Jump to content
Detective Conan World
Chekhov MacGuffin

Shuukichi Haneda Discussion Thread

Recommended Posts

how much is it certain that its him

we all have been assuming, but how much % that its him

 

Here's presumenothing's translation from File 928: Far too many conicidences for him not to be the brother if you ask me, even if we ignore everything up till this point =P

Ran asks if they know each other - he answers that Yumi visited his shop (before they moved here) with her boyfriend who wore round glasses

p14 - Y: “But it’s mysterious…” “Why do most men with round glasses like eating ramen?”

S: “My brother also wears round glasses, he likes eating ramen the most!”

Y: “Right? And if the person has stubble, then the chance is almost 100%!”

S: “My brother has stubble too! He’s quite good looking, so if he cleaned up a bit, and dressed neatly, he’d definitely be very popular… but he usually just wears wrinkled sports shirts…”

Y: “That’s right, he gives people the impression of a homeless and jobless person… yet he’s very smart…”

S: “His memory is also outstanding…” Y: “He can remember phone numbers with a glance… and his favourite phrase is… ‘I’m skilful at memorising such things. I’m the best in Japan…’ ”

p15 - Y&S: “ ‘No, maybe even the best in the world…’ ” “Eh?”

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Here's presumenothing's translation from File 928: Far too many conicidences for him not to be the brother if you ask me, even if we ignore everything up till this point =P

Ran asks if they know each other - he answers that Yumi visited his shop (before they moved here) with her boyfriend who wore round glasses

p14 - Y: “But it’s mysterious…” “Why do most men with round glasses like eating ramen?”

S: “My brother also wears round glasses, he likes eating ramen the most!”

Y: “Right? And if the person has stubble, then the chance is almost 100%!”

S: “My brother has stubble too! He’s quite good looking, so if he cleaned up a bit, and dressed neatly, he’d definitely be very popular… but he usually just wears wrinkled sports shirts…”

Y: “That’s right, he gives people the impression of a homeless and jobless person… yet he’s very smart…”

S: “His memory is also outstanding…” Y: “He can remember phone numbers with a glance… and his favourite phrase is… ‘I’m skilful at memorising such things. I’m the best in Japan…’ ”

p15 - Y&S: “ ‘No, maybe even the best in the world…’ ” “Eh?”

You said it.

 

And I'm guessing (correct me, if I'm wrong) you don't want to even consider the possibility of a Shukichi clone being introduced in the next two files...  :twisted:

 

Not even the Bourbon arc pulled something like that.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You said it.

 

And I'm guessing (correct me, if I'm wrong) you don't want to even consider the possibility of a Shukichi clone being introduced in the next two files...  :twisted:

 

Not even the Bourbon arc pulled something like that.

I think it would be extremely unlikely, so no, I don't really want to consider the possibility. I don't think this "mystery" would warrant something like this.

I definitely want to see what revelations come from the next two files, but I think what we've seen in this file is more than enough to confirm that Shukichi is the brother. I "might" see myself entertaining that theory if the quote wasn't so specific as to what Shukichi said in File 847.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I am expecting Shuukichi to appear at the end of the case. The clues about Shuukichi being the middle brother have gotten so obvious that I expect the solution will show up soon.

 

The real question is does Shuukichi know anything about Akai at the moment?

 

(At this point Okiya could stop in for takeout and I wouldn't bat an eye. Might as well have all the Akais in one place.)

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I am expecting Shuukichi to appear at the end of the case. The clues about Shuukichi being the middle brother have gotten so obvious that I expect the solution will show up soon.

Indeed.

 

The real question is does Shuukichi know anything about Akai at the moment?

Since Masumi doesn't know, he could very well not... however, given his intelligence, if Shuichi/Subaru contacted him recently or frequently, he may realize that something's up, at the very least.

 

How much do you think he knows about his mother (MG), now? If he's the one who called Masumi in File 800/Episode 674, what were they talking about?

 

At this point Okiya could stop in for takeout and I wouldn't bat an eye. Might as well have all the Akais in one place.

:lol:

Yes, it would make sense for Gosho to begin to take the next step—start revealing more and getting all four of them really involved in the plot.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thing is, only way Shukichi's not the middle brother is if Gosho introduces a Shukichi clone character in the next two files.

