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[SPOILER DISCUSSION] File 876-878 (Sera's Hotel Murder Case)

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THIS THREAD is used to discuss about SPOILERSIn other words, if you only read the English version and wish to wait for the official release instead of getting spoiled, this is NOT the right place for you!




1. Any kind of spoiler involving the case (pictures, texts, information, full scans...) of any language that is released before the actual English version must be posted HEREThe English translations of the spoilers must also be posted here. Please DO NOT share them at the thread made for English-files readers only, in ANY form (NOT even in spoiler boxes).


2. Any kind of discussion involving the spoilers must be posted HERE. Please DO NOT reveal, give hints or talk about any information or event (that has not yet happened in the English releases) at the thread made for English-files readers only, in ANY form (NOT even in spoiler boxes).


3. Despite being a Spoiler-only thread, EVERY spoiler and discussion involving events that has not yet happened in the English releases STILL has to be put inside Spoiler boxes. When the mentioned file is officially released in English, this is not necessary anymore.


4. NO DIRECT LINK to Original Japanese scans (RAWs) or to ANY English manga scan because we don't want to have any problem with lawyers. (Japanese spoiler pictures are allowed as long as the amount and quality of which are very very far away from a full scan, like the ones we usually have).



1. Why is this whole thing necessary?

A: Please click here.


2. Why do I still have to use Spoiler boxes here?

A: In case some member (who only follows the English files) get confused, misclick, or just simply get in the wrong thread... etc., this rule is made NOT to let spoilers get revealed to them. And since this is quite complicated, confusions are unavoidable, especially for new members.


3. How do I use Spoiler boxes anyway?

A: Just simply type the following:

[spoiler]Text you want to write[/spoiler]
Or more manually:

Step 1: Click the "Special BBCode" icon at the upper-left side of the edit toolbar.



Step 2: In BBCode, select "Spoiler".



Step 3: Enter the text that you want to put inside Spoiler boxes, then click OK.



4. If the spoiler is not obvious enough to viewers (e.g. one must click a link in order to see it), do I have to use Spoiler boxes?

A: No, using link addresses is also a hiding method. Again the purpose of this is just to protect the spoilers and info. from being viewed by members who do not want to see them (but get in here by accident). However, you should STATE CLEARLY that it's a spoiler, just to make sure.


5. Can I join the discussion in the other thread as well?

A: Of course you can. HOWEVER, as mentioned in the rules above, you MUST NOT reveal, give hints or talk about ANYTHING that spoils.


6. Who are you anyway? Why do we have to follow YOUR rules?

A: Not mine. Chek suggested that it should be this way. Also, the person who create the threads must write the rules clearly on the very first post from now on, whether they want it or not; this applies to every member (not only me).


ANYWAY, everyone should read this whole post carefully before posting or viewing anything. If you are mistaken for not paying attention to it, the creator of the thread, the moderators and every other forum members will NOT take any responsibility.



876 Chinese: http://tieba.baidu.com/p/2643278827


Some translations:

Page 3 (from 3rd panel):


Ran: So, is your mother still living in America?

Sera: Yeah, ever since I came back to Japan, I've been living alone at a hotel. I thought of living together with my second brother who's been in Japan the whole time, but he refused...

Sonoko: But living at a hotel like that, don't tell me you're a girl from some rich family?

Sera: My father has a friend who is always taking care of me, he's rich, but not as wealthy as Sonoko-kun.

Sonoko: Is that so?

Sera: I'm not acquainted with any other relative whom I can depend on... I think that after I grow up I'll definitely repay him properly.

Conan (thinking): Three siblings, two are brothers. If she's not acquainted with any other relative...


Page 4:


Conan: Then who on earth is that person? Who's the girl looking a lot like Sera that appears on her cellphone's screen?


NOTE: While the Chinese translation used the masculine pronoun "him", it's possible that it was a gender-neutral word in the original Japanese, so I'm not sure if Sera's friend is male. Also as you can see, there's another person hiding inside Sera's hotel apartment, probably inside the room where she didn't want Conan to enter.


EDIT: The Chinese team has made some corrections to their translation: http://tieba.baidu.com/p/2643854673, so I've changed mine too.

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Conan has brought up the possibility the girl in the photo is not Sera. Usually when Conan drops hints like that it's a clear indication to follow the line of thought he is suggesting. I think the photo = Akai's mom, kid Akai Shuuichi theory is looking more likely.

