User:Chekhov MacGuffin/Unknown drug - Revision history

Chekhov MacGuffin: /* 50 year old project */ precision

2017-06-27T00:03:09Z

50 year old project: precision

← Older revision		Revision as of 00:03, 27 June 2017
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	{{quote\|"Kudo-kun? You would probably never even dream that you are already part of a project the Black Organization has been working on already for half a century."\|Haibara's thoughts on Shinichi's shrunken predicament<ref>Manga [[Volume 19#File_189_-_The_Endangered_Ball\|Volume 19, File 9 (189), Page 6: The Endangered Ball]]; [[The Stadium Indiscriminate Threatening Case\|Episodes 130-131: The Stadium Indiscriminate Threatening Case]]</ref>}}		{{quote\|"Kudo-kun? You would probably never even dream that you are already part of a project the Black Organization has been working on already for half a century."\|Haibara's thoughts on Shinichi's shrunken predicament<ref>Manga [[Volume 19#File_189_-_The_Endangered_Ball\|Volume 19, File 9 (189), Page 6: The Endangered Ball]]; [[The Stadium Indiscriminate Threatening Case\|Episodes 130-131: The Stadium Indiscriminate Threatening Case]]</ref>}}

	[[APTX 4869]] is the only known intersection between Shinichi and the Black Organization, meaning that Shinichi's de-aging made him relevant to the Black Organization's project. That project is, according to Haibara, over 50 years old. Atsushi and Elena Miyano only joined the Black Organization some 30 years ago at most when Atsushi left his parents' house to take up research.<ref name=f423>[[Volume_41#File_423_-_A_Mystery_Left_by_a_Visitor\|Volume 41, File 423: "A Mystery Left by a Visitor"]]</ref> Even if one assumes their [[Silver Bullet (drug)\|Silver Bullet]] project was created immediately, that means there are at least 20 years unaccounted for prior to the Miyanos joining where the Black Organization had a project that APTX 4869 could be considered a piece of.		[[APTX 4869]] is the only known intersection between Shinichi and the Black Organization, meaning that Shinichi's de-aging made him relevant to the Black Organization's project. That project is, according to Haibara, over 50 years old. Atsushi and Elena Miyano only joined the Black Organization some 30 years ago at most when Atsushi left his parents' house to take up research.<ref name=f423>[[Volume_41#File_423_-_A_Mystery_Left_by_a_Visitor\|Volume 41, File 10 (423), pg 10: "A Mystery Left by a Visitor"]]</ref> Even if one assumes their [[Silver Bullet (drug)\|Silver Bullet]] project was created immediately, that means there are at least 20 years unaccounted for prior to the Miyanos joining where the Black Organization had a project that APTX 4869 could be considered a piece of.

	=== Vermouth's testimony ===		=== Vermouth's testimony ===

Chekhov MacGuffin: Cleanup

2017-05-11T00:55:01Z

Cleanup

← Older revision		Revision as of 00:55, 11 May 2017
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	{{quote\|If you [Shiho] want to blame someone, blame your parents '''who took over''' this foolish research.\|Vermouth starts to explain her motive for wanting to kill Shiho before Ran's heroics interrupt her.<ref>Manga [[Volume 42]], File 10 (434), page 6, bottom left panel: "Rotten Apple", Anime [[Episode 345]]</ref>}}		{{quote\|If you [Shiho] want to blame someone, blame your parents '''who took over''' this foolish research.\|Vermouth starts to explain her motive for wanting to kill Shiho before Ran's heroics interrupt her.<ref>Manga [[Volume 42]], File 10 (434), page 6, bottom left panel: "Rotten Apple", Anime [[Episode 345]]</ref>}}

	It is notable that Vermouth, who is strongly suspected to not be aging<ref>Train case with Yukiko Ref</ref> or have deaged at some point, is aware of the projects' chain of custody over time and has very strong feelings about it.		It is notable that Vermouth, who is strongly suspected to not be aging<ref>Train case with Yukiko Ref</ref> or have deaged at some point, is aware of the projects' chain of custody over time and has very strong feelings about it. For her to know the details of a project that go back at least 30 years speak to her longevity within the Organization.

