Chekhov MacGuffin
-
Content Count
2150 -
Joined
-
Last visited
-
Days Won
212
Posts posted by Chekhov MacGuffin
-
-
Now that I look at it, Mitsuhiko's parent's gender is drawn a bit ambiguously. I suppose it could go either way.I thought that person is Mitsuhiko's mom... Anyway, he doesn't appears again.
-
It's been a little under twelve years since Kaito Kid found out in the films. If it was to be I think it would have happened by now.That's true, but that could mean it will happen in the near future like Shiratori and Yamamura's promotion...
-
The problem is that the movies are not canon to the main manga storyline. Sometimes things trickle down like Shiratori and Yamamura's promotion, but most of it never happens manga-wise. A perfect example is how Kid knows Conan is Shinichi in the movies, but doesn't know in the manga.Takagi defended Shinichi in Raven Chaser. Remember when everyone was asking where was Shinichi, and that he hadn't publicly solved a case in a while, Takagi immediately responded about the case during the Desperate Revival Arc so no one would get suspicious. Why would he say that so protectively? Megure hushed him because he didn't suppose to talk about that case to anyone,thus also protecting Shinichi.
I wouldn't have belived kogoro knew until Stategy above the depths movie. He also questioned conan's identity and why he gets knocked out before and wakes up after a deduction a number of times throughout the series. He also worked openly with conan during the Lupin special. He also knew Conan was good at detective work During The phantom on Baker street movie, Kudo's dad even pointed out he solved the dying message. I know The Movies are not made by Gosho but he does approve them.
-
Okiya Subaru knows Conan is Shinichi for sure.
Akai already knows Ai Haibara is Miyano Shiho (Vermouth arc) and thus likely suspects Conan is probably a shrunken person like her; however, Akai doesn't have many starting points to determine who Conan's alter ego is. When Akai moves in to Shinichi's house as Okiya, he begins getting hints. The first hint is that Conan is taking care of the house for Shinichi who "has gone missing all of a sudden" and will loan him the place. (624 pg 15) A suddenly missing person is a great candidate for who Conan might have been before, especially since it is strange that a little boy can freely decide to allow a random stranger to stay at a house belonging to an unrelated teenage friend without consulting him beforehand. Conan also contradicts himself on the next page (624 pg 16): Conan says he will text message Shinichi about it later, but Conan just said that Shinichi was missing a few speech bubbles before.
Okiya definitely picked up on the inconsistencies in Conan's house lending talk because he became suspicious about the house's owner. We know from what he said to Ran that Okiya looked around Shinichi's house for traces of the landlord: clothes, journals, and albums, but found nothing personally identifying. (chap 639 pg. 5) This in itself is a hint for Okiya; why would someone bother trying to hide the traces of the previous owner?
Okiya obviously saw through Ran's lie about the "Kinichi" person that was making deductions about paper airplane case. (639 pg 4) Not only did Sonoko speak up that Ran contacted Shinichi before Ran cut her off, but also the laughable choice of alias, Sonoko's confused reaction to Ran's lie, and the house's large mystery novel collection give away the fabrication. Okiya also learned from this conversation that Shinichi was a high schooler who loves deduction. Okiya wouldn't fail to notice that Conan is quite similar. Since Okiya has been shown to be good a background research (702 pg 15), he simply has to look up a news article with a picture of Shinichi and note the obvious resemblance between Shinichi and Conan to finalize his hypothesis.
Takagi probably doesn't know although I'm sure he wonders what exactly is up with Conan. I think the main problem is that he has only seen Shinichi a few times and he hasn't put two and two together yet.
I secretly wonder if Kogoro knows and is only acting dumb to cover for Shinichi. He has figured out Shinichi must be in deep if he wound up a grade-schooler again and doesn't want to become involved in the problem until Shinichi is ready to tell him. He hits Conan when Conan starts becoming too noticeable.
