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Chekhov MacGuffin

Suspicious characters! Discussion about Hyoue Kuroda, Wakasa Rumi, and others.

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20 hours ago, Shinan-Kudogawa said:

Hey all, my latest theory regarding the whole Rum arc. Is that most likely Hyoue & Rumi are not Rum, I cannot say I have conclusive evidence, however the mere fact that they met during the camping incident, and Rumi's confrontation with the culprit, made me feel uneasy about how Kuroda reacted. If one was Rum, the other knew, if the other person did not know, it is most likely that Rum (or them) was not in the Haneda's scene, because their level of intelligence  (that may surpass Conan's) would lead them to figure the identity of Rum at the crime scene. Rumi (If she is Rum), would know Kuroda's purpose is to spy on her, and therefore would take actions to escape any chance that would lead to her identity. Kuroda (if he is Rum) would not confront Rumi, who is related to Haneda's mystery, without jeopradizing her suspisiousness towards him. If Kurodoa is Rum he would rather avoid Rumi, who might deduce who he is. If both did not know the other, I doubt Rumi would show off her skills in front of Kuroda (to her he might be Rum). Kuroda would not confront Rumi (who to him might be Rum), on the ground that he is watching over, and keeping her in a school where young lives at stake. On this basis, Rum is neither for most chances, unless proven otherwise. 

 

Kanenori, is a great candidate. But for a second in hand to command a large syndicate as big as BO, and the desire to remain unknown, would suggest he would rather attract less attention to himself, even if he tries to hide in plain sight. And his wholesome intention to become a disciple of a famous detective (Kogoro), would inspire others to look into him, such as Conan, and his quirky look, would raise questions, specially if Rum, who most likely knows about the descriptions people say about him, would mind fitting the image or a characteristic in a way or another in public. Rum would most likely, appear in the three different ways he is described, only inside the BO, while in public he would/should change his appearance to avoid any traces of him. If he have a damaged eye, he'd rather hide it or damage both eyes, if he seems feminine, he'd rather appear ambiguous looking, the same goes for a strong man.

 

Rum, most likely, has not appeared in whole appearance to the people who described him. The BO agents, described his characteristics, based on his approach, which would raise the question of the eye problem. If all agreed, that Rum have an eye that is prosthetic or damaged, it must mean that they saw him. Yet, it might be a way of Rum to throw off descriptions of him by giving different traits, with one similar characteristic, so when he is investigated, it would mislead the investigators in something that did not exist. Again, the descriptions, have transferred to Haibara who relayed them to Conan, (Who btw, didn't even bother telling Conan Anokata's phone number, even though she was not surprised to know he figured it out), in accordance with her intentions to mislead Conan  away from the BO so he would not be a matter of concern. Rum's awareness, like Gin about Sherry's escape from the BO, and that she must have had help, before her assumed death, would mean she told someone info on the BO, and Rum's different descriptions would've made their way into a stranger.

 

Iori Muga, to me personally, is most suspicious. Like said above by MeiTanteixXhis concern over time, would relate logicaly to Rum. He has no worries about people finding out his time calculations, and he should not. Since only the people he told that time is precious, should be matter of concern to him, like Amuro, however he considers Amuro a top ranking BO agent. And following the theory of MeiTanteixXabout G & UMA, which I find to be very possible. I would not be surprised if Muga turns out to be Rum,.

 

Another thing to consider, that Kuroda is not Rum, is the fact that he is Rei's superior. While he may still be a suspect, he would know about the agents awaiting at Kudo's residence during the Scarlet Arc. Thus, he would question the whole Akai's conversation with Rei over the phone, and the PSB that chased him, would lead to the BO's figuring out his whole fake death incident, if he is Rum.

 

Kanenori, if Rum, would be a compromise of concealment, to be known to Kogoro, Amuro and others, as a disciple to Kogoro, with the looks he has, and the possible chance some would know of his descriptions following Haibara's escape from BO, even before her assumed death.

 

Rumi, while as mysterious as she is, would not throw her mysterious character to be a matter of study and observation to others, if she is Rum, not to Kuroda who is in police, nor to Conan, whose skills of deduction, she know of. I cannot imagine a scenario where the 2nd in command, would not mind be around someone who can investigate him, unless he wants to.

 

Rum, is in rush. As evident by his message to Amuro "Time is Money", mostly the general concept is that Rum's current objective is to find out any spies within the BO,  while staying hidden. He/She, is currently active, while maintaining the order of BO. means he/she must balance between the two. As to why he is in hurry, it may be due to; 1. following a lead to find something out before it becomes apparent or escape. 2. To rush others to fall victims of time and therefore revealing their true allegiance, 3. to actually win something over in the least time possible.

