gg1998
-
Content Count
125 -
Joined
-
Last visited
-
Days Won
2
Posts posted by gg1998
-
-
13 minutes ago, Serinox said:Again, a lot of speculation that's purely based on "It's not impossible." Oh well.
Okay, but we know what Rumi assumed: she assumed he would kill her, since she brought Conan to her apartment for him to figure out the case and even bought extra plates and cups in case his friends would join them. Her actions clearly show that she assumed the murder would take place. Would Masumi in such a situation do what Rumi did or would she somehow try to prevent it?
Again that's a speculation to begin with as you mentioned before. Why it's safe to assume that Conan was invited by Rumi so that he can solve the murder? I think Rumi never anticipated that the murder would happen in the first place that's why she created a scenario to invite Conan so that she can go on with her business. Because Conan will be very much inclined to solve a murder and the police will throng the place so cutting the time for Rumi to act on her original plan, so forcing Conan to solve a murder makes no tangible gains for Rumi's plan. It's(The assertion you made) a classic example of posthoc fallacy(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post_hoc_ergo_propter_hoc), like the Rooster crows that's why the sun rises.
Even if you argue that Rumi was testing him, I would counter you by highlighting Rumi's introductory case. That was the test and Conan passed it with flying colours.
-
4 hours ago, Serinox said:No, since Sera and Mary don't have disguise capabilities as far as we know.
Is it? Where I come from, using "Hello, my name is X, I am X years old and I'm working as an X" is a common way to introduce yourself to a larger group.
Kobayashi told her? Surely they had a meeting beforehand, preparing the upcoming lessons and doing smalltalk.
How do you pretend to be an elementary school teacher all day, six days a week, while you also are attending high school at the same time and have a social life there? Also, would Masumi take the risk to let Ayumi die? Would Masumi just accept the death of Banno's girlfriend, just to test Conan, which she doesn't need to do anymore, since she already knows he is smart? Seems pretty impossible to me.
- All I'm saying is a possibility.
- In my native place that sort of introduction is just plain stupid and the whole class would be laughing their asses off, not judging your native place though but that's how it is in my native place. Teachers don't introduce themselves by plainly stating their age. Their age is irrelevant only their names matter.
- Even if I consider that's normal in Japan still using someone else's age as a benchmark sounds off to me.
- Maybe she's on a leave. If she knows reverse psychology that's a pretty safe bet to wager with. As for Banno's girlfriend's death we're again assuming something. For us, "Manga readers" the phrase that it's your last meal means that I'll murder you but let's assume in real life you witness a warring couple and one of them says" it's your last dinner" under his/her breath. What would you assume? Possible murder or possible separation?
- So making Rumi indifferent to a murder would be judging Rumi from a biased perspective. I'm willing to give Rumi the benefit of doubt, because if I were there in her place I would also have ignored it.
-
15 hours ago, Chekhov MacGuffin said:Honestly Mary's probably just paranoid because someone attempted to give her a strange drug to kill her but turned her into a kid, which makes her question other strange children like Conan. I honestly think Mary's statement is about as profound as: "Gee, Conan now acts a lot older than he appears to be, probably because he is an adult turned into a kid. So, like, don't assume he will be the same as an actual 6-year old and underestimate him, I guess lol."
Overall, this is one of Gosho's typical trash clues. Gosho's repeat tactic is making a suspect character seem malicious by having them say something vaguely sinister - in this case the same thing Gin said. Remember when lots of people thought there was a deep meaning to Okiya's creepier lines, but then they mostly all turned out to be complete throwaways that didn't warrant any explanation? I remember. The way you avoid falling for Gosho's trap is remembering that actions are everything, words are worthless. Mary was willing to confirm her presence, abilities, and knowledge to Conan by using the bowtie in front of him and taking out a culprit instead of letting him get away. That's an overall sign of trust, although she may not be willing to fully cooperate and exchange info. (Because when does an Akai ever share info? Younger sis doesn't even know older brother 2 plays shogi. Pretty unhealthy family dynamics there.)
