Talk:Vermouth - Revision history

Chekhov MacGuffin: /* Does this make sense? */

2014-07-27T02:47:36Z

‎Does this make sense?

Chekhov MacGuffin: /* Does this make sense? */ I'll answer but wait please

2014-07-03T02:40:14Z

‎Does this make sense?: I'll answer but wait please

87.8.35.186: /* Does this make sense? */

2014-07-02T21:59:06Z

‎Does this make sense?

87.8.51.184: /* Does this make sense? */

2014-06-25T15:59:35Z

‎Does this make sense?

87.8.52.34: /* Does this make sense? */ new section

2014-06-20T15:26:21Z

‎Does this make sense?: new section

Chekhov MacGuffin: /* Name origin */ dubious name origin

2013-01-15T00:34:14Z

‎Name origin: dubious name origin

Chekhov MacGuffin: /* Vermouth's disguises */ keep Chris

2012-10-21T12:35:04Z

‎Vermouth's disguises: keep Chris

Black Demon: /* Vermouth's disguises */ new section

2012-10-21T06:14:24Z

‎Vermouth's disguises: new section

Chekhov MacGuffin: /* Name origin */ new section

2012-10-10T00:52:14Z

‎Name origin: new section

Chekhov MacGuffin: /* Maurice's template */ additional details for a point and note to IP/user involved.

2011-06-30T21:47:07Z

‎Maurice's template: additional details for a point and note to IP/user involved.

← Older revision		Revision as of 02:47, 27 July 2014
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	: I'll answer, but I'm taking a break from everything but basic mod duties. It's been a year or so since I dealt with Vermouth stuff so I'll have to go back through my notes. [[User:Chekhov MacGuffin\|'''<font color="#B22222">Chekhov</font> <font color="#2F4F4F">MacGuffin</font>''']] <sup>[[User talk:Chekhov MacGuffin\|'''<font color="#696969">talk</font>''']]</sup> 04:40, 3 July 2014 (CEST)		: I'll answer, but I'm taking a break from everything but basic mod duties. It's been a year or so since I dealt with Vermouth stuff so I'll have to go back through my notes. [[User:Chekhov MacGuffin\|'''<font color="#B22222">Chekhov</font> <font color="#2F4F4F">MacGuffin</font>''']] <sup>[[User talk:Chekhov MacGuffin\|'''<font color="#696969">talk</font>''']]</sup> 04:40, 3 July 2014 (CEST)
		+	: I think Shinichi first sided with 2 because he suspected Akai was the killer. He later heard from Ran that Akai was FBI. Shinichi was still suspicious of Akai for some time after that. ... I'll work on the second part. I have to review the last half of the Vermouth arc because I didn't have notes on this point. [[User:Chekhov MacGuffin\|'''<font color="#B22222">Chekhov</font> <font color="#2F4F4F">MacGuffin</font>''']] <sup>[[User talk:Chekhov MacGuffin\|'''<font color="#696969">talk</font>''']]</sup> 04:47, 27 July 2014 (CEST)

← Older revision		Revision as of 02:40, 3 July 2014
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	Will I ever get an answer? --[[Special:Contributions/87.8.35.186\|87.8.35.186]] 23:59, 2 July 2014 (CEST)		Will I ever get an answer? --[[Special:Contributions/87.8.35.186\|87.8.35.186]] 23:59, 2 July 2014 (CEST)
		+
		+	: I'll answer, but I'm taking a break from everything but basic mod duties. It's been a year or so since I dealt with Vermouth stuff so I'll have to go back through my notes. [[User:Chekhov MacGuffin\|'''<font color="#B22222">Chekhov</font> <font color="#2F4F4F">MacGuffin</font>''']] <sup>[[User talk:Chekhov MacGuffin\|'''<font color="#696969">talk</font>''']]</sup> 04:40, 3 July 2014 (CEST)

← Older revision		Revision as of 21:59, 2 July 2014
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	Is anybody here? --[[Special:Contributions/87.8.51.184\|87.8.51.184]] 17:59, 25 June 2014 (CEST)		Is anybody here? --[[Special:Contributions/87.8.51.184\|87.8.51.184]] 17:59, 25 June 2014 (CEST)
		+
		+	Will I ever get an answer? --[[Special:Contributions/87.8.35.186\|87.8.35.186]] 23:59, 2 July 2014 (CEST)