 

You may be surprised to hear this, but if a Shukichi clone is introduced, I'll be disappointed with Gosho... even annoyed. Yeah, that's right—me, who's been defending him so much and trying to justify his decisions. You know it really is the utmost screw up if I'm not even thinking of defending it.

 

Not even the Bourbon arc pulled such a stunt.

 

Yes, the next case related to this should begin the Shiho/Ai and Masumi uncover Shuichi's/Subaru's identity arc.

that would be lame of gosho :(

 

(At this point Okiya could stop in for takeout and I wouldn't bat an eye. Might as well have all the Akais in one place.)

but they dont serve curry there

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

if you said 50% i would have gone like : " its certain that its him"

but 99%, you know

so next on the list would be connecting the family back together

with that sera v ai before

Well, like Heliotropic said, pretty much given all the hints that we got from before this file it was almost certain, but in this file we get too much confirmation that it wouldn't make any sense if there was another character who fits all of Shuukichi's characteristics and also says the same exact phrase as him, introducing a character that is like that out of the blue would be bad, just bad, also that would make a plot hole, how in the world did Shuukichi know for certain that Shinichi already solved the case in his debut? The only explanation that make sense is that he knows that Conan is Shinichi, and has seen him work before or something, because even characters that regularly see Conan solve cases are still amazed at how smart he is and never gave the same reaction as Shuukichi.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Gosho's habit since the Eisuke arc is to begin dropping lots of more obvious hints right before the solution comes out. He has been remarkably consistent about it since the Bourbon arc. I think it's very likely we will have the "solution" at the end of this file case. My guess is Shuukichi will come in to have Ramen while Sera is there.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

that would be lame of gosho :(

Well, he needs to address it—for both Shiho/Ai and Masumi, it's been there for over a hundred files.

 

Gosho's habit since the Eisuke arc is to begin dropping lots of more obvious hints right before the solution comes out. He has been remarkably consistent about it since the Bourbon arc. I think it's very likely we will have the "solution" at the end of this file. My guess is Shuukichi will come in to have Ramen while Sera is there.

Probably in the last file. It could be the second, but that's less likely.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Gosho's habit since the Eisuke arc is to begin dropping lots of more obvious hints right before the solution comes out. He has been remarkably consistent about it since the Bourbon arc. I think it's very likely we will have the "solution" at the end of this file case. My guess is Shuukichi will come in to have Ramen while Sera is there.

 

Well, unless new details come out, it looks like this question remains unanswered.

 

Hey, I would've loved for this question to finally be answered, but you know Gosho these days...  -_-

 

This I'm sure of, though—his limit to putting the answers to questions on hold is 4 and 1/2 to 7 years (it took 7 years to be revealed that Subaru was Shuichi—that was the second question of the Bourbon arc (the first was "Who is Bourbon?", which took 4 and 1/2 years to answer) that was answered only at the end of the arc). The middle brother question is 2 and 1/2 years old. I hope it'll be answered soon, but we could potentially have to wait until 2020 (and that goes for the questions about MG, as well). We could potentially know who Rum is before middle brother and MG questions are answered (yikes!  :wacko:). 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest

I wanted to post this here rather than at dctp, because i dont want it associated with that thread i made a year ago

 

I've been doing some more thinking about the last case and the "obvious hints" at the middle brother thing.

 

this post is not really "against" Shuukichi, but rather looking at all possibilities. 

 

Lets start with the descriptions. What do these descriptions tell us about the middle brother? Would we actually be 

able to pick a person out of a crowd based on these descriptions alone? First of all, all of the descriptions given 

in this particular case are removable descriptions. They tell us nothing about the person's height, weight, or any

completely distinguishable physical appearance. Those descriptions were

1. Round Glasses + likes to eat ramen

2. has facial hair-stubble (wears a stubble)

3. handsome, but dresses messy

4. really good at memorizing + favorite quote

However, recently we had a case where Shuukichi appeared as the "Taiko Meijin" where he really didn't fit any of these qualities 

other than being "handsome" and "being good at memorizing" which really can't be quantified. I have started to wonder, if these 

qualities are removable, as provable by that Shogi case, is it possible that the middle brother, if not Shuukichi, can also remove 

these qualities from himself and look like someone completely different? Since we don't really have a physical description, and

all of the known qualities are removable, If there was a different person who was the brother, they wouldn't have to look like

Shuukichi at all in their actual appearance. They would however have to have the ability to put on these qualities described above

as well as know the quote.