-
-
It think even for a loyal BO agent, a non-senior agent getting ordered to kill Akai is a surprise given his reputation. Also Kir needed to play the naive role for the psychological trap she is inflicting on Gin. If she doesn't act surprised, Gin might think she expected the order which might cause the fake Akai's death plan to fail if Gin realizes they could have anticipated it and planned accordingly.But shouldn't she want to act cool, calm, and collected to make it look like it would be no big deal to kill off Akai? If she acted shocked and scared, then Gin might suspect that she isn't 100% loyal to the BO. If she acted cold hearted and took the "assassination" in stride, then wouldn't that make Gin less likely to suspect she has any lasting connection with the FBI? And if all what you say is true, I think she took a huge risk in having Gin pretty much suspect her the moment they got her back. That's just what I think.
As for the risk of suspicion, given the plan the FBI used it was unavoidable. Kir got back in one piece, Akai didn't make a strong move, and the FBI were totally predictable. It wasn't Akai or Conan's idea to move Rena in the vans, it was the rest of the FBI who came up with that one and Conan and Akai tacked their plan on top. Rena's trump card lies in alleviating said suspicion by pretending to assassinate Akai.
-
The manga goes faster than the anime. If you have any questions, feel free to ask me, or take a look at the wiki which has gotten a lot better lately at comprehensively covering character's back-stories.Normally i would agree, but it's sooooooooooo long. Ah hell with it, Che because you disagreed but a still offered me a helping hand, I will read it all! It's gonna be a long however long that takes me.
-
Here is the Black Organization plot chapters minimized to as few things to read as possible. If you follow this list, you will have missed some important character introductions, romance developments, and hints needed to solve the Vermouth arc, Kir arc, and Bourbon arc so prepare to be spoiled.
Honestly I think it is worth it to read through it the slow way.
------------------------------------------------------------
Short list of all the chapters important to the plot.
This list skips almost all the Hattori Heiji chapters, the Conan turns back to Shinichi chapters, Kaito Kid chapters, Ran suspects Conan's identity chapters, romance chapters etc.
Conan arc (12 chapters + bits)
1-2
16
33-35 (Only 33 is really necessary)
92-95
96: pages 1-10
114-116
121: 16-end
Ai Haibara/ Sherry arc (15 chapters)
176-181
234-242
Vermouth arc (37 chapters + bits, or 44 chapters with the optional org case)
255-258: You don't have to read this deeply, just flip through it as fast as you can.
270-272
287-289
325-327
337: pages 14 to end
338-343
350-354
377-383: (Optional black org. case: it really isn't necessary)
419: last page only
420-428
Warning the solution to the Vermouth arc is in the next block of chapters
429-434
470: pages 1-7
474: last two pages
475: pages 1-6
Mizunashi Rena and Hondou Eisuke arc (total chapters to read = 24+bits)
499-504
508-510:
552: pages 16 to end of chapter
553:
554: pages 1 - 4
555: pages: last two pages
585: pages 1 - 12
586: 12 to end
587: 11 to 14
590: pages 17-18 only
The next block of chapters is the solution arc so make any guesses now.
595-609 (Fifteen chapters of pure awesome. Just skim through the section about the company president's murder case.)
621 -11 to end
Bourbon Arc (total chapters to read = 17.1)
622-624
638-640
664-666
677-679
699- last page only
700-704
-
-
Bourbon was Rikumichi Kusudas best Friend, that's I believe!
Bourbon was emerged after Kusudas death (Episode 509) and
Rikumichi Kusudas suicide was a result by Akais car chase -
this is why Bourbon hate Akai: he want revenge for his Friend!
If we are on the topic of why Bourbon hates Akai, I'm in the romantic triangle camp unless evidence comes along to change that. Of course there is zero evidence for my current theory.
