User talk:Chekhov MacGuffin/Handedness - Revision history

72.93.174.103: /* Re: BlackWings and handedness assumptions */ In accordance with Chekhov's wishes, the personal attacks that contribute nothing to a page-based discussion are gone.

2012-07-25T15:33:58Z

‎Re: BlackWings and handedness assumptions: In accordance with Chekhov's wishes, the personal attacks that contribute nothing to a page-based discussion are gone.

BlackWings: Hit the wrong edit link.

2012-07-23T21:52:29Z

Hit the wrong edit link.

BlackWings: /* Handedness Article */

2012-07-23T21:50:23Z

‎Handedness Article

Chekhov MacGuffin: /* Re: BlackWings and handedness assumptions */ If this continues to be an offtopic discussion of users, this page is getting locked.

2012-07-23T05:15:09Z

‎Re: BlackWings and handedness assumptions: If this continues to be an offtopic discussion of users, this page is getting locked.

203.66.73.55: /* Re: BlackWings and handedness assumptions */

2012-07-23T00:11:42Z

‎Re: BlackWings and handedness assumptions

BlackWings: /* Re: BlackWings and handedness assumptions */

2012-05-27T21:24:56Z

‎Re: BlackWings and handedness assumptions

Chekhov MacGuffin: And the gauntlet...

2012-05-23T01:02:55Z

And the gauntlet...

BlackWings: /* Re: BlackWings and handedness assumptions */

2012-05-23T00:12:31Z

‎Re: BlackWings and handedness assumptions

BlackWings: /* Re: BlackWings and handedness assumptions */

2012-05-23T00:11:47Z

‎Re: BlackWings and handedness assumptions

Chekhov MacGuffin: /* Re: BlackWings and handedness assumptions */ and reply with methodology