 

The quote thing kind of bothers me. Where does Shuukichi get the idea that he is the best in the world

at memorization? Has he competed in something outside Shogi to prove this? Also, is it completely necessary that they say the 

"best in Japan" first every time? We have only seen Shuukichi say this quote once, in a flashback, but Yumi seems to know it well enough that it seems to be like the "best in Japan" part has to go with it, as if he is actually quoting something and not just making a bold claim. If he is quoting something, it is possible to have another person who can go around saying that same quote, especially if

we find out that it is from something that is popular like from a Gomera film, or out of one of Yusaku's novels. 

 

Yumi specifically mentions "why do so many men that have round glasses like ramen", which sounds like a form of Chekovs gun 

to me. At the very least, at some point we should meet at least one other character that has round glasses and likes ramen, 

regardless of whether they fit any of the other descriptions. (NOTE TO SELF: at some point go look up all manga characters ever introduced that have round glasses and see if they mention ramen, yes, even Eisuke, for completeness sake.)

 

As for the phone conversation, Conan mentions that Shuukichi had recently won the title of Meijin, and now has all seven titles, which

means he may be getting a lot of interview calls. Since Conan is the one who thinks that, its probably what he actually believes. When

he sees that the phone calls are connecting and being hung up at the same time, he comments on the two of them being in sync, 

which he probably thinks is a coincidence since he is the one who thought that Shuukichi would be getting other calls anyway. 

 

The sex joke that ended this case seemed so random and out of place. However it some how seems oddly appropriate

given that all I really fell that I learned is that Shuukichi and the middle bro both occasionally wear messy jersey / track suit

things and that we have a joke about strenuous exercise. 

 

 

 

Note to self: Shuukichi is wearing some kind of jersey track suit thing with some kind of thin jacket thing thrown on top in his first appearance case, as well as the flashback to when he met Sakurako in the mail box area (it looks really similar to the one he is wearing in this case), which could give credit to Masumi's statement that her brother always wears a messy jersey. However in ALL flashbacks where he meets with Yumi, he is wearing something different that makes him look a little bit neater, and during the whole Shogi case he is wearing traditional robes, however that was event specific. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If Gosho left it at similar appearances, I might not have been convinced that shuukichi is the middle brother, but then he made them both have the same quote. The quote is also not something popular that many ppl might know because we have never heard anyone except shuukichi say it before. BTW I don't think we should mind little details like whether he is the best in memory in the world or not about the quote, he might very well be so, being so good at shogi is exceptional and he doesn't really need to have participated in other international competitions to prove something like that.

I would have been rather surprised, and even disappointed if Gosho revealed Shuukichi to not be the middle brother after the quote part, but the phone conversation is too much, if Gosho says he is not the middle brother, I would really be more disappointed than surprised.

I also thought when Conan said that they are in sync he might have meant it is just a coincidence, but his facial expression didn't seem to be like that, besides he probably wouldn't be even bothered to think something like that.

In conclusion, I believe there have been too many 'obvious' evidences proving Haneda to be the middle brother, such as Akai watching him on TV and his face resembling Akai and Sera quite a bit.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There are also other hints, like the Shogi case's ending with both Akai and the MG being happy about his victory, also the fact that he was sure that Conan solved the case despite meeting him before, not even characters that have seen Conan solve many cases have confidence that Conan solved the case already, it was already hinted that he is the middle brother at that time. But lets say Gosho will find a way to explain all those things, that would be out of the blue with nothing hinting at it, it would be totally against Gosho's style, if Shuukichi was a red herring like the other ones that Gosho typically does, then there must be at least a few hints of the other possibilities, and I doubt Gosho thinks this mystery is important enough to introduce another character that shares the same characteristics and says the same quote as Shuukichi, that would drag out the already dragged out mystery very much. Right now to me it sounds like the red herring that Gosho is doing is making us believe that Shuukichi isn't the middle brother.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest

*repeats sentence*

 

"this post is not really "against" Shuukichi, but rather looking at all possibilities."

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I kind of wanted to revisit one of my sections of my currently oudated theory about the middle brother, now assuming that brother is Shuukichi and the Wizard is Shinichi. At the time, I already made the assumption that Masumi knows Conan's true identity, and thus can deduce Shinichi disappeared for some reason and Conan appeared in his place.