Akai and Bourbon both really dig Akemi, but Akemi likes Akai. Meanwhile, Akai was slowly distinguishing himself among the ranks of the organization, but Bourbon -who may also be distinguishing himself at the same time or had already done so- doesn't trust Akai. Eventually, Akai is given the codename Rye and is called to work under Gin, but has to pass a "final loyalty test." (Props if this was designed by Bourbon.) Akai is going to meet Gin in a warehouse where, unknown to the MiB, the FBI have set up an ambush for Gin. Meanwhile, a mysterious old man comes in and sits down. (We never did figure out who this man was. It could be Vermouth in disguise, but why send another high ranking agent into a potential ambush without scoping it out first with a low rank dude? What if it was Bourbon who wasn't so high ranked at the time? The black coat and hat is similar (it's a stretch)) Akai ignores him, but Camel reveals himself and the rest we know about. This incident was the figurative fatal blow intended for Akai, but Akai escapes and it ultimately seals Akemi's fate. Akemi was going to be killed one way or another as a liability. Despite Bourbon's love for Akemi, he would have had to cut himself off from her or risk the Org's rejection for being a liability because of his emotional attachments. Furthermore, Akemi is still loyal to Akai despite knowing he was "the enemy" and was using her which only salts Bourbon's wounds. This would explain why Bourbon hates Akai's guts.
The reason I like this theory is because it explains why scar Akai protected Conan in the Teito bank heist; he recognized Conan from the newspaper article that came out about Akemi's death.
-
I posted a picture of Mitsuhiko's dad in this thread on the previous page and in his wiki article too.He does I bet, but I haven't seen him...
We've seen Ayumi's dad at the end of the haunted mansion case. It's funny how the parents never seem to yell at them again for getting into even worse trouble...
-
I like how the BO members all interact with one another because they are different types of people.
To pull out the somewhat stale alignment system...
Gin is a lawfully evil character: he follows the rules by the principle, and likes a well ordered Organization where people follow the chain of command. He hates traitors and is suspicious of those who bend the rules or do their own thing.
Vodka is lawfully evil as well in that he also follows the chain of command and likes a well ordered Org.
Vermouth is probably a chaotic neutral with significant evil flavoring; she obeys explicit orders, but tends to do what pleases her, even if it is bad for the Organization like protecting Conan and Ran. Gin is often the one on her case for not reporting in when she should or messing around. Her willingness to blackmail unwilling people to murder and kill innocent people to gain a better position for her own ends ensures she is still on the dark side even after Shinichi and Ran's influence.
Chianti seems to be portrayed as chaotic evil. She would snipe people's heads off left and right if Gin didn't put his foot down. Korn seems more restrained than Chianti, but who knows what he is really thinking.
Akai is neutral good. He doesn't often report in on FBI missions and executes his own plans without telling anyone, but goes along with the FBI's plans often enough to avoid the chaotically good designation.
Kir is probably lawfully good, but her spy status means she is working against the structure she works in.
Sherry in the Org was a true neutral. She just wanted to work on her drug, but isn't particularly evil or good. She was obedient most of the time but she also follows her own principles shown when she was against the APTX 4869 being tested on humans and when she boycotted the drug development when the Org killed her sister. Since her escape she has moved towards lawful good.
I'll be curious to see how Bourbon ends up.
-
While I don't want Kid to get involved with the DC storyline a la Pandora and versus the Black org, I don't mind if he is involved other ways tangentially. I thought it was a nice development that Toichi taught Sharon aka. Vermouth and Yukiko disguise techniques.
I also wouldn't want Kaito Kid to be friends with Conan/Shinichi. We lost Heiji as a rival soon after the first case he was in. Hakuba has worked as a rival to Conan/Shinichi so far, but he rarely shows up. Kaito Kid is one of the few remaining true rivals for Conan. I just wish his cases were better...
-
It's not like I have been a staff member for long, but why don't you guys decide on some questions and the rules and stuff and run a test version? Unless a staff member volunteers (I'm not, sorry), it will most likely be one of you who designs the game and works as "Game Master". It could be played in the offtopic section like how DCTP does Mafia. You might want to also discuss it with Detective Kudo who posted pretty much the same thing as you guys did.
-
With a movie title like Green Hornet, are you sure "Apitoxin" doesn't refer to bees? The "api" prefix is associated with bees, being used in words like "Apiary" (a place where beehives are kept), "Apiology" (Study of honeybees), and "Apis" (a bee genus). Apis means bee in latin.
Apoptoxin refers to "apoptosis" which is is the process of programmed cell death and is entirely different from bees.
-
2
-
-
Sorry if I didn't express it clearly, but my point has always been that Sharon switched to Chris for two reasons:So just to make it clear, you've given up your rebutals to my argument below? It seems like you are changing your side of argument as the discussion continues. Your argument is not coherent and I'm confused for that.
