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Shuukichi Haneda Discussion Thread

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This is an overly literal meaning of the word wizard. Are you maybe not a native English speaker? "Wizard" in English not only refers to the magical being that performs sorcery, but it can also refer to someone who highly skilled and can put on a performance. A math wizard is someone who solves difficult equations with grace and style, almost like they have magical insight. (Wizard also has this double meaning in Japanese as far as my dictionary tells me. There is a Professor Layton vs Ace Attorney soundtrack title for when Phoenix is stomping somebody in the courtroom called "The Courtroom's Magician." Masumi is an English speaker anyway.) When Shinichi used "Shiranpuri" in Red vs. Black to make everyone but the culprit sit down, you can call that moment a "spell" from a detective wizard. Shinichi also has the habit of turning the culprit's tricks into his own performances like they are acts in a magic show, like having Takagi hide invisibly in a pool and then suddenly appear on command, or make Sera appear from a chest of fruits. Wizard absolutely fits Shinichi's "explain the trick, reveal the culprit" style, especially if you are an impressionable child like Masumi. With the right sort of trick in the past case of waves, I can definitely see Shinichi doing something that appears to be magical to show the truth."

 

Firstly, I am a native English speaker. Second, when I think DC and wizard/magician, I think Kaitou Kid or Akako, not Shinichi. When I think of incredible skill, I think prodigy or genius—I've heard of the "wiz/wizard" term, certainly, but it's not something that I've personally used (not in recent memory, at least). Nevertheless, your point is well taken—Shinichi doesn't think himself a wizard/magician, but the way he reveals things likely made others (especially kids, like Masumi once was, when they met) think he had a magical quality to him.

 

About the rest of your post, you've made a bunch of suggestions but haven't tied them together into a coherent theory. It was like reading a stream of consciousness rather than organized thoughts. Maybe I can help you sort it out by spinning the argument around: 1) Do you have any evidence that shows Conan is not the Wizard? 2) If the Wizard is the unknown child, do each of the wizard clues and their timing make sense?

You may be a wiz in such things ;), but me? I'm not really concerned about concrete theories—not that I don't like to think of them or read yours or the theories of others—I'm just putting my thoughts and ideas out there. At least right now, I'm a stream of consciousness kind of guy—I know that's not coherent, but with as little info about the whole Akai family and their likely interactions with Shinichi and Ran in the past as ther is, all we can do right now is string together those scraps to try and make sense of things. I know that the Shinichi/Conan is the "wizard/magician" theory is one of the most sure theories we have, right now, given what you've mentioned, but I just don't buy it (not too logical of a statement to make, for sure)—the seeming arrival of MG at Masumi's apartment at the time of the middle brother's text with the PS and the possibility of MG or Shiho/Ai being who the middle brother is referring to has me in doubt of the seemingly obvious assertion that Shinichi/Conan is the "wizard/magician." I may end up being wrong, but that's the way things go, sometimes.

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Considering how young Sera looked in Ran's flashback, I doubt she cared much if Shinichi furfilled the proper definition of a wizard or a magician. Shinichi unveils a trick that amazes Sera and she calls him a wizard. She probably ran off afterwards (explaining why Ran hears waves when Sera runs off) to tell her family, probably Mary and Shuukichi with her at the beach, about the trick and didn't even ask for Shinichi's name, so she just continues to call him "The Wizard" to her family. It's not like nicknames, especially in that age, are very thought out or make much sense.

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Reposted from DCTP:

 

If Shuichi/Subaru is the middle brother, I don't think Masumi knows his secret identity.

 

The only purpose of Masumi lying about having a second brother and his description is to drag the plot (is that bad? that's up to you—plus, Gosho's been doing it for awhile). So she'd be lying to Ran, Sonoko and Yumi whenever the topic of her family, and thus, her brother, came up? This is to deceive Shinichi/Conan, mainly, right? Because he's with them? For what purpose? Did she hear Yumi talking about her boyfriend and just happen to think of a fake description that matched Yumi's description of Shukichi on the spot because Shinichi/Conan is in the room? Hadn't he already been sufficiently convinced that he had a second brother, even when she first said she had one. Other than tricking us, and shattering many head canons and rendering so much fan art non-canon, unlike what was the case with Masumi, what would be the point?

