red Woman)

[Black Demon 466]

THIS THREAD is used to discuss about SPOILERS. In other words, if you only read the English version and wish to wait for the official release instead of getting spoiled, this is NOT the right place for you!
 
RULES OF THE SPOILER-ONLY DISCUSSION THREAD:
 
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2. Any kind of discussion involving the spoilers must be posted HERE. Please DO NOT reveal, give hints or talk about any information or event (that has not yet happened in the English releases) at the thread made for English-files readers only, in ANY form (NOT even in spoiler boxes).
 
3. Despite being a Spoiler-only thread, EVERY spoiler and discussion involving events that has not yet happened in the English releases STILL has to be put inside Spoiler boxes. When the mentioned file is officially released in English, this is not necessary anymore.
 
4. NO DIRECT LINK to Original Japanese scans (RAWs) or to ANY English manga scan because we don't want to have any problem with lawyers. (Japanese spoiler pictures are allowed as long as the amount and quality of which are very very far away from a full scan, like the ones we usually have).
 
Q&A:

1. Why is this whole thing necessary?
A: Please click here.
 
2. Why do I still have to use Spoiler boxes here?
A: In case some member (who only follows the English files) get confused, misclick, or just simply get in the wrong thread... etc., this rule is made NOT to let spoilers get revealed to them. And since this is quite complicated, confusions are unavoidable, especially for new members.
 
3. How do I use Spoiler boxes anyway?
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[spoiler]Text you want to write[/spoiler]

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Step 3: Enter the text that you want to put inside Spoiler boxes, then click OK.

 
4. If the spoiler is not obvious enough to viewers (e.g. one must click a link in order to see it), do I have to use Spoiler boxes?
A: No, using link addresses is also a hiding method. Again the purpose of this is just to protect the spoilers and info. from being viewed by members who do not want to see them (but get in here by accident). However, you should STATE CLEARLY that it's a spoiler, just to make sure.
 
5. Can I join the discussion in the other thread as well?
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6. Who are you anyway? Why do we have to follow YOUR rules?
A: Not mine. Chek suggested that it should be this way. Also, the person who create the threads must write the rules clearly on the very first post from now on, whether they want it or not; this applies to every member (not only me).

 
ANYWAY, everyone should read this whole post carefully before posting or viewing anything. If you are mistaken for not paying attention to it, the creator of the thread, the moderators and every other forum members will NOT take any responsibility.
 

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872 will mention something about...

Sera's family

That's all I know for now.

 

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872 Chinese: http://tieba.baidu.com/p/2590105568

 

Some brief summaries and translations:

About Sera's family (by Conan#1):

 

Page 3: Sera said her elder, second brothers and herself had different surname, their father is dead due to some reason, "Sera" is their mother's surname, her second brother's surname is Sera until graduated from high school. Then Conan and Sera reacted when Sonoko said "red" (same Japanese words as Akai).

 

About the case:

• 15 years ago, there was a woman who killed her husband but was not arrested.
• She was nicknamed "Red woman" since her body was covered with blood during the stabbing.
• 3 years later, a girl from their group went missing and was found dead, and they suspected it to be the Red woman's doing.
• And then strange things kept happening in the villa, and they always had something to do with the color "red", like apples were found in a room, or the door was painted red etc...
• This time, the bathtub with the body was filled with....... tomatoes.

[Balthazar Manfredie 225]

This chapter looks interesting (case and plot progression that is )

Finally something to look forward to, the previous ones were bad. 

[ThatLee4 10]

I wish Gosho would speed up the the plot progression as there are so many things to clear up, that we probably forgotten some of them. And the random murders are just stupid and boring. Have nothing to do with the plot (i think) and does not even build tension effectivley anymore. Just lack of interest tbh. Wanna know bout Kir and her brother in USA, Akai, Sera's other bro, silverbullet, Sherry x Gin, Vermont's MO, Borbon's info from Jodey, Date (KG), the computer programme, aim of the pill, Heiji x Kazuha. I just want more action. I think like how Attack on Titan has real tension with a slow day progression but loads of plot related info and a good level of action and no fillers. I think Detctive Conan episodes should be like that, with cliff hangers to keep up intrest but still make long. Coz i know Gosho wants it to last long to break a record and get money for long to retire on.

[Balthazar Manfredie 225]

If he starts to tie loos ends he would have a good 2-3 years of conan left.

His recent files, most of them, are good but not great (maybe there is one or two as an exception)

And he should stop putting cats in his files. When they are in it, and the case revolves around the cat, the whole file becomes stupid

[ThatLee4 10]

Never said he needs to tie up loose ends as i kinda never want Detective Conan to finish. Buthe should just focus on the main plor. Not fillers. And if not make the random cases more varied, like robberies, fraud, hits, drug pushing, kidnapping etc. And for God's sake. Please prevent the crimes from happening. If his such a good detective

[Black Demon 466]

873 Chinese: http://tieba.baidu.com/p/2606322563

[Jim Jimenez 0]

You know nosebleed again when conan see again ran naked chap 873 page 5

[Balthazar Manfredie 225]

Is that Yui Uehara

[Black Demon 466]

Is that Yui Uehara

Yep.

[Chekhov MacGuffin 1089]

The tomatoes were made to float using bath salt which increases the density of the water. Similar techniques are used in fruit factories which convey fruit in water so they aren't bruised: http://postharvest.tfrec.wsu.edu/pages/J4I1D

Also Oldbag

[Chekhov MacGuffin 1089]

So here it what I have so far starting with the red woman 15 years ago.