Shuukichi knows Shinichi is Conan, but is keeping this a secret from Masumi
This argument has two parts: 1) deducing the unseen contents of Sera's text and Shuukichi's return text main body, and 2) analyzing the exchange to prove Shuukichi may know Conan is Shinichi. It also assumes that Shuukichi knows the Wizard refers to Shinichi.


The two unseen text parts were Masumi asking Shuukichi how he knew Conan and Shuukichi's reply that he met Conan at a case prior

After the exchange in the bowling alley case (Masumi shows her brother Conan's picture thinking he will be surprised. Masumi is shocked when the brother replies back that "if it's him, then there's no problem".(861.4)), Sera texts something we didn't get to see to her brother. Shuukichi later sends a reply to Masumi that we also don't get to see, which makes Masumi react "Ah, I see. So that's how it is." In that same reply's PS, Shuukichi asks Masumi if she has met the Wizard.

Masumi knows Conan didn't exist prior to Shinichi shrinking. That means that her brother must know Conan because either:
1) he some experience with Conan as Conan or someone talked about Conan with him before
2) he figured out Conan is Shinichi.
Masumi doesn't yet know which of the two explanations are true for her brother.

Given the previous exchange, the single, most logical followup question Sera could ask her brother is how he knows him. In fact, that's exactly what Masumi was thinking after she got his message (861p4). Masumi's thought reply "Ah, I see. So that's how it is."(861.15-16) to her brother's answer fits a conversation where Shuukichi explained something after being questioned. The reason why this part of the conversation was kept hidden from the reader is because it would spoil who the middle brother is because it would shortlist Shuukichi as a suspect who had met Conan during a case.

Circling back to which of the two possible explanations above applies to Shuukichi, the one he must have claimed in the reply can only be the first; Shuukichi had a prior experience with Conan as Conan. Specifically Shuukichi said he had been with Conan when a murder case happened. This is the most likely response because it is truthful. The only reason for Shuukichi to use another explanation and lie is to avoid Masumi pressing Conan for details on the murder that could lead Masumi to his doorstep. I don't think that is reasonable because Shuukichi doesn't seem especially concerned about avoiding Masumi. He did due diligence in not telling her where he lives or that he is a professional Shogi player, but he isn't avoiding public appearances where she might recognize him.

One thing Shuukichi's reply could definitely not be is something like, "I recognize Conan is Shinichi" or "I met him a long time ago". Sera's reaction to his reply was some surprise, but not a whole lot, as well as a little happy blushing. Overall, his answer satisfies her. If Shuukichi had tried to cover for himself with a vague half-truth like "I met Conan a long time ago", Masumi would catch the lie and not be satisfied with that answer because she knows that Shinichi only disappeared recently. If Shuukichi had come out with something like "I know Conan is Shinichi", that would have surprised Sera more than she was shown to be. Also, that would mean Sera would now know Conan is Shinichi and there would be no reason for Shuukichi to then ask if she had met the Wizard (Shinichi).
 

Shuukichi may have brought up the Wizard as a test for Sera because he knew Conan is Shinichi

After Sera texts her brother Conan's picture without telling him about her suspicions about Conan's true identity, Shuukichi then asks if she met the Wizard. It seems non-coincidental for Shuukichi to bring up the Wizard right after Sera reveals to him she met Conan. On top of his high deduction skills, Shuukichi has a special ability "the best memory in Japan" that would enable him to figure out Conan was Shinichi decisively. We know he has a memory for people because both Yumi and Masumi attempt to leverage his ability to remember details about suspects for a murder case.

Masumi has neglected to tell her brother that she knows Conan is Shinichi, and until now she had withheld the identity of the detective she had been competing and collaborating with, so the brother is probably not aware that she knows Conan's secret identity. Thus, he may have asked her about the Wizard in order to probe if she knows Conan's identity without revealing that he himself already knows Conan is Shinichi.

At this point, the main issue is when Shuukichi had the opportunity to meet Shinichi so he had a reference point when he met Conan.  The middle brother might have been present at the ocean meeting with Sera, Shinichi, and Ran since he knows about "The Wizard" in the first place. The decisive evidence would be Ran's feelings about him. So far Ran has felt Masumi and the unknown child are familiar, most likely in connection with the past waves event that has been foreshadowed. Ran and Shuukichi have not been in the same cases together so far.