2012-05-17T17:55:02Z

‎Re: BlackWings and handedness assumptions: and reply with methodology

← Older revision		Revision as of 15:33, 25 July 2012
Line 87:		Line 87:
	::::Also, for Akai's rifle shot from 504. The point wasn't about his handedness, it's about the note. That probably is an art error, but the note is an argument that only applies in a world without cross dominance (no matter the person) and is instantly called into question when we see Akai does everything in his power to not use his right hand unless he absolutely has no choice in the matter.		::::Also, for Akai's rifle shot from 504. The point wasn't about his handedness, it's about the note. That probably is an art error, but the note is an argument that only applies in a world without cross dominance (no matter the person) and is instantly called into question when we see Akai does everything in his power to not use his right hand unless he absolutely has no choice in the matter.
	::::Finally, a bit off this topic of Akai, but I put "southpaw stance" back in the Sera bullet and changed "high right leg sweep" to "right roundhouse kick aimed at the head." Stances are often used as a means of identifying handedness, that's the whole reason I put the stance there in the first place and used the rest to argue against this logic and point out an example in JKD classes. Otherwise, you may as well not even mention the specific moves and just say "fought with Ran." The leg in "leg sweep" refers to the target, not the attack. Sera's movement and the fact that her leg is turned to strike with the instep as well as the power of it makes me almost certain it's a roundhouse and not a crescent. (Sorry, forgot to sign) [[User:BlackWings\|BlackWings]] 00:12, 23 May 2012 (UTC)		::::Finally, a bit off this topic of Akai, but I put "southpaw stance" back in the Sera bullet and changed "high right leg sweep" to "right roundhouse kick aimed at the head." Stances are often used as a means of identifying handedness, that's the whole reason I put the stance there in the first place and used the rest to argue against this logic and point out an example in JKD classes. Otherwise, you may as well not even mention the specific moves and just say "fought with Ran." The leg in "leg sweep" refers to the target, not the attack. Sera's movement and the fact that her leg is turned to strike with the instep as well as the power of it makes me almost certain it's a roundhouse and not a crescent. (Sorry, forgot to sign) [[User:BlackWings\|BlackWings]] 00:12, 23 May 2012 (UTC)
−
−	:::::This is not a wiki page. It's a personal page, so please don't edit it without consulting me first. I've pretty much said all I've needed to say to you regarding handedness, Fanged Loathe, both to your current username, and to your other IPs, and elsewhere, even after you decided to act like a total dick on my userpage and pretend like you could come back unnoticed. Don't like my evaluation? Please make your own and then maybe you can convince other people to accept it. I don't care to go around in circles with you anymore because it is uninformative. I've earned my reputation for accurate assessment here at DCW and at DCTP which are the two core groups of dedicated English language Conan fans on the internet. If you were really serious, you would not need to sockpuppet like you are trying to hide to try to make your point. You would sign up in the forum, and attack directly, under the scrutiny of the best group of Conan mystery solvers on the internet. I recommend DCTP where I am not a mod. [[User:Chekhov MacGuffin\|'''<font color="#B22222">Chekhov</font> <font color="#2F4F4F">MacGuffin</font>''']] <sup>[[User talk:Chekhov MacGuffin\|'''<font color="#696969">talk</font>''']]</sup> 01:02, 23 May 2012 (UTC)
−	::::::Fine, I'm sorry I edit without permission, but the stance is important given that a large number of people associate stance with handedness (it's a false idea, but worth mentioning solely for the fact you mentioned more things that don't indicate handedness). After that, I don't know what you're smoking, but here's some things for you to chew on: if you have a reputation, you wouldn't need to boast about it, it would boast itself. If you don't like going "around in circles" then get out of the debating game, since that's precisely what it does prior to its resolution. And if your response to someone debating you is not a response but just attacks on the person, then the person in question is likely to "sockpuppet" just to get your attention and reopen this debate and deliver it to its resolution. I'm open to throwing in this towel, but you need to be willing to accept the irregularities of Akai's choices and the fact that he does not stack up as left handed in a comparison against Gin, accept that Akai's right hand is unusually underused. Otherwise, these moments of attacks are going to be frequent followed closely by "sockpuppeting" and a few people are likely to insist you take some magic mushrooms.
−	::::::Also, the start to that fight is called a Stop Kick or Jeet Tek (there's bound to be more names, but those are the two I was taught). Just as your note points out, the name suggests, and Sera demonstrated, the objective is to stop the attacker and the attack. [[User:BlackWings\|BlackWings]] 21:24, 27 May 2012 (UTC)
−
−
−	::::::: Sorry, I just had to butt in here. Let me make sure I've got this straight: BlackWings says he's not a sockpuppet, even though he said he might be doing that because Chekhov doesn't like him. Chekhov MacGuffin says serious debaters don't need to sockpuppet to convince people of their theories, even though anyone who visits mangafox.me can see she was a sockpuppet. BlackWings claims to have come here to make a point on handedness assumptions, but then makes those same assumptions when he tries to explain Sera. Chekhov MacGuffin says BlackWings should debate the best Conan minds on the internet which she says she is one of, but when BlackWings does just that on this talk page she runs away saying she's not going to debate him and flames BlackWings. Is that right? You two need to start using the big kid potty, this page houses the most pathetic argument I've ever seen and a lot of it has to do with the fact that you're both making assumptions on handedness because you both know nothing about handedness and don't want to see how stupid your wrong ideas make you both look. Handedness is about dexterity, not number of uses or instinct. [[Special:Contributions/203.66.73.55\|203.66.73.55]] 00:11, 23 July 2012 (UTC)
−	::::::::I have no clue why people say I have sockpuppeted on Mangafox. I had a single account with less than ten posts that I gave up ages ago because there wasn't much interesting going on over there. I also made a Chekhov account which I have never posted with after I heard some people over there didn't like me for reasons I have no idea about -- in order to prevent someone from signing up and using that name maliciously. That's it. People who think I am socking are probably running into users who are reposting my theories, which is rather common. One of the administrators at DCTP stickied the thread where I keep my theories, and many users reference them there and on DCW, so they wind up getting a lot of exposure because of that. Between that page, and theory pages I posted here, they probably accumulated north of 75000 hits. Searching a sentence out of one of my theories reveals they are all over the place, not counting people who have paraphrased them or translated them into other languages.
−	::::::::I know BlackWings has been socking because I can easily search for IPs originating from the same area. Not unexpectedly, an IP from the same place [http://www.detectiveconanworld.com/wiki/User_talk:Chekhov_MacGuffin#Handedness_Article posted before BlackWings made an account about this very issue, and promised to come back]. Even the other moderators took notice of his bad behavior. When he came back as BlackWings, I decided to give him another chance, but cut him off after watching him devolve into incivility again. If this is "running away" in your eyes, that's fine with me. I have no desire to deal with someone who has a history of bad behavior and shows no signs of acting in better faith this time around, and neither apparently do the other moderators. That said, I would appreciate it if you would be less condescending as well. ''As a general notice to anyone reading this, I would prefer the discussion focuses on handedness, and not users and their behavior because it has only resulted in unpleasant conversation.''
−	::::::::Back to handedness, I never stated that a simple majority determines handedness (although so far it seems that the majority does indeed match likely handedness in the cases listed). The assumptions I have made are listed on the page, and these assumptions are based off of prior statements from Conan's deductions or from observations of people with known handedness, and as far as I can tell are pretty non-controversial. All the list shows is that no character exclusively uses their dominant hand, there are situations which can force hand use one way or the other which need to be considered when making handedness judgements, and certain activities are more exclusively dominant handed (eg gun handling) than others (eg cellphone holding). The reason this list is comprehensive (minus recent chapters because I haven't done them yet) is to provide a convenient layout and easy references so someone trying to make a determination can weigh what activities are the most important to consider. I hope this clears this up. [[User:Chekhov MacGuffin\|'''<font color="#B22222">Chekhov</font> <font color="#2F4F4F">MacGuffin</font>''']] <sup>[[User talk:Chekhov MacGuffin\|'''<font color="#696969">talk</font>''']]</sup> 05:15, 23 July 2012 (UTC)
−	:::::::::You're accused of socking because [http://tinyurl.com/dxzokac you referred to Chekhov MacGuffin as a different person] on Manga Fox, giving the impression that you were someone different. Additionally, you didn't leave Manga Fox, [http://tinyurl.com/cl4jjg6 you were banned] because you got caught using two accounts. Your original account is back now, but the Chekhov MacGuffin account is gone for good. You claimed to find Manga Fox boring weeks before you "left," so why you decided to hang around for those weeks and only took off after you had your theories challenged is quite baffling if you're really the great detective you claim to be.
−	:::::::::And really, who on Manga Fox hates you? Fanged Loathe made it clear you two butt heads and you certainly treated him with the same superior attitude you've displayed all over the internet, but nothing was there to say you were hated to the point someone would risk their own account just to do something so venomous. In fact, given the sheer number of people who post your theories and bent over backwards at your posts, I'm willing to say you're well respected on Manga Fox, negating your logic. However, if you really feel you were hated, then perhaps you should focus on becoming a better person and not blame all your problems on other people.
−	:::::::::If you wanted this page to be restricted to handedness, then you shouldn't have brought in Ad Hominem attacks and bolstered yourself up so much. You only have yourself to blame for this tangent.
−	:::::::::I didn't know that disagreeing with someone means a conversation "devolves into incivility." I would have thought it reached that point with your flaming, but now I know better: Don't disagree with Chekhov MacGuffin or you're a troll.
−	:::::::::I'm sorry, but did the woman who talks down to everyone just ask for someone to not be so condescending to her? Work on how you treat people, then you get the right make requests about receiving better treatment from people.
−	:::::::::And now I know you did not look up my IP, either that or your tools are extremely outdated. I've never so much as posted from the same city twice in a row, let alone the same area. The only commonality between my contributions to the internet is the proxy servers I use, even the device I use to access the internet is rarely the same. The only time my IP is not something that rolls over to the device is when a server goes down or won't accept the server.
−	:::::::::For the actual topic, you did say a majority determines handedness, that was a point you made repeatedly on Manga Fox. It's also a point you stuck by until the top IP had to request you talk about the details of these choices, which acts as evidence that you ran this list initially under the assumption that handedness is determined by abundance of uses and disregard cross dominance. Anyone who does the most modest amount of research can learn that all left-handed people are fairly more cross dominant than a right-handed person due to the fact that we live in a world designed for the right handed, a point Aoyama made previously in the case that named Takagi, and that you should be acknowledging that Gin, a known left-handed, is also cross dominant to a certain degree so that he can cope in our society. I don't know why you refuse to accept this - it doesn't change the fact that he's left-handed, it just means that he's more well equipped to use his off-dominant hand and has more dexterity. Likewise, I don't get why you refuse to accept that Akai does not measure up to Gin, since he does not use his right hand half as often as Gin does, your list proves it. [[User:BlackWings\|BlackWings]] 21:50, 23 July 2012 (UTC)