<hr>
All these speculations about Wakita being BO or whatever are premature. He has yet to do anything of importance and little that would give clues about his allegiance. It would be nice if everyone patiently waited for his second spotlight case before declaring him Rum's mentor or somesuch. Wakita has a better chance of being Amuro's former boxing instructor for all we know now.
I was thinking about the implications of Mary's caution. Is it probable for Sera to disguise as someone else and then approach Conan for his help during Koji case?
Another point too, I'm also seeing a certain dichotomy in Rumi's behaviour she has great detective skills but won't hide her hatred to a suspicious one eyed person. Her glaring forced Kuroda to say that whether she's ok with the case being investigated by the police or not?
Also Rumi mentioning that she's 10 years older than Kobayshi-sensei is kinda odd, firstly mentioning your age to your students is just plain stupid, secondly how did she know Kobayashi's age ?we also know that that the robbery case happened 10 years ago and Conan met Sera also 10 years ago.
So can Sera be Rumi? What's your thought on this?
-
In file 953, around the ending panels Mary cautions Sera about Conan by claiming that the later has changed over the period of 10 years. It's like encountering a demon in the darkness.
- Probably the reason of her thought is Conan's manipulation of Kogoro for his own needs.
- So does Mary think that Conan in future might use Sera as a mean to achieve his ultimate goals?
- How is it going to affect Conan and Sera's relation?
- Also Mary and Gin used exactly same proverb in that chapter, is there something common between Gin and Mary?
-
1 hour ago, Serinox said:Are you talking about Kokuri? He is a producer at the TV station where the show was going to air, he is not Hotta's manager.
Even then, he couldn't have went on with plan of inviting Kogoro if Hotta wasn't interested in the first place. So I think as somehow Kogoro was linked to the case he has to be on Rum's radar.That's point which prompts me to consider Wakita as Rum.
-
18 hours ago, Serinox said:Kogoro wasn't invited by Gaito. And the BO only know that Kogoro was involved in the case, not necessarily that he was supposed to work on the Koji case for the TV show with Gaito.
There's a definite invitation coming to Kogoro from Hotta's manager. Hotta's manager doesn't do anything without his concurrence. BO won't just chill out with the fact that Kogoro was involved, they will investigate it and eventually will find out that Kogoro was invited.
Rum will closely follow Hotta's case and as Kogoro is the only tangible link after Hotta's murder, Kogoro would make a good starting point for Rum's investigation. Rum surely won't want sleeping Kogoro coming after him, so he would first try to assess the situation and if need arises then bump off Kogoro.
Mod edit: Please don't link to English manga.
-
Hail
-
3 hours ago, MeiTanteixX said:If Wakita was behind Mary's shrinking, then it would imply that he had access to APTX. That would at the very least make him a code-named member(in ranking), since only Gin and Pisco are so far confirmed to have been authorized to use it(two code-named agents).
Overall however, I'm leaning more towards Wakita being a teacher-figure within the BO(hence the "ashita no joe" reference). I can see him being Rum's mentor, hence his possibly-foreshadowed critisizing of "pirate spirit"(Rum). Since Gin wanted to do something about Kogoro(the detective he has suspected for so long), and since Wakita's involvement could be the result of his actions, I wouldn't put past Wakita being a mentor figure to Gin as well(hence why he relied on an older higher-up, despite his portrayed trust issues with people in general).
For the first part it's a big leap to take. I won't think that Mary's shrinking was Wakita's doing, though it's popular theory based on association of two following cases. I would rather keep the shrinking of Mary out of Rum's identity discussion. To be honest Mary isn't a sitting duck, I think there's more to it, than random assasination attempts.
When I re-evaluated Wakita's conversation with Kogoro, one thing stood out, unlike Bourbon Wakita wants to accompany Kogoro to his next murder case, not Kogoro's next case, not being an apprentice in his office. This strikes to me as he is only interested in accompanying him to murder scene. If he really wanted to investigate Kogoro it's better to get into his office. Also we're assuming that Gin is making a move and Rum is just chilling out.
