Jump to content
Detective Conan World
Jodie Starling

Boss of The Black Organization?

Who is the boss?  

421 members have voted

  1. 1. Who is the boss?

    • New Character (not yet introduced)
    • Minor Character (appeared once or a few times before, such as a case suspect or in a case flashback)
    • Other known character not specifically mentioned below (Recurring characters)
    • Relative of known character (not yet introduced)
    • Someone else
    • Agasa Hiroshi
    • James Black
    • Miyano Atsushi
    • Elena Miyano
    • Okino Yoko
    • Okiya Subaru/Akai Shuuichi
    • Yamamura Misae
    • Matsumoto Kiyonaga
    • Kudo Yuusaku
    • Mouri Kogoro
    • Kisaki Eri
    • Sharon Vineyard
    • Gin


Recommended Posts

Heads up, James Black, Sonoko, and the Detective Boys (Ayumi, Genta, Mitsuhiko) have all been denied by Gosho via postcard.

 

People Gosho has said are not the the boss in interviews: Agasa, Kudo Yuusaku, Conan, Ran, Vermouth, Shiratori, James Black, Sonoko, Ayumi, Genta, Mitsuhiko

  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Heads up, James Black, Sonoko, and the Detective Boys (Ayumi, Genta, Mitsuhiko) have all been denied by Gosho via postcard.

 

People Gosho has said are not the the boss in interviews: Agasa, Kudo Yuusaku, Conan, Ran, Vermouth, Shiratori, James Black, Sonoko, Ayumi, Genta, Mitsuhiko

 

Shouldn't Eri be included as well? According to this

http://lounge.moviecodec.com/manga/detective-conan-discussion-thread-311382/5

 

Q 39: I always thought that Eri had something to do with the Black Organisation. What do you think? 

A: Nooo, I don’t think so. 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Shouldn't Eri be included as well? According to this

http://lounge.moviecodec.com/manga/detective-conan-discussion-thread-311382/5

 

Gosho didn't say unambiguously Eri is not the boss, so I haven't included her. She isn't even a good contender because it is unlikely the boss would give Gin permission to kill her own husband anyway.

 

Three out of four of the most suspected male characters have now been ruled out, leaving Atsushi left. Atsushi is already a bad pick because of how he behaved during Hidden Bathroom secret and because a character who married someone angelic like Elena is unlikely to order the deaths of his daughters.

 

There aren't many more major recurring characters introduced prior to the Kir arc full name interview who aren't ruled out by alibis like being with Haibara. I feel like Gosho is getting comfortable disclaiming these main characters because he isn't worried someone is going to name a character he can't deny. I get the feeling we should be looking a lot more minor, or even just for a background name.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Gosho didn't say unambiguously Eri is not the boss, so I haven't included her. She isn't even a good contender because it is unlikely the boss would give Gin permission to kill her own husband anyway.

 

Three out of four of the most suspected male characters have now been ruled out, leaving Atsushi left. Atsushi is already a bad pick because of how he behaved during Hidden Bathroom secret and because a character who married someone angelic like Elena is unlikely to order the deaths of his daughters.

 

There aren't many more major recurring characters introduced prior to the Kir arc full name interview who aren't ruled out by alibis like being with Haibara. I feel like Gosho is getting comfortable disclaiming these main characters because he isn't worried someone is going to name a character he can't deny. I get the feeling we should be looking a lot more minor, or even just for a background name.

I still have my money on Edward Crowe because name, "journalist", and lulz.

20120423040138%21Edward_Crowe.jpg

He looks the part, too.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I get the feeling we should be looking a lot more minor, or even just for a background name.

Well the most voted option in the poll is indeed “Minor Character (appeared once or a few times before)”. It’s also what I voted. :P

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well the most voted option in the poll is indeed “Minor Character (appeared once or a few times before)”. It’s also what I voted. :P

 

If you sum all the other character's votes though, you find that about 110 people voted for a major character. 41 additional people voted for "Other known character not specifically mentioned below" which was supposed to be a catch all for major characters I hadn't mentioned yet, but has probably been just as often voted in by the Karasuma Renya/Daikoku Rentarou/etc crowd who didn't choose the minor character option by mistake.