@@ Line 60: / Line 60: @@
 :::::There is no evidence I have seen for a spy in the FBI, and any vague suggestions, like Gin's informant line, can be adequately explained without resorting to postulating spies. Also there exists counterclaims (discussed earlier) that suggest there isn't one. Until there is some action or knowledge shown by Org that cannot be adequately explained without resorting to a spy, I personally will not postulate or base any theories on their existence because I think that is invalid and risky deductive logic.
 :::::[[User:Chekhov MacGuffin|'''<font color="#B22222">Chekhov</font> <font color="#2F4F4F">MacGuffin</font>''']] <sup>[[User talk:Chekhov MacGuffin|'''<font color="#696969">talk</font>''']]</sup> 04:56, 9 January 2012 (UTC)
 == Re: BlackWings and handedness assumptions ==
@@ Line 104: / Line 97: @@
 ::::::::I know BlackWings has been socking because I can easily search for IPs originating from the same area. Not unexpectedly, an IP from the same place [http://www.detectiveconanworld.com/wiki/User_talk:Chekhov_MacGuffin#Handedness_Article posted before BlackWings made an account about this very issue, and promised to come back]. Even the other moderators took notice of his bad behavior. When he came back as BlackWings, I decided to give him another chance, but cut him off after watching him devolve into incivility again. If this is "running away" in your eyes, that's fine with me. I have no desire to deal with someone who has a history of bad behavior and shows no signs of acting in better faith this time around, and neither apparently do the other moderators. That said, I would appreciate it if you would be less condescending as well. ''As a general notice to anyone reading this, I would prefer the discussion focuses on handedness, and not users and their behavior because it has only resulted in unpleasant conversation.''
 ::::::::Back to handedness, I never stated that a simple majority determines handedness (although so far it seems that the majority does indeed match likely handedness in the cases listed). The assumptions I have made are listed on the page, and these assumptions are based off of prior statements from Conan's deductions or from observations of people with known handedness, and as far as I can tell are pretty non-controversial. All the list shows is that no character exclusively uses their dominant hand, there are situations which can force hand use one way or the other which need to be considered when making handedness judgements, and certain activities are more exclusively dominant handed (eg gun handling) than others (eg cellphone holding). The reason this list is comprehensive (minus recent chapters because I haven't done them yet) is to provide a convenient layout and easy references so someone trying to make a determination can weigh what activities are the most important to consider. I hope this clears this up. [[User:Chekhov MacGuffin|'''<font color="#B22222">Chekhov</font> <font color="#2F4F4F">MacGuffin</font>''']] <sup>[[User talk:Chekhov MacGuffin|'''<font color="#696969">talk</font>''']]</sup> 05:15, 23 July 2012 (UTC)

@@ Line 60: / Line 60: @@
 :::::There is no evidence I have seen for a spy in the FBI, and any vague suggestions, like Gin's informant line, can be adequately explained without resorting to postulating spies. Also there exists counterclaims (discussed earlier) that suggest there isn't one. Until there is some action or knowledge shown by Org that cannot be adequately explained without resorting to a spy, I personally will not postulate or base any theories on their existence because I think that is invalid and risky deductive logic.
 :::::[[User:Chekhov MacGuffin|'''<font color="#B22222">Chekhov</font> <font color="#2F4F4F">MacGuffin</font>''']] <sup>[[User talk:Chekhov MacGuffin|'''<font color="#696969">talk</font>''']]</sup> 04:56, 9 January 2012 (UTC)
 == Re: BlackWings and handedness assumptions ==

← Older revision		Revision as of 05:15, 23 July 2012
Line 94:		Line 94:

	::::::: Sorry, I just had to butt in here. Let me make sure I've got this straight: BlackWings says he's not a sockpuppet, even though he said he might be doing that because Chekhov doesn't like him. Chekhov MacGuffin says serious debaters don't need to sockpuppet to convince people of their theories, even though anyone who visits mangafox.me can see she was a sockpuppet. BlackWings claims to have come here to make a point on handedness assumptions, but then makes those same assumptions when he tries to explain Sera. Chekhov MacGuffin says BlackWings should debate the best Conan minds on the internet which she says she is one of, but when BlackWings does just that on this talk page she runs away saying she's not going to debate him and flames BlackWings. Is that right? You two need to start using the big kid potty, this page houses the most pathetic argument I've ever seen and a lot of it has to do with the fact that you're both making assumptions on handedness because you both know nothing about handedness and don't want to see how stupid your wrong ideas make you both look. Handedness is about dexterity, not number of uses or instinct. [[Special:Contributions/203.66.73.55\|203.66.73.55]] 00:11, 23 July 2012 (UTC)		::::::: Sorry, I just had to butt in here. Let me make sure I've got this straight: BlackWings says he's not a sockpuppet, even though he said he might be doing that because Chekhov doesn't like him. Chekhov MacGuffin says serious debaters don't need to sockpuppet to convince people of their theories, even though anyone who visits mangafox.me can see she was a sockpuppet. BlackWings claims to have come here to make a point on handedness assumptions, but then makes those same assumptions when he tries to explain Sera. Chekhov MacGuffin says BlackWings should debate the best Conan minds on the internet which she says she is one of, but when BlackWings does just that on this talk page she runs away saying she's not going to debate him and flames BlackWings. Is that right? You two need to start using the big kid potty, this page houses the most pathetic argument I've ever seen and a lot of it has to do with the fact that you're both making assumptions on handedness because you both know nothing about handedness and don't want to see how stupid your wrong ideas make you both look. Handedness is about dexterity, not number of uses or instinct. [[Special:Contributions/203.66.73.55\|203.66.73.55]] 00:11, 23 July 2012 (UTC)
		+	::::::::I have no clue why people say I have sockpuppeted on Mangafox. I had a single account with less than ten posts that I gave up ages ago because there wasn't much interesting going on over there. I also made a Chekhov account which I have never posted with after I heard some people over there didn't like me for reasons I have no idea about -- in order to prevent someone from signing up and using that name maliciously. That's it. People who think I am socking are probably running into users who are reposting my theories, which is rather common. One of the administrators at DCTP stickied the thread where I keep my theories, and many users reference them there and on DCW, so they wind up getting a lot of exposure because of that. Between that page, and theory pages I posted here, they probably accumulated north of 75000 hits. Searching a sentence out of one of my theories reveals they are all over the place, not counting people who have paraphrased them or translated them into other languages.
		+	::::::::I know BlackWings has been socking because I can easily search for IPs originating from the same area. Not unexpectedly, an IP from the same place [http://www.detectiveconanworld.com/wiki/User_talk:Chekhov_MacGuffin#Handedness_Article posted before BlackWings made an account about this very issue, and promised to come back]. Even the other moderators took notice of his bad behavior. When he came back as BlackWings, I decided to give him another chance, but cut him off after watching him devolve into incivility again. If this is "running away" in your eyes, that's fine with me. I have no desire to deal with someone who has a history of bad behavior and shows no signs of acting in better faith this time around, and neither apparently do the other moderators. That said, I would appreciate it if you would be less condescending as well. ''As a general notice to anyone reading this, I would prefer the discussion focuses on handedness, and not users and their behavior because it has only resulted in unpleasant conversation.''
		+	::::::::Back to handedness, I never stated that a simple majority determines handedness (although so far it seems that the majority does indeed match likely handedness in the cases listed). The assumptions I have made are listed on the page, and these assumptions are based off of prior statements from Conan's deductions or from observations of people with known handedness, and as far as I can tell are pretty non-controversial. All the list shows is that no character exclusively uses their dominant hand, there are situations which can force hand use one way or the other which need to be considered when making handedness judgements, and certain activities are more exclusively dominant handed (eg gun handling) than others (eg cellphone holding). The reason this list is comprehensive (minus recent chapters because I haven't done them yet) is to provide a convenient layout and easy references so someone trying to make a determination can weigh what activities are the most important to consider. I hope this clears this up. [[User:Chekhov MacGuffin\|'''<font color="#B22222">Chekhov</font> <font color="#2F4F4F">MacGuffin</font>''']] <sup>[[User talk:Chekhov MacGuffin\|'''<font color="#696969">talk</font>''']]</sup> 05:15, 23 July 2012 (UTC)