I think Rum should be more anxious and wary and due to Kogoro's involvement in the soul detective case, Kogoro will come under Rum's radar as Kogoro has the fame of being a genius detective.
The criticism of "Pirate-Spirit" has a double meaning, on the cover it seems that it's a weak player so betting on it is irrational. But Pirate spirit despite all odds did win the race and Kogoro despite all odds bet on it and came out victorious.(As far as Wakita was concerned). So maybe we can also look it as a compliment to Kogoro who can identify diamonds lying in the ruff.
There was also second in command of Boss appearing in Kamen-Yaiba reference, but let's forget it I don't like those stuff. They are often distractions than not.
Also let's not forget about the news which Wakita was reading, it's a news report of 7th/8th page. Now Wakasa Rumi's heroics is a front page news due to the involvement of the golfer, it can't be a kid's case report as that's also a front page news. So what was it? Hotta Gaito case maybe?
-
1 hour ago, DCUniverseAficionado said:This is more like 2 questions and 12 related points than a single "counter question," but okay.
Why does it have to be Rum who's using Kogoro to try and find the uploader? A rival of Rum's within the BO would be just as interested in a big mistake from his past. A chance to show up Rum and gain the Boss' favor and approval, and all at Rum's expense? A rival of Rum's definitely wouldn't pass such an opportunity up.
For all we know—whether Kanenori is Rum or another high-ranking BO member—the Boss didn't authorize Kanenori to go investigate Kogoro. This could be a completely independent effort, on his part—either to clean up his 17-year-old mistake... or to do what his rival, Rum, couldn't, to show him up, and show the Boss who is really worthy.
You misquoted me, I never implied that Rum is trying to use Kogoro to find the uploader, all I said that's it;s rational for Rum to investigate the only tangible link (Kogoro) wrt to his past screw-up.
I just tossed a possibility that Rum might think that the uploader had already contacted Kogoro about the Haneda case ,as it's a well known fact that Kogoro was involved in the Hotta Gaito case.
Another member of BO trying digup Rum's shit after flouting Boss' orders, I don't think it's likely,though I won't discard it.
I just posed the counter question with my analysis, so that you can defend your position and at the same time you can evaluate my analysis for scrutiny.
-
36 minutes ago, DCUniverseAficionado said:Too shady, if you ask me. While I do think he's BO—and a high ranking member, in fact—I don't think he's Rum.
A good reasoned thought, but I can pose a counter question to you.
- Why is he so adamant to accompany Kogoro to Kogoro's next murder case? If he was here to investigate Kogoro, then he would be doing things on the line of Bourbon, like showing interests in his method, getting access to his office, investigating his knowledge about the Kohji case etc. But here this guy wants to go with him on a murder case(mind it not even Kogoro's next case).
- Firstly I was also discarding him as someone with BO but not Rum, but now as I look the thing more closely, I'm getting a sense that he is becoming the prime Rum suspect.
- If we go by the chapter before his introduction, Gin tells Vodka that he's anxious about Kogoro's involvement in the case and Hotta Gaito might be an interesting lead for Rum, but it's not for Gin.
- So, Hotta is dead and we can think that Rum's interest is gone and only thing remaining is Gin.
- Now BO has Bourbon, the finest BO mind working just beneath Kogoro's office, so why they need another agent to look into Kogoro. It's not like that BO wants to kill Kogoro, they will investigate first and then kill him if the necessity arises.
- Why waste another resource on the same stuff? (BO has shown faith in Bourbon during ASACA song case.)
- But Rum should be very wary after this string of online exposes about the Haneda Kohji case and Kogoro being invited by Hotta Gaito( Who knew something about the case) can put Kogoro into Rum's radar.
- So there's a possibility for Rum to come out and test the waters, because the only two thing can become a hurdle in his path.
- Firstly the persevering uploader of Kohji case.
- Secondly, if Kogoro takes an interest in the case or the uploader sends the Case to Kogoro.
- Rum is yet to dig up the uploader, so Kogoro seems to be a good starting point for Rum's investigation.
