Talk:Akai's fake death technique - Revision history

Chekhov MacGuffin: /* Flaws section */ Yeah, I think this idea is a non-starter.

2015-04-27T21:55:32Z

Flaws section: Yeah, I think this idea is a non-starter.

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	:::::Sounds right to me. I hope Gosho doesn't ever try to hide something from the reader like you suggested though. That would be cheating to hide what the other characters can see. [[User:Chekhov MacGuffin\|'''<font color="#B22222">Chekhov</font> <font color="#2F4F4F">MacGuffin</font>''']] <sup>[[User talk:Chekhov MacGuffin\|'''<font color="#696969">talk</font>''']]</sup> 16:44, 27 April 2015 (CEST)		:::::Sounds right to me. I hope Gosho doesn't ever try to hide something from the reader like you suggested though. That would be cheating to hide what the other characters can see. [[User:Chekhov MacGuffin\|'''<font color="#B22222">Chekhov</font> <font color="#2F4F4F">MacGuffin</font>''']] <sup>[[User talk:Chekhov MacGuffin\|'''<font color="#696969">talk</font>''']]</sup> 16:44, 27 April 2015 (CEST)
	::::::I meant hide it like the irregular borders on Jodie's photos, but now that I've seen what a pistol with a flash suppressor looks like and since I've looked at Files 608–609 again, it would have been obvious to everyone had there been a flash suppressor on the pistol—he would have had to "cheat" to hide it. The only way I can see this work is if the flash suppressor was built inside the pistol, rather than attached... but that's impossible, right? Sorry I keep asking about this, but I'd like to be sure that there's no way for a flash suppressor to be part of a gun as it's constructed. [[User:DCUniverseAficionado\|DCUniverseAficionado]] ([[User talk:DCUniverseAficionado\|talk]]) 18:40, 27 April 2015 (CEST)		::::::I meant hide it like the irregular borders on Jodie's photos, but now that I've seen what a pistol with a flash suppressor looks like and since I've looked at Files 608–609 again, it would have been obvious to everyone had there been a flash suppressor on the pistol—he would have had to "cheat" to hide it. The only way I can see this work is if the flash suppressor was built inside the pistol, rather than attached... but that's impossible, right? Sorry I keep asking about this, but I'd like to be sure that there's no way for a flash suppressor to be part of a gun as it's constructed. [[User:DCUniverseAficionado\|DCUniverseAficionado]] ([[User talk:DCUniverseAficionado\|talk]]) 18:40, 27 April 2015 (CEST)
			:::::::If it was inside the gun, the side vents would be covered which would make things worse IMO. Also, the gun looks like a perfectly ordinary handgun which means there isn't a lot to work with in the muzzle. Preparing a fake gun to match Gin's in time would be difficult as you mentioned. I just don't see the possibility of sneaking a flash suppressor onto or into the gun being realistic. [[User:Chekhov MacGuffin\|'''<font color="#B22222">Chekhov</font> <font color="#2F4F4F">MacGuffin</font>''']] <sup>[[User talk:Chekhov MacGuffin\|'''<font color="#696969">talk</font>''']]</sup> 23:55, 27 April 2015 (CEST)

DCUniverseAficionado: /* Flaws section */

2015-04-27T16:40:22Z

Flaws section

← Older revision		Revision as of 16:40, 27 April 2015
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	::::"Flash suppressors must have a particular form in order to function properly." Ah... now I get it—thanks for clearing things up. Still, if Gosho wanted to use this as an explanation, he should've drawn things in such a way that the flash suppressor was hard to see, from the reader's perspective. Then again, Gin would have seen the flash suppressor when she leveled the gun at his head, right? And, if not, the absence of a flash would've been noticed, right? [[User:DCUniverseAficionado\|DCUniverseAficionado]] ([[User talk:DCUniverseAficionado\|talk]]) 16:12, 27 April 2015 (CEST)		::::"Flash suppressors must have a particular form in order to function properly." Ah... now I get it—thanks for clearing things up. Still, if Gosho wanted to use this as an explanation, he should've drawn things in such a way that the flash suppressor was hard to see, from the reader's perspective. Then again, Gin would have seen the flash suppressor when she leveled the gun at his head, right? And, if not, the absence of a flash would've been noticed, right? [[User:DCUniverseAficionado\|DCUniverseAficionado]] ([[User talk:DCUniverseAficionado\|talk]]) 16:12, 27 April 2015 (CEST)
	:::::Sounds right to me. I hope Gosho doesn't ever try to hide something from the reader like you suggested though. That would be cheating to hide what the other characters can see. [[User:Chekhov MacGuffin\|'''<font color="#B22222">Chekhov</font> <font color="#2F4F4F">MacGuffin</font>''']] <sup>[[User talk:Chekhov MacGuffin\|'''<font color="#696969">talk</font>''']]</sup> 16:44, 27 April 2015 (CEST)		:::::Sounds right to me. I hope Gosho doesn't ever try to hide something from the reader like you suggested though. That would be cheating to hide what the other characters can see. [[User:Chekhov MacGuffin\|'''<font color="#B22222">Chekhov</font> <font color="#2F4F4F">MacGuffin</font>''']] <sup>[[User talk:Chekhov MacGuffin\|'''<font color="#696969">talk</font>''']]</sup> 16:44, 27 April 2015 (CEST)
			::::::I meant hide it like the irregular borders on Jodie's photos, but now that I've seen what a pistol with a flash suppressor looks like and since I've looked at Files 608–609 again, it would have been obvious to everyone had there been a flash suppressor on the pistol—he would have had to "cheat" to hide it. The only way I can see this work is if the flash suppressor was built inside the pistol, rather than attached... but that's impossible, right? Sorry I keep asking about this, but I'd like to be sure that there's no way for a flash suppressor to be part of a gun as it's constructed. [[User:DCUniverseAficionado\|DCUniverseAficionado]] ([[User talk:DCUniverseAficionado\|talk]]) 18:40, 27 April 2015 (CEST)

