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Rum  

26 members have voted

  1. 1. Rum's identity? (Please Revote!)

    • New character not yet introduced (male)
    • New character not yet introduced (female)
      0
    • A known character who has appeared in the manga who is not one of the names listed below. (explain in comments please)
    • Kansuke Yamato
      0
    • Taka'aki Morofushi (Koumei)
    • Hyoue Kuroda
    • Kiyonaga Matsumoto
      0
    • Shuukichi Haneda
      0
    • Chikara Katsumata (Shogi Player)
      0
    • Mary
      0
    • Sakurako Yonehara
    • Kohji Haneda
      0
    • Asaka (Bodyguard from the past)
    • Wakasa Rumi
    • Muga Iori / "Wada Shinichi" (Momiji's butler)
    • Kanenori Wakita
    • (reserved)
    • (reserved)
      0
    • (reserved)
      0
    • (reserved)
      0
  2. 2. Rum's objective?

    • Find Sherry (and kill her if necessary)
    • Hunt down the spies within the BO (and kill them if necessary)
    • Investigate/hunt Shinichi/Conan (and kill him if necessary)
    • Hunt down Akai/Subaru (and kill him if necessary)
    • Investigate/hunt Masumi (and kill her if necessary)
      0
    • Investigate/hunt Masumi's second brother (and kill him if necessary)
      0
    • Investigate/hunt Mary (and kill her if necessary)
    • Investigate/hunt/kill the person posting info about the Haneda Kohji case (and kill him/her if necessary)
    • Investigate/hunt/kill someone else (please explain)
      0
    • Infiltrate the Japanese police (or other law enforcement)
    • Rum is a double-agent and is trying to spy on or damage/destroy the BO
      0
    • Try to overthrow/kill the Boss and become the leader him/herself
    • Try to overthrow/kill another non-undercover BO member
      0
    • Other (please explain)
      0
    • (reserved)
    • (reserved)
      0
    • (reserved)
      0
    • (reserved)
      0
    • (reserved)
      0
    • (reserved)
      0


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The problem with these polls is that you can only pick one option. I think Asaka was Rum, but I also think Rum is another character we've seen in the course of the manga, and I still think that there's a good chance that Rumi is Rum as well. So I don't know which one to mark since I can't put all three.

 

On another note, I found it interesting that anime episode 864 adapted it not only to say that a woman was seen with the mirror, but to straight up say that Asaka was a woman. That adds to my suspicion that Wakasa Rumi=Asaka=Rum. I can't wait to see more adaptations of story cases to see what else they might give away that wasn't so clear in the manga.

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2 hours ago, AnimeOtakuDrew said:

On another note, I found it interesting that anime episode 864 adapted it not only to say that a woman was seen with the mirror, but to straight up say that Asaka was a woman. That adds to my suspicion that Wakasa Rumi=Asaka=Rum. I can't wait to see more adaptations of story cases to see what else they might give away that wasn't so clear in the manga.

That was pretty clear in the manga though... the difference being that they subbed it as a if it was something he found out, rather than something he believed(I guess I see what you mean).

 

Rumi being Rum is like Subaru being Bourbon.

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I kind of have to agree with MeitanteixX.

 

I remember people thinking that Okiya was Bourbon, but it turned out to be Akai, and there is so little concrete info on Rum that every suspect is a possible red herring right now, so I am not really going to say.

 

Could Rumi be Rum? Yes, she could, since there are some hints that she might be involved with the Koji case, but that would just make things as boring as The Mysterious Affair at Styles.

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I just spotted an anomaly(?) in chapter 899. Just when Shukichi gets to leave the Shogi finals to save Yumi, Chikara looks up at him. Which is pretty obvious but what is more baffling is the way he's depicted as looking up to Shukichi.

Katsumata-case.jpg

 

Gosho seems to give the readers an exclusive direct/face to face shot of Shukichi,while putting the supposed manga-reader in an oblique place just behind Chikara.

So from the reader's perspective Chikara should look a bit oblique(as mentioned in my diagram), but the obliquity wouldn't entail the user to see his eyeball as it would be focused on Shukichi.

The real issue here is that Chikara's face should exactly face Shukichi as he's looking directly at him.

From viewer's perspective Chikara looks more tilted towards his(Chikara's) left. His left eyeball should be more close to his nose bridge than it's in reality.

As if Chikara tilted his head a little to his left to get a fuller view of Shukichi, and the positioning of his left eyeball also is somewhat odd. It looks rather to be focused on the left than on Shukichi.