 

Since time is of the essence to Rum, I've been wondering if it has anything to do with Anokata himself. Since Anokata(Karasuma), is related to the whole time concept, raising the dead, over half a century of existence. I wonder if something is up that may actually be the reason why Rum is in a rush. Which would lead back to the Muga's obssession with time and seconds, and his attempt to calculate time to the second for fullest time employment. ..

 

Honestly, the twist that the butler of a romance subplot character is Rum actually looks pretty valid to me. 

 

The only issue is that, in Super Digest Book Black Plus, Gosho said that Rum was either Hyōe, Rumi or Kanenori—and only one of those three—his answer to that specific question didn't leave room for him to give an evasive answer and leave open the possibility of a fourth suspect. If it turns out there is a fourth suspect, and that suspect is Rum, then Gosho didn't just mislead, evade, or misdirect with this answer—he straight-up lied. And I don't recall Gosho straight-up lying when it comes to questions regarding the unrevealed big mysteries of the series. I don't recall him ever declaring, be it in Let's Talk Days or SDBs or interviews—before the reveals—that Vermouth wasn't disguised as Dr. Ariade, or that Hidemi Hondō and Rena Mizunashi weren't the same person, or that Scar Akai was Bourbon, or that Bourbon was Tōru Amuro. So I don't think he'd lie about Rum only being either Hyōe, Rumi or Kanenori.

 

In spite of this, I can't deny the possibility that Kanenori is actually Tsutomu Akai—if there was evidence proving he couldn't be Papa Akai, though, then I'd easily name him as my top suspect, even above Muga.

 

For me, the possibility that Kanenori = Papa Akai and Gosho's answer to that SDB Black+ question are my biggest points of contention—if it turns out that there are only 3 Rum suspects, and Kanenori turns out to be Tsutomu, then Rum must be Hyōe or Rumi (I don't honestly think that Rum is Tsutomu—Gosho subverting Shūichi's Gundam-inspired backstory and make his dad the second biggest of the bads, instead of really dead and/or a heroic figure, is quite a longshot).

 

If it ends up that only Hyōe or Rumi can be Rum, then one of them has been playing the long game and biding time, in spite of knowing info that could be devastating to Team Conan if they simply acted on it—Rum waiting to spring a trap on Team Conan and the NOCs despite knowing such important info to his goal seems to go against his impatience.

 

From here, we have to consider the Vermouth = Rumi possibility. If that's true, and Tsutomu is Kanenori (and not Rum), then Hyōe must be Rum (assuming there is no fourth suspect, of course). I want to say that Hyōe's knowledge precludes him from the suspect list completely, but I just don't know if he's biding his time or not.

 

So, at this time, my ranking of the suspects, in terms of how likely it is that they'll turn out to be Rum, goes like this:

Most likely: Kanenori and/or Muga

Second-most likely: Rumi

Least likely: Hyōe

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5 hours ago, DCUniverseAficionado said:

 

Honestly, the twist that the butler of a romance subplot character is Rum actually looks pretty valid to me. 

 

The only issue is that, in Super Digest Book Black Plus, Gosho said that Rum was either Hyōe, Rumi or Kanenori—and only one of those three—his answer to that specific question didn't leave room for him to give an evasive answer and leave open the possibility of a fourth suspect. If it turns out there is a fourth suspect, and that suspect is Rum, then Gosho didn't just mislead, evade, or misdirect with this answer—he straight-up lied. And I don't recall Gosho straight-up lying when it comes to questions regarding the unrevealed big mysteries of the series. I don't recall him ever declaring, be it in Let's Talk Days or SDBs or interviews—before the reveals—that Vermouth wasn't disguised as Dr. Ariade, or that Hidemi Hondō and Rena Mizunashi weren't the same person, or that Scar Akai was Bourbon, or that Bourbon was Tōru Amuro. So I don't think he'd lie about Rum only being either Hyōe, Rumi or Kanenori.

 

In spite of this, I can't deny the possibility that Kanenori is actually Tsutomu Akai—if there was evidence proving he couldn't be Papa Akai, though, then I'd easily name him as my top suspect, even above Muga.

 

For me, the possibility that Kanenori = Papa Akai and Gosho's answer to that SDB Black+ question are my biggest points of contention—if it turns out that there are only 3 Rum suspects, and Kanenori turns out to be Tsutomu, then Rum must be Hyōe or Rumi (I don't honestly think that Rum is Tsutomu—Gosho subverting Shūichi's Gundam-inspired backstory and make his dad the second biggest of the bads, instead of really dead and/or a heroic figure, is quite a longshot).