Chekhov MacGuffin: responses

2015-04-27T14:44:45Z

responses

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	Gin and Vodka were distracted by the incoming police, but wouldn't they—Gin, especially—have still heard the rustling of Shuichi moving Kusuda's body? Then again, the manga has Kir move around the open passenger-side door to the front while she prepares the bomb—actually, wouldn't that make Gin suspicious? He'd surely question her need to move to the front, right? In the anime, Kir doesn't seem to move at all—in fact, her head doesn't seem to move, thus exposing the inside of the car to Gin—did the anime mess up, again? [[User:DCUniverseAficionado\|DCUniverseAficionado]] ([[User talk:DCUniverseAficionado\|talk]]) 16:12, 27 April 2015 (CEST)		Gin and Vodka were distracted by the incoming police, but wouldn't they—Gin, especially—have still heard the rustling of Shuichi moving Kusuda's body? Then again, the manga has Kir move around the open passenger-side door to the front while she prepares the bomb—actually, wouldn't that make Gin suspicious? He'd surely question her need to move to the front, right? In the anime, Kir doesn't seem to move at all—in fact, her head doesn't seem to move, thus exposing the inside of the car to Gin—did the anime mess up, again? [[User:DCUniverseAficionado\|DCUniverseAficionado]] ([[User talk:DCUniverseAficionado\|talk]]) 16:12, 27 April 2015 (CEST)

			:Despite what we may think, Gin didn't say anything in the end and thought Akai was dead afterwards, so he seemed satisfied in spite of Kir's movements. That may seem OOC, but it is what it is. Whatever happened in the anime doesn't count because it is non-canon. The animators make mistakes, and they made quite a few in this scene, including the critical bloodtrails. [[User:Chekhov MacGuffin\|'''<font color="#B22222">Chekhov</font> <font color="#2F4F4F">MacGuffin</font>''']] <sup>[[User talk:Chekhov MacGuffin\|'''<font color="#696969">talk</font>''']]</sup> 16:44, 27 April 2015 (CEST)

	== Flaws section ==		== Flaws section ==
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	:::You are free to note that the use of flash suppressor might have solved the muzzle blast problem, although it appears one was not used. The thing I am taking issue with is making a claim which definitely conflicts what was shown in the manga. If someone said about the body in an [[An Idol's Locked Room Murder Case]], "Unless the coroner flipped it over, there appears to be an error because the body is shown stomach-down when the guy died instantly by throwing himself back-first on his knife." I would definitely object to that first part because Kogoro found the body like that long before the coroner got there. I don't have any problem with making the claim that the coroner might be wrong about exact instant death, or the body might have flopped over because of post-mortem muscle spasms. [[User:Chekhov MacGuffin\|'''<font color="#B22222">Chekhov</font> <font color="#2F4F4F">MacGuffin</font>''']] <sup>[[User talk:Chekhov MacGuffin\|'''<font color="#696969">talk</font>''']]</sup> 05:45, 27 April 2015 (CEST)		:::You are free to note that the use of flash suppressor might have solved the muzzle blast problem, although it appears one was not used. The thing I am taking issue with is making a claim which definitely conflicts what was shown in the manga. If someone said about the body in an [[An Idol's Locked Room Murder Case]], "Unless the coroner flipped it over, there appears to be an error because the body is shown stomach-down when the guy died instantly by throwing himself back-first on his knife." I would definitely object to that first part because Kogoro found the body like that long before the coroner got there. I don't have any problem with making the claim that the coroner might be wrong about exact instant death, or the body might have flopped over because of post-mortem muscle spasms. [[User:Chekhov MacGuffin\|'''<font color="#B22222">Chekhov</font> <font color="#2F4F4F">MacGuffin</font>''']] <sup>[[User talk:Chekhov MacGuffin\|'''<font color="#696969">talk</font>''']]</sup> 05:45, 27 April 2015 (CEST)
	::::"Flash suppressors must have a particular form in order to function properly." Ah... now I get it—thanks for clearing things up. Still, if Gosho wanted to use this as an explanation, he should've drawn things in such a way that the flash suppressor was hard to see, from the reader's perspective. Then again, Gin would have seen the flash suppressor when she leveled the gun at his head, right? And, if not, the absence of a flash would've been noticed, right? [[User:DCUniverseAficionado\|DCUniverseAficionado]] ([[User talk:DCUniverseAficionado\|talk]]) 16:12, 27 April 2015 (CEST)		::::"Flash suppressors must have a particular form in order to function properly." Ah... now I get it—thanks for clearing things up. Still, if Gosho wanted to use this as an explanation, he should've drawn things in such a way that the flash suppressor was hard to see, from the reader's perspective. Then again, Gin would have seen the flash suppressor when she leveled the gun at his head, right? And, if not, the absence of a flash would've been noticed, right? [[User:DCUniverseAficionado\|DCUniverseAficionado]] ([[User talk:DCUniverseAficionado\|talk]]) 16:12, 27 April 2015 (CEST)
			:::::Sounds right to me. I hope Gosho doesn't ever try to hide something from the reader like you suggested though. That would be cheating to hide what the other characters can see. [[User:Chekhov MacGuffin\|'''<font color="#B22222">Chekhov</font> <font color="#2F4F4F">MacGuffin</font>''']] <sup>[[User talk:Chekhov MacGuffin\|'''<font color="#696969">talk</font>''']]</sup> 16:44, 27 April 2015 (CEST)