1: Vermouth doesn't age, and she looks somewhere in her late 20s now, so it is easier for her to live as a younger person rather than the older Sharon which requires makeup.
2: Sharon is being investigated by the FBI for the crime 20 years ago and most likely recent crimes as well. By switching to Chris she has a clean record.
Vermouth planned on switching to Chris a long time ago because she has been working on creating a separate Chris identity for many years. (I believe her plans had been in the works for 10+ years.) At first, the reason could be entirely number 1 and maybe planning ahead in case two happened, but as she came under more investigation as Sharon, reason number 2 became important as well.
Vermouth didn't know that Jodie was the daughter of the FBI agent she killed twenty years ago during her Sharon disguise period and that Jodie had a sample of Vermouth's fingerprints. Vermouth also didn't count on Jodie figuring it out and proving that Sharon is Chris quickly. Jodie put two and two together and now the heat is back on Chris and she knows it because the FBI followed her to Japan and investigated her. Because she is being investigated as heavily as she is, Vermouth knows or at least strongly suspects the FBI figured out Sharon is Chris.
It might not have been convenient to the BO for Vermouth to lose her ability to move in high society. At the time, Vermouth thought she could get away with switching to Chris and killing off Sharon.It's the next thing to create another form she'll take in the public and if she worries that the FBI might realize this switching she could just take some years off as for her public life and just spend her time as a BO's agent.
On what grounds would Chris be arrested if the FBI doesn't know Sharon is Chris? Remember, Chris has a clean record.It's more important and urgent that she might be arrested than that her switching might be revealed.
Jodie did what you said and believed it. Akai also believed it too based on Jodie's investigation. Jodie and Akai's view was age contradiction be damned, they are same person anyway and we'll figure out how she tricked everyone when we haul her in for questioning.Even if the FBI find out the secret and ran a fingerprint experiment they still cannot prove that they are the same person because of the gap in their age(they actually had trouble of doing that).
You are correct that it isn't strictly necessary, but it makes it far more believable for her to create a history for the person she is switching into. Vermouth is a master of disguise and the FBI knows this. Sharon doesn't conceal her disguise abilities, she openly used them in front of a crowd of people in the NY case. If Sharon disappeared and Chris appeared, the first logical thought would be that Vermouth disguised as Chris Vineyard and is wearing a mask. The apparent age difference doesn't matter if the FBI thinks it is all a mask.So it's not necessary to have a time of Sharon and Chris both appearing.
Right, and my rebuttal was that Sharon doesn't need to be a second generation actress to break in when she has the BO's support. Kir became a TV personality easily despite having no background and Vermouth is both talented and beautiful, qualities needed for an actress.Seems like the way I picked up words was bad. I'll review the previous discussion.
In my first post I said it's weird that a star(Sharon) appears out of nowhere. Then you insisted that Chris had also appeared just after her mother died and why Sharon couldn't appeare the same way. So I said that's because Chris had a star as her mother but Sharon didn't and instead she debuted after a tough time and succeeded on her own.
Both are similar in that although both mom and child disguises existed simultaneously some time before, only after the death of the mother did the daughter come out and take center stage. Sharon's mom died after Sharon debuted on screen which coincides with Sharon receiving a lot of publicity. Vermouth hadn't studied under Toichi yet, so although she could likely disguise well back then, may not have had the confidence to pull off disguising as both mother and daughter after daughter has acquired some fame. In the most recent incarnation, Chris only appeared to act in screen plays and give interviews; her private life was a black box. Sharon meanwhile had a private life, although at her age (40s to 50s), her acting career was probably much slower giving time her to play Chris. Adding to the parallels, Sharon and Chris both lost their fathers as well: Sharon's father died in the fire at the time of her mother's death, Chris's father died after Sharon won an Oscar.Here I misunderstood that with the word "appear" you are refferring to the "debut" of the two characters. Instead you seem to have assumed the similarity in Sharon's debut and Chris's "debut" as her open privet life.