 

If it ends up that only Hyōe or Rumi can be Rum, then one of them has been playing the long game and biding time, in spite of knowing info that could be devastating to Team Conan if they simply acted on it—Rum waiting to spring a trap on Team Conan and the NOCs despite knowing such important info to his goal seems to go against his impatience.

 

From here, we have to consider the Vermouth = Rumi possibility. If that's true, and Tsutomu is Kanenori (and not Rum), then Hyōe must be Rum (assuming there is no fourth suspect, of course). I want to say that Hyōe's knowledge precludes him from the suspect list completely, but I just don't know if he's biding his time or not.

 

So, at this time, my ranking of the suspects, in terms of how likely it is that they'll turn out to be Rum, goes like this:

Most likely: Kanenori and/or Muga

Second-most likely: Rumi

Least likely: Hyōe

 

I totally forgot  about the SDB, that according to Gosho Rum is one of the three. I know I am suiting theories, however, the theory that one of the three is another 'third' face of Rum is plausible, like Amuro and Kir, Rum plays the role of three people, his usual Rum, the Muga (though we are stretching the idea), and another third face.  If Rum, inside the BO, is a 'face', Rum being a butler Muga is another 'face', and a third possibilty is another 'Face', it could match the three theories of 3 personnas. If the butler is the feminine trait, and the Rum' is the old trait, the strong trait is the one left, which could be attributed to any of the three suspects, Hyouei, Rumi and Wakita. Going along with the answer Gosho made about one of the three is Rum. while also Muga and another personna are Rum all together...

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7 hours ago, DCUniverseAficionado said:

The only issue is that, in Super Digest Book Black Plus, Gosho said that Rum was either Hyōe, Rumi or Kanenori—and only one of those three—his answer to that specific question didn't leave room for him to give an evasive answer and leave open the possibility of a fourth suspect. If it turns out there is a fourth suspect, and that suspect is Rum, then Gosho didn't just mislead, evade, or misdirect with this answer—he straight-up lied. And I don't recall Gosho straight-up lying when it comes to questions regarding the unrevealed big mysteries of the series. I don't recall him ever declaring, be it in Let's Talk Days or SDBs or interviews—before the reveals—that Vermouth wasn't disguised as Dr. Ariade, or that Hidemi Hondō and Rena Mizunashi weren't the same person, or that Scar Akai was Bourbon, or that Bourbon was Tōru Amuro. So I don't think he'd lie about Rum only being either Hyōe, Rumi or Kanenori.

I actually have a theory which fits with his seemingly confirming reply to SDB BLACK+ Q92 “Is Rum certainly amongst the trio Kuroda, Wakasa & Wakita?”.

I don’t actually think it’s as straightforward as he made it seem.

 

I think that his reply stems from the fact that...

"Wakita Kanenori = Highball" Theory

Spoiler

Wakita Kanenori is the former “Rum” in the BO, and his current codename is actually the same as the drink that was referenced in his introduction, “Highball” (File 975).

Screenshot_20190611-114905_Chrome.jpg

 

Highball is a cocktail drink that is a mix of a liquor and non-alchoholic drink, and a common one among them is “Rum + Coke”.

Screenshot_20190611-113314_Chrome.jpg

 

These two drinks were also referenced in his intro (as “pirate’s spirit” & “Cola”).

Screenshot_20190611-114741_Chrome.jpg

Screenshot_20190611-114831_Chrome.jpg

 

I think that after passing on the second-in-command title, he was given this cocktail codename as a symbol of that he is not the same Rum anymore (the same concentration of Rum in the drink basically).

 

In other words, from my perspective, Gosho is pulling another misleading comment like he did with Animal Crossing for File 906 (where "Rum" he is thinking of is not the same as the one you would originally think), where he had said “Rum has actually already appeared (laughs)” (which was actually referring to Lum).

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9 hours ago, Shinan-Kudogawa said:

I totally forgot  about the SDB, that according to Gosho Rum is one of the three. I know I am suiting theories, however, the theory that one of the three is another 'third' face of Rum is plausible, like Amuro and Kir, Rum plays the role of three people, his usual Rum, the Muga (though we are stretching the idea), and another third face.  If Rum, inside the BO, is a 'face', Rum being a butler Muga is another 'face', and a third possibilty is another 'Face', it could match the three theories of 3 personnas. If the butler is the feminine trait, and the Rum' is the old trait, the strong trait is the one left, which could be attributed to any of the three suspects, Hyouei, Rumi and Wakita. Going along with the answer Gosho made about one of the three is Rum. while also Muga and another personna are Rum all together...