← Older revision		Revision as of 15:59, 25 June 2014
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	Why would Conan think of something as counter-intuitive as the idea that the killer he fought was someone in disguise? --[[Special:Contributions/87.8.52.34\|87.8.52.34]] 17:26, 20 June 2014 (CEST)		Why would Conan think of something as counter-intuitive as the idea that the killer he fought was someone in disguise? --[[Special:Contributions/87.8.52.34\|87.8.52.34]] 17:26, 20 June 2014 (CEST)
		+
		+	Is anybody here? --[[Special:Contributions/87.8.51.184\|87.8.51.184]] 17:59, 25 June 2014 (CEST)

← Older revision		Revision as of 15:26, 20 June 2014
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	Hm... Is "Chris Vineyard" considered as one of her disguises ? I thought it was proven that it is her real face when Akai shot her, even though the identity is fake ? Although "Chris" may not be her "actual look" (just like Shinichi is Conan's "actual look") because of the non-aging, I still don't think that it can be counted as a disguise. What do you think ? --- [[User:Black Demon\|Black Demon]]		Hm... Is "Chris Vineyard" considered as one of her disguises ? I thought it was proven that it is her real face when Akai shot her, even though the identity is fake ? Although "Chris" may not be her "actual look" (just like Shinichi is Conan's "actual look") because of the non-aging, I still don't think that it can be counted as a disguise. What do you think ? --- [[User:Black Demon\|Black Demon]]
	:I think it's still worth listing Chris even though Vermouth doesn't do much if any makeup for it. Chris is still a fake person she created and pretends to be, even if Chris's face and Vermouth's face are identical at this point in time. Vermouth speaks flawless Japanese, Chris pretends to be weak at Japanese or speaks only in English for example. [[User:Chekhov MacGuffin\|'''<font color="#B22222">Chekhov</font> <font color="#2F4F4F">MacGuffin</font>''']] <sup>[[User talk:Chekhov MacGuffin\|'''<font color="#696969">talk</font>''']]</sup> 12:35, 21 October 2012 (UTC)		:I think it's still worth listing Chris even though Vermouth doesn't do much if any makeup for it. Chris is still a fake person she created and pretends to be, even if Chris's face and Vermouth's face are identical at this point in time. Vermouth speaks flawless Japanese, Chris pretends to be weak at Japanese or speaks only in English for example. [[User:Chekhov MacGuffin\|'''<font color="#B22222">Chekhov</font> <font color="#2F4F4F">MacGuffin</font>''']] <sup>[[User talk:Chekhov MacGuffin\|'''<font color="#696969">talk</font>''']]</sup> 12:35, 21 October 2012 (UTC)
		+
		+	== Does this make sense? ==
		+
		+	I have some problems with the following paragraph:
		+
		+	''At the same time Shinichi and Ran were in New York City, Vermouth disguised as a silver-haired serial killer in order to lure out Shuichi Akai. Later, Conan suspected the serial killer may have been someone in disguise when he heard that the serial killer’s blood and fingerprints on the stair rails were cleaned up, an action uncharacteristic for someone intending to commit suicide. Sharon was the only person Conan knew about in the local area with high disguise abilities, so suspicion naturally fell onto her.''
		+
		+	I don't understand the reasoning behind this. Sure, a person who is about to commit suicide probably won't bother cleaning up his fingerprints and blood trails, but this should lead to 2 hypothesis:
		+
		+	1)The serial killer was about to clean up everything and got shot after fighting Shinichi and before the police arrived (that's what Conan says in file 355, pag.3).
		+
		+	2)The serial killer was killed by someone who then cleaned up everything.
		+
		+	Why would Conan think of something as counter-intuitive as the idea that the killer he fought was someone in disguise? --[[Special:Contributions/87.8.52.34\|87.8.52.34]] 17:26, 20 June 2014 (CEST)