 

Detective Conan World can be considered a shapshot of the most knowledgeable DC readers. It's anyone who is into the series enough to sign up here and then vote. While that doesn't seem like a high bar to pass, it still weeds out the least dedicated. The votes seem to be nearly split 38% (~130 votes) for a known major character, 32% (~108 votes) for a minor character, 27% (~92 votes) for a new character who hasn't appeared yet (including relative of pre-existing character), and 3% (9 votes) for someone else (whatever that may be). The minor character option in particular has seen pretty drastic growth the last 3-4 years, and I think represents a general shift in theories.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi here is my speculation.

Provided that:

1. Q. On the Black Syndicate/Organization?

    A. A formal name exists. If mentioned, the boss' name will be exposed so I can't say.

(The Black Organization's formal name gives away the boss' name. "The Black Organization" is not the real name of the organization.)

 

2. In fact, the boss' name already appeared somewhere in the manga. Please see if you can find it. . . . ("Already appeared" "Please see if you can find it" = it seems to me like the name was just DROPPED out of nowhere and was not directly, exclusively and formally identified)

3. Sato: At the beginning of Kindaichi's serialization, I thought it would only last about a year.

   Aoyama: I, too, thought that it [Detective Conan] would only last about three months, since it's difficult to continue material-wise.

(Aoyama revealed that he didn't expect the Detective Conan series to last longer than three months.This indicates that the boss might have been hinted early in Detective Conan.)

 

4. The boss chooses the alcoholic codenames for the agents, but does not have one himself/herself. (His name is not based on alcoholic drinks).

 

So, if hints were given around three months since serialization, i think it is to be found at chapter 13 which were the names of the BLACK cats based on a horse.

tei gou ou kai

(A formal name exists. If mentioned, the boss' name will be exposed so I can't say)

 

I speculate that the formal name of the "black organization" is goukaiteiou [which was the name of the horse on tv and also arranged by conan to test his hypothesis] and these words mean [and i am cherry picking meaning from http://www.eudict.com/?lang=engjpk&word=old%20man,%20venerable] (threat,assembly(organization),spy,sunken)
In other words, "a secret/concealed(sunken) spy assembly (organization) which sponsors threat"

 

And if (If mentioned, the boss' name will be exposed so I can't say), then the name of the boss would be Teiou Goukai which means [again cherry picked] (spy,old man/venerable proud, feelings of the people)
In other words, "an old man/venerable spy whose people (spy members) has proud feelings for him"

 

Yes he, the boss is a male person ( Ou = old man/venerable)

 

It is episode 13 on the anime and it seems interesting that the episode is based on manga but HEAVILY ALTERED, which is instead of Gin and Vodka killing Akemi, she instead lived and the two black  men replaced by tv original character. The correct ending is shown episode 128 few years after. It appeared to me that they were TWEAKING the episodes to give a FULL BLOWN episode to end the series on the same year with probably altered ending (which is the case on some anime shows which were based on already finished material to wrap things up faster [in case of single season show] which not exactly canon but still QUITE canon) but still identifying the boss - which didn't happen.

 

This interpretation was skewed to the assumption that the series would not last a year.

So why was the name based on some horse (INVINCIBLE, EMPEROR goukaiteiou)? Maybe the guy riding on the horse was the boss and he emulated his name for his animal - and his organization.

 

Why would he would chose that name for his animal and his organization? Probably to hide it in public, instead of thinking some organization, layman would associate it with some horse. (Again from the name GOU = secret/concealed(sunken)

 

Why would the boss be openly shown on TV? Probably he has the characteristic of Vermouth being known to public and popular which would explain why the boss is tolerant to her because they were similar.  Notice that there is still no Vermouth this time and the boss might have been the BASIS for the EVENTUAL design of her character.