 

So you're claiming Muga and one of those three (Hyōe, Rumi or Kanenori) are actually the same person? 

 

9 hours ago, MeiTanteixX said:

I actually have a theory which fits with his seemingly confirming reply to SDB BLACK+ Q92 “Is Rum certainly amongst the trio Kuroda, Wakasa & Wakita?”.

I don’t actually think it’s as straightforward as he made it seem.

 

I think that his reply stems from the fact that...

"Wakita Kanenori = Highball" Theory

  Reveal hidden contents

Wakita Kanenori is the former “Rum” in the BO, and his current codename is actually the same as the drink that was referenced in his introduction, “Highball” (File 975).

Screenshot_20190611-114905_Chrome.jpg

 

Highball is a cocktail drink that is a mix of a liquor and non-alchoholic drink, and a common one among them is “Rum + Coke”.

Screenshot_20190611-113314_Chrome.jpg

 

These two drinks were also referenced in his intro (as “pirate’s spirit” & “Cola”).

Screenshot_20190611-114741_Chrome.jpg

Screenshot_20190611-114831_Chrome.jpg

 

I think that after passing on the second-in-command title, he was given this cocktail codename as a symbol of that he is not the same Rum anymore (the same concentration of Rum in the drink basically).

 

In other words, from my perspective, Gosho is pulling another misleading comment like he did with Animal Crossing for File 906 (where "Rum" he is thinking of is not the same as the one you would originally think), where he had said “Rum has actually already appeared (laughs)” (which was actually referring to Lum).

 

Spoiler

Ah, that's right... there was a question also asked in SDB Black Plus about if codenames can be inherited... okay, by those terms, yes—he didn't specify whether the Rum he was referring to was currently Rum or formerly Rum, so I guess that's how he could be shifty, there.

 

So Kanenori's just the bitter former second in command, and Muga is the man who passed him up?

 

Then why was Muga at Juke Hotel 17 years ago instead of Kanenori? Had he already been forced to step aside for Muga, by then? In other words, has Kanenori had the codename "Highball" since 17 years ago, or even before that?

 

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1 hour ago, DCUniverseAficionado said:

 

  Hide contents

Ah, that's right... there was a question also asked in SDB Black Plus about if codenames can be inherited... okay, by those terms, yes—he didn't specify whether the Rum he was referring to was currently Rum or formerly Rum, so I guess that's how he could be shifty, there.

 

Spoiler

Yes, and not just in that sense, but also that "Highball", his potential current codename, could by technicality also be considered as Rum (only that it has coke as ingredient as well). Basically, "Rum" is indeed amongst the trio, but not the second-in-command Rum. 

Quote
Spoiler

So Kanenori's just the bitter former second in command, and Muga is the man who passed him up?

 

Spoiler

Not necessarily a bitter one, but at the very least an underestimating (of Rum) one.

 

Perhaps he preferred that Gin took the mantel instead, if Wakita's current mission/actions that aligns with Gin's interest (and if the "demon in the dark" idiom, which Gin & Wakita's potential drugging target quoted, originates from Wakita) is any indication of a mentor-student relationship (since Wakita design is inspired by a mentor character).

Quote
Spoiler

Then why was Muga at Juke Hotel 17 years ago instead of Kanenori? Had he already been forced to step aside for Muga, by then? In other words, has Kanenori had the codename "Highball" since 17 years ago, or even before that?

 

Spoiler

If the dying message is indeed implicating Muga as according to my theory, then that would be the natural assumption.

 

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14 hours ago, DCUniverseAficionado said:

 

So you're claiming Muga and one of those three (Hyōe, Rumi or Kanenori) are actually the same person? 

 

 

  Hide contents

Ah, that's right... there was a question also asked in SDB Black Plus about if codenames can be inherited... okay, by those terms, yes—he didn't specify whether the Rum he was referring to was currently Rum or formerly Rum, so I guess that's how he could be shifty, there.

 

So Kanenori's just the bitter former second in command, and Muga is the man who passed him up?

 

Then why was Muga at Juke Hotel 17 years ago instead of Kanenori? Had he already been forced to step aside for Muga, by then? In other words, has Kanenori had the codename "Highball" since 17 years ago, or even before that?

 

The possibility exists, the fact is, according to Gosho. Rum is within the three (Kuroda, Kanenori & Rumi), so what remains to conclude, is whether the Rum he is speaking of is a 'face' of a three ways Rum, or like you & MeiTanteixX discuss, that Rum is a former Rum, and a new Rum is in current position.