	~~=== Another drug ===~~
	~~Haibara alludes to the existence of a drug other than APTX 4869 in her thoughts.~~

	{{quote\|'''Haibara:''' And the fact that <nowiki>[</nowiki>[[Kohji Haneda]]'s] name was on the [[List of Black Organization related characters#APTX 4869_Victims\|list of victims]] who were given [[APTX 4869]], I'd say there's a good chance that [[Asaka]] was one of the members of the Black Organization!<br>
	~~'''Conan:''' I don't get it. Kohji Haneda was killed 17 years ago. Then why is his name under mine in the list?<br>~~
	~~'''Haibara:''' Perhaps the person who compiled the list wasn't going by chronological order. Maybe it was sorted by blood type or something.<br>~~
	~~'''Conan:''' Wait a minute, so the drug that I was forced to take existed 17 years ago? And you are its creator? How old are you really?<br>~~
	'''Haibara:''' How rude. I've told you before. I am 18 now. Perhaps it was an early prototype of a drug made by my parents. The information for the drug that I created was mostly taken from the burnt remains of the data that my parents left behind.<br>
	~~'''Conan:''' Burnt remains? What do you mean?<br>~~
	'''Haibara:''' Well, the research lab that my parents worked in caught fire, and along with them, most of their research materials were burnt. I heard from the other members of the Organization that it was an accident.<br>
	~~''Well, what I was really ordered to make was another drug, however...<!-- SPIMER EXACT TRANS FOR THIS ONE LINE-->''\|Manga [[Volume 89]], File 11 (948), Pages 3-4: "The Clenched Scissors"}}~~

	~~This drug may very well be [[Silver Bullet]].~~

	~~-Check, does Haibara's quote imply that she didn't work on the other drug the Black Organization wanted? Japanese vs English on implications.~~
	~~<!--~~
	=== Vermouth's aging issue ===		=== Vermouth's aging issue ===
			Vermouth's lack of aging invites the two questions of when she stopped aging and what drug caused this. The most probable answer is a drug which predates Shiho's APTX 4869, and the Miyano's effort to Silver Bullet ~17-18 years ago.

	~~Vermouth's lack of aging presents another conundrum.~~ As explained by Jodie and Akai in their showdown with Vermouth, matching fingerprints mean she is definitely the same woman as the one who killed [[Jodie Starling]]'s father twenty years ago, yet her face hasn't changed. She also admitted to pretending to age.<ref>"It's actually quite tough you know - pretending that it's not just your face, but everything about you that's aging too." (823 p2)</ref> That means at some point Vermouth was exposed to some event or drug which halted her aging, de-aged her, or both~~. The question is when this would have happened, and this would shed light on what compound affected her~~.		As explained by Jodie and Akai in their showdown with Vermouth, matching fingerprints mean she is definitely the same woman as the one who killed [[Jodie Starling]]'s father twenty years ago, yet her face hasn't changed. She also admitted to pretending to age.<ref>"It's actually quite tough you know - pretending that it's not just your face, but everything about you that's aging too." (823 p2)</ref> That means at some point Vermouth was exposed to some event or drug which halted her aging, de-aged her, or both.

	At minimum, Vermouth would have had to stop aging sometime before she created Chris ~~because there would be no reason for~~ Chris to ~~exist otherwise~~. That means Vermouth stopped aging at least 10-29 years ago, which is definitely older than Shiho's five year-old APTX project.		At minimum, Vermouth would have had to stop aging sometime before she created Chris. Vermouth created Chris so that she had a persona she could take over when pretending to age as Sharon became "too tough" as she put it. That means Vermouth stopped aging at least 10-29 years ago, which is definitely older than Shiho's five year-old APTX project.

			Vermouth's aging problem probably also predates the 18 year old Silver Bullet Project as well. Twenty years ago, with the same face she has today, she personally murdered Jodie Starling's father and burned all his files because he knew some vital secret. Also 20 years ago, Vermouth was Toichi's apprentice, learning disguise. While not conclusive, both those activities imply that 20 years ago or earlier she had stopped aging and was acting to protect this secret. Since the Miyanos seemed to only be getting close to finishing Silver Bullet about 18 years ago, then Vermouth's apparent drugging would predate their best efforts and their accident.