DCUniverseAficionado at 14:12, 27 April 2015

2015-04-27T14:12:44Z

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	::::I think I see what you are referring to, but I meant specifics - not just basic information (head shot) that they got later on. As in, is there any indication as to whether or not they ever obtained autopsy records regarding the body that they then thought was Shuuichi, making one of the points in 'problems with this theory' irrelevant? If the only indication they had as to the state of the body was regarding what they expected (head shot, lung shot, burns, etc.), which is of course the least they would have worked to get, then it wouldn't matter much if the shot was to the temple rather than the forehead, and the later addition of a lung shot might not matter either. What I really mean is, where does it mention how in-depth their intelligence on the subject was? [[User:Ki-RBT\|Ki-RBT]] ([[User talk:Ki-RBT\|talk]]) 01:43, 4 November 2014 (CET)		::::I think I see what you are referring to, but I meant specifics - not just basic information (head shot) that they got later on. As in, is there any indication as to whether or not they ever obtained autopsy records regarding the body that they then thought was Shuuichi, making one of the points in 'problems with this theory' irrelevant? If the only indication they had as to the state of the body was regarding what they expected (head shot, lung shot, burns, etc.), which is of course the least they would have worked to get, then it wouldn't matter much if the shot was to the temple rather than the forehead, and the later addition of a lung shot might not matter either. What I really mean is, where does it mention how in-depth their intelligence on the subject was? [[User:Ki-RBT\|Ki-RBT]] ([[User talk:Ki-RBT\|talk]]) 01:43, 4 November 2014 (CET)

			Gin and Vodka were distracted by the incoming police, but wouldn't they—Gin, especially—have still heard the rustling of Shuichi moving Kusuda's body? Then again, the manga has Kir move around the open passenger-side door to the front while she prepares the bomb—actually, wouldn't that make Gin suspicious? He'd surely question her need to move to the front, right? In the anime, Kir doesn't seem to move at all—in fact, her head doesn't seem to move, thus exposing the inside of the car to Gin—did the anime mess up, again? [[User:DCUniverseAficionado\|DCUniverseAficionado]] ([[User talk:DCUniverseAficionado\|talk]]) 16:12, 27 April 2015 (CEST)