 

I know she's waiting for "the time" to come (File 846) before revealing her past connection to him and Ran, at least—her lies about MG (likely her mother) are fairly simple: just say she's in America while hiding her in her apartment... but making up a family member ex nihilo goes beyond both of those. I guess your explanation as to why mostly fits. She wouldn't know that Shinichi/Conan is working together with Shuichi/Subaru—who wouldn't tell her what he was up to or where he was, explaining those two statements of hers about him, as well as who he was working with/trusts—and thus, wouldn't have a reason to tell him who she was really talking to. Though, why would he let on that he knows Shinichi/Conan? Wouldn't that make it more likely that Masumi would find him out, which he clearly doesn't want?... though we still don't know what his response to her in File 861 consisted of. However, this is not my main problem.

 

This is a pointless mystery—all three possibilities have been zeroed in on: Shukichi, someone else who wears round glasses, has a stubble, dresses messily, and has the same favorite phrase he does, or Shuichi/Subaru—it's not suspenseful, and the plot isn't moving anywhere... it isn't even being hinted as to what this middle brother question is going to lead to. No matter who the middle brother is, we may be left, more or less, where we were when Masumi was introduced, but with Shukichi, there's a new character that'll be added to the mix—I just want him to play a role beyond being a red herring in this pointless mystery, even if he isn't the middle brother—with Shuichi/Subaru? It's even less of a change, in fact—he and Masumi still will have not talked and she will still be in the dark about the BO—essentially, the middle brother question will be even more pointless if it turns out that he's actually Shuichi/Subaru. Why create a red herring character for a situation/question that lacks the stakes of previous situations (Vermouth arc, for example), when you just could've told the readers that Masumi knew that Shuichi/Subaru was alive and was in contact with him? Again, unless Shukichi is going to be a part of the main plot, there's no Jodie option for him (government agent) as the red herring character—he's just a smart shogi player who happens to be Yumi's on-again/off-again boyfriend, and who MG and Shuichi/Subaru just happen to like so much that they, characters who are typically very serious, will get happy enough, in the former's case, to creep out Masumi. Being a fan of Bourbon isn't the same as being a fan of a Shogi player—one's a drink, an inanimate object, and the other's a person.

 

Unless involving him in the main plot was part of Gosho's game plan all along, having him turn out to be just a red herring will make this pointless mystery even more pointless, and could easily send Shukichi the way of Ariade... and that's a waste.

 

Then, from earlier today:

 

I've thought over this question, again, and it really does seem like Gosho is heading for a twist where Shukichi is revealed to be a red herring, and Shuichi/Subaru is revealed to be who Masumi's been in contact with since File 856. Masumi has no reason to tell Shinichi/Conan that she's been in contact with Shuichi—since he hasn't told her what he's up to—and the times she isn't in contact with Shuichi/Subaru (all the times outside of Steamy Relations (Files 856–858), Bumper Brawn (Files 859–861) and A Killer in Ramen Ogura (Files 928–930), where she is clearly in contact with someone) but claims to be in contact with her second brother could all be faked (texting/even calling MG, or just pretending to talk to a person over the phone). She could've made up everything about her supposed middle brother so no one questions why she's in contact with her supposedly dead brother—even the description she gave to Yumi could've been faked... she just could've been surprised because, coincidentally, her made-up description matched Yumi's real one of Shukichi.
 
I'll say it again, though—I don't like this twist. It will provide no character development or plot advancement—it'll just show that Shuichi/Subaru has been in contact with Masumi since File 856. Gosho didn't need to put this mystery in here—I'll feel better if Shukichi plays a role in the Rum arc plot, but I'll still feel sore about how Shukichi somehow isn't the middle brother... for me, at least, it fits quite well. I guess I've seen too much fan art...   -_-
 
I won't be surprised if this happens... but I'm not looking forward to it. I just hope that Gosho's pulling a "fake people out into thinking its a fake when its really not" when it comes to Shukichi being the middle brother.

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Just was wondering yesterday about this scene in which the middle brother was answering Sera's message about conan:

the back ground image looks like a blurred image of a yellow (shogi) board 

I already checked the same scene in the Manga and it just has a black background

But in my opinion ,They are aware that if you just read the manga you definitely have no reason to watch the series unless you want to see those one-episode TV originals

so there must be some extra clues put in the anime to make it more attractive to audience.

Akai_Middle_Brother%27s_hand.png

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the back ground image looks like a blurred image of a yellow (shogi) board

Might just be a table, doesn't look enough like a shogi board to me, besides I doubt the anime staff are going to add such extremely subtle clues, not many people like you find them ;)

Looking at it again, it also seems a bit too tall for a shogi board, I am sure he won't be playing while standing, also it doesn't have the place to keep captured pieces. There also seems to be something black right above the pone, on the table probably, which I guess is a coffee cup maybe.

