File 765-767: Ramen So Good... It's To Die For! (Vote for the culprit!)

[Abs. 2]

A death aura so potent... Someone has to die, every time!

[Officer Kaoko 142]

A death aura so potent... Someone has to die, every time!

Seriously... this made me laugh. Why would Ran, Kogoro and Conan be on the list ? And after that... 'Is Chekhov awesome?' and the options is only 'yes' and 'yes' ? LOL !

[Stopwatch 36]

*raises eyebrow* Kogoro is an option?! But I thought everyone knew it was Ran!! :mrgreen: And the entire 'This topic has been brought to you by my urge to tickle Chekhov'...

Also, is it me or is Conan agreeing with Kogoro on something creepy?

[Chekhov MacGuffin 1089]

Scooped!

[Cheesus 6]

It was Genta. Case Closed

and yes Chekhov is amazing.

[Aeyra 260]

Just read the chapter. I wanna try the ramen! It looks so good! Usually the person who is the murderer is the least suspicious, so I put down the part-time helper(I think). I can't believe there's going to be a week's hiatus! Argh! I don't want to wait!

[Abs. 2]

Only thing I'm really taking from this file so far is a subtle misleading hint regarding being ambidextrous and Scar Akai.

[Chekhov MacGuffin 1089]

This is a pretty interesting case. The vic talked about suicide, but unless he really, really, really wanted revenge against the ramen shop, there was no reason for him to commit suicide to run it into the ground. It also helps that we have three suspects making it less likely its a "how-dunnit". I wonder if he was planning to fake being poisoned/ use less than lethal drugs (like an emetic) to drive the shop under in order to acquire it because his own business wasn't powerful enough through finance. Maybe he cooperated with the real culprit who backstabbed him by using real poison?

I am looking forward to hearing about where the poison was found. The ramen shop people didn't seem to know that Saizu Tokumori was coming which limits their ability to prepare something ahead of time. It would also be surprising that they had poison on them ready to go. (Unless they were waiting for the guy to show up one day.) I suspect Saizu knew something about the dead regular because he went straight to that spot and knocked over the flower cup. Saizu might have also been involved with the guy's death.

In general, I don't think the poison was put on the chopsticks on the far right even though no one should sit there. That's because someone sitting in the second seat from the right might reach for them, even over the flower vase. This creates the possibility of poisoning an unintended target. There were no chopsticks in the bucket in front of Conan's seat so the option was to go for the far left ones or the far right ones. Conan went for the far right.

Of the suspects:

Ogura Katsumasa could have put the poison in the ramen. I am going to rule that out because that would be too straightforward to make a case. He was behind the counter most of the time, so he didn't have many opportunities unless he was going to toss pellets of poison. Poisoning someone in his own shop would be bad for business and he seems to have the will to want to keep the shop alive, even if he hated Saizu. It would be better for him to call Saizu out somewhere to talk about selling the shop and then poison him there.

Oohashi Sayo could have put the poison on the bottom of the glass she slammed down, poisoning the puddle and anticipating it would soak through the handkerchief and get on the Saizu's fingers making it look like a suicide. She could have put it in Saizu's waterglass as well, but again too straightforward.

Taninaka Atsushi, the barber, has the best tricky strategies and most likely the advantage of knowing Saizu would go the ramen shop after getting his hair cut. He prevented Conan from having chopsticks passed from Saizu, which could indicate he's trying to stop Conan from being poisoned. (It reminds me of the poisoning case right before Golden apple case.) He could have pickpocketed Saizu's handkerchief or smeared poison on his clothing in a specific spot while cutting the guy's hair, meaning the vic walked in with the poison on him. Also poisoning Saizu in the ramen shop might put it out of business and allow him to acquire the land to expand the barber shop's footprint.

[Detective Kudo 28]

This is a pretty interesting case. The vic talked about suicide, but unless he really, really, really wanted revenge against the ramen shop, there was no reason for him to commit suicide to run it into the ground. It also helps that we have three suspects making it less likely its a "how-dunnit". I wonder if he was planning to fake being poisoned/ use less than lethal drugs (like an emetic) to drive the shop under in order to acquire it because his own business wasn't powerful enough through finance. Maybe he cooperated with the real culprit who backstabbed him by using real poison?