	== Flaws section ==		== Flaws section ==
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	::Yeah, I can be a bit apologetic at times, so...		::Yeah, I can be a bit apologetic at times, so...
	::More to the point—so there's no way to hide a flash suppressor, huh? Considering the small window of time Conan/Shinichi and co. had, I don't think Agasa could've made a gun with hidden flash suppressor, and, even if he had, there would be the risk of Gin giving Kir a different kind of gun. By the way, what pistol did Kir shoot Shuichi with? A Beretta is my guess, but I could be off the mark.		::More to the point—so there's no way to hide a flash suppressor, huh? Considering the small window of time Conan/Shinichi and co. had, I don't think Agasa could've made a gun with hidden flash suppressor, and, even if he had, there would be the risk of Gin giving Kir a different kind of gun. By the way, what pistol did Kir shoot Shuichi with? A Beretta is my guess, but I could be off the mark.
	::I agree about avoiding the global Watsonian perspective, but, more often than not, I try to find explanations other than, "the people making this work of fiction screwed up," not because I'm trying to give them a free pass, but because I want to make sure there are acceptable alternative explanations to the most obvious out-of-universe explanation that comes up when things happen that throw viewers/readers for a loop. That's my view, anyway–I completely understand, accept, and support people taking issue with something unrealistic that breaks suspension of disbelief–I, myself, just don't have those kinds of issues with fiction.		::I agree about avoiding the global Watsonian perspective, but, more often than not, I try to find explanations other than, "the people making this work of fiction screwed up," not because I'm trying to give them a free pass, but because I want to make sure there are acceptable alternative explanations to the most obvious out-of-universe explanation that comes up when things happen that throw viewers/readers for a loop. That's my view, anyway–I completely understand, accept, and support people taking issue with something unrealistic that breaks suspension of disbelief–I, myself, just don't have those kinds of issues with fiction. [[User:DCUniverseAficionado\|DCUniverseAficionado]] ([[User talk:DCUniverseAficionado\|talk]]) 16:12, 27 April 2015 (CEST)
	:::It is not a matter of if it is possible to sneak out and hide a flash suppressor, the central issue is that there wasn't one visible on the gun as it fired -- which means one wasn't used. Flash suppressors must have a particular form in order to function properly. If you try to disguise the suppressor by covering those vents that allow gas to blow out the side instead of all out the front, the suppressor stops working as intended and all the gas explodes out the front. The gun appears to be a SIG-Sauer P226.		:::It is not a matter of if it is possible to sneak out and hide a flash suppressor, the central issue is that there wasn't one visible on the gun as it fired -- which means one wasn't used. Flash suppressors must have a particular form in order to function properly. If you try to disguise the suppressor by covering those vents that allow gas to blow out the side instead of all out the front, the suppressor stops working as intended and all the gas explodes out the front. The gun appears to be a SIG-Sauer P226.
	:::You are free to note that the use of flash suppressor might have solved the muzzle blast problem, although it appears one was not used. The thing I am taking issue with is making a claim which definitely conflicts what was shown in the manga. If someone said about the body in an [[An Idol's Locked Room Murder Case]], "Unless the coroner flipped it over, there appears to be an error because the body is shown stomach-down when the guy died instantly by throwing himself back-first on his knife." I would definitely object to that first part because Kogoro found the body like that long before the coroner got there. I don't have any problem with making the claim that the coroner might be wrong about exact instant death, or the body might have flopped over because of post-mortem muscle spasms. [[User:Chekhov MacGuffin\|'''<font color="#B22222">Chekhov</font> <font color="#2F4F4F">MacGuffin</font>''']] <sup>[[User talk:Chekhov MacGuffin\|'''<font color="#696969">talk</font>''']]</sup> 05:45, 27 April 2015 (CEST)		:::You are free to note that the use of flash suppressor might have solved the muzzle blast problem, although it appears one was not used. The thing I am taking issue with is making a claim which definitely conflicts what was shown in the manga. If someone said about the body in an [[An Idol's Locked Room Murder Case]], "Unless the coroner flipped it over, there appears to be an error because the body is shown stomach-down when the guy died instantly by throwing himself back-first on his knife." I would definitely object to that first part because Kogoro found the body like that long before the coroner got there. I don't have any problem with making the claim that the coroner might be wrong about exact instant death, or the body might have flopped over because of post-mortem muscle spasms. [[User:Chekhov MacGuffin\|'''<font color="#B22222">Chekhov</font> <font color="#2F4F4F">MacGuffin</font>''']] <sup>[[User talk:Chekhov MacGuffin\|'''<font color="#696969">talk</font>''']]</sup> 05:45, 27 April 2015 (CEST)
			::::"Flash suppressors must have a particular form in order to function properly." Ah... now I get it—thanks for clearing things up. Still, if Gosho wanted to use this as an explanation, he should've drawn things in such a way that the flash suppressor was hard to see, from the reader's perspective. Then again, Gin would have seen the flash suppressor when she leveled the gun at his head, right? And, if not, the absence of a flash would've been noticed, right? [[User:DCUniverseAficionado\|DCUniverseAficionado]] ([[User talk:DCUniverseAficionado\|talk]]) 16:12, 27 April 2015 (CEST)

Chekhov MacGuffin: /* Flaws section */ I think I might have been confusing.

2015-04-27T03:45:27Z

Flaws section: I think I might have been confusing.

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	::More to the point—so there's no way to hide a flash suppressor, huh? Considering the small window of time Conan/Shinichi and co. had, I don't think Agasa could've made a gun with hidden flash suppressor, and, even if he had, there would be the risk of Gin giving Kir a different kind of gun. By the way, what pistol did Kir shoot Shuichi with? A Beretta is my guess, but I could be off the mark.		::More to the point—so there's no way to hide a flash suppressor, huh? Considering the small window of time Conan/Shinichi and co. had, I don't think Agasa could've made a gun with hidden flash suppressor, and, even if he had, there would be the risk of Gin giving Kir a different kind of gun. By the way, what pistol did Kir shoot Shuichi with? A Beretta is my guess, but I could be off the mark.
	::I agree about avoiding the global Watsonian perspective, but, more often than not, I try to find explanations other than, "the people making this work of fiction screwed up," not because I'm trying to give them a free pass, but because I want to make sure there are acceptable alternative explanations to the most obvious out-of-universe explanation that comes up when things happen that throw viewers/readers for a loop. That's my view, anyway–I completely understand, accept, and support people taking issue with something unrealistic that breaks suspension of disbelief–I, myself, just don't have those kinds of issues with fiction.		::I agree about avoiding the global Watsonian perspective, but, more often than not, I try to find explanations other than, "the people making this work of fiction screwed up," not because I'm trying to give them a free pass, but because I want to make sure there are acceptable alternative explanations to the most obvious out-of-universe explanation that comes up when things happen that throw viewers/readers for a loop. That's my view, anyway–I completely understand, accept, and support people taking issue with something unrealistic that breaks suspension of disbelief–I, myself, just don't have those kinds of issues with fiction.
			:::It is not a matter of if it is possible to sneak out and hide a flash suppressor, the central issue is that there wasn't one visible on the gun as it fired -- which means one wasn't used. Flash suppressors must have a particular form in order to function properly. If you try to disguise the suppressor by covering those vents that allow gas to blow out the side instead of all out the front, the suppressor stops working as intended and all the gas explodes out the front. The gun appears to be a SIG-Sauer P226.
			:::You are free to note that the use of flash suppressor might have solved the muzzle blast problem, although it appears one was not used. The thing I am taking issue with is making a claim which definitely conflicts what was shown in the manga. If someone said about the body in an [[An Idol's Locked Room Murder Case]], "Unless the coroner flipped it over, there appears to be an error because the body is shown stomach-down when the guy died instantly by throwing himself back-first on his knife." I would definitely object to that first part because Kogoro found the body like that long before the coroner got there. I don't have any problem with making the claim that the coroner might be wrong about exact instant death, or the body might have flopped over because of post-mortem muscle spasms. [[User:Chekhov MacGuffin\|'''<font color="#B22222">Chekhov</font> <font color="#2F4F4F">MacGuffin</font>''']] <sup>[[User talk:Chekhov MacGuffin\|'''<font color="#696969">talk</font>''']]</sup> 05:45, 27 April 2015 (CEST)