	~~Vermouth~~'s ~~aging problem probably also predates~~ the ~~18 year old Silver Bullet Project as well~~. ~~Twenty~~ years ~~ago~~, ~~with~~ the ~~same face she has today~~, ~~she personally murdered Jodie Starling~~'~~s father and burned all his files because he knew some vital secret~~. ~~Also 20 years ago,~~ Vermouth was ~~Toichi's apprentice~~, ~~learning disguise. While not conclusive~~, ~~both those activities imply~~ that ~~20 years ago or earlier~~ she ~~had~~ stopped aging ~~and~~ was ~~acting to protect this secret~~. ~~Finally~~, ~~there are the suspicious deaths~~ of her ~~family~~ and ~~husband to consider. Assuming~~ she ~~or the Black Organization killed them in order~~ to hide her ~~non-aging secret,~~ her ~~need for makeup skills,~~ and ~~fake~~ pregnancy~~/child, that~~ would ~~place the~~ timeframe ~~of her non-aging event at least 30~~ years ~~before~~ the ~~current timeline, matching when Sharon was 20-30 years old. here~~ is ~~no evidence that Silver Bullet actually was~~ a ~~successful compound~~. ~~In fact, it appears that it was probably~~ the ~~same project as APTX 4869 (discussed in~~ the ~~Black~~ Organization ~~section above~~.~~). It's hard~~ to ~~believe she~~ would ~~intentionally take such a drug~~.		Finally, there is Sharon's career choice and the suspicious deaths of her family to consider. So far, the known shrunken victims besides Vermouth have followed the pattern where they lose a certain number of years after being drugged. Shiho and Shinichi lost about 11 and 10 years respectively, and Mary lost about 40 years roughly. It is unclear if they have stopped aging as not enough time seems to have passed in the current timeline for them to notice, or they haven't mentioned it. While there is no guarantee the drug that Vermouth was affected by has the same mode of action, if it is similar, then it seems reasonable to think that Vermouth was even older than Mary when she was dosed for her apparent age to be in her twenties. The other possibility is that her drug worked differently and Vermouth simply stopped aging (e.g Sharon was 20-30 years old). <br>Either way, she would need to acquire disguise skills and forge a new life/get rid of anyone closely connected with her who could discover her secret. Her move to an acting career and the concomitant makeup skills she would acquire solve first problem by giving her skills to hide her condition. Killing or "killing" her parents and her husband would solve the second. Faking a pregnancy for Chris would give her a future persona to switch into. The timeframe for this is 29 years (Chris's age) + a fake pregnancy + the lag time where Vermouth discovers that she is not aging and needs a plan to deal with it and get rid of people who would know her. That lines up with or just predates the timeframe where the Miyanos entered the Organization. That would seem to rule out any drug that they created would be the cause of her aging problem.

			== Slush Section ==

	~~-->~~		[[Kohji Haneda]] was killed by an APTX 4869-like drug 17 years ago. Implies the Miyano parents' APTX drug not working so well, assuming it is a prototype.
	~~<!--~~
	[[Kohji Haneda]] was killed by an APTX 4869-like drug 17 years ago. Implies the Miyano parents' APTX drug not working so well.

	~~== Silver Bullet ==~~
	~~Why it's not silver Bullet.~~
	~~Evidence suggests that Silver Bullet and APTX 4869 are the same drug. Even if you assume that is not the case, Haibara's thoughts.~~
	~~Haibara says she "resurrected" the research by gathering notes left behind by her parents.~~
	~~-->~~

	== References ==		== References ==

Chekhov MacGuffin: Holding point

2017-05-10T22:51:08Z

Holding point

← Older revision		Revision as of 22:51, 10 May 2017
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	[[Image:948p3-4 other drug convo.jpg\|thumb\|right\|x500px\|The full context regarding Haibara's discussion of her parent's death and another drug different from the APTX/Silver Bullet her parents made]]		[[Image:948p3-4 other drug convo.jpg\|thumb\|right\|x500px\|The full context regarding Haibara's discussion of her parent's death and another drug different from the APTX/Silver Bullet her parents made]]

	A hypothetical drug or chemical of some sort that predates Atsushi, Elena, and Shiho's work for the Black Organization.		Various conversations have alluded to a hypothetical drug or chemical of some sort that predates Atsushi, Elena, and Shiho's work for the Black Organization.