← Older revision		Revision as of 00:11, 23 July 2012
Line 91:		Line 91:
	::::::Fine, I'm sorry I edit without permission, but the stance is important given that a large number of people associate stance with handedness (it's a false idea, but worth mentioning solely for the fact you mentioned more things that don't indicate handedness). After that, I don't know what you're smoking, but here's some things for you to chew on: if you have a reputation, you wouldn't need to boast about it, it would boast itself. If you don't like going "around in circles" then get out of the debating game, since that's precisely what it does prior to its resolution. And if your response to someone debating you is not a response but just attacks on the person, then the person in question is likely to "sockpuppet" just to get your attention and reopen this debate and deliver it to its resolution. I'm open to throwing in this towel, but you need to be willing to accept the irregularities of Akai's choices and the fact that he does not stack up as left handed in a comparison against Gin, accept that Akai's right hand is unusually underused. Otherwise, these moments of attacks are going to be frequent followed closely by "sockpuppeting" and a few people are likely to insist you take some magic mushrooms.		::::::Fine, I'm sorry I edit without permission, but the stance is important given that a large number of people associate stance with handedness (it's a false idea, but worth mentioning solely for the fact you mentioned more things that don't indicate handedness). After that, I don't know what you're smoking, but here's some things for you to chew on: if you have a reputation, you wouldn't need to boast about it, it would boast itself. If you don't like going "around in circles" then get out of the debating game, since that's precisely what it does prior to its resolution. And if your response to someone debating you is not a response but just attacks on the person, then the person in question is likely to "sockpuppet" just to get your attention and reopen this debate and deliver it to its resolution. I'm open to throwing in this towel, but you need to be willing to accept the irregularities of Akai's choices and the fact that he does not stack up as left handed in a comparison against Gin, accept that Akai's right hand is unusually underused. Otherwise, these moments of attacks are going to be frequent followed closely by "sockpuppeting" and a few people are likely to insist you take some magic mushrooms.
	::::::Also, the start to that fight is called a Stop Kick or Jeet Tek (there's bound to be more names, but those are the two I was taught). Just as your note points out, the name suggests, and Sera demonstrated, the objective is to stop the attacker and the attack. [[User:BlackWings\|BlackWings]] 21:24, 27 May 2012 (UTC)		::::::Also, the start to that fight is called a Stop Kick or Jeet Tek (there's bound to be more names, but those are the two I was taught). Just as your note points out, the name suggests, and Sera demonstrated, the objective is to stop the attacker and the attack. [[User:BlackWings\|BlackWings]] 21:24, 27 May 2012 (UTC)
		+
		+
		+	::::::: Sorry, I just had to butt in here. Let me make sure I've got this straight: BlackWings says he's not a sockpuppet, even though he said he might be doing that because Chekhov doesn't like him. Chekhov MacGuffin says serious debaters don't need to sockpuppet to convince people of their theories, even though anyone who visits mangafox.me can see she was a sockpuppet. BlackWings claims to have come here to make a point on handedness assumptions, but then makes those same assumptions when he tries to explain Sera. Chekhov MacGuffin says BlackWings should debate the best Conan minds on the internet which she says she is one of, but when BlackWings does just that on this talk page she runs away saying she's not going to debate him and flames BlackWings. Is that right? You two need to start using the big kid potty, this page houses the most pathetic argument I've ever seen and a lot of it has to do with the fact that you're both making assumptions on handedness because you both know nothing about handedness and don't want to see how stupid your wrong ideas make you both look. Handedness is about dexterity, not number of uses or instinct. [[Special:Contributions/203.66.73.55\|203.66.73.55]] 00:11, 23 July 2012 (UTC)

← Older revision		Revision as of 21:24, 27 May 2012
Line 89:		Line 89:

	:::::This is not a wiki page. It's a personal page, so please don't edit it without consulting me first. I've pretty much said all I've needed to say to you regarding handedness, Fanged Loathe, both to your current username, and to your other IPs, and elsewhere, even after you decided to act like a total dick on my userpage and pretend like you could come back unnoticed. Don't like my evaluation? Please make your own and then maybe you can convince other people to accept it. I don't care to go around in circles with you anymore because it is uninformative. I've earned my reputation for accurate assessment here at DCW and at DCTP which are the two core groups of dedicated English language Conan fans on the internet. If you were really serious, you would not need to sockpuppet like you are trying to hide to try to make your point. You would sign up in the forum, and attack directly, under the scrutiny of the best group of Conan mystery solvers on the internet. I recommend DCTP where I am not a mod. [[User:Chekhov MacGuffin\|'''<font color="#B22222">Chekhov</font> <font color="#2F4F4F">MacGuffin</font>''']] <sup>[[User talk:Chekhov MacGuffin\|'''<font color="#696969">talk</font>''']]</sup> 01:02, 23 May 2012 (UTC)		:::::This is not a wiki page. It's a personal page, so please don't edit it without consulting me first. I've pretty much said all I've needed to say to you regarding handedness, Fanged Loathe, both to your current username, and to your other IPs, and elsewhere, even after you decided to act like a total dick on my userpage and pretend like you could come back unnoticed. Don't like my evaluation? Please make your own and then maybe you can convince other people to accept it. I don't care to go around in circles with you anymore because it is uninformative. I've earned my reputation for accurate assessment here at DCW and at DCTP which are the two core groups of dedicated English language Conan fans on the internet. If you were really serious, you would not need to sockpuppet like you are trying to hide to try to make your point. You would sign up in the forum, and attack directly, under the scrutiny of the best group of Conan mystery solvers on the internet. I recommend DCTP where I am not a mod. [[User:Chekhov MacGuffin\|'''<font color="#B22222">Chekhov</font> <font color="#2F4F4F">MacGuffin</font>''']] <sup>[[User talk:Chekhov MacGuffin\|'''<font color="#696969">talk</font>''']]</sup> 01:02, 23 May 2012 (UTC)
		+	::::::Fine, I'm sorry I edit without permission, but the stance is important given that a large number of people associate stance with handedness (it's a false idea, but worth mentioning solely for the fact you mentioned more things that don't indicate handedness). After that, I don't know what you're smoking, but here's some things for you to chew on: if you have a reputation, you wouldn't need to boast about it, it would boast itself. If you don't like going "around in circles" then get out of the debating game, since that's precisely what it does prior to its resolution. And if your response to someone debating you is not a response but just attacks on the person, then the person in question is likely to "sockpuppet" just to get your attention and reopen this debate and deliver it to its resolution. I'm open to throwing in this towel, but you need to be willing to accept the irregularities of Akai's choices and the fact that he does not stack up as left handed in a comparison against Gin, accept that Akai's right hand is unusually underused. Otherwise, these moments of attacks are going to be frequent followed closely by "sockpuppeting" and a few people are likely to insist you take some magic mushrooms.
		+	::::::Also, the start to that fight is called a Stop Kick or Jeet Tek (there's bound to be more names, but those are the two I was taught). Just as your note points out, the name suggests, and Sera demonstrated, the objective is to stop the attacker and the attack. [[User:BlackWings\|BlackWings]] 21:24, 27 May 2012 (UTC)