DCUniverseAficionado: /* Flaws section */

2015-04-26T23:49:28Z

Flaws section

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	: There is no need to apologize for anything because you did nothing wrong. It's just the edit/revert/talk page process in action, which is a great thing because that means the wiki is working as intended.		: There is no need to apologize for anything because you did nothing wrong. It's just the edit/revert/talk page process in action, which is a great thing because that means the wiki is working as intended.
	: Personally, I am okay with discussing this problem (and others like it) in an out-of-universe fashion because it means that we don't have to contort the truth to make it fit the narrative. Enforcing a global Watsonian perspective would inhibit the wiki's ability to address errors and omissions plainly. Gosho and his crew are hardly perfect when it comes to firearms and it's okay to acknowledge the flaws. For instance, when Akai sniped Gin, his rifle was right handed and it would have been very clumsy for him to operate the bolt left-handed and maintain a bead on Gin.		: Personally, I am okay with discussing this problem (and others like it) in an out-of-universe fashion because it means that we don't have to contort the truth to make it fit the narrative. Enforcing a global Watsonian perspective would inhibit the wiki's ability to address errors and omissions plainly. Gosho and his crew are hardly perfect when it comes to firearms and it's okay to acknowledge the flaws. For instance, when Akai sniped Gin, his rifle was right handed and it would have been very clumsy for him to operate the bolt left-handed and maintain a bead on Gin.
	: I do think it sounds like a good idea to suggest some additional ways (besides wadded blanks) that might have been able to solve the problem. "A flash suppressor attached the handgun's muzzle might have been able to redirect the majority of the burning hot gas. If one was used it would have been visible." I would draw the line at trying to suggest this is what actually happened in manga. [[User:Chekhov MacGuffin\|'''<font color="#B22222">Chekhov</font> <font color="#2F4F4F">MacGuffin</font>''']] <sup>[[User talk:Chekhov MacGuffin\|'''<font color="#696969">talk</font>''']]</sup> 03:42, 25 April 2015 (CEST)		: I do think it sounds like a good idea to suggest some additional ways (besides wadded blanks) that might have been able to solve the problem. "A flash suppressor attached the handgun's muzzle might have been able to redirect the majority of the burning hot gas. If one was used it would have been visible." I would draw the line at trying to suggest this is what actually happened in manga. [[User:Chekhov MacGuffin\|'''<font color="#B22222">Chekhov</font> <font color="#2F4F4F">MacGuffin</font>''']] <sup>[[User talk:Chekhov MacGuffin\|'''<font color="#696969">talk</font>''']]</sup> 03:42, 25 April 2015 (CEST)
			::Yeah, I can be a bit apologetic at times, so...
			::More to the point—so there's no way to hide a flash suppressor, huh? Considering the small window of time Conan/Shinichi and co. had, I don't think Agasa could've made a gun with hidden flash suppressor, and, even if he had, there would be the risk of Gin giving Kir a different kind of gun. By the way, what pistol did Kir shoot Shuichi with? A Beretta is my guess, but I could be off the mark.
			::I agree about avoiding the global Watsonian perspective, but, more often than not, I try to find explanations other than, "the people making this work of fiction screwed up," not because I'm trying to give them a free pass, but because I want to make sure there are acceptable alternative explanations to the most obvious out-of-universe explanation that comes up when things happen that throw viewers/readers for a loop. That's my view, anyway–I completely understand, accept, and support people taking issue with something unrealistic that breaks suspension of disbelief–I, myself, just don't have those kinds of issues with fiction.

Chekhov MacGuffin: Response

2015-04-25T01:42:01Z

Response

← Older revision		Revision as of 01:42, 25 April 2015
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	::::I think I see what you are referring to, but I meant specifics - not just basic information (head shot) that they got later on. As in, is there any indication as to whether or not they ever obtained autopsy records regarding the body that they then thought was Shuuichi, making one of the points in 'problems with this theory' irrelevant? If the only indication they had as to the state of the body was regarding what they expected (head shot, lung shot, burns, etc.), which is of course the least they would have worked to get, then it wouldn't matter much if the shot was to the temple rather than the forehead, and the later addition of a lung shot might not matter either. What I really mean is, where does it mention how in-depth their intelligence on the subject was? [[User:Ki-RBT\|Ki-RBT]] ([[User talk:Ki-RBT\|talk]]) 01:43, 4 November 2014 (CET)		::::I think I see what you are referring to, but I meant specifics - not just basic information (head shot) that they got later on. As in, is there any indication as to whether or not they ever obtained autopsy records regarding the body that they then thought was Shuuichi, making one of the points in 'problems with this theory' irrelevant? If the only indication they had as to the state of the body was regarding what they expected (head shot, lung shot, burns, etc.), which is of course the least they would have worked to get, then it wouldn't matter much if the shot was to the temple rather than the forehead, and the later addition of a lung shot might not matter either. What I really mean is, where does it mention how in-depth their intelligence on the subject was? [[User:Ki-RBT\|Ki-RBT]] ([[User talk:Ki-RBT\|talk]]) 01:43, 4 November 2014 (CET)