I am looking forward to hearing about where the poison was found. The ramen shop people didn't seem to know that Saizu Tokumori was coming which limits their ability to prepare something ahead of time. It would also be surprising that they had poison on them ready to go. (Unless they were waiting for the guy to show up one day.) I suspect Saizu knew something about the dead regular because he went straight to that spot and knocked over the flower cup. Saizu might have also been involved with the guy's death.

In general, I don't think the poison was put on the chopsticks on the far right even though no one should sit there. That's because someone sitting in the second seat from the right might reach for them, even over the flower vase. This creates the possibility of poisoning an unintended target. There were no chopsticks in the bucket in front of Conan's seat so the option was to go for the far left ones or the far right ones. Conan went for the far right.

Of the suspects:

Ogura Katsumasa could have put the poison in the ramen. I am going to rule that out because that would be too straightforward to make a case. He was behind the counter most of the time, so he didn't have many opportunities unless he was going to toss pellets of poison. Poisoning someone in his own shop would be bad for business and he seems to have the will to want to keep the shop alive, even if he hated Saizu. It would be better for him to call Saizu out somewhere to talk about selling the shop and then poison him there.

Oohashi Sayo could have put the poison on the bottom of the glass she slammed down, poisoning the puddle and anticipating it would soak through the handkerchief and get on the Saizu's fingers making it look like a suicide. She could have put it in Saizu's waterglass as well, but again too straightforward.

Taninaka Atsushi, the barber, has the best tricky strategies and most likely the advantage of knowing Saizu would go the ramen shop after getting his hair cut. He prevented Conan from having chopsticks passed from Saizu, which could indicate he's trying to stop Conan from being poisoned. (It reminds me of the poisoning case right before Golden apple case.) He could have pickpocketed Saizu's handkerchief or smeared poison on his clothing in a specific spot while cutting the guy's hair, meaning the vic walked in with the poison on him. Also poisoning Saizu in the ramen shop might put it out of business and allow him to acquire the land to expand the barber shop's footprint.

The barber probably did it. It was too convenient of a time for the barber to come in. Almost as if it was planned, and the response of the president was strange. Almost like a good cop bad cop act. The Barber probably was in financial trouble and in debt to the real estate president. In order to stay in business he had to help get the company land or he will lose his shop ( still working on the motive part) In order to rid the "black sheep" of the community he decided to kill the President in the Ramen shop. Whatever the reason he instead of letting Conan and company get the chopsticks from The President he instead offered them his. Why? and why so quickly? The owner and employee had no reason to kill a man in their own shop (it's bad for business), and the President had no reason to actually kill himself but get poisoned and sue is a different story. Actually i bet the Barber switched the poison in his shop to make sure he dies. The president probably switched hands to poison himself, not kill himself.

Idk for sure yet, those are random thoughts, but I'm sure i'm close

btw, if any of you have a deduction ready, be sure to play the Beat Conan Deduction game as well :grin:

[magicbulletgirl 11]

I really think it has a good chance of being Sayo. She can just be written in a motive and considering her role there at the shop, had the most opportunity to commit the murder. I'm probably wrong on this case though *was spot on last case* ^^;

[Detective Kudo 28]

here is what i think

The Barber definatly did it! He cut the ceo's hair and maybe a shave, he probably asked him to take off his coat and put poison in his handkerchief,maybe replaced itwith another, he knew once he got into the Ramen shop he would have to clear his glasses or it would fog up.He had to clear it with his handkerchief causing him to be poisoned. Check the barbers garbage can and shop, he has to have some traces of poison there. case closed

[Stopwatch 36]

hmmm... the barber makes sense but it still doesn't explain why all three of them tried to stop Conan from going inside. If they also knew about the trick then it would explain it but I don't get why he (the barber) would explain the trick to those two, especially if he commited the murder all by himself. Maybe they planned it together or something but if that's the case then I'd have to wonder why two of them were plotting the downfall of their own shop.

[Detective Kudo 28]

hmmm... the barber makes sense but it still doesn't explain why all three of them tried to stop Conan from going inside. If they also knew about the trick then it would explain it but I don't get why he (the barber) would explain the trick to those two, especially if he commited the murder all by himself. Maybe they planned it together or something but if that's the case then I'd have to wonder why two of them were plotting the downfall of their own shop.