Generally our line of vision is exactly perpendicular to the imagined Vertical plane which just touches the back of our head when we're moving our head to focus on something. In the case of Chikara's left eyeball the line of vision is not locked on Shukichi.

 

Chikara can very well have a Prosthetic eye.

 

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On 7/9/2017 at 11:28 AM, Otaku3670 said:

I just spotted an anomaly(?) in chapter 899. Just when Shukichi gets to leave the Shogi finals to save Yumi, Chikara looks up at him. Which is pretty obvious but what is more baffling is the way he's depicted as looking up to Shukichi.

 

Gosho seems to give the readers an exclusive direct/face to face shot of Shukichi,while putting the supposed manga-reader in an oblique place just behind Chikara.

So from the reader's perspective Chikara should look a bit oblique(as mentioned in my diagram), but the obliquity wouldn't entail the user to see his eyeball as it would be focused on Shukichi.

The real issue here is that Chikara's face should exactly face Shukichi as he's looking directly at him.

From viewer's perspective Chikara looks more tilted towards his(Chikara's) left. His left eyeball should be more close to his nose bridge than it's in reality.

As if Chikara tilted his head a little to his left to get a fuller view of Shukichi, and the positioning of his left eyeball also is somewhat odd. It looks rather to be focused on the left than on Shukichi.

Generally our line of vision is exactly perpendicular to the imagined Vertical plane which just touches the back of our head when we're moving our head to focus on something. In the case of Chikara's left eyeball the line of vision is not locked on Shukichi.

 

Chikara can very well have a Prosthetic eye.

 

I spent a lot of time counting the directions characters' heads are facing for a personal project. This slight turning of the face is normal for Gosho and other western and eastern comics alike because it looks better and allows the reader to see more expressions instead of the back of people's heads. It doesn't mean anything unusual and if you look on other pages you will see the same oblique turning.

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4 hours ago, Chekhov MacGuffin said:

I spent a lot of time counting the directions characters' heads are facing for a personal project. This slight turning of the face is normal for Gosho and other western and eastern comics alike because it looks better and allows the reader to see more expressions instead of the back of people's heads. It doesn't mean anything unusual and if you look on other pages you will see the same oblique turning.

I know it, but can't ignore if this happens to one of the Rum suspects, for obvious reasons. Can be totally normal thing, but can also be a clue if Chikara is Rum.

So I just shared what I had spotted, might just be another over alalyzing of the stuff.

 

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On 10/9/2015 at 6:19 AM, Hanfois said:

I am very happy that we will get a narrower list of suspects with the release of the movie trailer xD

i have already been Hyped over the next movie before i knew that it will include RUM too

 

Even if he doesn't make much appearance in the movie or even just appears through a Text message

we still might get enough clue of him,like the text message could include a quotation we are familiar with

or even better,he might be introduced in the character list at the beginning of the movie (same as Akai in the intro of movie 18)

untill then i am still going for Taka'ai as the 1st suspect

 

Just reminding you guys that i called it 2 years ago that Koumei is getting involved with the Rum case, and i still Believe that Koumei IS Rum and he has something to do witht he murder of Scotch. I also belive that Koumei IS scotch's brother and Kuroda is actually Akai's father whose physical appearance changed in the last 17 years.

Finally i did mention before that Dai Morobushi has something to do with "Morofushi"  and i am sure that if Scotch is Rum's brother then Akai chose that name on purpose to infiltrate the BO. The 2 surnames (if Scotch is confirmed to be a Morofushi brother) were not chosen just for coincidence,there could be some reason behind the choices

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9 hours ago, Hanfois said:

Just reminding you guys that i called it 2 years ago that Koumei is getting involved with the Rum case

funny reminder.... because as far we are concerned, Koumei is not automatically getting involved with the "Rum case" just by being Scotch's brother.

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3 hours ago, MeiTanteixX said:

funny reminder.... because as far we are concerned, Koumei is not automatically getting involved with the "Rum case" just by being Scotch's brother.

 

He is the only Rum candidate that still hasn't met Haibara to this day in any case.

And yes he IS a Rum candidate as of his feminine appearance is one of Rum's claimed appearances.Plus Gosho or anyone in the manga has ever denied him being Rum,we don't have an official sentence that each BO member arc we are fixed to 3 suspects only,it could be more or less than 3

Him being Scotch's brother involves him automatically with the BO ,which means he is not one of those filler characters with a trivial side story like many others.