← Older revision		Revision as of 00:34, 15 January 2013
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	On a different note, I did some searching and ran across [[Wikipedia:Sharon Gless\|Sharon Gless]] who played Sgt. Christine Cagney in the police procedural drama series [[Wikipedia:Cagney & Lacey\|Cagney & Lacey]] (1982–1988). [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cagney_%26_Lacey#Awards_and_Nominations There are a lot of prestigious awards connected to the drama, and Sharon won a few best actresses for it]. The setting is New York City. I also confirmed the drama [http://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E5%A5%B3%E5%88%91%E4%BA%8B%E3%82%AD%E3%83%A3%E3%82%B0%E3%83%8B%E3%83%BC%26%E3%83%AC%E3%82%A4%E3%82%B7%E3%83%BC#.E6.97.A5.E6.9C.AC.E3.81.A7.E3.81.AE.E6.94.BE.E6.98.A0.E5.B1.80 was aired in Japan, but I'm not sure if it was dubbed or subtitled]. That said, this could easily be a coincidence. I would hope some more of Vermouth's history, like Broadway and the Golden Apple, would be reflected by her name origin. [[User:Chekhov MacGuffin\|'''<font color="#B22222">Chekhov</font> <font color="#2F4F4F">MacGuffin</font>''']] <sup>[[User talk:Chekhov MacGuffin\|'''<font color="#696969">talk</font>''']]</sup> 00:52, 10 October 2012 (UTC)		On a different note, I did some searching and ran across [[Wikipedia:Sharon Gless\|Sharon Gless]] who played Sgt. Christine Cagney in the police procedural drama series [[Wikipedia:Cagney & Lacey\|Cagney & Lacey]] (1982–1988). [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cagney_%26_Lacey#Awards_and_Nominations There are a lot of prestigious awards connected to the drama, and Sharon won a few best actresses for it]. The setting is New York City. I also confirmed the drama [http://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E5%A5%B3%E5%88%91%E4%BA%8B%E3%82%AD%E3%83%A3%E3%82%B0%E3%83%8B%E3%83%BC%26%E3%83%AC%E3%82%A4%E3%82%B7%E3%83%BC#.E6.97.A5.E6.9C.AC.E3.81.A7.E3.81.AE.E6.94.BE.E6.98.A0.E5.B1.80 was aired in Japan, but I'm not sure if it was dubbed or subtitled]. That said, this could easily be a coincidence. I would hope some more of Vermouth's history, like Broadway and the Golden Apple, would be reflected by her name origin. [[User:Chekhov MacGuffin\|'''<font color="#B22222">Chekhov</font> <font color="#2F4F4F">MacGuffin</font>''']] <sup>[[User talk:Chekhov MacGuffin\|'''<font color="#696969">talk</font>''']]</sup> 00:52, 10 October 2012 (UTC)
		+
		+	:There have been no updates on the name origin issue, so I'm removing the dubious stuff to here. [[User:Chekhov MacGuffin\|'''<font color="#B22222">Chekhov</font> <font color="#2F4F4F">MacGuffin</font>''']] <sup>[[User talk:Chekhov MacGuffin\|'''<font color="#696969">talk</font>''']]</sup> 00:34, 15 January 2013 (UTC)
		+	:Vermouth's name derives from the Japanese rendering of British musical group, [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blurt Blurt] member, "'''Chris Vine'''" (from ''Chris Vine''yard) and "'''Christina Mackenzie'''" (クリスチーナ・マッケンジー ''Kurisuchīna Makkenjī'') from Gundam.{{dubious}}

	== Vermouth's disguises ==		== Vermouth's disguises ==

← Older revision		Revision as of 12:35, 21 October 2012
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	Hm... Is "Chris Vineyard" considered as one of her disguises ? I thought it was proven that it is her real face when Akai shot her, even though the identity is fake ? Although "Chris" may not be her "actual look" (just like Shinichi is Conan's "actual look") because of the non-aging, I still don't think that it can be counted as a disguise. What do you think ? --- [[User:Black Demon\|Black Demon]]		Hm... Is "Chris Vineyard" considered as one of her disguises ? I thought it was proven that it is her real face when Akai shot her, even though the identity is fake ? Although "Chris" may not be her "actual look" (just like Shinichi is Conan's "actual look") because of the non-aging, I still don't think that it can be counted as a disguise. What do you think ? --- [[User:Black Demon\|Black Demon]]
		+	:I think it's still worth listing Chris even though Vermouth doesn't do much if any makeup for it. Chris is still a fake person she created and pretends to be, even if Chris's face and Vermouth's face are identical at this point in time. Vermouth speaks flawless Japanese, Chris pretends to be weak at Japanese or speaks only in English for example. [[User:Chekhov MacGuffin\|'''<font color="#B22222">Chekhov</font> <font color="#2F4F4F">MacGuffin</font>''']] <sup>[[User talk:Chekhov MacGuffin\|'''<font color="#696969">talk</font>''']]</sup> 12:35, 21 October 2012 (UTC)