 

The other, less important problem is whether he understands the shrinking problem, after all it is more likely to think two children from the same parents with different ages look exactly alike than one is the same child shrunken. Shuukichi does have two potential sources of info to help him. One is Shuuichi, his brother who he may also advise on cases. (I feel this is unlikely because Shuuichi is very reticent regarding deductions.) The other and more likely possibility is that he is aware of "the unknown sister from outside the domain" who many presume to be shrunk by APTX or something else. They are avoiding each other because the child feels she is under threat and does not want to drag Shuukichi into danger.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I kind of wanted to revisit one of my sections of my currently oudated theory about the middle brother, now assuming that brother is Shuukichi and the Wizard is Shinichi. At the time, I already made the assumption that Masumi knows Conan's true identity, and thus can deduce Shinichi disappeared for some reason and Conan appeared in his place.

Shuukichi knows Shinichi is Conan, but is keeping this a secret from Masumi

This argument has two parts: 1) deducing the unseen contents of Sera's text and Shuukichi's return text main body, and 2) analyzing the exchange to prove Shuukichi may know Conan is Shinichi. It also assumes that Shuukichi knows the Wizard refers to Shinichi.

The two unseen text parts were Masumi asking Shuukichi how he knew Conan and Shuukichi's reply that he met Conan at a case prior

After the exchange in the bowling alley case (Masumi shows her brother Conan's picture thinking he will be surprised. Masumi is shocked when the brother replies back that "if it's him, then there's no problem".(861.4)), Sera texts something we didn't get to see to her brother. Shuukichi later sends a reply to Masumi that we also don't get to see, which makes Masumi react "Ah, I see. So that's how it is." In that same reply's PS, Shuukichi asks Masumi if she has met the Wizard.

Masumi knows Conan didn't exist prior to Shinichi shrinking. That means that her brother must know Conan because either:

1) he some experience with Conan as Conan or someone talked about Conan with him before

2) he figured out Conan is Shinichi.

Masumi doesn't yet know which of the two explanations are true for her brother.

Given the previous exchange, the single, most logical followup question Sera could ask her brother is how he knows him. In fact, that's exactly what Masumi was thinking after she got his message (861p4). Masumi's thought reply "Ah, I see. So that's how it is."(861.15-16) to her brother's answer fits a conversation where Shuukichi explained something after being questioned. The reason why this part of the conversation was kept hidden from the reader is because it would spoil who the middle brother is because it would shortlist Shuukichi as a suspect who had met Conan during a case.

Circling back to which of the two possible explanations above applies to Shuukichi, the one he must have claimed in the reply can only be the first; Shuukichi had a prior experience with Conan as Conan. Specifically Shuukichi said he had been with Conan when a murder case happened. This is the most likely response because it is truthful. The only reason for Shuukichi to use another explanation and lie is to avoid Masumi pressing Conan for details on the murder that could lead Masumi to his doorstep. I don't think that is reasonable because Shuukichi doesn't seem especially concerned about avoiding Masumi. He did due diligence in not telling her where he lives or that he is a professional Shogi player, but he isn't avoiding public appearances where she might recognize him.

One thing Shuukichi's reply could definitely not be is something like, "I recognize Conan is Shinichi" or "I met him a long time ago". Sera's reaction to his reply was some surprise, but not a whole lot, as well as a little happy blushing. Overall, his answer satisfies her. If Shuukichi had tried to cover for himself with a vague half-truth like "I met Conan a long time ago", Masumi would catch the lie and not be satisfied with that answer because she knows that Shinichi only disappeared recently. If Shuukichi had come out with something like "I know Conan is Shinichi", that would have surprised Sera more than she was shown to be. Also, that would mean Sera would now know Conan is Shinichi and there would be no reason for Shuukichi to then ask if she had met the Wizard (Shinichi).

 

Shuukichi may have brought up the Wizard as a test for Sera because he knew Conan is Shinichi

After Sera texts her brother Conan's picture without telling him about her suspicions about Conan's true identity, Shuukichi then asks if she met the Wizard. It seems non-coincidental for Shuukichi to bring up the Wizard right after Sera reveals to him she met Conan. On top of his high deduction skills, Shuukichi has a special ability "the best memory in Japan" that would enable him to figure out Conan was Shinichi decisively. We know he has a memory for people because both Yumi and Masumi attempt to leverage his ability to remember details about suspects for a murder case.