Kansuke and Koumei found out by questioning a policeman that he made an error in the case reports. The red woman threw the knife at him in the woods. He continued chasing her, she disappeared, but when he went back for the knife it wasn't there anymore. 3 years later, it was found in very good, non-rusted condition, next to the pond Satoko drowned in with the skeleton of the person who fell in around the time of the red woman attack. Before she drowned Satoko had earlier claimed to have seen the red woman. She was wearing a beige outfit at that time. When her body was found, she was wearing a red coat, and her shoes were nearby. That leads to one reasonable conclusion: Satoko had the knife from three years ago (she took it which explains why it was not rusted out), pretended to see the red woman, dressed up in red, and took off her shoes. She was obviously pretending to play a prank on someone.

It must have backfired on her. In the first chapter of this case, when Ran described the Red woman that she saw, Hakuya thought it was Satoko. That means he was likely the intended victim of Satoko's prank and accidentally killed her, perhaps by knocking her into the bog or throwing something at her so she lost footing like Conan did.

Someone figured out Hakuya killed Satoko, which explains why he became the recent victim. However since Hakuya only just revealed himself, the murder could not have been premeditated. The tomato trick was planned though, like the other pranks that had happened earlier. Since the murderer used the tomato trick as part of the murder, I assumed they also planned the tomato prank. The motive should be either continuing Satoko's pranks, or they were hoping to get someone to confess something.

Based on the fact the murder was not premeditated, it was almost certainly committed by one of the two in the house. That person would need confront the victim to verify the story about Satoko first before committing the murder.

Based on the layout - access to the bathroom where Hakuya works from her cleaning area - Sumiko is the most suspicious. She probably pre-prepared her cleaning chore so she could have extra time to set up the tomato trick. (Maybe she came to the villa in advance or started early.) Everyone has the same chores every year so it's easy to know what they will be asked to do. Sumiko turns on the fan so it is loud and sets it to swivel near a wall. She tapes the bat to the fan so that it bonks periodically and sounds like a vaccuum session in progress.

The trick with the tub has a few possibilities. The water is pretty opaque and there are side areas in the tub you could corral the tomatoes in. If the water is really opaque and not well mixed the culprit could just pour the salt on the bottom. If it is not well mixed, it will create a layer of salt water with a thick layer of fresh on top. The tomatoes won't rise until the salt becomes better mixed throughout the bath.

Sumiko was later attacked by someone who looks like the red woman.

The real red woman is apparently dead: the skeleton was 3 years old, matching the time of the original attacks by The Red Woman Takeno Komayo. The skeleton also genetically matched to a piece of saved umbilical cord that Takeno's mother had.

The red woman who attacked Sumiko may not have been a random murder, or revenge for Hakuya, but instead was one of the housemates trying to remove suspicion from Sumiko by making it appear there is an outsider doing the attacks. Maybe there was something one of the housemates saw that made that person realize that Sumiko was responsible for the tomatoes and thus the murder. Attacking her and giving her a superficial injury would make her seem less suspicious and redirect police attention to outside culprits.

Who is the current red lady?

Why was Hakuya in the bog? Changing clothes? Pretending to be the red lady? Looking to recover evidence like the wig Satoko should have been wearing?

And who's the skeleton? Are we sure it's the dead Red Lady?

[Black Demon 466]

875 Chinese: http://tieba.baidu.com/p/2631564134

 

At the end of the case, Sera asked Conan to help her find her phone. Conan found it and suspected that she purposely let him see the image on her phone, which apparently features Sera and a kid (gender unknown, but Conan thinks that she's a girl, the kid's also referred to as "the mysterious girl" on the last page side-note.)

 

[Balthazar Manfredie 225]

Got to admit

did not expect this development 

[Chekhov MacGuffin 1089]

Here is the translation of the panels courtesy Fujiwara

Note lots of people think the child is actually a boy, not a girl like Conan thinks. It would be fitting considering he was also mistaken about Sera.

Regarding the little mystery kid there seems to be two major lines of thought:

#1 The girl in the picture is Sera, and the kid is a relative. Sera didn't say she had any additional family members beyond her parents (her father is dead), herself, and her two brothers (872 pg 3) so the child must be related to someone in her family. The middle brother is old enough to have a kid of that apparent age. Another option would be that Sera's mom remarried after her first husband died, and had another child which Sera doesn't consider to be one of her siblings for some reason.

#2 The girl in the picture is Sera's mom (Who looks a lot like Sera!), and the child is Akai. The child is distinctly not smiling and its face is identical to Akai's. Sera's mom appears not to be chesty, but maybe she was a late bloomer? It makes sense in that Sera might be trying to hint to Conan her family's identity, especially after Conan was poking around the issue in 872. If the child is Akai, maybe he dyed his long blond hair black later? Do note that Char Aznable has long and blond hair with a very similar hairstyle to the child's. For picture comparisons, see the spoiler box below.

...

[ALAKTORN 170]

^I like your second theory

[ThatLee4 10]

I think the photo is of Sera and her mother. Who Conan is meant to know from meeting Sera before with Ran. I aay this as the person has the same eye thing going on as Akia and Sera. But i think the twist is that Subaru is not Akia in desguise but Akia and Sera's older brother. As the "mother" has light hair, maybe like Subaru. Because i think we worked out who Borbon and Akia were too easy. And Subaru has not been confirmed to be Akia. Just hinted at. Shuukichi is to throw us off a bit. But where is Akai for real then?

Or maybe he (Akia) is in hiding as his older brother. As i still have to consider his relationship hints with Ai