They all tried to stop him because Conan is a kid,the barber talked to Conan about the case because he was just a kid(he probably thought i will humor the brat because his uncle is a detective, if he didn't he would look suspisious and maybe be suspected by th police) The owner wouldn't kill the man in his own shop because its bad for buisness,there is a reason the waiter works there (sentimental reasons as well as its her dream to own her own Ramen shop) so i doubt she would do it, especially because that was her fathers old seat and favorite Ramen shop. We only have the barber left and he would be the only one to be able to put poison on the CEO hankercheif before coming into the Ramen shop.

[Chekhov MacGuffin 1089]

I'm now thinking the glasses (rather than the handkerchief) were what was poisoned and the barber switched them with the ones he prepared in advance when he approached the body. Saizu had to hold the glasses with his other hand to clean the lenses. When you get your hair cut, glasses must be taken off which gives the barber the perfect opportunity to apply poison. The barber has a pair of glasses in a glasses case when searched; these are likely the victim's pair. Additionally, the barber held back Conan from entering to prevent him, Kogoro, and the police inside from noticing his glasses fogged up and needed cleaning.

I will work on a more complete exposition later to make sure poisoning the glasses would result in the poison getting on the correct hand and cause poison stains in the right places. I also need to elaborate on how the barber would plan to make Saizu take the chopsticks with the proper hand after sitting in the right seat.

[Detective Kudo 28]

I'm now thinking the glasses (rather than the handkerchief) were what was poisoned and the barber switched them with the ones he prepared in advance when he approached the body. Saizu had to hold the glasses with his other hand to clean the lenses. When you get your hair cut, glasses must be taken off which gives the barber the perfect opportunity to apply poison. The barber has a pair of glasses in a glasses case when searched; these are likely the victim's pair. Additionally, the barber held back Conan from entering to prevent him, Kogoro, and the police inside from noticing his glasses fogged up and needed cleaning.

I will work on a more complete exposition later to make sure poisoning the glasses would result in the poison getting on the correct hand and cause poison stains in the right places. I also need to elaborate on how the barber would plan to make Saizu take the chopsticks with the proper hand after sitting in the right seat.

But i have one question chek, there was alot of cyanide found in his coat pocket right? thats why i thought hankerchief and how did the barber know his medication in his glasses ( i also considered this) most people notice if their glasses where switched.

[Chekhov MacGuffin 1089]

Here is the shot at the solution

I think the poison was applied to the left edge/arm of the frames Saizu's glasses and perhaps the bridge. When Saizu's glasses fogged as he entered, Saizu had to hold the frame of the glasses with his left hand to clean the lenses with the handkerchief in his right hand. This way, Saizu poisoned only his left hand index finger and thumb.

Only Taninaka has a shot at the glasses, having cut Saizu's hair. He had been out to eat with Saizu before, so he knows his habits. As Conan noted, Saizu's behavior was predictable in terms of where he would sit and what he would do. I assume Taninaka was the one who had the punk knock over the middle set of chopsticks during the day. He stopped Conan from getting chopsticks from Saizu, which would mostly likely have been held in his left in order to pass them to Conan. Additionally, the barber held back Conan from entering to prevent him, Kogoro, and the police inside from noticing his glasses fogged up and needed cleaning.

The barber exchanged Saizu's own poisoned glasses for similar looking ones that he was carrying when he approached Saizu's body. Note the glasses weren't right next to the body, and the barber knelt down by the body and the glasses in such a fashion that his body blocked Conan and Kogoro's view of the glasses.

There are a couple possible motives.

One is that Taninaka was friends with the dead lawyer and wanted vengeance. Perhaps he was also angry at Ogura Katsumasa for not breaking up the fight fast enough and wanted to get a dig in on him too. He also might not have cared about the ramen shop and just wanted the guy to die.

Another possibility is that the Taninaka was solely motivated by anger at Saizu. Also poisoning Saizu in the ramen shop might put it out of business and allow him to acquire the land to expand the barber shop's footprint.

Ogura Katsumasa wouldn't want to damage his own shop by using it for revenge.