	== Evidence for existence ==		== Evidence for existence ==
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	[[APTX 4869]] is the only known intersection between Shinichi and the Black Organization, meaning that Shinichi's de-aging made him relevant to the Black Organization's project. That project is, according to Haibara, over 50 years old. Atsushi and Elena Miyano only joined the Black Organization some 30 years ago at most when Atsushi left his parents' house to take up research.<ref name=f423>[[Volume_41#File_423_-_A_Mystery_Left_by_a_Visitor\|Volume 41, File 423: "A Mystery Left by a Visitor"]]</ref> Even if one assumes their [[Silver Bullet (drug)\|Silver Bullet]] project was created immediately, that means there are at least 20 years unaccounted for prior to the Miyanos joining where the Black Organization had a project that APTX 4869 could be considered a piece of.		[[APTX 4869]] is the only known intersection between Shinichi and the Black Organization, meaning that Shinichi's de-aging made him relevant to the Black Organization's project. That project is, according to Haibara, over 50 years old. Atsushi and Elena Miyano only joined the Black Organization some 30 years ago at most when Atsushi left his parents' house to take up research.<ref name=f423>[[Volume_41#File_423_-_A_Mystery_Left_by_a_Visitor\|Volume 41, File 423: "A Mystery Left by a Visitor"]]</ref> Even if one assumes their [[Silver Bullet (drug)\|Silver Bullet]] project was created immediately, that means there are at least 20 years unaccounted for prior to the Miyanos joining where the Black Organization had a project that APTX 4869 could be considered a piece of.

			=== Vermouth's testimony ===
			'''Note: need Japanese text transcript of Volume 42, File 10, Page 6 Bottom left panel to verify translation accuracy and include text for source.'''

			In the [[Head-to-Head Match with the Black Organization: A Dual Mystery on a Full Moon Night\|head to head showdown against Vermouth]], [[Vermouth]] hinted there was an earlier project that the Miyanos assumed control over when they joined the [[Black Organization]]

			{{quote\|If you [Shiho] want to blame someone, blame your parents '''who took over''' this foolish research.\|Vermouth starts to explain her motive for wanting to kill Shiho before Ran's heroics interrupt her.<ref>Manga [[Volume 42]], File 10 (434), page 6, bottom left panel: "Rotten Apple", Anime [[Episode 345]]</ref>}}

			It is notable that Vermouth, who is strongly suspected to not be aging<ref>Train case with Yukiko Ref</ref> or have deaged at some point, is aware of the projects' chain of custody over time and has very strong feelings about it.

	=== Another drug ===		=== Another drug ===
			Haibara alludes to the existence of a drug other than APTX 4869 in her thoughts.

	{{quote\|'''Haibara:''' And the fact that <nowiki>[</nowiki>[[Kohji Haneda]]'s] name was on the [[List of Black Organization related characters#APTX 4869_Victims\|list of victims]] who were given [[APTX 4869]], I'd say there's a good chance that [[Asaka]] was one of the members of the Black Organization!<br>		{{quote\|'''Haibara:''' And the fact that <nowiki>[</nowiki>[[Kohji Haneda]]'s] name was on the [[List of Black Organization related characters#APTX 4869_Victims\|list of victims]] who were given [[APTX 4869]], I'd say there's a good chance that [[Asaka]] was one of the members of the Black Organization!<br>
	'''Conan:''' I don't get it. Kohji Haneda was killed 17 years ago. Then why is his name under mine in the list?<br>		'''Conan:''' I don't get it. Kohji Haneda was killed 17 years ago. Then why is his name under mine in the list?<br>
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	'''Haibara:''' Well, the research lab that my parents worked in caught fire, and along with them, most of their research materials were burnt. I heard from the other members of the Organization that it was an accident.<br>		'''Haibara:''' Well, the research lab that my parents worked in caught fire, and along with them, most of their research materials were burnt. I heard from the other members of the Organization that it was an accident.<br>
	''Well, what I was really ordered to make was another drug, however...<!-- SPIMER EXACT TRANS FOR THIS ONE LINE-->''\|Manga [[Volume 89]], File 11 (948), Pages 3-4: "The Clenched Scissors"}}		''Well, what I was really ordered to make was another drug, however...<!-- SPIMER EXACT TRANS FOR THIS ONE LINE-->''\|Manga [[Volume 89]], File 11 (948), Pages 3-4: "The Clenched Scissors"}}

			This drug may very well be [[Silver Bullet]].