Masumi has neglected to tell her brother that she knows Conan is Shinichi, and until now she had withheld the identity of the detective she had been competing and collaborating with, so the brother is probably not aware that she knows Conan's secret identity. Thus, he may have asked her about the Wizard in order to probe if she knows Conan's identity without revealing that he himself already knows Conan is Shinichi.

At this point, the main issue is when Shuukichi had the opportunity to meet Shinichi so he had a reference point when he met Conan.  The middle brother might have been present at the ocean meeting with Sera, Shinichi, and Ran since he knows about "The Wizard" in the first place. The decisive evidence would be Ran's feelings about him. So far Ran has felt Masumi and the unknown child are familiar, most likely in connection with the past waves event that has been foreshadowed. Ran and Shuukichi have not been in the same cases together so far.

 

The other, less important problem is whether he understands the shrinking problem, after all it is more likely to think two children from the same parents with different ages look exactly alike than one is the same child shrunken. Shuukichi does have two potential sources of info to help him. One is Shuuichi, his brother who he may also advise on cases. (I feel this is unlikely because Shuuichi is very reticent regarding deductions.) The other and more likely possibility is that he is aware of "the unknown sister from outside the domain" who many presume to be shrunk by APTX or something else. They are avoiding each other because the child feels she is under threat and does not want to drag Shuukichi into danger.

This is what I was saying for the past few months except it's more detailed, but as for the last line, I don't know, if she wouldn't want to drag Shuukichi into danger then why drag Masumi into danger? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This is what I was saying for the past few months except it's more detailed, but as for the last line, I don't know, if she wouldn't want to drag Shuukichi into danger then why drag Masumi into danger? 

 

Assuming what Masumi said was true, she and Mary have been living in America up until now (unless they came for a vacation, or mom wanted to figure out how her firstborn son died, or something). As a highschooler, Masumi would still be living at home with her mom, unless she went to a boarding school. I assume Mary has not remarried, so that means she should be living alone with Masumi. If Mary just ran away from home to hide, then Masumi would be left alone to fend for herself as a high schooler and a target of the Black Organization. Masumi might have also been first on the scene and found out about the shrink, or Mary called for a rescue, or Masumi was the most convenient help available who could be trusted.

 

Secrecy-wise Masumi appears to have been known as an Akai already by the BO. Bourbon recognized her in Detective's Nocturne, approached her as Scar Akai in 801, and then Vermouth as Scar Akai disabled Masumi von Karma style on the mystery train after saying "You haven't changed at all, Masumi" with Akai's voice. The Vermouth part is key, if it was something Bourbon was keeping to himself as secret police then he wouldn't have brought it up with Vermouth. Dragging Haneda in, who appears to have escaped notice for now, might not have added much additional help, especially if Mary can handle being the brain while Masumi is the brawn. Mary might be able to contact Haneda by phone anyway.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm not so sure that "the wizard/magician" is Shinichi/Conan. Isn't he the one who always says things about magic not existing, and exposing the secrets behind magic tricks? Is there some meaning about them naming Shinichi/Conan "the wizard/magician?"

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest

I'm not so sure that "the wizard/magician" is Shinichi/Conan. Isn't he the one who always says things about magic not existing, and exposing the secrets behind magic tricks? Is there some meaning about them naming Shinichi/Conan "the wizard/magician?"

 

Silver Witch Case VS Red Woman Case (god.... even the case names seem similar)

(this doesn't really answer your question, I just wanted to point this out)

 

fairytales.png

 

fairytales2.png

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm not so sure that "the wizard/magician" is Shinichi/Conan. Isn't he the one who always says things about magic not existing, and exposing the secrets behind magic tricks? Is there some meaning about them naming Shinichi/Conan "the wizard/magician?"

Well, I suppose it has to do with whatever case was solved when they first met, remember Ran had a flashback of a young Sera saying "You're a wizard!" and Sera looked at Conan every time she mentioned the world wizard, Sonoko said that Sera was like a magician because of how she solved the case, so it might be the same for Shinichi.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well, I suppose it has to do with whatever case was solved when they first met, remember Ran had a flashback of a young Sera saying "You're a wizard!" and Sera looked at Conan every time she mentioned the world wizard, Sonoko said that Sera was like a magician because of how she solved the case, so it might be the same for Shinichi.