The only problem is who is the other person in Sera's apartment behind the door Sera didn't let Conan open, and who presumably opened the door where Conan dropped his bag? It could be the mystery kid... or Sera's mom? They look quite short, so it could definitely be the kid from the picture. They do look taller than Conan though.

Regardless, Sera definitely lied about living alone to Conan, Ran, and Sonoko.

Re some translation errors

Black Demon: SOME TRANSLATION ERRORS REPORTED BY THE CHINESE STAFFS: http://tieba.baidu.com/p/2643854673

Black Demon:Apparently it's her FATHER'S rich friend, not Sera's. Also, he's NOT as rich as Sonoko.

James Black anyone?

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Crack theory: The Campbell family knows the Sera family - or they both know Billy - either I believe would fit the qualification of "rich" but not crazy rich like Sonoko's family. I wouldn't mind it because they're characters who have already appeared (or know those who have appeared).

OT: I honestly think that having a larger set of reoccurring minor characters is what's missing. Conan has met a lot of people and while yes there's already a large cast, it doesn't have that aspect like in FMA where at the end they're all going to be supporting Conan in getting back his body. I always feel as if more "survivor" characters from past cases should appear like the Hatamoto's used to.


Side note: Poor poor Sera!! There's going to be some major heartbreak later, knowing Gosho...

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Crack theory: The Campbell family knows the Sera family - or they both know Billy - either I believe would fit the qualification of "rich" but not crazy rich like Sonoko's family. I wouldn't mind it because they're characters who have already appeared (or know those who have appeared).

I like it!

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In fact, earlier I started pondering on Maeda Satoru from the Night Baron case because of his karate skills... but fitting him into this arc might be too far-fetched ^^;;;


Edit: Or, Gosho proves my fanfic partially true and Yuusaku is paying for Sera's hotel. Shinichi/Conan never remembers anyone! *He didn't recognize Eri.*



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Murder case related stuff, description and deductions.

With help from Fujiwara and Shadow:

Pg 5: The gang see three men waiting. Ran and Sonoko wonder what those guys are doing in the hallway. Sera says that they're waiting for the manuscript of a popular romance author who lives on that floor. When Sera tries to recall his name, said author introduces himself.

Pg 6-7: The three men are publishers invited over by a romance author, Mr. Bald guy, to get a chance to see his manuscript. Mr. Bald Author challenges the three men to a contest: whoever eats the most would get his manuscript first. Delivery people have been bringing by various orders for this contest: sushi, wine, pizza, Chinese food, and donuts.

Pg 8: The author shows the three men a scale. The winner of the eating contest will be the person with the highest difference between the before and after weigh-in wins. Mr. Bald Author says he'll go take a bath and that they should be watchful that he doesn't leave the chamber and do something bad.

Pg 10: The three men leave feeling sick, and it is unclear which one won. They discuss how the author is having an affair with his assistant, a bleached-hair woman (and the vic in this case). They mention the assistant took a room directly below the author’s, but didn't even show up once. They assume this is because of the bad press the affair got and the threatening letters about the affair they all received. The author was hot up-and-coming when he was younger, then he lost popularity for a while, but recently he's regained popularity all thanks to the new assistant he took on last year.

Pg 13: There is shouting from the floor below.

Pg 14: The body of a blond woman, the assistant of the author, is found by the door of her room on the floor directly below the author’s by a staffperson bringing room service.

Pg 15: She has been strangled and Yoshikawa lines are visible. She has been dead 2-3 hours. The author comes down so see the commotion along with one of the publishers.

Pg 16: The publisher mentions they all received threatening messages regarding the affair between the author and that woman. The author claims not to have heard about them: “You could have told me! While this happened to her, I was writing a romance novel without a care in the world ...” Conan and Sera suspect the bald author is the culprit.

Threatening letter content:

pg 10: Get that man-eating woman who has become his assistant away from him!

pg 16: If you don't get rid of that assistant, you'll regret it ...

My thoughts so far:

Conan and Sera are convinced that the author is the culprit. Assuming he is, then the contest and the obvious request for the publishers to make sure he doesn’t leave is clearly part of the author’s plan to turn the three men into his alibi. Leaving during a contest is poor form, they might cheat after all.

Based on the fact that the author appears to want his alibi to be that he never left his room during a certain time frame, we can deduce that the murder took place during the eating contest while the author was supposedly in his bath. The crime was also premeditated so we can posit planning beforehand. If the author has an intact alibi, only way for the him to leave his room would be to descend via the balcony which would take him to his assistant’s room directly below his.