← Older revision		Revision as of 01:02, 23 May 2012
Line 87:		Line 87:
	::::Also, for Akai's rifle shot from 504. The point wasn't about his handedness, it's about the note. That probably is an art error, but the note is an argument that only applies in a world without cross dominance (no matter the person) and is instantly called into question when we see Akai does everything in his power to not use his right hand unless he absolutely has no choice in the matter.		::::Also, for Akai's rifle shot from 504. The point wasn't about his handedness, it's about the note. That probably is an art error, but the note is an argument that only applies in a world without cross dominance (no matter the person) and is instantly called into question when we see Akai does everything in his power to not use his right hand unless he absolutely has no choice in the matter.
	::::Finally, a bit off this topic of Akai, but I put "southpaw stance" back in the Sera bullet and changed "high right leg sweep" to "right roundhouse kick aimed at the head." Stances are often used as a means of identifying handedness, that's the whole reason I put the stance there in the first place and used the rest to argue against this logic and point out an example in JKD classes. Otherwise, you may as well not even mention the specific moves and just say "fought with Ran." The leg in "leg sweep" refers to the target, not the attack. Sera's movement and the fact that her leg is turned to strike with the instep as well as the power of it makes me almost certain it's a roundhouse and not a crescent. (Sorry, forgot to sign) [[User:BlackWings\|BlackWings]] 00:12, 23 May 2012 (UTC)		::::Finally, a bit off this topic of Akai, but I put "southpaw stance" back in the Sera bullet and changed "high right leg sweep" to "right roundhouse kick aimed at the head." Stances are often used as a means of identifying handedness, that's the whole reason I put the stance there in the first place and used the rest to argue against this logic and point out an example in JKD classes. Otherwise, you may as well not even mention the specific moves and just say "fought with Ran." The leg in "leg sweep" refers to the target, not the attack. Sera's movement and the fact that her leg is turned to strike with the instep as well as the power of it makes me almost certain it's a roundhouse and not a crescent. (Sorry, forgot to sign) [[User:BlackWings\|BlackWings]] 00:12, 23 May 2012 (UTC)
		+
		+	:::::This is not a wiki page. It's a personal page, so please don't edit it without consulting me first. I've pretty much said all I've needed to say to you regarding handedness, Fanged Loathe, both to your current username, and to your other IPs, and elsewhere, even after you decided to act like a total dick on my userpage and pretend like you could come back unnoticed. Don't like my evaluation? Please make your own and then maybe you can convince other people to accept it. I don't care to go around in circles with you anymore because it is uninformative. I've earned my reputation for accurate assessment here at DCW and at DCTP which are the two core groups of dedicated English language Conan fans on the internet. If you were really serious, you would not need to sockpuppet like you are trying to hide to try to make your point. You would sign up in the forum, and attack directly, under the scrutiny of the best group of Conan mystery solvers on the internet. I recommend DCTP where I am not a mod. [[User:Chekhov MacGuffin\|'''<font color="#B22222">Chekhov</font> <font color="#2F4F4F">MacGuffin</font>''']] <sup>[[User talk:Chekhov MacGuffin\|'''<font color="#696969">talk</font>''']]</sup> 01:02, 23 May 2012 (UTC)

@@ Line 86: / Line 86: @@
 ::::Your list is about how they never use their dominant hand in every avoidable situation, but Akai contradicts this theory, with every off-dominant action having a reason of necessity and/or simplicity that enable it to be argued away. Likewise, there's no action from his right hand that more heavily indicates left handedness (the only one being: 596 - left hand for phone, right for binoculars; and even this follows the "awkward logic" given that Akai's cell phone was most likely in a pocket meant for his left hand). Additionally, there's the shotgun from 434. Even Captain America, Red Skull, and the real life human guinea pigs of Super Soldier Programs would struggle with a one handed shotgun blast, not to mention the one handed pump wastes time in which he can keep Vermouth covered (and we saw the direct result of wasting that time when Vermouth positioned herself to put Conan, Ran, and Haibara in the path of the shell). All I'm saying is Akai defies your list's logic, and his right hand is unique among all others as the only one used only in unavoidable actions. This is especially unique when you consider all evidence suggests Akai seems to be naturally left handed. We live in a right handed world, most appliances are specifically designed for right handed use, so most left handed people learn to use their right hand frequently and become ambidextrous by accident. Akai's severe lack of avoidable right handed action is in no way normal, which indicates he's deliberately sealing his right hand.
 ::::Also, for Akai's rifle shot from 504. The point wasn't about his handedness, it's about the note. That probably is an art error, but the note is an argument that only applies in a world without cross dominance (no matter the person) and is instantly called into question when we see Akai does everything in his power to not use his right hand unless he absolutely has no choice in the matter.
-::::Finally, a bit off this topic of Akai, but I put "southpaw stance" back in the Sera bullet and changed "high right leg sweep" to "right roundhouse kick aimed at the head." Stances are often used as a means of identifying handedness, that's the whole reason I put the stance there in the first place and used the rest to argue against this logic and point out an example in JKD classes. Otherwise, you may as well not even mention the specific moves and just say "fought with Ran." The leg in "leg sweep" refers to the target, not the attack. Sera's movement and the fact that her leg is turned to strike with the instep as well as the power of it makes me almost certain it's a roundhouse and not a crescent.
+::::Finally, a bit off this topic of Akai, but I put "southpaw stance" back in the Sera bullet and changed "high right leg sweep" to "right roundhouse kick aimed at the head." Stances are often used as a means of identifying handedness, that's the whole reason I put the stance there in the first place and used the rest to argue against this logic and point out an example in JKD classes. Otherwise, you may as well not even mention the specific moves and just say "fought with Ran." The leg in "leg sweep" refers to the target, not the attack. Sera's movement and the fact that her leg is turned to strike with the instep as well as the power of it makes me almost certain it's a roundhouse and not a crescent. (Sorry, forgot to sign) [[User:BlackWings|BlackWings]] 00:12, 23 May 2012 (UTC)