Oohashi Sayo could possibly hold a grudge against the shop if she thought her father's death could have been prevented. Besides not having the means to get the poison where it was found, Sayo did order Saizu to leave before he tried to order anything. Sayo didn't get close to his body afterward. She also seemed very enthusiastic about the ramen, despite having low pay and few customers to help. I suppose that could be an act, but it was a genuine looking one. She could possibly be an accomplice, even though her only role would be to not replace the chopsticks. Taninaka could have committed the crime entirely on his own.

But i have one question chek, there was alot of cyanide found in his coat pocket right? thats why i thought hankerchief and how did the barber know his medication in his glasses ( i also considered this) most people notice if their glasses where switched.

One thing to keep in mind is that Saizu is not seen touching the handkerchief with his left hand at any point in time. Only his right hand touches it. Furthermore his left hand doesn't touch the fingertips of his right hand, so it is unlikely the poison transferred between fingertips.

When Saizu walks in, he has his left hand held up by his head (a pose after he put the glasses back on) and puts his handkerchief away with his right hand, which means he held the glasses by the frame with his left hand and used the handkerchief with his right. If the poison was on the handkerchief in quantity instead, his right hand would be poisoned, but not his left.

Takagi said later there was cyanide powder found in the inside pocket of the victim's jacket. I assume this is not the breast pocket where the hanky is. The poison may have got there if the poisoned glasses were in his inside pocket while getting barbered.

Saizu sits down at the counter and touches it with the fingertips of his left hand and the side of his right fist. He knocks over the glass of flowers, grabs and pulls out the handkerchief with his right hand, and mops up the mess.

I assume any trace poison on the counter would be mopped up and mostly erased. If the handkerchief had poison on it in a large enough concentration sufficient to poison someone's fingers, there should be traces of large smears of poison across a large portion of the tabletop. Also the police tested the handkerchief and said they didn't find anything on it. What Saizu does with his handkerchief is unknown after this, but putting a sopping wet handkerchief back in one's breast pocket doesn't make much sense. Although Oohashi Sayo had a handkerchief, she didn't approach the body, and I don't think the handkerchief would have dried by the time the police arrived if she swapped it.

Saizu then cups his hands and props up his chin after mopping up the mess, right hand over left. The right hand fingertips didn't contact his left hand ones. If the poison was on the handkerchief, the right hand would have poison on it and smeared it on the back of the left hand. The barber enters now. Saizu's left fist continues to prop up his chin while he drops his right. Saizu then grabs the water glass with his right hand and drinks water. His left elbow can be seen resting on the counter so presumably his left hand was touching the counter; this may have re-poisoned the counter with the small mark that was detected. The police say they found nothing on the glass he touched with his right hand.

He then grabbed the chopsticks with his left hand, touching them with his thumb and forefinger. He crossed his arms briefly, but didn't put his hand in his inside pocket by the looks of it. He then broke the chopsticks with his teeth. A maneuver like this would like mean his index finger and thumb contacted his lips. He then held the bowl with his right hand. No poison was found on it, this is another indicator that his right hand wasn't poisoned right before the crime.

[Aeyra 260]

How do you guys all think of these deductions? It's amazing...

[Detective Kudo 28]

I think the poison was applied to the left edge/arm of the frames Saizu's glasses and perhaps the bridge. The barber exchanged Saizu's own poisoned glasses for similar looking ones that he was carrying when he approached Saizu's body. Note the glasses weren't right next to the body, and the barber knelt down by the body and the glasses in such a fashion that his body blocked Conan and Kogoro's view of the glasses.

One thing to keep in mind is that Saizu is not seen touching the handkerchief with his left hand at any point in time. Only his right hand touches it. Furthermore his left hand doesn't touch the fingertips of his right hand, so it is unlikely the poison transferred between fingertips.

When Saizu walks in, he has his left hand held up by his head (a pose after he put the glasses back on) and puts his handkerchief away with his right hand, which means he held the glasses by the frame with his left hand and used the handkerchief with his right. If the poison was on the handkerchief in quantity instead, his right hand would be poisoned, but not his left.