The female staffperson who walks in with the bottle of wine is probably the assistant victim. She had blond hair pulled back and is not shown leaving. The author tells her to decant the wine and no more mention is made of her afterwards. She is "hidden" in a crowd of people bringing food items who have come before and after her. Her mole on her chin may be covered by makeup so that she isn't recognizable. It’s unclear why she would disguise and come by. Presumably it’s part of the author’s plan, whatever that is. He must have convinced her to do something…

The author probably descended via balcony to her room (after killing her with her body?). The body needs to be by the door so it will be found quickly. The door also needs to be unlocked so that it appears some random person could attack her.

Assuming the author person was controlling her movement, if he intended to strangle her in her own room, he wouldn't have to have gotten her to come by as a staff. At this point I can’t reconcile why he would ask her to come by dressed as a staff person with necessity. I don’t think she disguised without him knowing because he wouldn’t likely have time to prepare a murder trick that involves getting her body back into her own room on the spot.

The victim died via strangling while conscious and capable of resisting. The Yoshikawa lines around the strangle wound means the item the culprit strangled with her was bloodied. The woman’s body seems to have been found close to her door, so she couldn't be lowered on to her balcony like in the historical actor murder case.

Room service for two – wine with two glasses - was ordered to her room. The room service arriving to her room would be incredibly convenient for the culprit because if she is found quickly it would solidify his alibi. I am guessing he prompted the order: maybe he ordered it for her, telling her he will be down after he and the publishers finish up, or she ordered it on his suggestion thinking he will come down after they finish. I think the first is more likely because the author would want to make sure the body is found before a gap could happen that would break his alibi.

Who sent the threatening letters isn’t clear. The author may have done it in order to provide some sort of motive for an imaginary outside killer to attack the assistant.

The motive for the murder is probably something like the illustrator murder case motive.

The button on the bald author’s shirt has disappeared between the meeting and him coming downstairs. Art error or clue?

New Hotel

The hotel Sera is at now is not the same one that Sera was in to begin with. (see V74-4 pg 16) That said, Conan and Ran don't mention it so I suppose they expected the move. In this case, Ran says "I’d like to see the place where Sera-san is living as well! ♥" Maybe Sera left after the murder case where the guy trashed her old hotel? Or maybe she moved for another reason?

The person in the room

For people wondering about the person opening Sera's door, I did quick sketches to guess the minimum and maximum possible height for the person assuming they are standing normally. (Any squatting, crouching, or leaning over will mean the person is taller than estimation.) My results are that the person is about 1.5 times taller than Conan at minimum and a little less than 2 of Conan at a maximum. That size range covers older children to teens about Sera and Ran's height. Keep in mind that this depends on Gosho's art being near perfect and my estimations being pretty good. My method is below.

First I estimated Conan's height relative to the door:


Then, using the image of the hand, I sketched in the body figure of the person using Gosho-style arm, body, head proportions for children (Not uploaded because too lazy, crappy fast art). For calculating lowest possible height, I made the assumption that the arm was fully extended out, in order to minimize the height of the shoulder. (See picture for type of reaching motion I mean). This is probably not realistic given the scene because that would put the person far back from the door rather than a more appropriate peeking out position.

For approximating max height I assumed the upper arm was in a near vertical position similar to this pose's left arm. This brings the shoulder to the maximum possible height.

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This case is almost like that case where a writer's assistant was murdered, while the writer was staying on a hotel. You remember that, right?


Maybe Sera's father had been a FBI-agent before Akai, who died in duty, killed by the BO.

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As for the main case:


First of all - the whole eating contest looks ridiculous by the first look. But obviously, it isn't. Those three was supposed to eat, which means that they was unable to finish fast enough and there was a contest, so, none was able to stop, or leave. In other words, the whole trick looks time consuming. We can't see well enough inside of the room and that's make it hard to understand the trick. But the fact that victim is in bathrobe bothering me. Culprit also was about to go to the bath... Maybe there's something in there. But I really wonder about two things - why body is close to the door, even though victim was strangle (body is too close to the door, it's like someone is really standed there to not let victim move, if there was none and it was some sort of trick with a string, why she didn't move from the door?) and why there's no string itself.

