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I've done a little math recently, and some facts had made an interesting possible history that makes sense for the B.O. .. We all know of the claim of Ai's that the BO is older than half a century, possibly 50+ years for the existence of the B.O. . We also know based from the appearance of Gin that he is of 30- early 40's years old, if he is at the maximum age of 45 which is doubtful. There is a gap of a minimum 5 years before he was even born to the existence of the B.O. an assumption based on the fact that Gin does not know of the deaging neither he is the type to disguise himself as younger. Pulling the fact that B.O. existing before Gin, it is most likely contains of more members than we know of. We know Rum is 2nd in command, and Vermouth is Anokata's favorite. It is sensible that Anokata have supervising agents under him, who are most likely the founding members. It would make sense if they are 7 original founding members after which the tune for Anokata the Nanatsu no kou is made, however the 7 original members is a weak theory. But to attach it to another theory of mine, it would make things more possible and sensible. The other theory I'm talking about is one of the purposes of the B.O. is to control lots of money through mafia like techniques, for example the B.O. specifically Anokata as to empower himself has had groomed potential people under him so they can be the leaders of their subjects, for instance Vermouth a leading actress, Gin a leading mercenary. However it is safe to assume that Anokata in appearance is an old Japanese man with a wealthy company as a front, due to the fact that if he was deaged or stayed young in any way he wuld be aware of the deaging effects and would have no reason not to tell Gin his loyal agent to look for a child Sherry. Anokata is careful to the extreme, but he trusts Gin more than the others and would have told him to look for young Sherry without the knowledge of others. Speaking of loyalty, another issue is the basis on which Anokata assigns his agents. Other than skills and exceptional physiques, it is quite obvious that Anokata regards loyalty more than anything behind only the secrecy, as seen when he orders the murder of Pisco an old member of the B.O. . For Rum to be 2nd in command it would mean he is more loyal than Gin and probably more skillful. Regarding Pisco, he did say to Gin that if Gin kills him who is an old member would jeopardize Gin's own status in the B.O. . Hence Pisco is more likely an older member than Gin, thus that would draw the question whether there are more members who are more loyal and older than Gin and perhaps more important. If we assume the original 7 members is a correct theory, one of which is Rum, the 2nd is Vermouth being Anokata's favorite out of the 7. There are still 5 members that we know nothing about, However, if we think about the reason why Anokata wanted to assassinate that politician for he was a possible future prime minister and was hard on crime, and on the words of Ai regarding the arrest of the B.O.'s members that 'unbelievable characters would be caught' it is safe to assume that there is someone in the politics who is an associate of Anokata. However, I don't think that bribery would be the connection but rather a matter of loyalty, hence one of the original 7 is most likely a politician, perhaps the current prime minister whom Anokata is trying to keep in that position. Rum, Vermouth and Politician Agent (PA), there are still 4 members. We know for a fact that Anokata is readily accepting and wants the death of Sherry who was trained and groomed to be a leading scientist inside the B.O., assuming Anokata is not a scientist himself but a corporate leader, it means someone is supervising the science/programming wing of the B.O. under the boss directly. As Anokata who is ready to kill Sherry, probably have people who can replace her. Someone who knows what happens in the science department and is a scientist who tells Anokata of everything happening and therefore Anokata knows who is doing what, and also the supervisor makes sure everyone is doing their job. It could be though, that this supervisor is Daikouko/Rentarou who went with Sherry to the Mermaid Island to see if there is any scientific component that could help on the progress of the drug. 3 members are left, following this theory. The 5th member, is most likely someone who provides money for Anokata's researches. As no matter how rich Anokata is, he alone with several companies under him would be insufficient to provide for research and international relations and deals alone. Someone who did help Anokata before Anokata could become so rich, someone with a mansion of Gold. Which kind of puts Karasuma Renya in the right place (lol), if we presume it is so for a second, then rather than a leader he was one of the original members under Anokata, and his death triggered the visit of the two men (who are probably B.O.) to visit his place