My point was that The "Sharon's mom/Sharon" story wasn't that different from the "Sharon/Chris" story, if Vermouth could pull off one, she could pull off the other.However, what I intended to do was to point out the weirdness of Sharon's mom-Vermouth theory which entails that "Sharon" hadn't existed.
The lack of info makes it impossible to prove that it happened, if Vermouth is Sharon's mom, it matches up nicely with the timeframe that Vermouth, as Sharon's mom, whatever her career was, took something in her twenties over fifty years ago that stopped her aging. It coincides with the start of the BO's project over 50 years ago, and her hatred for the Miyanos who may have been studying her and created APTX 4869 from their analysis.
I assume you mean "Sharon said to Yukiko". I feel the need to point out that what Sharon said about the timing and could be a lie and she could be backdating. (We have no idea when Sharon revealed Chris's existence to the world.) It doesn't matter though because even if Sharon created Chris over ten years ago, I already explained why she planned that far in advance at the top of this post in reason 1.That's not what I meant. I didn't say Yukiko saw Chris talking to Sharon. I'll make my argument again.
There was a conversation like this.
Sharon: "Can you believe it? My daughter was standing in fromt of my husband's grave disguised as him. I haven't met her since then...it's been about 10 years."
Yukiko: "Ah if I recall you were saying that your daughter beged you to give her a disguising lesson."
Altough we cannot trust Sharon's words since she could be ling, we can still count on Yukiko's. So as of the first sentence by Yukiko there is a fact that Sharon said Yukiko that her daughter beged her to give a disguising lesson. The unbolded part could be a lie but the bolded part is a fact. Remember this point. What we know with this is just the fact that Sharon said Yukiko the above thing. And then if we consider Sharon's words and think logically we can take another fact from them, that Sharon said Yukiko that her daughter beged her to give her a disguising lesson at least about 10 years ago.
To sum up there is a fact that Vermouth was creating or had already created "Chris Vinyard" about 10 years ago. You say it's to build Chris's backgraund up to creat the impression she is a real person(so according to this, it's not that she had created Chris but that she was creating her) And you say it's to escape from the FBI that she swiched to Chris and that the reason she didn't extinguish Sharon before she created Chris was to make it harder for the FBI to reveal this swicthing. Then it follows that it's at least about 10 years ago that she noticed the FBI were investigating Sharon. But it's unlikely that Vermouth didn't fear the possibility that the FBI might catch and arrest her for at least about 10 years...that's too long.
It's not a direct acknowledgment, but you can tell by the feeling of the scene and her lack of objection to Shinichi that she seems to accept it as a possibility. (It's V42-10 pages 4 and 5) Shinichi is the kind of person who, if he doesn't want to believe that someone he valued or trusted is a culprit, will do everything to prove that person isn't the guilty one (see Ray Curtis case). I would imagine that Yukiko wouldn't take Conan's deductions lying down when it came to her friend. She had the time to talk it out with him as she prepared Conan's disguise and even after that she still can't reject Conan's words despite the time she was with Sharon.Were there a scene where Yukiko showed her ackowledgement of the fact that Sharon and Chris are the same person? As far as I recall, she just mumbled "Is that true, Sharon?"
-
Rena is a trained CIA agent on an infiltration mission. If she wasn't trained to act and react naturally under questioning I would eat my sock.But when Kir is really ordered by Gin to kill Akai, she is shocked and her eyes widen and turn grey for a few seconds, a sign that she wasn't anticipating it. That made me a bit hesitant to believe that they planned it that far in advance.
If scar Akai is Bourbon then it stands to reason Conan is shocked because Akai was supposed to be in disguise, not wandering around in the open with a "shoot me" sign on his back. It makes sense because the method Akai used to escape as described in above wiki article would not leave him with memory loss. Also, you now have been hit with a halibut.And yet another hint is when Conan encounters the BO yet again. The next story arc, the one with the red sweaters and the BO trying to kill scar Akai, Conan is shocked when the Detective Boys said that the person caught on television (scar Akai) looked a lot like the man with the cold during the bus jacking incident (Akai). If Conan knew that Akai was still alive, he wouldn't be too surprised that scar Akai looked like Akai (given that scar Akai and Akai are the same people).