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On 9/9/2018 at 12:42 AM, Hanfois said:

 

He is the only Rum candidate that still hasn't met Haibara to this day in any case.

And yes he IS a Rum candidate as of his feminine appearance is one of Rum's claimed appearances.Plus Gosho or anyone in the manga has ever denied him being Rum,we don't have an official sentence that each BO member arc we are fixed to 3 suspects only,it could be more or less than 3

Him being Scotch's brother involves him automatically with the BO ,which means he is not one of those filler characters with a trivial side story like many others.

Wakita Kanenori, Katsumata Chikara, Iori Muga... he is not the only suspect.

 

Not sure I would classify him as effeminate. What exactly suggests that?

 

Not necessarily. Gosho could simply make him related to Hiromitsu for a nice side story, and that's that. Sure, you can say Koumei now has a tie to the BO through Scotch, but being involved with them is a completely different leap that Gosho hasn't even introduced or hinted at. In other words... we can't tell yet with the info that we have that he is 100% getting involved in the BO plot.

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On 9/11/2018 at 7:53 AM, MeiTanteixX said:

Wakita Kanenori, Katsumata Chikara, Iori Muga... he is not the only suspect.

 

Not sure I would classify him as effeminate. What exactly suggests that?

 

Not necessarily. Gosho could simply make him related to Hiromitsu for a nice side story, and that's that. Sure, you can say Koumei now has a tie to the BO through Scotch, but being involved with them is a completely different leap that Gosho hasn't even introduced or hinted at. In other words... we can't tell yet with the info that we have that he is 100% getting involved in the BO plot.

 

Okay he is officially Scotch's brother as confirmed in file 1021

Rei and Scotch were confirmed to have met each other in childhood.I also take it for serious when Gosho said that Rum has "Already" appeared before file 906  and before all those others were introduced (kuroda,iori muga,wakita ,rumi) Chikara is a possible candidate but i don't see anything suspicious about him till now and we don't have much focus on him,i.e. Takaaki has technically appeared in more cases and with more screentime than Chikara

See you when Takaaki gets confirmed to be Rum

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Rum..yeah we can kind of take out Kuroda being Rum because In one of the Manga Files Rum contacted Bourbon and Rei/Bourbon was nervous About what Rum texted him

but..later in the file or another file Bourbon was on the phone with Kuroda and was not nervous whatsoever my guess Is Kuroda is part of the NPA with Bourbon and Kuroda is his boss or something like That..Well that's my guess it kind of makes sense!

 

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Spoiler

last Chapter 1027-1031-She is Rum!

Hello!

I'm very sure that Wakasa Rumi is Rum,Now i will tell why.

First I think that Rum is normally a Male(A Old men).

He took the Apotoxin and than he was a Men in the 30's or 40's 

Then he became a Woman.This shows how easy someone can called a Old men,a strongly man and a Woman.

In the last Chapter it was Really important to look at  Wakita.He and Bourbon thought about something and Wakita said 9 tailed Fox!read about it.Its a Woman,who seduce someone into bad things or something like that.But more important is the Start of the Chapter.Conan and the others playing Cards.He holds the Heart 4 and the Joker Card!!! Joker means trickster its also a personality which is really crazy and its easy to jump into another person or play another role of personality.Gosho tries to make us insecure.

 

Now i have more about Wakita to tell!

-Look at his Smile!

-Look at his posture!

-Look at his Hobbys!

 

And yes everyone of his Childs has something inherited of him.

 

Masumis Smile(Btw they booth have something wrong with the Teeth:o)

Shukichis posture(The crossed arms)

Shuichis Hobbys(Criminal and to Cook)

 

Kanenori Wakita is Tsutomu Akai!He also finds out that Shuichi lives in Kudos Villa this is the Reason why he wants to deliever sushi there although no one called him.He and Hyoe Kuroda are related.They have the same phones and Wakita must know that Akai lives in the Villa from Kuroda,because he knowes it from Bourbon.Maybe Bourbon should not know that Wakita is tsutomu Akai and Kuroda wants Bourbon only to find more about special things.I have i idea who could be Kuroda but for now it should be okay.

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On 3/16/2019 at 3:48 AM, Secretgirl16 said:

Sorry I want everything surrounded by Spoiler :blush:I dont know how to delete these

Click "edit", select everything that you want to surround in spoilers, click on the eye symbol for "spoiler". And then "save changes".

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So, since "asaca rum" has been revealed to mean "karasuma", doesn't that mean Wakasa Rumi's obviously suspicious name becomes irrelevant? 