-
My vote goes to Wakita. He's the shadiest of them all. You just can't meet a famous detective and insist to take you on the next murder case(not even his next case). That's a given thing that he's there to do bad stuff to Kogoro.
-
Why Wakita is not in the poll?
-
Regarding to the thing in Rumi's pocket I've got an approximate size description of the thing.
- From Manga file 989, we can deduce that Rumi's pocket was of 3.5'' deep. The thing which was there in it looked to have length around 28% of the pocket's depth and it's length and breadth ratio was 2:1 roughly.
- So if we do the math we will get that the thing in Rumi's pocket is pointed pentagon, with bigger base around 1" and the breadth of the bigger side is around .5".
-
Regarding to the thing in Rumi's pocket I've got an approximate size description of the thing.
- From Manga file 989, we can deduce that Rumi's pocket was of 3.5'' deep. The thing which was there in it looked to have length around 28% of the pocket's depth and it's length and breadth ratio was 2:1 roughly.
- So if we do the math we will get that the thing in Rumi's pocket is pointed pentagon, with bigger base around 1" and the breadth of the bigger side is around .5".
-
4 hours ago, MeiTanteixX said:
The "dokkun" SFX is here as well during Subaru's intro, so your reasoning doesn't make sense. Other than this, how do you explain all the other times when she felt BO scent and there were heartbeats sfx?
The "mal-intent" that she senses from BO people is the same as the BO scent(another layer of its functionality), and it's an 100% established pattern that every person that BO triggered her are BO affiliated. In Subaru's case, the only confirmed living male that has triggered her in the past(prior to Subaru) is Rye, and in Rumi's case, the only confirmed living female that has triggered her in the past(prior to Rumi) is Vermouth.
I was referring to Subaru's presence in the first chapter of the Ikkaku rock case.There if you look closely then you won't find any Dokkun, only BO pressure, but here there's a would-be murderer among the mix. So how can you be so sure that the Dokkun was due to Subaru but not due to the murderer, even it can be a combined effect of Subaru and the murderer? I think a better description would be when Subaru and Haibara were in a direct one to one scenario and Dokun occurred.
Rumi didn't BO trigger her, Rumi's glare triggered pressure, that's not equal to BO pressure on Haibara. It's just an intense pressure.
- Subaru is a well wisher of Haibara.
- Subaru is Akai in disguise.
- Let's make a claim that Subaru invoked Dokkun when Haibara saw him.
- Now despite good intentions Haibara's BO sense buzzes off, if anyone(even ex) BO members are around her, that's the conclusion we can draw.
- Rumi during her introduction or her later interactions with Haibara, didn't invoke Dokkun.
- Rumi's anger towards a third party invoked Dokkun in Haibara.
- So there's only a single conclusion that can be drawn on Rumi.
- When she thinks about the said third-party Haibara's BO sense perks up, otherwise she isn't much of a BO member.
- SO Rumi as a person is so close to Haibara that even Haibara's BO sense can't pick her scent when Rumi is under normal conditions.
- But Haibara's parents are supposedly dead and her sister is surely dead. Then how is this possible?
- This means only one conclusion Rumi's intent was so malicious during the incident that it could have been only paralleled by a BO member.
- Nothing else you can draw from this, everything else is just mere wishful speculations.
-
The thing which Haibara felt during Rumi's glare was an intense pressure despite that she wasn't the object of that pressure, comparable to the Ikkau Rocks' disappearing fish case, when Subaru was confronting the the criminal Subaru's glare invoked exactly same feeling for Haibara. But when Subaru was appeared in the first chapter Haibara felt the BO pressure, that BO pressure was devoid of Dokkun, but the glare was there with Dokkun.
So Rumi's glare invoking "Dokkun" in Haibara is proof of Rumi's deathly/mal-intent doesn't mean she's a member of BO. If that was the case haibara would have felt the BO pressure.
Dokkun=Mal-intent(Irrespective of BO affiliation)
BO Pressure= BO confirmed.
