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Shuukichi Haneda Discussion Thread

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Because Shuichi is supposed to be dead. This information leaking to the BO would be very bad—that goes without saying.

What about Ran, Sonoko and Conan? They're not BO, well you could still say that they can accidentally leak the info to BO members around them, but wouldn't Akai just avoid all that by not telling her that he is alive?

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No, that's not what you were saying.

 

You're right—that's not what I said, in one of my prior posts. However, I no longer agree with the me from a week ago, or whenever I made that post. I now take the position that they should know that Conan is Shinichi (which was what I was arguing in a prior post I made, which led me to mention the thing that you took issue with), and that's it.

 

What about Ran, Sonoko and Conan? They're not BO, well you could still say that they can accidentally leak the info to BO members around them, but wouldn't Akai just avoid all that by not telling her that he is alive?

After Mystery Train, since she was targeted by Vermouth and Rei/Tooru/Bourbon, he must've decided to contact her.

 

Him doing this is very similar to Shinichi/Conan not telling Ran who he is. Both Shinichi/Conan and Shuichi/Subaru believe that Ran and Masumi should be contacted, on occasion, but they can't know about their specific situation.

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After Mystery Train, since she was targeted by Vermouth and Rei/Tooru/Bourbon, he must've decided to contact her.

 

Him doing this is very similar to Shinichi/Conan not telling Ran who he is. Both Shinichi/Conan and Shuichi/Subaru believe that Ran and Masumi should be contacted, on occasion, but they can't know about their specific situation.

Okay, I was just interested in how you would answer these questions, it certainly would make sense that Akai might want to contact her post-MT, since she would be extremely confused after seeing Scar Akai, and it certainly doesn't look like she's still confused about that, it would also provide a solution, while still simple, that is better than just Shuukichi being the middle brother and also the one talking to her, so for now I guess I'm jumping into this theory's side as well, we just have to wait for the final evidence right?

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That's what I'm saying—that's it.

 

You mean that it's never really been addressed whether they know or not.

 

You'd think—again, you'd think, not know—that Shuichi would've told the others about her appearance (Shiho's). It's still unconfirmed whether the FBI knows that Ai Haibara is Akemi's sister.

 

Well you're talking about Shuichi,one of the most secretive person in DC world,who didn't tell his collegues that he faked his death..Of course he didn't say that Ai=Shiho=Akemi's sister,we can be sure of that.

(when Jodie/James talked to Conan about Akai's past in the BO,they didn't even mention Shiho's name,they talked about her as a high ranked scientist...if they knew Ai was Shiho and Akemi's sister,they would have mentionned it in front of Conan,considering he's close to Ai). Not to mention that they never talked to Ai,or apologized to Ai for what happened to Akemi,which makes me believe they don't know anything.

 

Anyway Akai wants to take care of it personally(Akemi's revenge+the promise) so I guess it's logical for him to not tell anything about Ai's conditions to his collegues (that would probably endanger Ai considering that the FBI is watched by the BO,so it's better for Ai to not tell them her secret,and Akai knows that)

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Well you're talking about Shuichi,one of the most secretive person in DC world,who didn't tell his collegues that he faked his death..Of course he didn't say that Ai=Shiho=Akemi's sister,we can be sure of that.

(when Jodie/James talked to Conan about Akai's past in the BO,they didn't even mention Shiho's name,they talked about her as a high ranked scientist...if they knew Ai was Shiho and Akemi's sister,they would have mentionned it in front of Conan,considering he's close to Ai). Not to mention that they never talked to Ai,or apologized to Ai for what happened to Akemi,which makes me believe they don't know anything.

 

Anyway Akai wants to take care of it personally(Akemi's revenge+the promise) so I guess it's logical for him to not tell anything about Ai's conditions to his collegues (that would probably endanger Ai considering that the FBI is watched by the BO,so it's better for Ai to not tell them her secret,and Akai knows that)

 

I was saying they (I'm talking about Jodie and James, specifically—I think just them knowing wouldn't endanger anything... in spite of how dumbed down the FBI have been, they've been able to keep Kir's true allegiance secret... even when Shuichi and Shinichi/Conan announced their plan and the fact that Kir was CIA to a whole room of FBI agents when they could've just told Jodie and James... they actually made it more likely that the secret could slip out) should've figured out that Shinichi is Conan, at this point. However, with the dumbing down of every FBI character except Shuichi from the end of the Vermouth arc, I suppose them not figuring out his identity was a continuation of this dumbing down. 

 

As for Shiho/Ai... until it's confirmed otherwise, it's my personal headcanon that they know that the adult on Vermouth's dartboard and Ai Haibara are the same person, and maybe even that Shuichi gave them reports on Shiho's appearance while infiltrating the Organization. Yep—there's no evidence for it in the manga, and it can be claimed that Shuichi is secretive and that they think Sherry is just a seven-year-old.

 

Thing is, they haven't gotten a chance to talk to her because of just how uninvolved she's been since the end of the Vermouth arc. She wasn't at Haido Central Hospital. Plus, Shinichi/Conan is determined that she doesn't find out that Dai Moroboshi is Shuichi Akai.