 

Koumei's very pointed comments about "time is money" comes across as red herring too. 

 

Anyone ever mentioned the possibility that Kuroda is both Akai Tsutomu and Rum? Someone who is originally trying to spy into the org, but ended up a turncoat and became loyal to the org instead. 

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On 3/23/2019 at 12:01 PM, Kitahata said:

So, since "asaca rum" has been revealed to mean "karasuma", doesn't that mean Wakasa Rumi's obviously suspicious name becomes irrelevant? 

 

Koumei's very pointed comments about "time is money" comes across as red herring too. 

 

Anyone ever mentioned the possibility that Kuroda is both Akai Tsutomu and Rum? Someone who is originally trying to spy into the org, but ended up a turncoat and became loyal to the org instead. 

i think karasuma renya is the boss? i read a post on the red thread page about some spoiler (i forgot what spoiler) that rum is among wakita, kuroda, and wakasa rumi. it has been made clear that karasuma is the boss. he is disappearing since many years ago and he is wealthy enough to fund black organization

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My Theory :

1. RUM Involved in the death of Amanda Hughes (Main Target) and Haneda Kohji. << RUM Involvement

2. Asaka (The Bodyguard) last seen is holding the Mascara Mirror brand that written "Put On Mascara", Asaka is Woman. << Who is Asaka

3. It seems Asaka or Haneda Kohji or Both of them is the one who left dying message, the evidence say that Haneda Kohji's palm is injured due holding scissors. << Fact of Dying Message

4. RUM Didn't know what's his mistake on that Mission as Black Organization member. So RUM try to upload this case to internet to figure it out too, maybe he got some clue, and it comes to Conan and Akai who got the same case just like 17 years ago. << RUM's secondary mission

5. Dying message is not appoint that Asaka is Rum, but it refer to Carasuma Group. << Yusaku Kudo theory

6. 3 Peoples appear after Kir text, A. Hyoue Kuroda, B. Wakasa Rumi, and the C. Wakita Kanenori. << Timeline Fact

7. Black Organization also have NOC lists that infiltrate security bureau or government. << Based on Movie 13 (Irish's Mission)

Possibility Based on Suspicion Link : Hyoue Kuroda 55%, Wakasa Rumi 60%, Wakita Kanenori 45%

If next chapter explain relationship clue why Wakasa Rumi regretting Haneda Kohji's death, the suspicion to Wakasa Rumi would be vanish.

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After watching anime 792, maybe there's some clue in case we missed.

Conan mention that liquior named rum mostly used to drink by "Pirates".

Big boss may give this name to someone who looked like "Pirates".

As we imagine, the name "Pirates" is related to someone who had one one because another one is blind. The blind eye covered by a patch "Pirate Eye".

I expect that Wakita Kanenori is RUM.

My suspicion increase from 45% to 70%.

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On 3/23/2019 at 12:01 AM, Kitahata said:

So, since "asaca rum" has been revealed to mean "karasuma", doesn't that mean Wakasa Rumi's obviously suspicious name becomes irrelevant? 

There's one thing that a lot of people don't seem to be acknowledging about this. When Yusaku pointed out that the "asaca rum" message could alternatively be read as "carasuma," he himself pointed out that it was just an idea he had and it might be wrong. Yet many of us fans are taking this as a definitive confirmation that Karasuma Renya is indeed head of the Black Organization, as well as the extended idea you propose here that the alternate solution to the dying message nullifies any suspicion based on Wakasa Rumi's name. I was guilty of falling into that assumption shortly after Yusaku's revelation as well, but having carefully analyzed things since then, I see that there are actually five possibilities.

 

  1. The initial interpretation of the dying message was correct and it was intended to indicate that Asaka was indeed Rum, having nothing to do wit Karasuma.
  2. Yusaku's interpretation of the message was correct and it was intended to indicate Karasuma Renya as the leader of the Black Organization, having nothing to do with either Asaka or Rum.
  3. The one who left the dying message intended it to contain multiple meanings to leave behind as much information as possible, meaning the intent was to convey BOTH the fact that Rum was Asaka AND the Karasuma Renya is leader of the Black Organization.
  4. Neither of the previously given interpretations are correct and the true meaning of the dying message is some other interpretation that Aoyama-sensei has yet to reveal to the readers.
  5. The message is intended to be layered as stated in #3, with one or both of the currently known interpretations being true AS WELL AS one or more currently unknown interpretations.