Is there a trick with a door? There's a spy-holes on the doors, so it may be like there was a noose around it. Like a noose made from fishing like. The other part of fishing line may be on the other side of the door. He was able to make it before, since she was his assistent. So it was like "Knock-Knock"->"Who's there?"->"..."->"Looking into spy-hole"->"Strangled". But murderer should be able to sneak to her door in this case and I can't see how he was able to do it. And if he was in the room and leaved throught the balcony, then why body is close to the door? It doesn't help murderer to make aliby in any way. Door was impossible to open? It makes window more obvious. So, I really want to see the insides of the room.

About Sera's family and that cute little new character:

It's a mess. It's a complete mess. I expected some sort of revelation in Red Woman Case, but it made things even worse. Much, much, much worse. I honestly don't know what to think about Masumi-san now. She have a hell of a family there. Middle brother is interesting topic by itself (I like Chūkichi version), but now there's another mystery - father and rich friend of a family. My first thought - Date Wataru-san as Sera-san’s father and Amuro Tōru as a rich friend (remember File 808: The Late Grave Visit?). But it can’t be, since when Date-san died, he wasn’t married and his girlfriend commited suicide. Second thought - Kuroba Tōichi-san as a father and Kudō Yūsaku-san as a friend (they was somehow close in a way (? / !) and if Tōichi-san was able to contact Yūsaku-san about Pandora Gem before his death, it makes sense). Third thought - Morimura-keishi (Let it Be Case, Files 667-673) as a father (he wasn’t married too, but he was engaged and was about to marry next month when he died on the line of duty) and Matsumoto-keishi as a rich friend. Last version is the most interesting, since the whole travel to America makes sense this way. Remember, that Let it Be killer was caught only many years later, so family may be under some sort of protection after Morimura-keishi died. And when killer was caught, Sera returned to Japan. What doesn't fit is that there's too many kids in a family. Morimura-keishi was able to start being a father right before his deth, but none can be pregnant with a three kids with different age. So, it doesn't fit too.

And here comes that cute little baby on the photo. With the same eyes. And Sera said that aside of mother and brothers, there's no other people in her family. And this girl have the same eyes... How is it even possible? If it wasn't a girl, there can be a very bold assumption that Akai-san used APTX4869 to escape fire in his Chevrolet and now hiding in Sera's room. Girl's hair looks exactly like his, even though she's blonde. In this case, Subaru-san may be a middle brother and even dangerous middle brother. Yet again, Subaru-san being Akai-san version is very solid and it's hard to believe that there's more in it. Too many proofs of various sorts for Subaru being Akai. So, who's the girl then??? She doesn't looks like a regular girl. First of all, as we've seen in this File, Sera have reasons to hide her, but still, showed her to Conan for a reason. She looks related to Silver Bullet project no matter how you look at it. I can't connect her to it in any way. Same goes to Sera-san's family. All we know for sure is that one of the brothers is Akai-san and he's almost cerainly the same person with Subaru-san. But who was the father, who's the middle brother and where in the world did they found that girl is a big mystery. Moreover, it's hard to build solid assumption, there's not enough facts. We can add Akai-san's worst enemy - Amuro, we can add Date-san's notebook (it's pretty obvious that there's something important in it and Takagi-kun just didn't noticed), but all this only makes thing even more complicated.

Interesting assumption - the one who Sera-san searched in the first place wasn't Akai-san, but this girl. Not possible again though, since she was very agitated when she saw Scar Akai. Then it means that girl was with her from very beginning? Then why did she said that the only family she have is her brothers and mother? Bold assumption - the girls is actually her mother, who's somehow related to Silver Bullet project. Because I still can't see the other reason for this girl to be such an important. I mean, if she's just a little gitl, there's no problem at all. Like "Hello, Conan-kun, meet my little syster Whatever-her-name!" and that's it. But no, she's hiding her in bathroom and showed her photo to Conan as some sort of hint. And it looks like that girl is somehow interested in case / Conan and friends (frame with opened door). Absolutely crazy assumption: the girl is Sera-san's mother and an important figure in Black Organization, while middle brother is Amuro (well, he's blond too)))). Sera just don't understand things, while Akai-san is some sort of black sheep in the family. But that's a complete madness, I know, just thinking aloud.