and reclaim his money to continue their research. He was rich enough to provide for the B.O. and his age puts him at a perfect age for a starting experienced member, his name though is either a pun or an alias. the last two members, could be both dead or one is alive or the both are still alive. If they are not dead, then one of them could be Anokata himself as the 7th member. if not then the two are different members, one of which would have to had international influence for the B.O. to expand so fast and so wide. Maybe an american, who acts as a supervising leader in the U.S. He/she is probably a business person with many contacts. The last member, if not Anokata, would be the eyes for Anokata. Someone who can tell Anokata of everything that is happening inside the B.O., he tells him of Gin's loyalty/ Vermouth's wild actions/ frictions between the members, which would explain how Anokata is keeping everyone so loyal. He could be though the person who sat next to Akai in the to be meeting with Gin, but could be a different person. Rum, who made a mistake 17 years ago. Could be a 2nd Rum after the death of the 1st, could be the same person but who's unquestionable loyalty made Anokata overlook the mistake and keep him alive. All we know, for Rum to investigate the B.O. for spies and for making a mistake 17 years ago would make him an old person as one of his descriptions is. And is like mentioned have unquestionable loyalty, and for such a person to exist he must know Anokata personally and might have been with Anokata ever since the creation of BO making him very old. Though unlikely, but Kuruda could be one of those original members rather than being Rum. Or a turned member, who was originally a B.O. but after a mistake was to be eliminated, but survived and now seeks revenge. He is still too mysterious, but he is no supporter of B.O, as he would have known and reported Sherry like Pisco had almost done. Gosho-sama's 2016 interview made a very vague answer about mixed ethnicity, but Gin and Vermouth's appearance are not entirely Japanese. Vermouth for all we know is American, Gin might be of mixed Japanese with possibly German blood, due to his blonde appearance and his favorite Porsche is a reminiscent of Germany. I doubt Pisco was as skilled as Chianto and Korn, but nevertheless was more high ranking due to his loyalty and more time spent in the B.O than them. Kir's assumed loyalty made her instantly earn her code name. Gin told Pisco that he was famous and powerful thanks to the B.O. which supports the claim that the B.O. grooms future leaders. Vodka could be an original member who is the 'eyes of Anokata' who reports everything to him, lol which would explain why Gin wanted to shoot him as he was probably annoying as to report every little detail but was dim witted sometimes. Also explains why he always wears black sunglasses, the hidden eyes of Anokata lol, but I guess it was a mere clothing appearance Gosho-sama thought was cool. Anokata, is probably like mentioned, an old Japanese company owner, with a corporate that acts as a front for his other life as a leader of a powerful organization. Therefore he is an old Japanese person who wears a business suit, cautious to the extreme, have a love for the detective fiction, and is ruthless as he orders the death of any agent who jeopardize his secret operations no matter who is the agent. Being such ruthless would indicate that Anokata himself had to have at least once committed a crime by his own hands probably a murder to become this ruthless and to lead a secret life to hide an old murder??!! . A running theory is that Vermouth is Anokata's daughter being the romantic person near Gin would jeopardize her relationship with Anokata had she's been a wife or a lover to him. To allow intimate relations between his agents; Vermouth/Gin/Sherry/Akemi/Rye etc. rather than formal relationship, might indicate Anokata's desire for inbreeding between his agents to result in the agents of the future, that is if he does even know about the relationships between his agents. And Anokata's name is probably famous as we know him, Haibara would be shocked to know it is him, meaning she knows his real name, as per a previous interview made with Gosho-sama who said that if you know the B.O.'s real name you will know Anokata, and is someone whom we would remember instantly. His wealth also makes him famous among his peers in his alter ego. Hope it makes sense XD ..

I felt we needed a thread for discussion of suspicious and recurring arc characters like Hyoue Kuroda, Wakasa Rumi, Sakurako Yonehara and others so we have a place to talk about them outside of their intro chapters and the Rum thread. I figured there might be more continuous discussion if I lumped all the suspicious arc characters into one thread rather than give each one a separate thread. Secret spies? Enemies of the Organization? Hidden backstories? False identities? Awesome? Stupid? Please post theories and comments about these characters here!