We won't get a definitive answer about this until Aoyama-sensei finally reveals the full flashback to us of the double murder and we're able to see the context and mindset under which the dying message was left. As frustrating as that is, I believe we'll see that within the next two years of the manga--possibly even within the next year. WE're in the information dump stage, with at least one major clue being revealed in every case; it is just impossible to maintain this for long without Conan finally being able to put the pieces together. We MUST be getting close to the reveal!

 

Another thing to consider is this: maybe we're looking at the interpretation of the dying message wrong! We're looking at it more or less as we would any other clue in any case Conan finds himself in the middle of. However, with two possible interpretations having been presented to us, maybe that isn't the direction Aoyama-sensei is meaning this to go. Maybe we should instead analyze this the way we look at SUSPECTS in the series! Particularly for major arcs (Vermouth, Bourbon, Rum, etc.), we are gradually introduced to three major suspects. We then get clues along the way, building up to the reveal of the truth. In this case, our first 'suspect' was "asaca rum." Then we were later introduced to our second 'suspect,' "carasuma." It's entirely possible--maybe even likely--that Aoyama-sensei will introduce a third 'suspect' to us, which would probably happen quite soon if that is the case.

 

Either way, it is not yet time to dismiss our suspicions of Wakasa just because an alternative interpretation of the dying message has been presented to us. I am still inclined to think she is indeed both Asaka AND Rum.

Spoiler

The reveal of the shogi piece in the newest chapter is intriguing, though I can't put my finger on exactly what it means yet.

Any thoughts?

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13 hours ago, AnimeOtakuDrew said:

There's one thing that a lot of people don't seem to be acknowledging about this. When Yusaku pointed out that the "asaca rum" message could alternatively be read as "carasuma," he himself pointed out that it was just an idea he had and it might be wrong. Yet many of us fans are taking this as a definitive confirmation that Karasuma Renya is indeed head of the Black Organization, as well as the extended idea you propose here that the alternate solution to the dying message nullifies any suspicion based on Wakasa Rumi's name. I was guilty of falling into that assumption shortly after Yusaku's revelation as well, but having carefully analyzed things since then, I see that there are actually five possibilities.

 

  1. The initial interpretation of the dying message was correct and it was intended to indicate that Asaka was indeed Rum, having nothing to do wit Karasuma.
  2. Yusaku's interpretation of the message was correct and it was intended to indicate Karasuma Renya as the leader of the Black Organization, having nothing to do with either Asaka or Rum.
  3. The one who left the dying message intended it to contain multiple meanings to leave behind as much information as possible, meaning the intent was to convey BOTH the fact that Rum was Asaka AND the Karasuma Renya is leader of the Black Organization.
  4. Neither of the previously given interpretations are correct and the true meaning of the dying message is some other interpretation that Aoyama-sensei has yet to reveal to the readers.
  5. The message is intended to be layered as stated in #3, with one or both of the currently known interpretations being true AS WELL AS one or more currently unknown interpretations.

We won't get a definitive answer about this until Aoyama-sensei finally reveals the full flashback to us of the double murder and we're able to see the context and mindset under which the dying message was left. As frustrating as that is, I believe we'll see that within the next two years of the manga--possibly even within the next year. WE're in the information dump stage, with at least one major clue being revealed in every case; it is just impossible to maintain this for long without Conan finally being able to put the pieces together. We MUST be getting close to the reveal!

 

Another thing to consider is this: maybe we're looking at the interpretation of the dying message wrong! We're looking at it more or less as we would any other clue in any case Conan finds himself in the middle of. However, with two possible interpretations having been presented to us, maybe that isn't the direction Aoyama-sensei is meaning this to go. Maybe we should instead analyze this the way we look at SUSPECTS in the series! Particularly for major arcs (Vermouth, Bourbon, Rum, etc.), we are gradually introduced to three major suspects. We then get clues along the way, building up to the reveal of the truth. In this case, our first 'suspect' was "asaca rum." Then we were later introduced to our second 'suspect,' "carasuma." It's entirely possible--maybe even likely--that Aoyama-sensei will introduce a third 'suspect' to us, which would probably happen quite soon if that is the case.

 

Either way, it is not yet time to dismiss our suspicions of Wakasa just because an alternative interpretation of the dying message has been presented to us. I am still inclined to think she is indeed both Asaka AND Rum.

  Reveal hidden contents

The reveal of the shogi piece in the newest chapter is intriguing, though I can't put my finger on exactly what it means yet.

Any thoughts?