	-Check, does Haibara's quote imply that she didn't work on the other drug the Black Organization wanted? Japanese vs English on implications.		-Check, does Haibara's quote imply that she didn't work on the other drug the Black Organization wanted? Japanese vs English on implications.
	<!-->		<!--
	=== Vermouth's aging issue ===		=== Vermouth's aging issue ===

Chekhov MacGuffin: some more notes

2016-08-02T00:03:03Z

some more notes

← Older revision		Revision as of 00:03, 2 August 2016
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	== Evidence for existence ==		== Evidence for existence ==
	=== ~~Haibara's thoughts~~ ===		=== 50 year old project ===
	{{quote\|"Kudo-kun? You would probably never even dream that you are already part of a project the Black Organization has been working on already for half a century."\|Haibara's thoughts on Shinichi's shrunken predicament<ref>Manga [[Volume 19#File_189_-_The_Endangered_Ball\|Volume 19, File 9 (189), Page 6: The Endangered Ball]]; [[The Stadium Indiscriminate Threatening Case\|Episodes 130-131: The Stadium Indiscriminate Threatening Case]]</ref>}}		{{quote\|"Kudo-kun? You would probably never even dream that you are already part of a project the Black Organization has been working on already for half a century."\|Haibara's thoughts on Shinichi's shrunken predicament<ref>Manga [[Volume 19#File_189_-_The_Endangered_Ball\|Volume 19, File 9 (189), Page 6: The Endangered Ball]]; [[The Stadium Indiscriminate Threatening Case\|Episodes 130-131: The Stadium Indiscriminate Threatening Case]]</ref>}}

	[[APTX 4869]] is the only known intersection between Shinichi and the Black Organization, meaning that Shinichi's de-aging made him relevant to the Black Organization's project. That project is, according to Haibara, over 50 years old. Atsushi and Elena Miyano only joined the Black Organization some 30 years ago at most when Atsushi left his parents' house to take up research.<ref name=f423>[[Volume_41#File_423_-_A_Mystery_Left_by_a_Visitor\|Volume 41, File 423: "A Mystery Left by a Visitor"]]</ref> ~~That~~ means there are at least 20 years unaccounted for prior to the Miyanos joining where the Black Organization had a project that APTX 4869 could be considered a piece of.		[[APTX 4869]] is the only known intersection between Shinichi and the Black Organization, meaning that Shinichi's de-aging made him relevant to the Black Organization's project. That project is, according to Haibara, over 50 years old. Atsushi and Elena Miyano only joined the Black Organization some 30 years ago at most when Atsushi left his parents' house to take up research.<ref name=f423>[[Volume_41#File_423_-_A_Mystery_Left_by_a_Visitor\|Volume 41, File 423: "A Mystery Left by a Visitor"]]</ref> Even if one assumes their [[Silver Bullet (drug)\|Silver Bullet]] project was created immediately, that means there are at least 20 years unaccounted for prior to the Miyanos joining where the Black Organization had a project that APTX 4869 could be considered a piece of.


			=== Another drug ===
	{{quote\|'''Haibara:''' And the fact that <nowiki>[</nowiki>[[Kohji Haneda]]'s] name was on the [[List of Black Organization related characters#APTX 4869_Victims\|list of victims]] who were given [[APTX 4869]], I'd say there's a good chance that [[Asaka]] was one of the members of the Black Organization!<br>		{{quote\|'''Haibara:''' And the fact that <nowiki>[</nowiki>[[Kohji Haneda]]'s] name was on the [[List of Black Organization related characters#APTX 4869_Victims\|list of victims]] who were given [[APTX 4869]], I'd say there's a good chance that [[Asaka]] was one of the members of the Black Organization!<br>
	'''Conan:''' I don't get it. Kohji Haneda was killed 17 years ago. Then why is his name under mine in the list?<br>		'''Conan:''' I don't get it. Kohji Haneda was killed 17 years ago. Then why is his name under mine in the list?<br>
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	-Check, does Haibara's quote imply that she didn't work on the other drug the Black Organization wanted? Japanese vs English on implications.		-Check, does Haibara's quote imply that she didn't work on the other drug the Black Organization wanted? Japanese vs English on implications.
			<!-->
			=== Vermouth's aging issue ===

			Vermouth's lack of aging presents another conundrum. As explained by Jodie and Akai in their showdown with Vermouth, matching fingerprints mean she is definitely the same woman as the one who killed [[Jodie Starling]]'s father twenty years ago, yet her face hasn't changed. She also admitted to pretending to age.<ref>"It's actually quite tough you know - pretending that it's not just your face, but everything about you that's aging too." (823 p2)</ref> That means at some point Vermouth was exposed to some event or drug which halted her aging, de-aged her, or both. The question is when this would have happened, and this would shed light on what compound affected her.