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Just was wondering yesterday about this scene in which the middle brother was answering Sera's message about conan:

the back ground image looks like a blurred image of a yellow (shogi) board 

I already checked the same scene in the Manga and it just has a black background

But in my opinion ,They are aware that if you just read the manga you definitely have no reason to watch the series unless you want to see those one-episode TV originals

so there must be some extra clues put in the anime to make it more attractive to audience.

 

The anime staff has never thrown in extra clues

that actually help solve a case. (other than movie 18, but that is a different set of staff)

most of the time they screw things up even worse. 

For example, look at the phone in your images. Its the wrong model. 

They also color swapped Vermouth and Amuro's phones as well. 

Heck, they even made Subaru's phone white and the wrong model

 

the extra stuff that the anime adds in are content that create extra scenes

that don't add anything new to the actual series as a whole. The purpose of 

extra scenes is to extend the show to fill a time slot. 

 

People will still enjoy watching something animated even when there is no original content

The whole point is to see the characters up and moving around and speaking

you get the same amount of content without having to buy 87 volumes, or 935+ shonen sundays

you just have to tune in to the tv at 6pm on Saturday(japan time) for the rest of your life. 

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The anime staff has never thrown in extra clues

that actually help solve a case. (other than movie 18, but that is a different set of staff)

most of the time they screw things up even worse. 

For example, look at the phone in your images. Its the wrong model. 

They also color swapped Vermouth and Amuro's phones as well. 

Heck, they even made Subaru's phone white and the wrong model

 

the extra stuff that the anime adds in are content that create extra scenes

that don't add anything new to the actual series as a whole. The purpose of 

extra scenes is to extend the show to fill a time slot. 

 

People will still enjoy watching something animated even when there is no original content

The whole point is to see the characters up and moving around and speaking

you get the same amount of content without having to buy 87 volumes, or 935+ shonen sundays

you just have to tune in to the tv at 6pm on Saturday(japan time) for the rest of your life. 

 

Still, you'd think the anime staff knows that they're doing it wrong. Maybe it just doesn't matter to them—they can just ignore it, after all, like they did with Episode 5, Episode 13 and Episode 128. They could add a scene in in which Shuichi/Subaru is shown to have a second phone, if he turns out to be the one in contact with Masumi, if they so desired.

 

It's just that they got the models of phones wrong, in those images—it wouldn't take much effort, you'd think, to simply duplicate the manga, in this respect.

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Well maybe they mess things up in the anime,but i guess that they know more than what we do (of course they don't know the whole story plot but at least they are in close contact with Gosho and are aware of some near future details)

I mean this anime needs special staff who are very careful with details and understand the mechanism of every case,they are not just doing donkey work like copy and paste everything from the manga.

The exact scene (manga version) includes dark sleeves or wristbands,

I don't say this is a clue ,but i believe the curvature of that sleeve looks too wide,just like the sleeves of a shogi player costume

20141209120257%21Akai_Middle_Brother%27s

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The exact scene (manga version) includes dark sleeves or wristbands,

I don't say this is a clue ,but i believe the curvature of that sleeve looks too wide,just like the sleeves of a shogi player costume

 

Look at File 899–File 902 and compare the sleeves of Shukichi's shogi attire to the sleeves, here—they don't match. He does, though, wear a black shirt with sleeves like the ones seen in the image you're showing... but Shuichi/Subaru has a shirt like that, too, and he's worn it much more often (File 638–File 640, File 812–File 814, File 843). Shuichi's/Subaru's phone matches the phone seen in File 860, and so does Shukichi's phone (from the little we got of it in File 929).

 

At this point, I think that Shukichi really is the brother of Shuichi/Subaru and Masumi and the son of MG (if she's their mother, which seems quite likely), but Shuichi/Subaru has been the one in contact with Masumi in Steamy Relations (File 856–File 858/Episode 740 and Episode 741), Bumper Brawn (File 859–File 861/Episode 744 and Episode 745), and A Killer in Ramen Ogura (File 928–File 930), and she's telling everyone who asks about the identity of who's she's talking to that its Shukichi. She wouldn't tell Shinichi/Conan who she's really talking to because she doesn't know that he's working with Shuichi/Subaru, since Shuichi/Subaru wouldn't tell her that.