			== Flaws section ==
	Apologies for the flash suppressor edit. Still, if a flash suppressor alone wouldn't protect his face, would it and a [[wikipedia:Muzzle break\|Muzzle break]] do the trick? Probably not, and there likely would be no way to hide both, either. Still, while I agree that reality was ignored in favor of dramatic license, for the outside-universe reason, but, for an in-universe reason of why Akai's face is unscarred, it would likely fall along the lines of "gun with hidden muzzle break and hidden flash suppressor." [[User:DCUniverseAficionado\|DCUniverseAficionado]] ([[User talk:DCUniverseAficionado\|talk]]) 20:24, 24 April 2015 (CEST)		Apologies for the flash suppressor edit. Still, if a flash suppressor alone wouldn't protect his face, would it and a [[wikipedia:Muzzle break\|Muzzle break]] do the trick? Probably not, and there likely would be no way to hide both, either. Still, while I agree that reality was ignored in favor of dramatic license, for the outside-universe reason, but, for an in-universe reason of why Akai's face is unscarred, it would likely fall along the lines of "gun with hidden muzzle break and hidden flash suppressor." [[User:DCUniverseAficionado\|DCUniverseAficionado]] ([[User talk:DCUniverseAficionado\|talk]]) 20:24, 24 April 2015 (CEST)
			: There is no need to apologize for anything because you did nothing wrong. It's just the edit/revert/talk page process in action, which is a great thing because that means the wiki is working as intended.
			: Personally, I am okay with discussing this problem (and others like it) in an out-of-universe fashion because it means that we don't have to contort the truth to make it fit the narrative. Enforcing a global Watsonian perspective would inhibit the wiki's ability to address errors and omissions plainly. Gosho and his crew are hardly perfect when it comes to firearms and it's okay to acknowledge the flaws. For instance, when Akai sniped Gin, his rifle was right handed and it would have been very clumsy for him to operate the bolt left-handed and maintain a bead on Gin.
			: I do think it sounds like a good idea to suggest some additional ways (besides wadded blanks) that might have been able to solve the problem. "A flash suppressor attached the handgun's muzzle might have been able to redirect the majority of the burning hot gas. If one was used it would have been visible." I would draw the line at trying to suggest this is what actually happened in manga. [[User:Chekhov MacGuffin\|'''<font color="#B22222">Chekhov</font> <font color="#2F4F4F">MacGuffin</font>''']] <sup>[[User talk:Chekhov MacGuffin\|'''<font color="#696969">talk</font>''']]</sup> 03:42, 25 April 2015 (CEST)

DCUniverseAficionado at 18:33, 24 April 2015

2015-04-24T18:33:12Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 18:33, 24 April 2015
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	::::I think I see what you are referring to, but I meant specifics - not just basic information (head shot) that they got later on. As in, is there any indication as to whether or not they ever obtained autopsy records regarding the body that they then thought was Shuuichi, making one of the points in 'problems with this theory' irrelevant? If the only indication they had as to the state of the body was regarding what they expected (head shot, lung shot, burns, etc.), which is of course the least they would have worked to get, then it wouldn't matter much if the shot was to the temple rather than the forehead, and the later addition of a lung shot might not matter either. What I really mean is, where does it mention how in-depth their intelligence on the subject was? [[User:Ki-RBT\|Ki-RBT]] ([[User talk:Ki-RBT\|talk]]) 01:43, 4 November 2014 (CET)		::::I think I see what you are referring to, but I meant specifics - not just basic information (head shot) that they got later on. As in, is there any indication as to whether or not they ever obtained autopsy records regarding the body that they then thought was Shuuichi, making one of the points in 'problems with this theory' irrelevant? If the only indication they had as to the state of the body was regarding what they expected (head shot, lung shot, burns, etc.), which is of course the least they would have worked to get, then it wouldn't matter much if the shot was to the temple rather than the forehead, and the later addition of a lung shot might not matter either. What I really mean is, where does it mention how in-depth their intelligence on the subject was? [[User:Ki-RBT\|Ki-RBT]] ([[User talk:Ki-RBT\|talk]]) 01:43, 4 November 2014 (CET)

	Apologies for the flash suppressor edit. Still, if a flash suppressor alone wouldn't protect his face, would it and a [[wikipedia:Muzzle break\|Muzzle break]] do the trick? Probably not, and there likely would be no way to hide both, either. Still, while I agree that reality was ignored ~~over~~ dramatic license, for the outside-universe reason, but, for an in-universe reason of why Akai's face is unscarred, it would likely fall along the lines of "gun with hidden muzzle break and hidden flash suppressor." [[User:DCUniverseAficionado\|DCUniverseAficionado]] ([[User talk:DCUniverseAficionado\|talk]]) 20:24, 24 April 2015 (CEST)		Apologies for the flash suppressor edit. Still, if a flash suppressor alone wouldn't protect his face, would it and a [[wikipedia:Muzzle break\|Muzzle break]] do the trick? Probably not, and there likely would be no way to hide both, either. Still, while I agree that reality was ignored in favor of dramatic license, for the outside-universe reason, but, for an in-universe reason of why Akai's face is unscarred, it would likely fall along the lines of "gun with hidden muzzle break and hidden flash suppressor." [[User:DCUniverseAficionado\|DCUniverseAficionado]] ([[User talk:DCUniverseAficionado\|talk]]) 20:24, 24 April 2015 (CEST)