			At minimum, Vermouth would have had to stop aging sometime before she created Chris because there would be no reason for Chris to exist otherwise. That means Vermouth stopped aging at least 10-29 years ago, which is definitely older than Shiho's five year-old APTX project.


			Vermouth's aging problem probably also predates the 18 year old Silver Bullet Project as well. Twenty years ago, with the same face she has today, she personally murdered Jodie Starling's father and burned all his files because he knew some vital secret. Also 20 years ago, Vermouth was Toichi's apprentice, learning disguise. While not conclusive, both those activities imply that 20 years ago or earlier she had stopped aging and was acting to protect this secret. Finally, there are the suspicious deaths of her family and husband to consider. Assuming she or the Black Organization killed them in order to hide her non-aging secret, her need for makeup skills, and fake pregnancy/child, that would place the timeframe of her non-aging event at least 30 years before the current timeline, matching when Sharon was 20-30 years old. here is no evidence that Silver Bullet actually was a successful compound. In fact, it appears that it was probably the same project as APTX 4869 (discussed in the Black Organization section above.). It's hard to believe she would intentionally take such a drug.

	~~<!--=== Vermouth's aging issue ===~~

	~~Vermouth's aging issue presents another conundrum.~~		-->
	[[Kohji Haneda]] was killed by an APTX 4869-like drug 17 years ago. ~~The 18 year~~		<!--
			[[Kohji Haneda]] was killed by an APTX 4869-like drug 17 years ago. Implies the Miyano parents' APTX drug not working so well.

	== Silver Bullet ==		== Silver Bullet ==
	Why it's not silver Bullet.		Why it's not silver Bullet.
	Evidence suggests that Silver Bullet and APTX 4869 are the same drug. Even if you assume that is not the case, Haibara's thoughts.		Evidence suggests that Silver Bullet and APTX 4869 are the same drug. Even if you assume that is not the case, Haibara's thoughts.
	Haibara says she "resurrected" the research by gathering notes left behind by her parents. ~~Same project~~		Haibara says she "resurrected" the research by gathering notes left behind by her parents.
	-->		-->

Chekhov MacGuffin: Spimer exact translation

2016-08-01T22:51:38Z

Spimer exact translation

← Older revision		Revision as of 22:51, 1 August 2016
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	'''Conan:''' Burnt remains? What do you mean?<br>		'''Conan:''' Burnt remains? What do you mean?<br>
	'''Haibara:''' Well, the research lab that my parents worked in caught fire, and along with them, most of their research materials were burnt. I heard from the other members of the Organization that it was an accident.<br>		'''Haibara:''' Well, the research lab that my parents worked in caught fire, and along with them, most of their research materials were burnt. I heard from the other members of the Organization that it was an accident.<br>
	''~~But~~ what ~~they~~ really ~~wanted me~~ to make was another drug.''\|Manga [[Volume 89]], File 11 (948), Pages 3-4: "The Clenched Scissors"}}		''Well, what I was really ordered to make was another drug, however...<!-- SPIMER EXACT TRANS FOR THIS ONE LINE-->''\|Manga [[Volume 89]], File 11 (948), Pages 3-4: "The Clenched Scissors"}}

	-Check, does Haibara's quote imply that she didn't work on the other drug the Black Organization wanted? Japanese vs English on implications.		-Check, does Haibara's quote imply that she didn't work on the other drug the Black Organization wanted? Japanese vs English on implications.