 

Oh, yes, it's possible CARASUMA will turn out to be either one of the mirror's messages, or just a red herring (I'd say the mirror having more than one message, one of them being CARASUMA, is more likely than the message not being CARASUMA at all)... but not likely, I think. You do not simply bring up a character who hadn't, at the time File 1,008 came out, been even referenced to in over 700 files/nearly 17 years, and imply that character is the leader of the main antagonists, only to turn around and go, "Psych! Just a red herring!" Especially considering Goshō's health and how, consequently, the yearly file/case output, as well as the amount of information and development that happens within each case, has changed since this reveal in File 1,008.

 

Now, if Gosho was referencing more characters, besides Renya Karasuma, from the first couple years of DC (like Genshirō Kaneshiro from the Night Baron case (File 72–File 77/Episode 68–Episode 70)) and implying they also could be the BO Boss/Anokata, then I'd be more likely to believe that Renya Karasuma is but a suspect, not the only possible candidate. If someone like Kaneshiro is brought up in the future, then yes, Gosho would indeed be taking his suspects formula and applying it to the BO Boss, and the possibilities would open up. But unless that happens, I'll continue standing behind the strong probability that Karasuma is the boss. And even if Karasuma is the boss, there's still room for twists and turns, if we're going down that avenue. 

 

As for the odds of Rumi being Rum... if Goshō goes that route, he's not doing it for surprise/shock. No one would be taken aback at her being Rum. Her violence and instability really make her stand out from her fellow Rum suspects.

Spoiler

And we now have Rei/Bourbon asserting to himself that the one who has the shogi piece—Rumi—must have killed Kōji Haneda. You ask me what this (among other suspicious Rumi moments) means? It means to me, that Goshō is setting up subversion, here—the reveal that she isn't Rum, in spite of the violent instability and all the other suspicious moments.

 

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2 hours ago, DCUniverseAficionado said:

 

Oh, yes, it's possible CARASUMA will turn out to be either one of the mirror's messages, or just a red herring (I'd say the mirror having more than one message, one of them being CARASUMA, is more likely than the message not being CARASUMA at all)... but not likely, I think. You do not simply bring up a character who hadn't, at the time File 1,008 came out, been even referenced to in over 700 files/nearly 17 years, and imply that character is the leader of the main antagonists, only to turn around and go, "Psych! Just a red herring!" Especially considering Goshō's health and how, consequently, the yearly file/case output, as well as the amount of information and development that happens within each case, has changed since this reveal in File 1,008.

 

Now, if Gosho was referencing more characters, besides Renya Karasuma, from the first couple years of DC (like Genshirō Kaneshiro from the Night Baron case (File 72–File 77/Episode 68–Episode 70)) and implying they also could be the BO Boss/Anokata, then I'd be more likely to believe that Renya Karasuma is but a suspect, not the only possible candidate. If someone like Kaneshiro is brought up in the future, then yes, Gosho would indeed be taking his suspects formula and applying it to the BO Boss, and the possibilities would open up. But unless that happens, I'll continue standing behind the strong probability that Karasuma is the boss. And even if Karasuma is the boss, there's still room for twists and turns, if we're going down that avenue. 

 

As for the odds of Rumi being Rum... if Goshō goes that route, he's not doing it for surprise/shock. No one would be taken aback at her being Rum. Her violence and instability really make her stand out from her fellow Rum suspects.

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And we now have Rei/Bourbon asserting to himself that the one who has the shogi piece—Rumi—must have killed Kōji Haneda. You ask me what this (among other suspicious Rumi moments) means? It means to me, that Goshō is setting up subversion, here—the reveal that she isn't Rum, in spite of the violent instability and all the other suspicious moments.

 

I wasn't suggesting that Karasuma would be just one of three suspects for the boss of the Organization (though that would fit with Aoyama-sensei's usual pattern for such things. I was suggesting that maybe we should look at the dying message the same way we look at one of the "three suspect" situations, with the two currently known interpretations and one more that is forthcoming. Although, I would like to point out that it is possible for Karasuma Renya to be both correct AND wrong. Remember that this dying message was left 17 years ago. A lot can happen in 17 years, especially in the criminal underworld. It's entirely possible that Karasuma WAS boss at the time of that message, but has since died (illness, old age, killed by enemy, killed by ambitious underling wanting to replace him). At the same time, even if "carasuma" is the intended reading of the dying message, maybe it doesn't mean that Karasuma is the LEADER of the organization. He could have been the original founder without actively leading it himself ("Karasuma started it"). It could be that he is a benefactor or financial supporter of the Organization ("Follow Karasuma's money to find them"). There are countless ways he could be involved with the organization without being Anokata. Maybe Karasuma is Rum (I don't really believe that, but it's a possibility). The thing is that, with the 'asaca rum' message, what it conveyed was very clear, but when the message instead becomes nothing but one name, 'carasuma,' it also becomes more vague. Many people take it for granted that this mean that Karasuma is the boss of the Organization, just as they take it for granted that this guess of Yusaku's is the definitive answer, but we have nothing to confirm that. It is LIKELY, but it is not definite. Somehow, I have a feeling that it will end up that Karasuma was founder, and probably leader in the past, but someone else is Anokata.