DCUniverseAficionado at 18:24, 24 April 2015

2015-04-24T18:24:09Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 18:24, 24 April 2015
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	::::I think I see what you are referring to, but I meant specifics - not just basic information (head shot) that they got later on. As in, is there any indication as to whether or not they ever obtained autopsy records regarding the body that they then thought was Shuuichi, making one of the points in 'problems with this theory' irrelevant? If the only indication they had as to the state of the body was regarding what they expected (head shot, lung shot, burns, etc.), which is of course the least they would have worked to get, then it wouldn't matter much if the shot was to the temple rather than the forehead, and the later addition of a lung shot might not matter either. What I really mean is, where does it mention how in-depth their intelligence on the subject was? [[User:Ki-RBT\|Ki-RBT]] ([[User talk:Ki-RBT\|talk]]) 01:43, 4 November 2014 (CET)		::::I think I see what you are referring to, but I meant specifics - not just basic information (head shot) that they got later on. As in, is there any indication as to whether or not they ever obtained autopsy records regarding the body that they then thought was Shuuichi, making one of the points in 'problems with this theory' irrelevant? If the only indication they had as to the state of the body was regarding what they expected (head shot, lung shot, burns, etc.), which is of course the least they would have worked to get, then it wouldn't matter much if the shot was to the temple rather than the forehead, and the later addition of a lung shot might not matter either. What I really mean is, where does it mention how in-depth their intelligence on the subject was? [[User:Ki-RBT\|Ki-RBT]] ([[User talk:Ki-RBT\|talk]]) 01:43, 4 November 2014 (CET)

	Apologies for the flash suppressor edit. Still, if a flash suppressor alone wouldn't protect his face, would it and a [[wikipedia:Muzzle break\|Muzzle break]] do the trick? Probably not, and there likely would be no way to hide both, either. Still, while I agree that reality was ignored over dramatic license, for the outside-universe reason, but, for an in-universe reason of why Akai's face is unscarred, it would likely fall along the lines of "gun with hidden muzzle break and hidden flash suppressor."		Apologies for the flash suppressor edit. Still, if a flash suppressor alone wouldn't protect his face, would it and a [[wikipedia:Muzzle break\|Muzzle break]] do the trick? Probably not, and there likely would be no way to hide both, either. Still, while I agree that reality was ignored over dramatic license, for the outside-universe reason, but, for an in-universe reason of why Akai's face is unscarred, it would likely fall along the lines of "gun with hidden muzzle break and hidden flash suppressor." [[User:DCUniverseAficionado\|DCUniverseAficionado]] ([[User talk:DCUniverseAficionado\|talk]]) 20:24, 24 April 2015 (CEST)

DCUniverseAficionado at 18:22, 24 April 2015

2015-04-24T18:22:35Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 18:22, 24 April 2015
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	::::I think I see what you are referring to, but I meant specifics - not just basic information (head shot) that they got later on. As in, is there any indication as to whether or not they ever obtained autopsy records regarding the body that they then thought was Shuuichi, making one of the points in 'problems with this theory' irrelevant? If the only indication they had as to the state of the body was regarding what they expected (head shot, lung shot, burns, etc.), which is of course the least they would have worked to get, then it wouldn't matter much if the shot was to the temple rather than the forehead, and the later addition of a lung shot might not matter either. What I really mean is, where does it mention how in-depth their intelligence on the subject was? [[User:Ki-RBT\|Ki-RBT]] ([[User talk:Ki-RBT\|talk]]) 01:43, 4 November 2014 (CET)		::::I think I see what you are referring to, but I meant specifics - not just basic information (head shot) that they got later on. As in, is there any indication as to whether or not they ever obtained autopsy records regarding the body that they then thought was Shuuichi, making one of the points in 'problems with this theory' irrelevant? If the only indication they had as to the state of the body was regarding what they expected (head shot, lung shot, burns, etc.), which is of course the least they would have worked to get, then it wouldn't matter much if the shot was to the temple rather than the forehead, and the later addition of a lung shot might not matter either. What I really mean is, where does it mention how in-depth their intelligence on the subject was? [[User:Ki-RBT\|Ki-RBT]] ([[User talk:Ki-RBT\|talk]]) 01:43, 4 November 2014 (CET)

			Apologies for the flash suppressor edit. Still, if a flash suppressor alone wouldn't protect his face, would it and a [[wikipedia:Muzzle break\|Muzzle break]] do the trick? Probably not, and there likely would be no way to hide both, either. Still, while I agree that reality was ignored over dramatic license, for the outside-universe reason, but, for an in-universe reason of why Akai's face is unscarred, it would likely fall along the lines of "gun with hidden muzzle break and hidden flash suppressor."