Chekhov MacGuffin: /* Haibara's thoughts */ transcription

2016-07-29T20:51:42Z

Haibara's thoughts: transcription

← Older revision		Revision as of 20:51, 29 July 2016
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	Haibara's ~~recent quote Awaiting more precise translation~~ and ~~source quote~~.		{{quote\|'''Haibara:''' And the fact that <nowiki>[</nowiki>[[Kohji Haneda]]'s] name was on the [[List of Black Organization related characters#APTX 4869_Victims\|list of victims]] who were given [[APTX 4869]], I'd say there's a good chance that [[Asaka]] was one of the members of the Black Organization!<br>
			'''Conan:''' I don't get it. Kohji Haneda was killed 17 years ago. Then why is his name under mine in the list?<br>
			'''Haibara:''' Perhaps the person who compiled the list wasn't going by chronological order. Maybe it was sorted by blood type or something.<br>
			'''Conan:''' Wait a minute, so the drug that I was forced to take existed 17 years ago? And you are its creator? How old are you really?<br>
			'''Haibara:''' How rude. I've told you before. I am 18 now. Perhaps it was an early prototype of a drug made by my parents. The information for the drug that I created was mostly taken from the burnt remains of the data that my parents left behind.<br>
			'''Conan:''' Burnt remains? What do you mean?<br>
			'''Haibara:''' Well, the research lab that my parents worked in caught fire, and along with them, most of their research materials were burnt. I heard from the other members of the Organization that it was an accident.<br>
			''But what they really wanted me to make was another drug.''\|Manga [[Volume 89]], File 11 (948), Pages 3-4: "The Clenched Scissors"}}

	-Check, does Haibara's quote imply that she didn't work on the other drug the Black Organization wanted? Japanese vs English on implications.		-Check, does Haibara's quote imply that she didn't work on the other drug the Black Organization wanted? Japanese vs English on implications.
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	Haibara says she "resurrected" the research by gathering notes left behind by her parents. Same project		Haibara says she "resurrected" the research by gathering notes left behind by her parents. Same project
	-->		-->


	== References ==		== References ==

Chekhov MacGuffin: Context panel. Will probably be moved later on.

2016-07-29T20:19:38Z

Context panel. Will probably be moved later on.

← Older revision		Revision as of 20:19, 29 July 2016
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			[[Image:948p3-4 other drug convo.jpg\|thumb\|right\|x500px\|The full context regarding Haibara's discussion of her parent's death and another drug different from the APTX/Silver Bullet her parents made]]

	A hypothetical drug or chemical of some sort that predates Atsushi, Elena, and Shiho's work for the Black Organization.		A hypothetical drug or chemical of some sort that predates Atsushi, Elena, and Shiho's work for the Black Organization.

Chekhov MacGuffin: notes for later

2016-02-11T23:43:57Z

notes for later

← Older revision		Revision as of 23:43, 11 February 2016
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	50 years ago...		A hypothetical drug or chemical of some sort that predates Atsushi, Elena, and Shiho's work for the Black Organization.


			== Evidence for existence ==
			=== Haibara's thoughts ===
			{{quote\|"Kudo-kun? You would probably never even dream that you are already part of a project the Black Organization has been working on already for half a century."\|Haibara's thoughts on Shinichi's shrunken predicament<ref>Manga [[Volume 19#File_189_-_The_Endangered_Ball\|Volume 19, File 9 (189), Page 6: The Endangered Ball]]; [[The Stadium Indiscriminate Threatening Case\|Episodes 130-131: The Stadium Indiscriminate Threatening Case]]</ref>}}

			[[APTX 4869]] is the only known intersection between Shinichi and the Black Organization, meaning that Shinichi's de-aging made him relevant to the Black Organization's project. That project is, according to Haibara, over 50 years old. Atsushi and Elena Miyano only joined the Black Organization some 30 years ago at most when Atsushi left his parents' house to take up research.<ref name=f423>[[Volume_41#File_423_-_A_Mystery_Left_by_a_Visitor\|Volume 41, File 423: "A Mystery Left by a Visitor"]]</ref> That means there are at least 20 years unaccounted for prior to the Miyanos joining where the Black Organization had a project that APTX 4869 could be considered a piece of.


			Haibara's recent quote Awaiting more precise translation and source quote.

			-Check, does Haibara's quote imply that she didn't work on the other drug the Black Organization wanted? Japanese vs English on implications.

			<!--=== Vermouth's aging issue ===

			Vermouth's aging issue presents another conundrum.
			[[Kohji Haneda]] was killed by an APTX 4869-like drug 17 years ago. The 18 year

			== Silver Bullet ==
			Why it's not silver Bullet.
			Evidence suggests that Silver Bullet and APTX 4869 are the same drug. Even if you assume that is not the case, Haibara's thoughts.
			Haibara says she "resurrected" the research by gathering notes left behind by her parents. Same project
			-->


			== References ==
			<References/>


			{{APTX 4869}}
			[[Category:Theories]]
			[[Category:Objects]]

Chekhov MacGuffin: Enough proof of existence to get this one rolling under fan theories.

2016-02-09T05:31:22Z

Enough proof of existence to get this one rolling under fan theories.

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50 years ago...