Another interesting assumption is that girl is some sort of huge success of Silver Bullet project. And that's why family, or just Sera-san hiding her. But then, how? Who? When? When Akai-san leaved Black Organization, there was no chance for him to escape with someone. Camel-san just made his true identity obvious and Akai-san was unable to return. So, if the girl was in Organization, even as a guinea pig, then how she escaped? And if someone work on Silver Bullet project outside of Organization, then who? Theory about survived Miyano family is a madness, because none tried to get Shiho-san from Organization aside of passed Akemi-san. Then, Sera-san's father, or mother was a scientists too? Maybe that's how Akai-san learned about the Organization in a first place? Then, version about Sera-san's mother looks interesting.


I think I should stop now, this post is long enough already, but the truth is - case in a new chapter doesn't looks too complicated, but new character and Masumi-san's family becomes more and more mysterious with every chapter.

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Remember the part when Sera asked Conan did he like anyone and responded with a ... to Conan's response? Could that be a hint to Sera's past with Conan? Or a hint that could be linked to the supposive girl in the bedroom. Remember Sera made sure that Conan saw the picture of the girl on her phone.

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I reread the case and it occurred to me that if the victim could sneak into the room disguised as a delivery person with wine, then the author could kill her in the back of his own room and sneak out in his own delivery person disguise, maybe with a cart of stuff to hide the body on. There were a number of delivery people coming and leaving so that it would be easy to take advantage of the confusion of people coming and going. The people doing the eating contest probably won't be paying attention. That would add an additional explanation to why the body was close to the front door - easiest to dump it there (and will be quickly spotted when room service comes later.)

Also, if the victim did come upstairs with wine, perhaps it was to drop off the completed manuscript for the publishers (and undress for shower + affair after the publishers leave). The author man could have her use a disguise without making her suspicious with the excuse that it would be good not to be recognized since bad things have been said about the two of them.

Also, if you all were wondering how Sera and Conan knew he was the killer, it was because the author slipped and somehow knew when the threatening letters were delivered, and thus how long the publishers had time to tell him about them. There may be other clues, like the missing button, that tipped them off too.

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When did that happen?

I thought when Conan said the girl who looks like Sera, he was referring to Sera. The girl in the photo is def Sera now, so that was incorrect in the end.

Known facts about the child:

• Conan thinks the child is female. Outfit appears to be a high-neck pleated top, hoodie jacket, and hat. A pleated top, assuming that is what it is, is considered female-only clothing in Japan as far as I know.

• Child has neck length, blond, curly hair. It's noted to resemble Char Aznable's.

• Middle school aged-looking according to Conan, so approx 12-15 years old. Height is intermediate between Conan and Ran.

• Has eyes like Akai Shuuichi.

• Highly likely to have been hiding in Masumi's bedroom. Masumi preventing Conan from entering the bedroom and the child was later shown emerging from her room later (876).

• Conan thinks Masumi showed the child's picture to him intentionally, although the purpose is unknown.

Some notes about the facts

• Wearing a hat indoors is somewhat secretive, but also common for Akai family.


Conan suspected Masumi was warning someone to hide in the text to her brother

Conan seems surprised that Masumi would so quickly cancel a meeting with her brother (876: pgs 4), especially after Masumi noted earlier that she has no idea what the brother has been doing of where he has been. (859: pgs 6-7) Conan gets the suspicious "..." watching Masumi text her brother happily, suggesting that she is doing something he finds suspect. Conan then decides to pry around the apartment, something Masumi in turn was alert to. Since the child in the photo was shown on the bed, Conan may have just been intending to match the patterns with his memory of those he saw on the phone picture to ascertain where the photo was taken. That said, I think Conan is assuming Masumi's text was a warning to stay hidden, especially after he was blocked from the bedroom.

Conan suspects there is something important about the child

Conan chases after the child in the crowd in a hurried and almost panicked fashion. The last time he did that sort of thing was when Scar Akai appeared and when he thought Bourbon might have gotten some serious information. That doesn't imply the child is evil, but certainly suggests that Conan thinks the child is important enough to track down immediately and get emotional about. Bugging the room pretty much confirms Conan's intentions as well as his belief that the child is not bad because he risked his bug being found and traced back to him.

Conan's assumption that the child is a girl should be taken with a grain of salt

Conan could very well be correct about the child being a girl. That said, Masumi already fooled Conan into thinking she was male. Androgyny might be a recurring theme for the Akai family. Even though the child appears in girl's clothes, if the child is a boy in hiding (wearing a hat indoors suggests this may be the case) then they may be using their androgynous appearance as a simple disguise.