← Older revision		Revision as of 21:55, 27 April 2015
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	:::::Sounds right to me. I hope Gosho doesn't ever try to hide something from the reader like you suggested though. That would be cheating to hide what the other characters can see. [[User:Chekhov MacGuffin\|'''<font color="#B22222">Chekhov</font> <font color="#2F4F4F">MacGuffin</font>''']] <sup>[[User talk:Chekhov MacGuffin\|'''<font color="#696969">talk</font>''']]</sup> 16:44, 27 April 2015 (CEST)		:::::Sounds right to me. I hope Gosho doesn't ever try to hide something from the reader like you suggested though. That would be cheating to hide what the other characters can see. [[User:Chekhov MacGuffin\|'''<font color="#B22222">Chekhov</font> <font color="#2F4F4F">MacGuffin</font>''']] <sup>[[User talk:Chekhov MacGuffin\|'''<font color="#696969">talk</font>''']]</sup> 16:44, 27 April 2015 (CEST)
	::::::I meant hide it like the irregular borders on Jodie's photos, but now that I've seen what a pistol with a flash suppressor looks like and since I've looked at Files 608–609 again, it would have been obvious to everyone had there been a flash suppressor on the pistol—he would have had to "cheat" to hide it. The only way I can see this work is if the flash suppressor was built inside the pistol, rather than attached... but that's impossible, right? Sorry I keep asking about this, but I'd like to be sure that there's no way for a flash suppressor to be part of a gun as it's constructed. [[User:DCUniverseAficionado\|DCUniverseAficionado]] ([[User talk:DCUniverseAficionado\|talk]]) 18:40, 27 April 2015 (CEST)		::::::I meant hide it like the irregular borders on Jodie's photos, but now that I've seen what a pistol with a flash suppressor looks like and since I've looked at Files 608–609 again, it would have been obvious to everyone had there been a flash suppressor on the pistol—he would have had to "cheat" to hide it. The only way I can see this work is if the flash suppressor was built inside the pistol, rather than attached... but that's impossible, right? Sorry I keep asking about this, but I'd like to be sure that there's no way for a flash suppressor to be part of a gun as it's constructed. [[User:DCUniverseAficionado\|DCUniverseAficionado]] ([[User talk:DCUniverseAficionado\|talk]]) 18:40, 27 April 2015 (CEST)
			:::::::If it was inside the gun, the side vents would be covered which would make things worse IMO. Also, the gun looks like a perfectly ordinary handgun which means there isn't a lot to work with in the muzzle. Preparing a fake gun to match Gin's in time would be difficult as you mentioned. I just don't see the possibility of sneaking a flash suppressor onto or into the gun being realistic. [[User:Chekhov MacGuffin\|'''<font color="#B22222">Chekhov</font> <font color="#2F4F4F">MacGuffin</font>''']] <sup>[[User talk:Chekhov MacGuffin\|'''<font color="#696969">talk</font>''']]</sup> 23:55, 27 April 2015 (CEST)

← Older revision		Revision as of 16:40, 27 April 2015
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	::::"Flash suppressors must have a particular form in order to function properly." Ah... now I get it—thanks for clearing things up. Still, if Gosho wanted to use this as an explanation, he should've drawn things in such a way that the flash suppressor was hard to see, from the reader's perspective. Then again, Gin would have seen the flash suppressor when she leveled the gun at his head, right? And, if not, the absence of a flash would've been noticed, right? [[User:DCUniverseAficionado\|DCUniverseAficionado]] ([[User talk:DCUniverseAficionado\|talk]]) 16:12, 27 April 2015 (CEST)		::::"Flash suppressors must have a particular form in order to function properly." Ah... now I get it—thanks for clearing things up. Still, if Gosho wanted to use this as an explanation, he should've drawn things in such a way that the flash suppressor was hard to see, from the reader's perspective. Then again, Gin would have seen the flash suppressor when she leveled the gun at his head, right? And, if not, the absence of a flash would've been noticed, right? [[User:DCUniverseAficionado\|DCUniverseAficionado]] ([[User talk:DCUniverseAficionado\|talk]]) 16:12, 27 April 2015 (CEST)
	:::::Sounds right to me. I hope Gosho doesn't ever try to hide something from the reader like you suggested though. That would be cheating to hide what the other characters can see. [[User:Chekhov MacGuffin\|'''<font color="#B22222">Chekhov</font> <font color="#2F4F4F">MacGuffin</font>''']] <sup>[[User talk:Chekhov MacGuffin\|'''<font color="#696969">talk</font>''']]</sup> 16:44, 27 April 2015 (CEST)		:::::Sounds right to me. I hope Gosho doesn't ever try to hide something from the reader like you suggested though. That would be cheating to hide what the other characters can see. [[User:Chekhov MacGuffin\|'''<font color="#B22222">Chekhov</font> <font color="#2F4F4F">MacGuffin</font>''']] <sup>[[User talk:Chekhov MacGuffin\|'''<font color="#696969">talk</font>''']]</sup> 16:44, 27 April 2015 (CEST)
			::::::I meant hide it like the irregular borders on Jodie's photos, but now that I've seen what a pistol with a flash suppressor looks like and since I've looked at Files 608–609 again, it would have been obvious to everyone had there been a flash suppressor on the pistol—he would have had to "cheat" to hide it. The only way I can see this work is if the flash suppressor was built inside the pistol, rather than attached... but that's impossible, right? Sorry I keep asking about this, but I'd like to be sure that there's no way for a flash suppressor to be part of a gun as it's constructed. [[User:DCUniverseAficionado\|DCUniverseAficionado]] ([[User talk:DCUniverseAficionado\|talk]]) 18:40, 27 April 2015 (CEST)