 

But what was Shinichi's response to Masumi calling him a "wizard/magician?" There's Masumi's "I really am a bad girl" thought in File 814... maybe it's related to Shinichi's response to her calling him a "wizard/magician," he could've said what he later said in the Silver Witch case, hence why Masumi says it in the Red Woman case—she remembers it well.

 

Silver Witch Case VS Red Woman Case (god.... even the case names seem similar)

(this doesn't really answer your question, I just wanted to point this out)

Yeah, it is an important point—it seems like its taken for granted that Shinichi/Conan is the "wizard/magician," even when Masumi's reason for coming to Japan must have to do with MG... she said that she'd come to Japan to meet the "wizard/magician..." which makes MG the "wizard/magician," right? Then there's the middle brother's use of the name—Masumi didn't know that he'd met Shinichi/Conan before... how could they have an agreed nickname for him, then?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm not so sure that "the wizard/magician" is Shinichi/Conan. Isn't he the one who always says things about magic not existing, and exposing the secrets behind magic tricks? Is there some meaning about them naming Shinichi/Conan "the wizard/magician?"

There are a lot of hints but the most obvious one is from the bowling alley case

In a PS, Masumi's middle brother asks if she "has already met the Wizard?" Masumi turns towards Conan when thinking of the answer "You could say so". There is also Ran's memory of a young Masumi calling somebody a wizard. If Ran heard it, undoubtedly Shinichi will have been somewhere with her.

Most people have speculated that Shinichi acquired the nickname from his solving the case in his past during the sound of waves incident where he and Ran met Masumi and Mary.

Wizard itself probably refers to some case solution where Shinichi demonstrated the trick and the truth was revealed like magic - that's one of Shinichi's favorite way of doing things.

 

... even when Masumi's reason for coming to Japan must have to do with MG... she said that she'd come to Japan to meet the "wizard/magician..." which makes MG the "wizard/magician," right?

"Even when Masumi's reason for coming to Japan must have to do with MG" is a pretty huge assumption. For all we know, her reason for coming to Japan is because she wants Shinichi to solve her mother's case. Maybe she was looking for her older bro at first, but then settled on Shinichi's help when she couldn't make contact. Maybe she saw Conan on the news/Shuuichi's pictures and realized that Shinichi may have been affected by the same problem as her mother and wanted to find out the truth.

 

Then there's the middle brother's use of the name—Masumi didn't know that he'd met Shinichi/Conan before... how could they have an agreed nickname for him, then?

Because Masumi gave Shinichi that nickname after the incident in the past with the sound of waves. Ran has a memory of young Sera at that time calling someone a wizard. Middle Bro/Haneda was probably there at the time of the incident, or heard about the incident from Masumi later. Mary was probably there at the incident because Ran believes she met the mystery girl sometime in the past. At that age, where Masumi looks 6-7, Haneda would still be in high school and would be with his mother still.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There are a lot of hints but the most obvious one is from the bowling alley case

In a PS, Masumi's middle brother asks if she "has already met the Wizard?" Masumi turns towards Conan when thinking of the answer "You could say so". There is also Ran's memory of a young Masumi calling somebody a wizard. If Ran heard it, undoubtedly Shinichi will have been somewhere with her.

Most people have speculated that Shinichi acquired the nickname from his solving the case in his past during the sound of waves incident where he and Ran met Masumi and Mary.

Wizard itself probably refers to some case solution where Shinichi demonstrated the trick and the truth was revealed like magic - that's one of Shinichi's favorite way of doing things.

Believe me, I've seen those hints—but the fact that Shinichi reveals tricks/exposes their nature doesn't make him a wizard/magician—a wizard doesn't even need tricks, if we go by Akako, as she literally does what shouldn't be possible with no tricks involved, or truth to be exposed, while magicians utilize those tricks, like Kaitou Kid. Unless this is an ironic name for Shinichi/Conan, I don't think she's referring to him.

 

"Even when Masumi's reason for coming to Japan must have to do with MG" is a pretty huge assumption. For all we know, her reason for coming to Japan is because she wants Shinichi to solve her mother's case. Maybe she was looking for her older bro at first, but then settled on Shinichi's help when she couldn't make contact. Maybe she saw Conan on the news/Shuuichi's pictures and realized that Shinichi may have been affected by the same problem as her mother and wanted to find out the truth.