-
45 minutes ago, Chekhov MacGuffin said:Not sure if BO smell or just reacting to mal-intent. Haibara has reacted to general mal-intent in a few previous cases, but has never claimed it was the BO smell and been incorrect about it. My point of reference is that her reaction was muted in this latest case when Rumi did the "LetS StAb aYumI toGetheR, HeehEEHee" culprit distraction gambit. The scenario was pretty much 1 to 1 with Okiya on Ikkaku rock, yet Ai didn't have nearly the same degree of feeling.
Hmm, but when Rumi was glaring after hearing the sentence containing Prosthetic, Ai's senses perked up. So Rumi was harbouring mal-intent back then but wasn't doing the same when she was tackling the murderer with reverse psychological tricks. That also explains why she cautioned Conan not to badmouth Rumi.
-
1 hour ago, DCUniverseAficionado said:So you're saying its not a BO sense that Shiho/Ai has?
All I'm saying is that her sense is not limited in sniffing out BO members. It's more of a sense of sniffing out mal-intentions around her. Generally the BO people around her gives off the mal-scent, but they're not the only ones who do that.
-
1 hour ago, MeiTanteixX said:I'm curious about your opinion on Haibara getting BO-triggered by Rumi.
Intent matters, BO or not irrelevant. Haibara can sniff out killing intent, just like she sniffed out mal intent from Kuroda but later recognized that his aura was scary. Similar case, it's not like Haibara's reaction equates BO affiliation, but mal intention for sure.
-
Anyone else watching Kubikiri cycle? Personally I think it's a great anime.
-
40 minutes ago, Chekhov MacGuffin said:Well, going back to what I said before, I think you were holding certain assumptions to be true that are currently not supported one way or the other, and you were getting called out for that. Two of ones I noticed is that you insisted several times that disguise was involved, and that Amanda's bodyguard was effective and certain to be a major obstacle for Amanda's killer. That's why in the story version I came up with on the spot above, I purposefully presented a viable option where disguise was not necessary and the bodyguard was easily dealt with.
It was my interpretation of the events. The way in which I proposed my case to you didn't contradict with the story-line, you can say that disguises being present wasn't mentioned, so was their absence. All I'm getting that it's a possibility. Now calling possibilities baseless isn't calling people out. I can also say that your solution relies on Amanda staying in the neighbouring room/next room to Haneda's room and Haneda being invited to join the chess competition by Amanda isn't supported by the story-line(though not opposed), but should I resort to call your theory baseless? Or should I say that despite your interpretation I'm inclined to think otherwise?
-
46 minutes ago, Chekhov MacGuffin said:It would super uncharacteristic of Gosho to mess up on a scene like this where the clue is simple, front and center. That bottom right blob, whatever it is, is definitely something real and intended. It may not be attached to the shogi piece - there could be 2 items in her pocket, but I honestly think it's all one thing because usually Gosho doesn't over-complicate things.
Did some searching, it can be like this also
-
36 minutes ago, Chekhov MacGuffin said:That's a fine interpretation of events. But as I said several replies up, that is but one version of many potential stories that could be told. Here's one I came up with just now. Amanda is a Kohji fan, so she wanted to watch him play the American chess tournament. She checked into the hotel where the tournament was taking place in a room adjacent to Kohji's, maybe even one of those family rooms which has an adjoining door. Perhaps the killer, let's assume Rum because why not, it's his arc, stayed in the hotel as a chess competitor because the BO figured that Kohji would draw Amanda out. Rum could move without much scrutiny because as a chess player, he was scheduled and expected to be there. He doesn't even need a disguise if he knows how to exploit a time to act in where he can move without scrutiny. So sometime during the tourni, Rum sleeping-drugged the bodyguard with the intent to frame him/her, duplicated the Amanda's room key card, made sure the coast was clear, and went to Amanda's room to kill her. Unfortuntly Kohji next door heard something amiss and poked his head in, thus necessitating his murder. That part didn't go well and Kohji had time to leave a dying message. Maybe Rum got distracted for a bit because his eye got poked. Regardless Rum vanished back into the tournament like nothing happened (he could call in Vermouth to disguise as him while he relays her moves) and the bodyguard was left as the main suspect, so they took pictures/grabbed clues desperately in hopes their name would be cleared and revenge for Kohji and Amanda would be had one day and then ran for it. The end.