← Older revision		Revision as of 00:11, 23 May 2012
Line 78:		Line 78:
	:::For Okiya around Sera, if he is trying to hide his identity as Akai from Sera, pretending to be right handed makes sense, especially if his left hand is occupied doing something else surreptitious. Cross dominance might be indicated if Subaru suddenly turned out to be a good writer when using his right hand with Sera around, but unfortunately brushing teeth and pointing are things a totally left handed person can easily fake with no prior practice.		:::For Okiya around Sera, if he is trying to hide his identity as Akai from Sera, pretending to be right handed makes sense, especially if his left hand is occupied doing something else surreptitious. Cross dominance might be indicated if Subaru suddenly turned out to be a good writer when using his right hand with Sera around, but unfortunately brushing teeth and pointing are things a totally left handed person can easily fake with no prior practice.
	:::TLDR, I will continue to reject your assertions unless presented with significant evidence to the contrary because my evaluations have shown that all characters, even known handed ones, have non-dominant hand usage. Some-non-dominant usage is therefore expected and thus using these few cherry picked moments is unconvincing unless there is a disproportionate amount of them. Okiya and Akai's offhand use fall within the relative usage limits for single hand dominance, so I see them as left handed. [[User:Chekhov MacGuffin\|'''<font color="#B22222">Chekhov</font> <font color="#2F4F4F">MacGuffin</font>''']] <sup>[[User talk:Chekhov MacGuffin\|'''<font color="#696969">talk</font>''']]</sup> 17:55, 17 May 2012 (UTC)		:::TLDR, I will continue to reject your assertions unless presented with significant evidence to the contrary because my evaluations have shown that all characters, even known handed ones, have non-dominant hand usage. Some-non-dominant usage is therefore expected and thus using these few cherry picked moments is unconvincing unless there is a disproportionate amount of them. Okiya and Akai's offhand use fall within the relative usage limits for single hand dominance, so I see them as left handed. [[User:Chekhov MacGuffin\|'''<font color="#B22222">Chekhov</font> <font color="#2F4F4F">MacGuffin</font>''']] <sup>[[User talk:Chekhov MacGuffin\|'''<font color="#696969">talk</font>''']]</sup> 17:55, 17 May 2012 (UTC)
		+	::::It's interesting you use the word "compare," because that's the part I have doubts on. If you do compare Akai's actions to known left-handed Gin, you'll notice a serious distinction. In fact, you don't even need to go that far, simply look at Akai's. Akai has a total of three avoidable uses of his right hand (five if we count the IPs assertion of the busjacking and the fruit basket), compared to Gin's double digits. Now, if we remove the ones where Gin may have needed to use his right hand (Ex. 504 Shushes Vodka: possible necessity of keeping the handkerchief snug with the movement of the car) or the ones that strongly indicate left handedness (Ex. 1 Right hand holding pipe: indicates the pipe went to the right when it came down, in turn indicating a left handed grip - supported by the fact his left shoulder seems more prominent), we're down to four:
		+	::::1 - Opened APTX container with left hand, while pulling pill out with right
		+	::::502 – left to hold radio in one panel, then switched to right hand in next panel appearance, then back to left again for 2 panels, then back to right for two panels
		+	::::Bear in mind, the last one contains multiple instances, but the point is Gin had a few actions where the right hand was a choice on his part. Even grabbing Korn's rifle is indicative of left handedness, given that he grabbed it by the barrel which is where his right hand goes anyway (it's easier and wastes less time this way). However, if we apply this to Akai's list, then he loses all avoidable right handed use (and I'll be skipping the three you already handled):
		+	::::289 - Uses radio with right hand (standing) (given he was looking for Sherry and aware of some Organization presence, this is easily comparable to when he grabbed Ran in New York)
		+	::::608 - right hand to hold cell phone and click buttons (he most likely realized he may need his left hand to stop James again, which seems likely given that Akai's truck needed to be started up and has the lever on the right - there's no other reason for him to keep his right hand occupied and waste time)
		+	::::Your list is about how they never use their dominant hand in every avoidable situation, but Akai contradicts this theory, with every off-dominant action having a reason of necessity and/or simplicity that enable it to be argued away. Likewise, there's no action from his right hand that more heavily indicates left handedness (the only one being: 596 - left hand for phone, right for binoculars; and even this follows the "awkward logic" given that Akai's cell phone was most likely in a pocket meant for his left hand). Additionally, there's the shotgun from 434. Even Captain America, Red Skull, and the real life human guinea pigs of Super Soldier Programs would struggle with a one handed shotgun blast, not to mention the one handed pump wastes time in which he can keep Vermouth covered (and we saw the direct result of wasting that time when Vermouth positioned herself to put Conan, Ran, and Haibara in the path of the shell). All I'm saying is Akai defies your list's logic, and his right hand is unique among all others as the only one used only in unavoidable actions. This is especially unique when you consider all evidence suggests Akai seems to be naturally left handed. We live in a right handed world, most appliances are specifically designed for right handed use, so most left handed people learn to use their right hand frequently and become ambidextrous by accident. Akai's severe lack of avoidable right handed action is in no way normal, which indicates he's deliberately sealing his right hand.
		+	::::Also, for Akai's rifle shot from 504. The point wasn't about his handedness, it's about the note. That probably is an art error, but the note is an argument that only applies in a world without cross dominance (no matter the person) and is instantly called into question when we see Akai does everything in his power to not use his right hand unless he absolutely has no choice in the matter.
		+	::::Finally, a bit off this topic of Akai, but I put "southpaw stance" back in the Sera bullet and changed "high right leg sweep" to "right roundhouse kick aimed at the head." Stances are often used as a means of identifying handedness, that's the whole reason I put the stance there in the first place and used the rest to argue against this logic and point out an example in JKD classes. Otherwise, you may as well not even mention the specific moves and just say "fought with Ran." The leg in "leg sweep" refers to the target, not the attack. Sera's movement and the fact that her leg is turned to strike with the instep as well as the power of it makes me almost certain it's a roundhouse and not a crescent.