 

Regarding Rumi as Rum, I'm hung up on that mostly because neither of the other two candidates feels right for it.

Spoiler

I agree that the assertion that "only the killer could have that shogi piece" makes the possibility less likely, even in my own head, but somehow I can't let the Rumi=Rum idea go.

The only other thing I can imagine is that Rumi is Asaka, but NOT Rum. In that case, my guess would be that, after disappearing for a time and establishing a new identity for herself to avoid capture since she was the prime suspect, she started working from the shadows to solve the case herself (possibly to clear her own name, possibly out of feelings of devotion or obligation to her old boss, possibly because she had feelings for Haneda Kohji, or possibly some combination of those). The trouble with that idea in my mind is that her ruthlessness and her cold efficiency don't feel right for a simple bodyguard. It feels more like the kind of thing one would expect from, say, the number 2 of a major criminal syndicate. But I wouldn't put it past Aoyama-sensei to subvert expectations by breaking with his usual tropes just once and making it so the obvious suspect really is the right one. That really would be an amazing way to subvert expectations! We're all here over-analyzing things six ways to Sunday while the real answer was right there all along. I just don't know anything for sure, and won't until we get the reveal. I really hope that will be soon.

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4 hours ago, AnimeOtakuDrew said:

I wasn't suggesting that Karasuma would be just one of three suspects for the boss of the Organization (though that would fit with Aoyama-sensei's usual pattern for such things. I was suggesting that maybe we should look at the dying message the same way we look at one of the "three suspect" situations, with the two currently known interpretations and one more that is forthcoming. Although, I would like to point out that it is possible for Karasuma Renya to be both correct AND wrong. Remember that this dying message was left 17 years ago. A lot can happen in 17 years, especially in the criminal underworld. It's entirely possible that Karasuma WAS boss at the time of that message, but has since died (illness, old age, killed by enemy, killed by ambitious underling wanting to replace him). At the same time, even if "carasuma" is the intended reading of the dying message, maybe it doesn't mean that Karasuma is the LEADER of the organization. He could have been the original founder without actively leading it himself ("Karasuma started it"). It could be that he is a benefactor or financial supporter of the Organization ("Follow Karasuma's money to find them"). There are countless ways he could be involved with the organization without being Anokata. Maybe Karasuma is Rum (I don't really believe that, but it's a possibility). The thing is that, with the 'asaca rum' message, what it conveyed was very clear, but when the message instead becomes nothing but one name, 'carasuma,' it also becomes more vague. Many people take it for granted that this mean that Karasuma is the boss of the Organization, just as they take it for granted that this guess of Yusaku's is the definitive answer, but we have nothing to confirm that. It is LIKELY, but it is not definite. Somehow, I have a feeling that it will end up that Karasuma was founder, and probably leader in the past, but someone else is Anokata.

 

Ah, gotcha. That would be an interesting switch-up—rather than suspects, he'd be using messages.

 

Certainly. I think that's a more likely outcome than CARASUMA being only wrong. 

 

Yeah, you're right—it's not "definite," but, rather, simply "likely." And until we get new info, it's going to stay that way.

 

That's my guess, as well. Karasuma relates to crows, yet there's this talk about silver bullets, which harm/kill werewolves.

 

4 hours ago, AnimeOtakuDrew said:

Regarding Rumi as Rum, I'm hung up on that mostly because neither of the other two candidates feels right for it.

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I agree that the assertion that "only the killer could have that shogi piece" makes the possibility less likely, even in my own head, but somehow I can't let the Rumi=Rum idea go.