Takagi said later there was cyanide powder found in the inside pocket of the victim's jacket. I assume this is not the breast pocket where the hanky is. The poison may have got there if the poisoned glasses were in his inside pocket while getting barbered.

Saizu sits down at the counter and touches it with the fingertips of his left hand and the side of his right fist. He knocks over the glass of flowers, grabs and pulls out the handkerchief with his right hand, and mops up the mess.

I assume any trace poison on the counter would be mopped up and mostly erased. If the handkerchief had poison on it in a large enough concentration sufficient to poison someone's fingers, there should be traces of large smears of poison across a large portion of the tabletop. Also the police tested the handkerchief and said they didn't find anything on it. What Saizu does with his handkerchief is unknown after this, but putting a sopping wet handkerchief back in one's breast pocket doesn't make much sense. Although Oohashi Sayo had a handkerchief, she didn't approach the body, and I don't think the handkerchief would have dried by the time the police arrived if she swapped it.

Saizu then cups his hands and props up his chin after mopping up the mess, right hand over left. The right hand fingertips didn't contact his left hand ones. If the poison was on the handkerchief, the right hand would have poison on it and smeared it on the back of the left hand. The barber enters now. Saizu's left fist continues to prop up his chin while he drops his right. Saizu then grabs the water glass with his right hand and drinks water. His left elbow can be seen resting on the counter so presumably his left hand was touching the counter; this may have re-poisoned the counter with the small mark that was detected. The police say they found nothing on the glass he touched with his right hand.

He then grabbed the chopsticks with his left hand, touching them with his thumb and forefinger. He crossed his arms briefly, but didn't put his hand in his inside pocket by the looks of it. He then broke the chopsticks with his teeth. A maneuver like this would like mean his index finger and thumb contacted his lips. He then held the bowl with his right hand. No poison was found on it, this is another indicator that his right hand wasn't poisoned right before the crime.

That makes sense after i looked over the first file, but Chek if the poison was on the glasses,how would the barber know his perscription and exact frame design(most people will notice any difference because there constant use cause a unique wear and tear)or so i have heard,so if it was on the glasses had poison on them it would be on his real glasses. Everyone was checked to see if they had anything with poison on them as well. In other words the barber couldn't have switched them out, espessially since Conan stopped them from coming close to touching anything of the victims.Thre poison was definatly applied to the victims real glasses at a very specific location, the barber showed up to ensure his plan went smoothly while the ramen owners had company.The poison was applied to the upper left leg of the glasses near the lenses, because further back and it would have touched his face, i don't know but i can't see how the barber could switch the glasses right in front of two detectives.

[Chekhov MacGuffin 1089]

That makes sense after i looked over the first file, but Chek if the poison was on the glasses,how would the barber know his perscription and exact frame design(most people will notice any difference because there constant use cause a unique wear and tear)or so i have heard,so if it was on the glasses had poison on them it would be on his real glasses.

He doesn't have to know. He just has to get a pair of glasses that look similar to the ones the vic had. The police are unlikely to check the glasses prescription to see if they actually are the vic's glasses. Also the poison was on the vic's real glasses. The one's Taninaka swapped in after Saizu died and are in police custody are fake.

Everyone was checked to see if they had anything with poison on them as well. In other words the barber couldn't have switched them out, espessially since Conan stopped them from coming close to touching anything of the victims.

Taninaka was definitely able to switch them out if he wanted. The glasses were a little ways from the body. Taninaka knelt down next to the body despite what Conan yelled. You can see from the art he knelt down so his body was between where the glasses were and Conan's line of sight. He could have swapped them out behind his back.

[Detective Kudo 28]

How do you guys all think of these deductions? It's amazing...

well, we are just "applying the formula of deduction to the equation of mystery" :wink: guess who said that

Yep, i understand this case now that we agree the poison was applied to his normal glasses and notswitched. :cool:

[Aeyra 260]

I can't wait until the next chapter comes out! (though I am slightly disappointed that I already know the answer...)

[tengaku squared 291]

I can't wait until the next chapter comes out! (though I am slightly disappointed that I already know the answer...)

Can you tell me?

[Aeyra 260]

Can you tell me?

Tell you when it comes out? Well, I subscribe to mangareader.net and it emails me whenever a new chapter is released...