@@ Line 66: / Line 66: @@
 :I don't make any assumptions here regarding cross dominance or ambidexterity. I assume both are possible which is why I document everything to look for usage patterns. Even though I haven't included Kudo Yuusaku on this list I remember when I worked him up once, I decided there was a case for him being ambidextrous. Also there is some clear partial cross dominance going on for virtually all the characters using their communications devices because they often deviate from handedness as normal. I will add the assumption that I believe none of the characters are deliberately hiding their true handedness in the long term. [[User:Chekhov MacGuffin|'''<font color="#B22222">Chekhov</font> <font color="#2F4F4F">MacGuffin</font>''']] <sup>[[User talk:Chekhov MacGuffin|'''<font color="#696969">talk</font>''']]</sup> 23:53, 13 April 2012 (UTC)
 ::Yes you do sweety, and you successfully missed my point. The fact is both Subaru and Akai are cross dominant, but you're insisting they're only left handed. There's an ample number of cases where they both swap out their hands for more than just communication devices, and the IP person pointed some of Akai's out for you. Subaru's are much more obvious, especially after the recent toothbrush in Chapter 812: he chooses his left when he's alone and in a private setting while choosing his right when he's out in public or when he knows people are around (whether or not they are trained or natural is unknown). Both of these characters are cross dominant, Subaru a total ambidextrous (trained or natural unknown, though the ash tray and bottle in 817 as well as his rescues of the Detective Boys lead me to say natural), Akai is mixed handed at the very least (he could, and probably is, a total ambidextrous like Subaru, but he's sealed his right hand for the most part), and the assumption no one is hiding their true hand was disproven by Subaru. This was my point in adding this detail.
+::Additionally, moving on to more speculative arguments, you also dismissed cross dominance for Akai's sniping. Some cross dominance extends solely to certain tasks in which someone otherwise right handed can only/best perform a task with his/her left hand (commonly called mixed handedness, who are addressed as left-mixed or right-mixed handed, sometimes no "mixed" based upon the hand they use most often). This disproves your argument on why the panel of Akai holding a right handed rifle with his left hand is not deliberate on his part: even if he's a right-mixed handed, he could be better at shooting with his left, and would (as you pointed out) shoot with his left. Am I saying this is right? No, in fact I think he's an ambidextrous and that is an art error. The point is you dismissed cross dominance even though Akai is a clear case. (Also, how do you sign these things again?) [[BlackWings]] 15:09, 17 May 2012
-Additionally, moving on to more speculative arguments, you also dismissed cross dominance for Akai's sniping. Some cross dominance extends solely to certain tasks in which someone otherwise right handed can only/best perform a task with his/her left hand (commonly called mixed handedness, who are addressed as left-mixed or right-mixed handed, sometimes no "mixed" based upon the hand they use most often). This disproves your argument on why the panel of Akai holding a right handed rifle with his left hand is not deliberate on his part: even if he's a right-mixed handed, he could be better at shooting with his left, and would (as you pointed out) shoot with his left. Am I saying this is right? No, in fact I think he's an ambidextrous and that is an art error. The point is you dismissed cross dominance even though Akai is a clear case. (Also, how do you sign these things again?)
+:::You sign using four tildes is a row (<nowiki>~~~~</nowiki>). I understand why you are suggesting cross dominance as a possible solution, however, the reason I am continuing to reject your assertions and support that Okiya and Akai are left handed because ''compared to other characters with known handedness'' Okiya/Akai does not show significantly more right handed use by comparison that would indicate cross dominance. Making the assumption that not every character in Gosho's work is cross dominant, which is reasonable as only 5-10% of the population is mixed handed last study I saw, then I can map out where characters fall on the spectrum of handedness use and start making judgment calls based on clustering and distribution in that relative spectrum. I am also drawing from more data than is presented here. Although only the main arc characters are on this list, I have been following lots of other characters (Conan, Ran, Kogoro, Takagi, etc...) and all of them have many situations where they use their non-dominant hands/legs/eyes/etc. significantly. They are not on this list because working up and formatting just 20-30 chapters of appearances for appropriate presentation takes multiple hours. You are free to confirm these observations if you wish.<br />