 

Why did the old man(who is probably a black org sub contractor) named his cats after a horse? Coincidence maybe or he knew the boss and because of his "proud feelings" for the boss he his cats after him (and he loves this cats very much).

 

Now one would argue that why would some sub contractor know the boss? Probably because that the IDEA that this black org boss was someone "super mysterious", "very exclusive", "known by few members" was STILL NONEXISTENT assuming that this series would run for just a couple of months. It was something CREATED when it was apparent that the series would run for many years.

 

As for something else then maybe the author has some explaining to do.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Can you post the kanji to accompany the Japanese terms you’re using?

I’m lost myself, but maybe someone else will understand what you’re talking about. But if you’re already speculating on the boss’s name, then couldn’t you just go through the manga and check whether that name has ever appeared?

I remember another big hint that was given in interviews is that if you read a particular volume (or chapter?) you’d easily figure it out.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

FYI the horse's exact name is in katakana and it is (ゴーカイテイオー). I want to say that animal names in Japanese are often foreign or in katakana, but I can't recall for sure.
 
I threw "gou" into my Japanese dictionary of choice and got back eight matches, one (壕(P); 濠 【ごう】) of which was more like "trench, ditch, or dugout", and another (剛; 豪 【ごう】) is "strong; hard; manly". I'm not sure which English word corresponds to which Japanese piece, except for ou which jonconan mentioned explicitly. This vagueness is a big red flag to me. You can't be vague with theories that rely on piecewise definition.

 

Too many of these theories --where favorable definitions are cherrypicked from a list of many matches-- are equivalent to finding the date of the end of the world by adding up numbers in the bible. Many kanji share sounds with other kanji, so with enough effort you can find whatever definition pleases you. For that reason, I only take one of these types of theories seriously if the original name itself was suspicious for some reason. For instance, the Daikoku Rentarou ( 太郎) name was found on the guestbook signup sheet for immortality arrows and the Daiko building (ビル (バー「カクテル」)  was the name of a meeting ground for the Black Organization. The favorite horse of some guy only tangentially related to the Black Organization (or maybe even not at all connected)  doesn't seem like it meets the criteria for suspicious name.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

People Gosho has said are not the the boss in interviews: Agasa, Kudo Yuusaku, Conan, Ran, Vermouth, Shiratori, James Black, Sonoko, Ayumi, Genta, Mitsuhiko

Found this Japanese list that says Fusae and Gin too.

http://anokata.xxxxxxxx.jp/log/1410445143.html

・フサエ・キャンベル・木之下(コナン新聞) tn: Fusae from Conan Shinbun (newspaper).

・ジン(年賀状) tn: Gin from a postcard, but the link is now dead.

↑年賀状の画像http://fbcdn-sphotos-c-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/76296_506744959376974_419223725_n.jpg

Edit: Samizu Kichiemon too: http://okamehonpo.net/i/read.php/ikura.2ch.sc/wcomic/1414657160/2 although the postcard is photographed so badly it’s not fully readable: http://stat.ameba.jp/user_images/20140925/19/keioh1122/75/fc/j/o0720040513078066558.jpg?cpd=215

Edit2: full pic: http://ameblo.jp/keioh1122/image-11930145397-13078066558.html

I’ve been trying to Google theories in Japanese because I want to know their opinions, but I’m not finding much.

  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Found this Japanese list that says Fusae and Gin too.

http://anokata.xxxxxxxx.jp/log/1410445143.html

・フサエ・キャンベル・木之下(コナン新聞) tn: Fusae from Conan Shinbun (newspaper).

・ジン(年賀状) tn: Gin from a postcard, but the link is now dead.

↑年賀状の画像http://fbcdn-sphotos-c-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/76296_506744959376974_419223725_n.jpg

Edit: Samizu Kichiemon too: http://okamehonpo.net/i/read.php/ikura.2ch.sc/wcomic/1414657160/2 although the postcard is photographed so badly it’s not fully readable: http://stat.ameba.jp/user_images/20140925/19/keioh1122/75/fc/j/o0720040513078066558.jpg?cpd=215

Edit2: full pic: http://ameblo.jp/keioh1122/image-11930145397-13078066558.html

I’ve been trying to Google theories in Japanese because I want to know their opinions, but I’m not finding much.