Reason why Masumi would show Conan the child's picture

Conan thinks Masumi deliberately showed him the picture of the child in 875. Masumi has also been relatively free with information regarding her family. It may be that she is inviting Conan to make a deduction about the child's identity.

If Conan is wrong about why Masumi wanted him to retrieve her phone, I can only think of a few other options. Maybe she wanted his fingerprints? If that is the case, couldn't she have gotten them already from something else he touched? Maybe she left the camera on and was filming his face close up as he collected it? Maybe it was recording his voice? (If it is the voice, Masumi could have purchased a recorder earlier, or recorded Conan during the deduction scene.)

Theories about the identity of the child

Facts about Masumi's family

This is the information about Masumi's family she has given us so far. Most of it is self reported, so if she is lying everything goes out the window.

• Masumi's nuclear family consists of five individuals

....• A father who is dead

....• A mother, well endowed, currently living in America. Resembles Masumi and the eldest son.

....• An oldest son, thought to be dead, who looks like Masumi and his mother. Heavily implied to be Akai Shuuichi.

....• A middle brother living in Japan who doesn't look like Masumi, Shuuichi, or their mom.

......Smart as opposed to strong, probably 28-29 years old, and has been advising Masumi on cases by phone.

......His whereabouts and work are unknown according to Masumi. His last name isn't Sera or Akai.

....• Sera Masumi herself

Masumi claims that she doesn't have any more relatives close enough to depend on. (876 pg 3) It is unclear whether this means that her family are all the relatives she has, or she could have more relatives, but they aren't close enough to support her. She says she is being financially supported by one of her dad's friends. The identity of this backer is unknown currently.

This information appears to exclude another blood relative in Masumi's nuclear family, which confuses Conan. That leaves us with a few options

• Masumi has lied about the number of siblings she has.

• Masumi has lied or does not know about (i.e. doesn't know they are related by blood) having additional relatives she is close with, one of which is the child.

• The child is not considered part of Masumi's family by Masumi.

• The child's strong resemblance to the Akai family is coincidental.

• The child is an offspring of one of her siblings.

• The child is in fact one if her family members, implying they were shrunken somehow.

Detailed Breakdown of above listed ideas

Masumi lied about the number of siblings she has or the relatives that she has

If the child is another blood sibling, the span of her mother's childbearing years is minimum 13-14 years, assuming they are born of a single mother. Also I would expect to see clues that Masumi lied about her family per the Gosho-writes-solvable-mysteries-which-means-there-should-be-clues-somewhere principle.

If the child is a relative of Masumi's then it doesn't explain why she would want to show Conan the picture, unless she was afraid of letting Ran and Sonoko know she had relatives.

Masumi doesn't know the child is a blood relative of hers

In these cases it is unclear why Masumi would want to show Conan the photo of someone she doesn't think is related to her.

• Masumi's backers may be blood relatives of the Akai family, but Masumi does not know this yet. The child is related to her backers.

• The child is a secret offspring of the father or mother. It is unclear when Masumi's father died. If he had a child by another woman, then it is possible that the child was raised with that other woman instead, and Masumi was not aware of the relationship. Also, if somehow her mother concealed a pregnancy from Masumi, it's possible that the child is a secret sibling.

The child is not considered part of Masumi's family by Masumi

One solution is that Mrs. Akai remarried and had another child after the death of her first husband, who had Shuuichi, middle brother, and Masumi. Masumi for some reason doesn't consider this step-child a part of her family. This sort of logic seems weird to me, but maybe there is customary thinking to explain this?

The child is an offspring of one of Masumi's older brothers

• Her middle brother is 28/29 which would make him a teen parent if that was the case.

• Shuuichi is older and theoretically could have had a relationship with another woman early on. That said, Shuuichi hasn't acted like he has a child (unless the woman he impregnated kept the child secret from him). Jodie is 28 and would have been a teen mom. No past girlfriends of Shuuichi old enough to have had the child are known to exist.

The child is in fact one if her family members, implying they were shrunken somehow.

The APTX 4869 theory.

Gin mentioned that Shinichi was the first, or at least one of the first people APTX 4869 was tested on. That is backed up by Haibara implying that the Black Organization hadn't been using it as a poison for too long. Her test of APTX 4869 on Numabuchi was blocked by him escaping. That implies that any shrinking going on will be recent in the case of APTX 4869, or really old to the tune of 18 years if Silver Bullet is involved. Silver Bullet was never mentioned as being tested on people, so APTX 4869 is more likely. Haibara, in her intro case, did give a warning that she thought more people might shrink which would be disastrous if discovered, so Shinichi should hurry up and make Kogoro famous and break the Org.