Hmm, not much to really say at this point... Hyoue Kuroda - There's a part of me that wonders if Kuroda is going to be actually impactful to the plot, or if he's just another police member who seems to know about Conan's intelligence. He was first introduced with the Nagano police, and it's not as if Kansuke (especially him in particular), Yui and Komei haven't noticed his intelligence as well. It would seem to me that he was pretty much set up as the overly suspicious character the moment he was introduced so that he can be considered a Rum suspect, since his character introduction was not far off from the moment Haibara mentioned Rum having an artificial eye, and Rum's intro speech at the end of Scarlet... but I think he's definitely too suspicious to be Rum, and after the Blog case/Yoko Higo follow up, I think there is next to no chance that this could even be the case. That being said, I do think that his memory loss may come up as some form of plot point in the future, or that might have to do with Haibara not sensing him being part of the organization, or him not recognizing Shiho in her child-like state. I think this is a stretch at best, but I can't say I'd really be against it either. It'd be a change from the norm, and I doubt there are many people that actually think Kuroda is Rum. I think it was DCA who pointed it out in another thread, but Haibara didn't sense Bourbon/Vermouth in the Cherry Blossom Case with Jodie. I'm not sure if this was a mistake on Gosho's part or is supposed to imply something, but every other time, after the introduction of this "mechanic" or whatever you want to call it (Mysterious Passenger), she has sensed "something"... That is, aside from Numabuchi's debut, where she offers the explanation that she might not have sensed it because she is starting to live a normal life. Perhaps she can't sense Kuroda for similar reasons, but again, kinda just grasping at straws to make some sense out of it. The rest... Sakurako Yonehara - I really don't think Yonehara will have much, if any importance to the story. I'm not even sure I'd mark her as suspicious, though it is odd that we'd have a character like her latch onto Conan's double personality for no reason at all. After a couple more appearances from her, and some backstory in the Yumi/Shuukichi case, I don't think she is really suspicious, or that she will serve anything but some type of connection between the Tokyo MPD characters, and might exist now for the sake of Chiba/Naeko's romance. I've seen the suggestion brought up that she has some type of connection to Rum, but I don't see it, or that she might be the Araide of the Rum arc. Wakasa Rumi - My personal thoughts on the character are a bit conflicted, and I'm certainly a bit annoyed with her, and how Gosho is presenting us with another potential Rum suspect. The name itself is silly, and pretty much so suspicious that it's not really that suspicious... and her having this fake Eisuke-like persona also strikes me as unnecessary, since it's basically revealed to be a hoax in the end chapter. While the whole fight scene didn't come off as bad as I thought it would, I'm still not pleased with it, and introducing all these characters, be it some martial art, or just that they are capable of beating up the villains doesn't really sit well with me. It's got out of hand over the years. I really have no clue what this character's purpose is. Potential spy, maybe? MI6? I don't think so, since I'm kinda betting on Mary for that specifically... but can't really see the link to some of the newer agencies that were introduced as well, be it PSB or NPA. Not sure what her goal is either. Is it to simply investigate Conan? What's the point in that? Aside from Kuroda, none of these characters really seem to match up well with Rum's description given by Haibara, which seemed to describe men specifically, but even more odd is that none of them seem to have this eye problem, which was the only thing consistent across the rumors. Are we supposed to ignore that and just treat everyone as a Rum suspect? I'm not sure how you can have such a defining trait and still pass this off as a successful mystery. Are we just going to get a slew of characters with a prosthetic eye? Surely that won't happen... Asaka - I don't really have any particularly strong reasoning for it, but I don't necessarily think that Rum has to be Asaka based on the hint on the mirror. I think Conan and Akai coming to this conclusion seems a bit contrived, and the whole scenario just strikes me as odd. Wakasa Rumi could be Asaka but not Rum, but that might be too obvious given the name (but a perfect opportunity, since she could also easily have been the body-guard 17 years ago given her age, and the silhouette looks young... and she seems to have a similar hair-style as the vague photo presented to us) Mary - Don't really see how she is going to be anything but an ally, but they've definitely tried to make her suspicious, with the copy of Gin's line, or Conan even contemplating about her fitting the description of Rum (but ignoring some of the more crucial details in the process). Probably won't see any more answers, or what exactly she means about Shinichi not being the same person 10 years ago until we see that fated flashback case (who knows when at this point). I think she will have some ties to MI6 given the British connections, the two mothers being sisters (assuming they are Elena and Mary), her light hair, foreign name, and her activities in the Romance novelist case (when analyzing Conan's listening device) and the Soul Detective Case where she shows extremely athletic capabilities. I'm still a bit conflicted there since I don't think someone of her size should be able to do such a thing, but mostly because of her sickly state that was presented to us right from her debut. It just caught me completely off-guard... (even though I never really considered such a thing "impossible" since she is an Akai) - Conan initially found it impossible to catch the culprits with his child body, but I guess he isn't trained to the extent Mary has been so you can kinda accept it if you really want to... Might add a bit more later. Nothing much to really say that already hasn't been.