← Older revision		Revision as of 06:14, 21 October 2012
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	On a different note, I did some searching and ran across [[Wikipedia:Sharon Gless\|Sharon Gless]] who played Sgt. Christine Cagney in the police procedural drama series [[Wikipedia:Cagney & Lacey\|Cagney & Lacey]] (1982–1988). [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cagney_%26_Lacey#Awards_and_Nominations There are a lot of prestigious awards connected to the drama, and Sharon won a few best actresses for it]. The setting is New York City. I also confirmed the drama [http://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E5%A5%B3%E5%88%91%E4%BA%8B%E3%82%AD%E3%83%A3%E3%82%B0%E3%83%8B%E3%83%BC%26%E3%83%AC%E3%82%A4%E3%82%B7%E3%83%BC#.E6.97.A5.E6.9C.AC.E3.81.A7.E3.81.AE.E6.94.BE.E6.98.A0.E5.B1.80 was aired in Japan, but I'm not sure if it was dubbed or subtitled]. That said, this could easily be a coincidence. I would hope some more of Vermouth's history, like Broadway and the Golden Apple, would be reflected by her name origin. [[User:Chekhov MacGuffin\|'''<font color="#B22222">Chekhov</font> <font color="#2F4F4F">MacGuffin</font>''']] <sup>[[User talk:Chekhov MacGuffin\|'''<font color="#696969">talk</font>''']]</sup> 00:52, 10 October 2012 (UTC)		On a different note, I did some searching and ran across [[Wikipedia:Sharon Gless\|Sharon Gless]] who played Sgt. Christine Cagney in the police procedural drama series [[Wikipedia:Cagney & Lacey\|Cagney & Lacey]] (1982–1988). [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cagney_%26_Lacey#Awards_and_Nominations There are a lot of prestigious awards connected to the drama, and Sharon won a few best actresses for it]. The setting is New York City. I also confirmed the drama [http://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E5%A5%B3%E5%88%91%E4%BA%8B%E3%82%AD%E3%83%A3%E3%82%B0%E3%83%8B%E3%83%BC%26%E3%83%AC%E3%82%A4%E3%82%B7%E3%83%BC#.E6.97.A5.E6.9C.AC.E3.81.A7.E3.81.AE.E6.94.BE.E6.98.A0.E5.B1.80 was aired in Japan, but I'm not sure if it was dubbed or subtitled]. That said, this could easily be a coincidence. I would hope some more of Vermouth's history, like Broadway and the Golden Apple, would be reflected by her name origin. [[User:Chekhov MacGuffin\|'''<font color="#B22222">Chekhov</font> <font color="#2F4F4F">MacGuffin</font>''']] <sup>[[User talk:Chekhov MacGuffin\|'''<font color="#696969">talk</font>''']]</sup> 00:52, 10 October 2012 (UTC)
		+
		+	== Vermouth's disguises ==
		+
		+	Hm... Is "Chris Vineyard" considered as one of her disguises ? I thought it was proven that it is her real face when Akai shot her, even though the identity is fake ? Although "Chris" may not be her "actual look" (just like Shinichi is Conan's "actual look") because of the non-aging, I still don't think that it can be counted as a disguise. What do you think ? --- [[User:Black Demon\|Black Demon]]

← Older revision		Revision as of 00:52, 10 October 2012
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	==references==		==references==
	<References/>		<References/>
		+
		+	== Name origin ==
		+
		+	I think the name origin for Chris Vineyard proposed [http://www.detectiveconanworld.com/wiki/index.php?title=Vermouth&oldid=84451 currently] is rather doubtful. ''(Vermouth's name derives from the Japanese rendering of British musical group, [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blurt Blurt] member, "'''Chris Vine'''" (from ''Chris Vine''yard) and "'''Christina Mackenzie'''" (クリスチーナ・マッケンジー ''Kurisuchīna Makkenjī'') from Gundam.)'' Gosho doesn't normally name his characters after obscure band members (Yoko Okino/Yoko Ono exempted for being in line with her profession and extremely well known), and the Gundam names have only been used for people closely connected to Akai (Camel, Sera, Amuro).
		+
		+	On a different note, I did some searching and ran across [[Wikipedia:Sharon Gless\|Sharon Gless]] who played Sgt. Christine Cagney in the police procedural drama series [[Wikipedia:Cagney & Lacey\|Cagney & Lacey]] (1982–1988). [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cagney_%26_Lacey#Awards_and_Nominations There are a lot of prestigious awards connected to the drama, and Sharon won a few best actresses for it]. The setting is New York City. I also confirmed the drama [http://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E5%A5%B3%E5%88%91%E4%BA%8B%E3%82%AD%E3%83%A3%E3%82%B0%E3%83%8B%E3%83%BC%26%E3%83%AC%E3%82%A4%E3%82%B7%E3%83%BC#.E6.97.A5.E6.9C.AC.E3.81.A7.E3.81.AE.E6.94.BE.E6.98.A0.E5.B1.80 was aired in Japan, but I'm not sure if it was dubbed or subtitled]. That said, this could easily be a coincidence. I would hope some more of Vermouth's history, like Broadway and the Golden Apple, would be reflected by her name origin. [[User:Chekhov MacGuffin\|'''<font color="#B22222">Chekhov</font> <font color="#2F4F4F">MacGuffin</font>''']] <sup>[[User talk:Chekhov MacGuffin\|'''<font color="#696969">talk</font>''']]</sup> 00:52, 10 October 2012 (UTC)