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Look at File 899–File 902 and compare the sleeves of Shukichi's shogi attire to the sleeves, here—they don't match.

Gosho redrew the sleeve scene from the Bowling Alley case for the volume release, which made the middle brother's sleeve in look like the sleeve of Shukichi's shogi attire. (thanks to Kor on DCTP who dug out this picture when I asked him)

 

005.jpg

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Even when you compare the released volume version redraws (volume 81 and 85), the color of Shuukichi's shogi attire does not match the color or

the texture of the arm seen here. Plus, the white on the redrawn arm sleeve of the middle brother almost looks like a 

sleeve cuff or a rolled sleeve, rather than a layer of white cloth covered by a layer of another cloth. 

 

comparrison.png

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Even when you compare the released volume version redraws (volume 81 and 85), the color of Shuuichi's shogi attire does not match the color or

the texture of the arm seen here. Plus, the white on the redrawn arm sleeve of the middle brother almost looks like a 

sleeve cuff or a rolled sleeve, rather than a layer of white cloth covered by a layer of another cloth. 

 

comparrison.png

 

But those are from two different angles. Put in pictures with more angles, and we'll see.

 

Plus, why would Gosho even make the change? If Shuichi/Subaru is the one in contact with Masumi, the black shirt is fine. Both Shukichi and Shuichi/Subaru have a black shirt with appropriate sleeves. Does Shuichi/Subaru have attire with a sleeve like this?

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This is the only  image from remotely the same angle

comparrison2.png

 

 

Also this, 

 

comparrison4.png

 

 

 

ALSO, another thing I want to point out!!!!!!

The images change depending on the source

the scanlations are intentionally darkened for better viewing of things

but sometimes the details become hidden by the darkening

 

Shonen Sunday version............ Scanlation version................. Volume 81 version

 

hand3.png

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This is the only  image from remotely the same angle

comparrison2.png

 

 

Also this, 

 

comparrison4.png

 

 

 

ALSO, another thing I want to point out!!!!!!

The images change depending on the source

the scanlations are intentionally darkened for better viewing of things

but sometimes the details become hidden by the darkening

 

Shonen Sunday version............ Scanlation version................. Volume 81 version

 

hand3.png

 

 

Ah, that outfit, from Department Store Bomber Case/The Crisis Beckoned by the Red Omen (File 700–File 704/Episode 578–Episode 581)—considering the texture, it looks like Shuichi/Subaru is the one receiving the text, there. Shukichi's shogi clothes lack the pattern that Shuichi's/Subaru's clothes from File 700–File 704/Episode 578–Episode 581 have.

 

If you brighten the scanlation of the other files where Shuichi/Subaru is wearing the black shirt, you should get the shirt in the original SS version of File 860.

 

Actually, it looks like the brightness of the collar and the shirt were simply changed between the SS version and the Volume 81 version.

 

EDIT:

Just thought of something—do you have the original SS releases of the panels with Shukichi that you're showing?

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Honestly, after seeing this discussion for some time, I can accept the fact that the person Masumi is in contact with is Akai even though I'm not completely convinced yet, but that would only be the case if Shuukichi is the middle brother, otherwise, it would be bad on Gosho's part.

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I can accept the fact that the person Masumi is in contact with is Akai... but that would only be the case if Shuukichi is the middle brother, otherwise, it would be bad on Gosho's part.

 

Agreed, completely.

 

I'm honestly convinced, at this point, that Masumi is just telling everyone she's in contact with her second brother (Shukichi) when she's actually in contact with her first brother (Shuichi/Subaru). Why is it that you're not convinced? All Gosho has shown and told us about who Masumi has been in contact with and what he's like looks like his way of a twist setup.

 

I feel the "hint" about MG and Shuichi/Subaru being happy at Shukichi winning the 7th shogi title (File 902/Episode 786) is different from the "hint" about Shukichi putting Yumi on hold and then putting her back on, and this period of Yumi waiting for him to put her back on is filled by Masumi's brief conversation with her middle brother before he hangs up (File 929).

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If you brighten the scanlation of the other files where Shuichi/Subaru is wearing the black shirt, you should get the shirt in the original SS version of File 860.

 

I'm having a lot of difficulty finding unaltered Shonen Sunday raws from before 825

The only appearances of Subaru after that are 843, and the Yusaku-Subaru from Scarlet arc, and the end of 902 

And all I can find of 843 is the Chinese scan which is already darkened 

In 902, the jacket thing he is wearing actually does look really black in the SS raw rather than this other color

 

So I can't verify this. 