 

PM me if you do get ahold of pictures of more postcards. I'm making a collection that I will try to get on imgur for easy access.

 

Edit: Here is the album: http://imgur.com/a/EC1HM

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Firstly the horse's name was just pronounced from tv - it was not shown in writing. It was Conan who decided to put it down in writing using katakana. It is true that horses names are usually in katakana - which might be Conan's reasoning why he used katakana (or the author's trick to dilute the clue) - because their names are usually foreign like these list http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oka_Sho but goukaiteiou just sounds japanese.

But animals could also be named using kanji like these long listing for dog name suggestion http://japanesedognames.blogspot.jp/

As for explicit listing for the translation I got, here are those.

http://www.eudict.com/?lang=japeng&word=gou

http://www.eudict.com/?lang=japeng&word=kai

http://www.eudict.com/?lang=japeng&word=tei

http://www.eudict.com/?lang=japeng&word=ou

And again, this interpretation was skewed to the assumption that the series would not last a year. (Aoyama: I, too, thought that it [Detective Conan] would only last about three months, since it's difficult to continue material-wise.) Authors at least knew how their series will end, and with that kind of mentality about the length of the series it would not be strange that clues were already being dropped early. Like Haibara was already hinted at chapter 16 and shown after a long while at chapter 176.

Vagueness is present because this is a speculation. Who knows? But maybe this is the guy who we're looking for.

http://s24.postimg.org/sd4h2166b/dfsdfg.png 1994

http://s13.postimg.org/itdqujvtx/dfdfb.jpg January 25, 2014

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think the boss is Atsushi Miyano because:

 

1-Aoyama Gosho said that his identity will surprise haibara

 

2-because Gosho said ano kata was mentioned but did not appear

 

now these are my suspicions:

 

A-Vermouth is Elina Miyano because:

 

1-In episode  770 we saw Bourbon s flash back with Elina Miyano when he was a child,,

this means that they knew each other before and we know that Bourbon works under Vermouth.

 

2-Vermouth saw Haibara a lot but she never killed her... 

 

3-Boubon Said in file 898 that will be aired in the scarlet showdown that Vermouth has a relationship with the boss and all  the BO 

 

will be surprise if they know the relationship,,, so maybe she is his wife(Atsushi miyano),

 

B-Maybe Akemi Miyano is Rum but i do not have clues on this theory yet...

 

..............................................................................................................................

 

Now the conclusion : 

 

1- Atsushi Miyano is the boss....

2- Vermouth is  Elina Miyano....

...........................................................................................................................

Someone will say:

Q\Why Will Atsushi Kill His daughter?

A\ This is a very dangerous organization and its boss must be with no feelings

............................................................................................................................

 

As for Vermouth, I find it extremely unlikely that she would be Elena Miyano.

Vermouth tried and probably would have killed Haibara had Ran not intervened in 345, as well as in the Mystery Train with the explosives (unbeknownst to Bourbon). 

She clearly has a grudge towards the Miyano family in general (for what reason we don't know, but maybe due to their involvement with the "Silver Bullet"). The audio tapes also show that Elena cares for her daughter in demeanor and enough to leave messages behind for her.

 

She's the former actress Sharon/Chris Vineyard. We already know her real identity. We've never seen Elena's eyes, but I'd say they don't look alike (Elena is also British).