Also before you ask what the real Akai is doing if Scar Akai is Bourbon, this article: Okiya is Akai Theory
-
A Bourbon article has been mainspaced. ( http://www.detectiveconanworld.com/wiki/Bourbon ) There isn't much new info though.
-
I'll be cynical with you; she probably won't find out until the "final problem" although I'm sure she will have couple rounds of suspicions between then. I think the Bourbon arc will have a round of suspicion near Bourbon's reveal.ill be cynical and say she wont find out till she inadvertently gets involved in the endgame whatever it is.
-
We already have discussion threads for the most recent manga cases where people vote for who they think the culprit is and post theories about how the crime was committed/how the protagonists will escape/. The same goes for the long plot arcs: Okiya Subaru, scar Akai, Bourbon, the boss, Vermouth, etc... It's not exactly a contest format, but I don't know how many people would be confident enough to post deductions if the threads were a battle between users. You could try to set one up when the next manga case is released or for the most recent anime case and see how it goes.Why not have a deduction contest about current DC cases in the Manga and Anime. It's a spoiler section about ideas on the plot,the latest case, etc. For example: the current case is The Spiritism Session W Locked Room(The First Locked Room). Watch the episode and when you are ready you can tell us who you think did the crime,how,why. There could be a plot section for those ideas as well as a Manga section. When the final part of the Anime and/or Manga comes out will support or deny your deduction.
reply and tell me what you think about this idea guys
-from yours truly Detective Kudo
-
It wasn't at a funeral, it was some other time before. There was no one else around to corroborate that story. It could be something Sharon made it up. Or maybe Sharon was lying about the husband being dead and the husband actually went with Sharon to visit his own grave because he's part of the BO and faked his death, and Sharon later changed the story to say Chris did it.But how about the time when the two met at the funeral? Sharon and Chris?
-
The coffin was closed in the manga panel it appeared in (Volume 34 file 5 / 344 Chapter pg 10, anime ep 279, Hooligan's labyrinth), so it could be no one was in it. If there was something in it, my guesses would be someone else's body disguised as Sharon (The BO could most likely procure one easily) or a wax sculpture (which are creepily lifelike).When Chris and Sharon Vineyard was discovered to be one and the same person in episode 345... back in episode when they showed a flashback of Chris's mother, Sharon's funeral; If Chris and Sharon were actually the same person, then who on earth was lying in the coffin at the funeral?! Who's inside!? Can you answer to this, Professor Chekhov?
-
The wiki has the page you are looking for!To tell you the truth, I really doubt Akai is still alive. I mean, it would be impossible for him and Kir to be able to have the same plan that fooled Gin and Vodka. Not only did they have no means of communication, but Gin was ordering Kir to do so many extra things like shoot him in the head, which wasn't planned. Then when the car was blown up and they found a dead man's body that matched with Akai's fingerprints, it became even less likely that Akai managed to get out alive. What are the chances that he cut off his right hand and placed it on another dead man's wrist, safely escaped the explosion, and lived life without a right hand? Seriously? It's not like we met a one handed character yet. And if he had surgery to get a workable right hand, how did he do that without revealing his identity to the hospital as arousing suspicion? Sorry for Akai fans, but it seriously looks like his survival rate is low.
Okiya is already in action (tailing Jodie and investigating the bank), but I hope that there will be some event that occurs this winter before file 800 hits involving scar Akai. Scar Akai hasn't stalked James Black yet. He also hasn't made use of Kogoro's cellphone number as far as we know.But it is also not impossible for Akai to be scar akai.. although it would be too straight forward compared to the other things in detective conan(except for the london case). Anyway, do you guys think that Aoyama will bring him back into action at somewhere around file 800?
-
I believe you are mistaking scar Akai for the real thing. That Akai with the burn who appeared in the bank is Bourbon. (Well, it hasn't been officially revealed yet but there are more than enough hints. Anvil sized ones at that.)Shuuichi is a alive because episode 564.
Don't worry, the real Akai is alive. He is disguised as someone else...
Akai Shuuichi's Death Theory!
in General
Posted · Report reply