A shrunken person would explain why Masumi showed Conan the child on her phone, inviting him to figure out that he and the child have the same problem. If Conan thinks he is dealing with a shrunken child, it explains why he took off running after the kid in an extreme way and bugged their room.

Then there is the problem of why anyone would be dosed with APTX. Amuro trying to lure out Shuuichi by killing one of his family? The person got caught investigating something?

The middle brother shrunk

Out of all the various candidates, the middle bro makes the most sense. If he is the child, he looks different from Masumi and Shuuichi with his light hair color, something Japanese people are sensitive to. I could see Masumi saying he looks different from she and Shuuichi, even though their eyes are similar. If the middle brother is feminine-looking to the point where he is mistaken for a woman (in contrast to Masumi's masculine appearance) then the brother might be posing as a female child because it is a convenient disguise, especially if he doesn't know who is trustworthy. The middle bro has failed to tell Masumi where he is and what he is doing and refused to allow Masumi live with him, all things he would be doing if he was trying to hide his shrunken state from her, or what Masumi would say to others if Masumi was covering for him.

It's strange that Masumi appears to have realized Conan is Shinichi (see discussion on The Wizard), but she hasn't informed her middle brother (who is in a similar state) about this discovery and working with Conan prior to the Makoto parking lot bathroom drowning case. If she knew her brother was shrunken, I would think that she would try to probe Conan to figure out what happened earlier on. She hasn't done so yet.

The only way I can reconcile this is if the brother had been keeping his shrinking a secret from Masumi up until the text message with Conan's picture in the Makoto parking lot drowning case. Then he himself figured out Conan was Shinichi (maybe he met Shinichi in the past too). In between Twin Bets and Red Woman, he broke his prior secrecy and called a meeting with Masumi because he wants info on someone else with his condition. Masumi takes a picture of her brother at this time and shows it to Conan in the Red Woman Case, hoping Conan will figure out there is someone else like him too. Masumi really did intend to meet with her brother at the hotel where she claims to be living now (which is different than the short hotel she was shown to be living in before.) She changes plans to have Conan, Ran, and Sonoko come over so that the brother could get a look at Conan for himself, and so Conan can learn more about her brother's shrunken state. In case they see her later at a different hotel (the one where Masumi really lives), Masumi lies about moving out soon. Masumi keeps Conan from going in the bedroom is so he doesn't realize she doesn't live there (and because the brother was hiding in there). The brother wears a hat indoors when going to the scene of the crime in order to be sneaky.

This explanation doesn't account for how the brother knew Conan was a good detective. (He would have had to know about Conan ahead of time - see middle brother theories on knowing Conan is Shinichi)

If the brother is the child, that means as an adult, he probably looked a bit like Okiya, because siblings typically have similar builds. That would explain Masumi's instant startled reaction to Okiya, but uncharacteristic failure to follow up on any suspicion later. She realized he wasn't who she thought he was at first.

Masumi's mother shrunk

Well the child would be a girl. I don't really know what else to add onto this. Masumi's mother hasn't been active in the storyline the way the middle brother has. Masumi said her mother was in America, which could be a lie. Almost all the other information about Masumi's mother is physical appearance related. Maybe the mother met Ran in the past, because Masumi asks Ran to back an assertion that her mother is big chested, implying that Ran must have seen her in the past.

Akai Shuuichi shrunk

Shuuichi is definitely Okiya, so this doesn't work.

Characteristics Okiya possesses that Shuuichi has, but the middle bro might not have:

Black Org feeling

Ran's feeling they have met before

Quote "Don't make that face" and Haibara's feeling Okiya and Shuuichi are similar

Knowledge on how to operate Conan's tracking glasses despite not having seen them before as Okiya

Able to "predict Shiho and Akemi Miyano's moves"

Likes bourbon whiskey.

Left handed.

The presence of Yukiko while Okiya was living in the Kudo house. Yukiko is good in disguise.

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Does anybody know if something changed for the English translation team recently? Not that I ever checked before, but I think they mistranslated 2 lines in recent chapters (one in 876). Nothing major though.

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Does anybody know if something changed for the English translation team recently? Not that I ever checked before, but I think they mistranslated 2 lines in recent chapters (one in 876). Nothing major though.