But her mother would have to have a problem for Shinichi/Conan to solve—if she didn't, then there'd be no reason to ask for his help. I make this assumption because there is so little information, and because I'm not too concerned about being wrong. If it turns out Shinichi/Conan is the wizard, and Masumi came to Japan because she thought he could help MG, fine—I'd be wrong, and that's that.

 

Because Masumi gave Shinichi that nickname after the incident in the past with the sound of waves. Ran has a memory of young Sera at that time calling someone a wizard. Middle Bro/Haneda was probably there at the time of the incident, or heard about the incident from Masumi later. Mary was probably there at the incident because Ran believes she met the mystery girl sometime in the past. At that age, where Masumi looks 6-7, Haneda would still be in high school and would be with his mother still.

Okay, this was an oversight on my part.

 

Still, there's Masumi's paraphrase in the Red Woman case of what Shinichi/Conan said in the Silver Witch case—this is what Shinichi likely said to Masumi following her asking him if he was a wizard/magician. Unless this response made Masumi believe even more that he was a "wizard/magician," it would likely not lead to such a nickname. I'm not sure about Masumi looking at Shinichi/Conan while thinking the answer to the middle brother's PS is proof that he's the "magician/wizard." I still think it could be Shiho/Ai or MG. Masumi didn't really meet Shiho/Ai—their only interaction is during Mystery Train, hence the "kinda" response. We don't know if MG was in Japan when she was assumedly shrunk, and Masumi then came over, or if it happened in America, and they came over together. Did MG move in with Masumi at some point after Mystery Train (818–824) after staying with the middle brother, if Masumi had to come to Japan from America, on her own? The picture of Shinichi/Conan Masumi takes in File 856 seems to tie to the picture she takes of herself and MG and shows to him in File 875, and the middle brother's text with the PS came in File 861. Could it be that MG had been staying with the middle brother until just before that point, and the text was asking if their mother had made it safely to her place? You'd think that if MG had been staying with Masumi from the time she arrived in Japan (just before the events of File 768), she would've found out about Shinichi/Conan sooner and thought of seeing if he was "worth their time" earlier.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

but the fact that Shinichi reveals tricks/exposes their nature doesn't make him a wizard/magician—a wizard doesn't even need tricks, if we go by Akako, as she literally does what shouldn't be possible with no tricks involved, or truth to be exposed, while magicians utilize those tricks, like Kaitou Kid. Unless this is an ironic name for Shinichi/Conan, I don't think she's referring to him.

This is an overly literal meaning of the word wizard. Are you maybe not a native English speaker? "Wizard" in English not only refers to the magical being that performs sorcery, but it can also refer to someone who highly skilled and can put on a performance. A math wizard is someone who solves difficult equations with grace and style, almost like they have magical insight. (Wizard also has this double meaning in Japanese as far as my dictionary tells me. There is a Professor Layton vs Ace Attorney soundtrack title for when Phoenix is stomping somebody in the courtroom called "The Courtroom's Magician." Masumi is an English speaker anyway.) When Shinichi used "Shiranpuri" in Red vs. Black to make everyone but the culprit sit down, you can call that moment a "spell" from a detective wizard. Shinichi also has the habit of turning the culprit's tricks into his own performances like they are acts in a magic show, like having Takagi hide invisibly in a pool and then suddenly appear on command, or make Sera appear from a chest of fruits. Wizard absolutely fits Shinichi's "explain the trick, reveal the culprit" style, especially if you are an impressionable child like Masumi. With the right sort of trick in the past case of waves, I can definitely see Shinichi doing something that appears to be magical to show the truth.

 

About the rest of your post, you've made a bunch of suggestions but haven't tied them together into a coherent theory. It was like reading a stream of consciousness rather than organized thoughts. Maybe I can help you sort it out by spinning the argument around: 1) Do you have any evidence that shows Conan is not the Wizard? 2) If the Wizard is the unknown child, do each of the wizard clues and their timing make sense?

 

Edit: To make life easier, can anyone help me list the chapters where wizards are discussed (Post Sera)?

Manga Volume 81, File 11 (861), pg 15-16: "Just like Magic" Middle bro asks if Sera has met the wizard. "You could say so"

Manga Volume 83, File 2 (874), pg 8: "The Red Past" Sera's purpose in coming to Japan is to meet the Wizard once more.

Manga Volume 86, File 1 (905) Ran has a flashback. Child Sera says "You are a wizard, right?"

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now