That's what I was intending, it's fine interpretation without contradicting the real plot-line. But let's say if someone comes up to your reply and calls your interpretation baseless what would you do? Because they're hell bent on their speculations that they would go as far as calling your theory baseless despite their's being unconfirmed.
-
1 minute ago, Chekhov MacGuffin said:I don't know who is saying only one of those two is consistent, because it wasn't me.
Based on the website's testimony and the BO's MO, I do think Haneda Kohji's murder was either unplanned or planned but badly botched. In past BO cases that were part of the current timeline, the drug was a tool of last resort. Gin only dosed Shinichi at Tropical Land because a gunshot might have attracted nearby police. Gin approved Pisco's use of the drug if it was needed, but the main version of the plan was to drop a chandelier on the target's head and make it look like an accident. If the drug was used seventeen years ago when there was presumably even less data to support its efficacy than there is currently, that suggests circumstances were not ideal for Kohji's killer - assuming they were BO (and so far only BO have used the drug to kill).
Second, we lack a motive for Kohji's murder. Based on what Conan said, Amanda Hughes could have been a target because of her standing and connections to American law enforcement. Her murder was executed "cleanly" (exact method is unknown) which suggests prior intent and planning. All we know about Haneda Kohji now is that he was a shogi champion who many people thought could obtain all seven titles, and was decent at chess too apparently. Prior victims of the BO tend to be political inconveniences, spies, related to operatives, accomplices, or tools related to the research programs. Kohji doesn't seem to fall into any of those categories (for now), except that Amanda was his fan, which doesn't seem like a good reason to kill him on its own. If there isn't an obvious motive, then it becomes logical to assume that his murder was premeditated because it was convenient (e.g. to get him out of the way somehow) or it was not premeditated at all and he was killed because of an unexpected circumstance at the crime scene (e.g. he became a witness). Either way, the execution was messy, which is uncharacteristic for the BO and probably relates to Rum's screw-up.
Finally, looking at the big picture, in regular non-arc cases by Gosho, a messy crime scene where a dying message is left is by the victim is usually indicative of the murderer not being done cleanly, one that went wrong halfway, or one that was unplanned. Cases like this include The Antique Collector Murder Case, Alpine Hut in the Snowy Mountain Murder Case, Megure's Sealed Secret (Sonoko's close call specifically), The Secret Rushed Omission, The Lay Down and Wash Your Face Case, The Shadow Approaching Haibara's Secret (state of crime scene hut), and Taii's Owner Attack case (Kind of, no dying message but is a spur of the moment attack that resulted in damages to a table.
My best guess is that some member of the Black Organization murdered Haneda - because he is on the poisoned-with-APTX list - but that was not an intended or desirable method. Currently I am more inclined to think that Kohji's murder was not planned, rather than it being planned for convenience, but that is mostly based on my hunches about the evidence and my general observation that everyone but Gin seems to like killing the fewest people possible on missions. I can't really say one way or the other.
What do you think of these reasons?
All I'm saying that there's a possibility of Haneda's murder being necessary for smoothly murdering Amanda.
- If we look at the things Amanda was wary that someone is after her, that's why she got a Bodyguard.
- Amanda was staying in a Hotel in USA, so it's highly unlikely that someone just comes in and murders her. If anyone wanted to murder her, they would have to pose as her visitor.
- But Amanda was wary and she won't let anyone in, without proper scrutiny.
- Suddenly her old acquaintance Haneda Koji comes up and stayed in the same Hotel.
- She trusted Haneda Kojhi.
- It's fairly easy for someone to pose as Haneda and then hand her the poisoned stuff. As she trusted Haneda , the culprit didn't even need to force it.
- But if the real Koji comes up then the whole plan is going to fail.
- That's why Koji was murdered so that whole thing remain underneath.
- This also explains that why the BG, wasn't able to stop the killer.
Mary Discussion Thread
in Manga series
Posted · Report reply