@@ Line 235: / Line 235: @@
 == Maurice's template ==
-I am implementing Maurice's table idea. Let's try to keep things short and to the point.
+I am implementing Maurice's table idea. Let's try to keep things short and to the point. [[User:Chekhov MacGuffin|'''<font color="#B22222">Chekhov</font> <font color="#2F4F4F">MacGuffin</font>''']] <sup>[[User talk:Chekhov MacGuffin|'''<font color="#696969">talk</font>''']]</sup>
 {| class="wikitable"
-! Point being made !! IP 113.192.1.99 !! IP 109.235.49.143 !! Chekhov !! Consensus
+! Point being made !! IP 113.192.1.99 !! IP 113.192.1.99 !! Chekhov !! Consensus
 |-
 | The BO is currently using APTX  for...
@@ Line 318: / Line 319: @@
+*
+|
-* Pisco's case where Pisco had it as a backup should the chandelier drop fail. Gin refers to the drug Pisco has by APTX 4869's other known nickname, the "experimental detective." (pg 4 of volume 24 file 08 in the middle panel). After that, we can still assume that the remaining Org scientists haven't improved the formula significantly because the greater BO (ignoring Vermouth, Sherry, and dead people) still don't know about APTX occasionally causing deaging.<ref name=noknow/>
+* Pisco's case where Pisco had it as a backup should the chandelier drop fail. Gin refers to the drug Pisco has by APTX 4869's other known nickname, the "experimental detective." (V24-08 pg4). After that, we can still assume that the remaining Org scientists haven't improved the formula significantly because the greater BO (ignoring Vermouth, Sherry, and dead people) still don't know about APTX occasionally causing deaging.<ref name=noknow/>
+|
 |-
@@ Line 327: / Line 328: @@
+*
+|
-* Yes. In V24 F11 pg 9, Pisco mentioned three things. He was "very close" to Miyano Atsushi and Elena, he "heard a lot about the drug while it was still in development", and that Shiho's parents would be proud of her for managing to developing the drug to that point - where "that point" refers to Shiho deaging in front of his eyes. From this it is clear Pisco knows both that Shiho took over the project from her parents, and he knows the true purpose of APTX because he was impressed how far she had taken it meaning he knows what the end goal should be. If he was close to the parents and heard a lot about the drug, logically he would know the name of the project, especially because he was BO, and an executive agent at that (Conan Drill 239) on or nearly on the same level and Vermouth and Gin who are also executive agents. (Conan drill 239)
+* Yes. In V24 F11 pg 9, Pisco mentioned three things. He was "very close" to Miyano Atsushi and Elena, he "heard a lot about the drug while it was still in development", and that Shiho's parents would be proud of her for managing to developing the drug to that point - where "that point" refers to Shiho deaging in front of his eyes. From this it is clear Pisco knows both that Shiho took over the project from her parents, and he knows the true purpose of APTX because he was impressed how far she had taken it meaning he knows what the end goal should be. If he was close to the parents and heard a lot about the drug, logically he would know the name of the project, especially because he was BO, and an executive agent at that (Conan Drill 239) on or nearly on the same level and Vermouth and Gin who are also executive agents. (Conan drill 239) He also talked over the phone with Gin about using the "experimental detective", APTX's nickname. (V24-08 pg4) Haibara mentioned that some of the Org agents had taken to calling the APTX 4869 project by this nickname (V24-10 pg11). It's unlikely Pisco would know all the stuff I mentioned above and the nickname, yet not know the real name of the project is APTX 4869.
+|
 |-