The only other thing I can imagine is that Rumi is Asaka, but NOT Rum. In that case, my guess would be that, after disappearing for a time and establishing a new identity for herself to avoid capture since she was the prime suspect, she started working from the shadows to solve the case herself (possibly to clear her own name, possibly out of feelings of devotion or obligation to her old boss, possibly because she had feelings for Haneda Kohji, or possibly some combination of those). The trouble with that idea in my mind is that her ruthlessness and her cold efficiency don't feel right for a simple bodyguard. It feels more like the kind of thing one would expect from, say, the number 2 of a major criminal syndicate. But I wouldn't put it past Aoyama-sensei to subvert expectations by breaking with his usual tropes just once and making it so the obvious suspect really is the right one. That really would be an amazing way to subvert expectations! We're all here over-analyzing things six ways to Sunday while the real answer was right there all along. I just don't know anything for sure, and won't until we get the reveal. I really hope that will be soon.

 

Unless Gosho made a mistake in drawing Rumi's hand in File 980 (that then went uncorrected even with the volume release, which Goshō uses to revise any mistakes, making him missing it even more unlikely), then I don't think she's Asaka. Asaka's right hand doesn't match Rumi's—their index/ring finger proportions are different. 

 

Exactly. And that's why I don't think she's Rum. 

 

Kanenori is also too obvious, in my book—he has far too many similarities to Rei/Bourbon (who turned out to be it only one arc ago). If either he or Rumi turn out to be Rum, then Goshō isn't focusing on the shock of a big reveal, but, rather, on what comes next (i.e., what Team Shinichi/Conan will do in light of the revelation, and how they and Rum will face off).

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1 hour ago, DCUniverseAficionado said:

 

That's my guess, as well. Karasuma relates to crows, yet there's this talk about silver bullets, which harm/kill werewolves.

That's true. Maybe we should keep our eyes peeled for someone with some variation of one of the Japanese words for wolf in their name.

Quote

 

 

Kanenori is also too obvious, in my book—he has far too many similarities to Rei/Bourbon (who turned out to be it only one arc ago). If either he or Rumi turn out to be Rum, then Goshō isn't focusing on the shock of a big reveal, but, rather, on what comes next (i.e., what Team Shinichi/Conan will do in light of the revelation, and how they and Rum will face off).

Neither Kanenori nor Kuroda feel right to me, however in my mind the one that seems "too obvious" and has "too many similarities to Rei/Bourbon" is Kuroda. He has some mysterious grudge against another character (Rei -> Akai, Kuroda -> Rumi), he's obviously smart and perceptive, recognizing Conan for what he is (and possibly even WHO he is), then there's the whole police thing. And on top of that, having "black" (kuro) right there in his name makes him feel like an obvious red herring when looking for the #2 of the Black Organization. As for Wakita, I admit something feels off about him, but considering that meeting him was really just chance (nobody could have predicted that Kogoro, Ran, and Conan would have gone to that restaurant that they had never visited before on that particular night, or any night for that matter, so if Rum was trying to observe them, why waste time working in a place they've never been known to go?), it seems unlikely that the number two of the Organization would bother with something like that. He's clearly more than the simple wannabe he initially seemed to be, but he still doesn't feel right for Rum. I am curious what parallels you're seeing between Wakita and Amuro though.

 

Anyways, the fact that neither of them seems right is why I still tend to think Rumi is Rum. Either way, it feels like Aoyama-sensei is building up for a reveal fairly soon, so hopefully we won't have to wait too much longer.

 

But I would be fine if he trades shock value in favor of good storytelling and setup for subsequent events.

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11 hours ago, AnimeOtakuDrew said:

Many people take it for granted that this mean that Karasuma is the boss of the Organization, just as they take it for granted that this guess of Yusaku's is the definitive answer, but we have nothing to confirm that. It is LIKELY, but it is not definite.

 

7 hours ago, DCUniverseAficionado said:

Yeah, you're right—it's not "definite," but, rather, simply "likely." And until we get new info, it's going to stay that way.

 

Just so you guys know, Gosho had confirmed in the Boss reveal interview, that came out with File 1008, that the anagram hint hits the mark with CARASUMA:

Spoiler
Quote

A lot of fans said “It’s ##” since they saw the anagram hint (Volume 90, File 2) and others asked me “Is it ##?” in the New Year’s Postcards. I tried asking the editor in charge “Can I answer telling them they met the mark?” but they stopped me saying “No, that’s a bit [too revealing]…” (laughs)

(https://aminoapps.com/c/detective-conan-meitantei-conan/page/blog/interview-with-aoyama-gosho-about-the-boss-ss-double-issue-3-4/qWY2_waSRunBgMk0E0GpWvpzl2o0ekmPzV)

 

So if there are more twists coming, it's not by the alteration of the mirror message, but by the addition of other elements as a part of the message.

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