Nothing has changed as far as I know. What are the lines you suspect?

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Actually they’re both from ch.876. The “I’d really like to talk about the Red Woman incident with you guys…” on page 4 I think should’ve been “I wanted to talk about it directly (with my brother (so that’s why the appointment))”, and the “or I might fall for you!” on page 12 I think should’ve been “I’m really curious!”.

I might have some backing on the first line on the fact that they don’t seem to talk about that case between each other at all, rather chatting about love interests. But yeah, nothing important.

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Actually they’re both from ch.876. The “I’d really like to talk about the Red Woman incident with you guys…” on page 4 I think should’ve been “I wanted to talk about it directly (with my brother (so that’s why the appointment))”, and the “or I might fall for you!” on page 12 I think should’ve been “I’m really curious!”.

I might have some backing on the first line on the fact that they don’t seem to talk about that case between each other at all, rather chatting about love interests. But yeah, nothing important.


Sera: んじゃ、断りのメール入れとくか。。。


Ran: あ、じゃあいいよ。。。

Sera: 平気平気!赤女事件の話を直接話したくて。。。



This is a little wordy for me, but yes it sounds like she wanted to give her brother a first hand account of how it happened and made plans to meet with him ASAP, not letting him say no. It wasn't that she wanted to talk about the case with them.


Ran: 誰にも言わないから教えて。。。

わたし気になっちやう  ♡


You may be on to something but there maybe something in the inflection on how Ran says it which is why they went with that translation.

From what I see, I'd put it as "I'm not going to tell anybody, so you don't have to worry about telling me ♡" but my Japanese isn't perfect..

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I think in the second "error" (Ran asks Conan) translation can go both way without lost in understanding. it mean the same thing.


Knightus said this one has been brought up in DCTP cbox once and Fuji already explain her choice of word. I cant seem to find said discussion, however.





Fujiwara and Zenthisoror talked and come up with new text that matches Alaktorn"s. Its go as this.


Fujiwara: p. 4
Fujiwara: Sera: Don’t worry about it! I really wanted to talk about the Red Woman incident with him ..
Fujiwara: Sera: And so I kind of forced the meeting onto my brother ...
Fujiwara: p. 12
Fujiwara: Ran: I’m not going to tell anyone, so you can tell me …
Fujiwara: Ran: I won't be able to stop thinking about it ♥
Zenthisoror: *Otherwise I won't be able to stop thinking about it ;) (just neatening the English)

And some comments

Fujiwara: I like to think my translations are rather error-free, but like most people I'm only human, so mistakes can happen.

Fujiwara: Even more so when a translation is rushed, and, due to a miscommunication between us, for large parts of the most recent release, file 776, Knight ( took my spoiler translation, which I hadn't proofread thoroughly. I like to think that I would have found at least one of those mistakes if I had done so. ;)
Fujiwara: As such I am very sorry to say that there are indeed 2 mistakes in the file.
Fujiwara: If any of you think something is amiss with my translation at any point it would be more polite, not to mention more effective, if you'd just talk to me in person about it. I can usually be reached via PM or on the DCTP spoiler box
Zenthisoror: So to our eagle-eyed readers out there, we've had a discussion and between the two of us we think these translations are the most reasonable.

We hope that clears up the issue, and, as Fuji has said, feel free to contact either of us by PM in the DCTP forum or the spoiler box.


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Chekhov MacGuffin


Shuuichi is definitely Okiya, so this doesn't work.


It's Aoyama-sensei we talking about ^^;; Therefore the word «definitely» aren't accurate. I mean, back then everyone was absolutely sure that Jodie-san is Vermouth ~_^ Can't argue much about Subaru-san being Akai-san, it's 99% to be true, but still, it's not 100%, becuase Aoyama-sensei is a master of surprises ~_^

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I mean, back then everyone was absolutely sure that Jodie-san is Vermouth ~_^



Chekhov said she got that one right, too. its just her claim, but not hard to believe considered her reputation these day.

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File 877 spoilers




So, she's not that young. Conan said «Junior High student». But still, it doesn't help much. Since questions is still the same. But since she aren't looks like a first-grader, it makes «shrunken mother» theory looks more and more accurate.

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Agh. Two weeks break. Bourbon is certainly behind this.


Why the paranoides Haibara never found bug in Agasa home is beyond me (Evil Okiya planted them). Sera and this little girl can easily. Or is it just Conan just a bad spy. 

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