 

Rei's former relationship with Elena is unclear. She could be the reason he was brought into the organization. They could be related somehow, or Elena could have taken care of him when he was younger, who knows. Bourbon's plan on the Mystery Train originally could have devised to help Haibara fake her death, which is also a theory. Given we know he is a spy, is there anything "really" tying him down to the organization? (He does seem to have a deep interest in Akai Shuichi though, but that's probably due to Scotch)

 

As for Atsushi, there really isn't much to go on, but didn't Gosho also say that the boss had already appeared in the manga? (I don't think Atsushi has made any appearance in the manga that we know about, not sure if this is relevant at all in the first place)

 

I'm not sure why Akemi would be Rum, it goes against the code-name "policy" that Gosho uses. Rum should definitely be a man. She's also dead, and we know that Rum now is apparently "on the move". She wasn't important enough to the organization to even receive a code-name.

 

I'm not discounting the possibility that Atsushi could be the boss, but I think both of Haibara's parents are dead. I don't really have much of a reason to believe otherwise.

  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

first : your words make sense but maybe vermouth was just threatening haibara because when calvados started shooting she cried for him to not make him shoot....

But there's something i want to know:if elina took care of rei when he was younger and rei age is close to haibara age so haibara must have seen rei when she was young....

 

 

1. She ordered Calvados to stop shooting, because he was shooting at Ran. He wasn't even aiming for Haibara, so it's pretty clear Vermouth wanted to protect Ran and not Haibara.

2. What makes you think Haibara/Shiho and Rei are close in age? For all we know, Haibara is 18 and Rei is 29, do you have any reasons to believe otherwise?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

first : your words make sense but maybe vermouth was just threatening haibara because when calvados started shooting she cried for him to not make him shoot....

we know that she maybe took the aptx4869 or a developed version of it to make sure she does not die because the probability of the aptx shrunk a person body is 1% ...so i think that if she was Elina Miyano then she made a developed version of aptx for herself and maybe for her husband ,,,and maybe she thinks that aptx(silver bullet)is very dangerous and could destroy the organization enemies so she calls conan and akai that name....

Second:i dont know if she cares for her daughter but i think that when you work in a killing and robbing organization your personality could be changed (just a theory)

But there's something i want to know:if elina took care of rei when he was younger and rei age is close to haibara age so haibara must have seen rei when she was young....

I think that vermouth loves conan and she promised him not to kill sherry and sge maybe told bourbon about the promise so your theory is maybe right....

You are right about akemi and because of that i said it just a theory with no clues....

As for atsushi...gosho said that we knew his full name and he appeared...atsyshi appeared at episode 340 (hidden bathroom secret) in a flashback....

Haibara s parents may be dead but we didnt see any clues on this...

She called out to Calvados to stop firing because he was shooting at Ran (Angel), and Vermouth has a sentimental attachment to both Shinichi and Ran because they saved her in New York when she was disguised as a serial killer to lure out Akai Shuichi.

The "Silver Bullet" is a reference to a person who can destroy the organization, but it's unclear if we can link it to the drug (or if it's even the same one as APTX4869, probably the same project though)

 

I'm not talking about Atsushi Miyano's appearance in the anime, I'm talking about the manga (although he was mentioned by name in the manga, obviously). I believe when Gosho said that the boss had appeared, it was partial to the manga, and it was quite some time ago as well, towards the beginning of the series. After all, Detective Conan wasn't expected to last that long, let alone 20+ years.

 

"Maybe" is the key word there. It could be awhile until we know for certain why it is that she doesn't age. Where does it say that APTX has a 1% chance as well, as far as I know, shrinking was just a rare side effect...

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

1. She ordered Calvados to stop shooting, because he was shooting at Ran. He wasn't even aiming for Haibara, so it's pretty clear Vermouth wanted to protect Ran and not Haibara.

2. What makes you think Haibara/Shiho and Rei are close in age? For all we know, Haibara is 18 and Rei is 29, do you have any reasons to believe otherwise?

Well we don't know for certain either of their ages do we? Haibara is most likely 18 or so though (as she said so herself, and I think the audio tape left by her mother mentioned her upcoming birthday was 19. Rei's age is more of a gamble isn't it? In any case, I doubt they are close in age anyways given Rei's involvement with the Secret Police. Even if 29 is a lie, it probably isn't far off.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now