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 Why is it that you're not convinced? All Gosho has shown and told us about who Masumi has been in contact with and what he's like looks like his way of a twist setup.

I said that I'm not completely convinced, meaning that I still don't have 100% faith in it, I just see it as a possibility, and to me it's just as possible as Sera actually talking to Shuukichi, I still don't think Sera knows Akai is alive or that Akai would want to let her know.

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I said that I'm not completely convinced, meaning that I still don't have 100% faith in it, I just see it as a possibility, and to me it's just as possible as Sera actually talking to Shuukichi, I still don't think Sera knows Akai is alive or that Akai would want to let her know.

 

Sorry, I meant completely convinced.

 

He wouldn't want to let her know after Mystery Train?

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At this point, I'm just going to keep arguing for Subaru to be the guy who is on the phone (regardless of whether or not Shuukichi is related) up until Gosho finally puts the answer in the series I really don't care if I am wrong at this point, but I'm still going to keep arguing my side up until the end. 

 

 

 

I was going to post something more about the black phones, but I left my external drive of all of the manga downloads I have done

at a different location, so I don't have any of the scans with me >_<, guess I'm going to have to wait till tomorrow.

Basically the gist of it was that as far as I'm concerned, looking at Subaru's phones (volume version), and the middle brother's phone (volume version), and

Shuukichi's phone(Shonen Sunday version)..... none of them really look like the same model, there is just a tiny bit of difference between each. Also, Kor pointed out to me

at the dctp spoiler cbox that the phone that Subaru has in the Ice Truck case is clearly a different model one from the one he has 

during the Scarlet Arc Epilogue (you can see the difference a whole lot better in the volume version).....

why does Subaru have two smart phones? (three phones if he still has his flip phone with the PS statement on it, or maybe that carried over to a smart phone?) 

 

EDIT:

 

Subaru has two different phones

subaru%20has%202%20phones.jpg

 

The phone from the Ice truck case is not the same as the Middle Bother's phone

not%20the%20same%20phone.jpg

 

Shuukichi's phone seems to have defined edges

shuukichis%20phone%20has%20edges.jpg

 

Shuukichi's phone has more of a corner edge than the Middle Brother's phone

Also its hard to tell what model Shuukichi's phone is since we only see it from the back

not%20the%20same%20phone2.jpg

 

Too be honest..... to me, all of these phones look just slightly different enough to be different phones...

smallphone5.jpg

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At this point, I'm just going to keep arguing for Subaru to be the guy who is on the phone (regardless of whether or not Shuukichi is related) up until Gosho finally puts the answer in the series I really don't care if I am wrong at this point, but I'm still going to keep arguing my side up until the end. 

It really seems as if Gosho's going to pull a twist on this—Shukichi would seem to be the obvious choice of who's contacting Masumi over the phone, but it really could be Shuichi/Subaru.

 

 

Too be honest..... to me, all of these phones look just slightly different enough to be different phones...

smallphone5.jpg

 

 

So you're saying Shuichi/Subaru has 3 phones?

 

Shukichi's phone is seen from an angle where we can see the bottom and part of the sides, while the other three only show the top parts—unless we see the top of Shukichi's phone, I'm not convinced Shukichi's phone can't be the second one.

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It really seems as if Gosho's going to pull a twist on this—Shukichi would seem to be the obvious choice of who's contacting Masumi over the phone, but it really could be Shuichi/Subaru.

 

 

 

 

So you're saying Shuichi/Subaru has 3 phones?

 

Shukichi's phone is seen from an angle where we can see the bottom and part of the sides, while the other three only show the top parts—unless we see the top of Shukichi's phone, I'm not convinced Shukichi's phone can't be the second one.

I was going to say the same but I wanted to see what you would say first, we also only see the top of whoever is talking to Masumi's phone, so it isn't impossible for it to be the same phone. Subaru's 2 phones are different from the person who is talking to Masumi's phone, so Subaru needs to have a third phone which we haven't seen before if he is the one in contact with Masumi, which would be lame from Gosho.

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Subaru's 2 phones are different from the person who is talking to Masumi's phone, so Subaru needs to have a third phone which we haven't seen before if he is the one in contact with Masumi, which would be lame from Gosho.

 

Two phones is fine, but three? Even for an FBI agent who's faked his death, that's a bit much.

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