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15 hours ago, MeiTanteixX said:
Spoiler

Yes, and not just in that sense, but also that "Highball", his potential current codename, could by technicality also be considered as Rum (only that it has coke as ingredient as well). Basically, "Rum" is indeed amongst the trio, but not the second-in-command Rum. 

 

Spoiler

 

Not necessarily a bitter one, but at the very least an underestimating (of Rum) one.

 

Perhaps he preferred that Gin took the mantel instead, if Wakita's current mission/actions that aligns with Gin's interest (and if the "demon in the dark" idiom, which Gin & Wakita's potential drugging target quoted, originates from Wakita) is any indication of a mentor-student relationship (since Wakita design is inspired by a mentor character).

 

 

Spoiler

If the dying message is indeed implicating Muga as according to my theory, then that would be the natural assumption.

 

 

Gotcha.

 

Essentially, I'm captivated by the uncertainty before me, right now. Regardless of what I consider to be the most probable or likely, I could see the Rum arc potentially going in completely separate directions—I'm not absolutely certain of Gosho's true answer. In the end, I'd be down for Muga or the other three turning out to be Rum. 

 

At the same time, I'm eager to have an answer—to see where Gosho intends to go with this.

 

2 hours ago, Shinan-Kudogawa said:

The possibility exists, the fact is, according to Gosho. Rum is within the three (Kuroda, Kanenori & Rumi), so what remains to conclude, is whether the Rum he is speaking of is a 'face' of a three ways Rum, or like you & MeiTanteixX discuss, that Rum is a former Rum, and a new Rum is in current position.

 

I'd say the latter possibility is more likely, but, yes—I now concur that Gosho could have been misleading with the answer to that question, and thus, Muga could still be Rum.

 

 

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Oooka & Haneda household connection

 

Recent development from File 1042 makes Iori Muga even more suspicious, since we now found out that the Haneda household is a wealthy associate of the Oooka household.

Spoiler

88r8oH9.png

His position as a Butler for the Oooka, who seems to be trusted and relied on by the Haneda, makes for a perfect information source (without getting too close to the target) about what they know about the Kohji case and what they are up to, to cover for his 17-year-old mistake (File 953), especially if RUM suspects (naturally) that the Haneda family are behind the repeated Kohji case information upload online (File 948) which the BO keeps taking down.

Spoiler

6X6Eh98.png

 

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Something still bugs me, why did Rum allow Soul detective to rant about Kohji case resolution but was very wary about Asaca song case?

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2 minutes ago, Otaku3670 said:

Something still bugs me, why did Rum allow Soul detective to rant about Kohji case resolution but was very wary about Asaca song case?

Rum specifically wasn't shown to be wary of either or. We just know the BO as a whole had their attention on both cases, because it's connected to Rum's mistake. As for Hotta, he wasn't shown to be an "allowed"/dismissed Kohji case investigator by BO. We just didn't follow the BO perspective in regards to his Kohji case segment announcement (except at the very end through Gin & Vodka after his death), as we did through Bourbon & Vermouth with Rokumichi's ASACA song announcement.

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Not sure if anyone else mentioned this before, but;

 

 

I think Rum is between Wakasa Rumi and Wakita Kanenori.

 

 

My guess is Wakasa Rumi was probably Rum, until the death of Kohji Haneda. It affected her and she did something that led to her being exiled/'killed off' by the BO.

At that time, she was also most likely Asaka, that bodyguard who went missing 17 years back. This possibility fits her age, her combat capabilities (like how she KO-ed the 3 thieves in the school shed in a single strike each, not making it look too brutal), and the 'image' of her in the past in that suit.

The scars on her arms and her sadism may or may not have played a part in her being Rum before.

 

Well, to be honest, the main reason I think she's the previous Rum is because of her current name.

Wakasa Rumi >  I was AKA Rum

Though, I don't know if the BO does this kind of member replacement.

But this possibility could also explain why there's tension between Hyoue Kuroda and her, how he was possibly on her trail when she was still Rum.

One minor reason, she was seen to be smarter/sharper than Kudo in that Skeleton Case, providing him with hints more than once, fitting for a #2 in the BO.

 

 

 

Now for Wakita Kanenori. Basically, since I feel that Hyoue Kuroda is a real officer, and that Wakasa Rumi is who I think she is, Wakita Kanenori the bunny chef should be Rum, unless *plot twist* it's someone else other than these 3 suspects.

There is also this theory on his name, where Bourbon received a text from Rum with the phrase "Time is money".

Time is money > Tokiwa Kanenari > wakiTa Kanenori

 

 

But I'm probably wrong. Haha.

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