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I was saying they (I'm talking about Jodie and James, specifically—I think just them knowing wouldn't endanger anything... in spite of how dumbed down the FBI have been, they've been able to keep Kir's true allegiance secret... even when Shuichi and Shinichi/Conan announced their plan and the fact that Kir was CIA to a whole room of FBI agents when they could've just told Jodie and James... they actually made it more likely that the secret could slip out) should've figured out that Shinichi is Conan, at this point. However, with the dumbing down of every FBI character except Shuichi from the end of the Vermouth arc, I suppose them not figuring out his identity was a continuation of this dumbing down. 

 

As for Shiho/Ai... until it's confirmed otherwise, it's my personal headcanon that they know that the adult on Vermouth's dartboard and Ai Haibara are the same person, and maybe even that Shuichi gave them reports on Shiho's appearance while infiltrating the Organization. Yep—there's no evidence for it in the manga, and it can be claimed that Shuichi is secretive and that they think Sherry is just a seven-year-old.

 

Thing is, they haven't gotten a chance to talk to her because of just how uninvolved she's been since the end of the Vermouth arc. She wasn't at Haido Central Hospital. Plus, Shinichi/Conan is determined that she doesn't find out that Dai Moroboshi is Shuichi Akai.

Come on,she was in the center of the Bourbon arc(since Jodie said she was Bourbon's target),she also met the FBI agents several times (during the Rena mizunashi arc,and also in the Shrine case),not to mention that they know where she lives (they are not limited to the Haido Central hospital,they can move to see her XDXD) so if they knew who she really is,they would have told her something about Akemi's death(as I said apologies,or some kind of support since the FBI is kinda responsible of her death).

 

The fact that they still call her Ai or Sherry(because Vermouth called her that way) means they don't know her real name....As you said there is no evidence to support your theory so for now I'll stay with the idea that they don't know anything.

 

Btw an adult being turned into a child is a difficult concept to begin with,this is something unusual,not natural,so it's would be difficult for them to make that link,unless they know personally the victim or have sme proof (Akai made the link because he knew Ai/Shiho,and he could deduce that Shinichi=Conan by observing him closely) so it would be normal for the FBI to not make that connection.

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Come on,she was in the center of the Bourbon arc(since Jodie said she was Bourbon's target),she also met the FBI agents several times (during the Rena mizunashi arc,and also in the Shrine case),not to mention that they know where she lives (they are not limited to the Haido Central hospital,they can move to see her XDXD) so if they knew who she really is,they would have told her something about Akemi's death(as I said apologies,or some kind of support since the FBI is kinda responsible of her death).

 

Center? Not really. Rei/Tooru and Shuichi/Subaru, as well as Masumi, were the focus characters of the arc.

 

She's gotten three chances to interact with Jodie (Black Impact, A Fake Patient, Foreign Talent Suspect, Teito Bank Heist and A Shrine to Remember) since she rejected the witness protection program. During those two meetings, Jodie and Shinichi/Conan were focused on what was going on. In Black Impact, she didn't get a moment alone with Shiho/Ai—they were in the car together after Jodie showed up, and that was it, after Jodie and Shinichi/Conan ran to stop the assassination. In A Fake Patient, Jodie was there to talk with Shinichi/Conan—she seemed to barely acknowledge her, while she was at Agasa's house, giving them the info about Ethan Hondo. In Foreign Talent Suspect, Andre was the main focus of attention. In Teito Bank Heist, Jodie was distracted by Scar Akai. In a Shrine to Remember, she leaves Shinichi/Conan and Jodie alone, and doesn't really approach her—or vice versa—including the murder investigation.

 

So, no—they haven't gotten the chance. Considering how long Gosho puts things on the back burner, nowadays, it wouldn't surprise me.

 

If there are apologies to be made, Andre and Shuichi will be giving them.

 

...we just have to wait for the final evidence right?

The middle brother's sleeve from Page 16 of File 860 was recolored for the release of Volume 81:

 

http://i.imgur.com/k2PsKvg.jpg

 

As you can see, it looks more like the sleeve of the shirt that Shuichi/Subaru was wearing during Silent Clash (File 700–File 704/Episode 578–Episode 581) than the sleeve of Shukichi's shogi outfit (File 899–File 902/Episode 785–Episode 786). Shuichi's/Subaru's shirt has a more visible texture, and is a lighter color—just like the middle brother's sleeve does.

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Center? Not really. Rei/Tooru and Shuichi/Subaru, as well as Masumi, were the focus characters of the arc.

 

She's gotten three chances to interact with Jodie (Black Impact, A Fake Patient, Foreign Talent Suspect, Teito Bank Heist and A Shrine to Remember) since she rejected the witness protection program. During those two meetings, Jodie and Shinichi/Conan were focused on what was going on. In Black Impact, she didn't get a moment alone with Shiho/Ai—they were in the car together after Jodie showed up, and that was it, after Jodie and Shinichi/Conan ran to stop the assassination. In A Fake Patient, Jodie was there to talk with Shinichi/Conan—she seemed to barely acknowledge her, while she was at Agasa's house, giving them the info about Ethan Hondo. In Foreign Talent Suspect, Andre was the main focus of attention. In Teito Bank Heist, Jodie was distracted by Scar Akai. In a Shrine to Remember, she leaves Shinichi/Conan and Jodie alone, and doesn't really approach her—or vice versa—including the murder investigation.

 

So, no—they haven't gotten the chance. Considering how long Gosho puts things on the back burner, nowadays, it wouldn't surprise me.

 

If there are apologies to be made, Andre and Shuichi will be giving them.

Well the Bourbon arc started because Bourbon was supposedly looking for Sherry,then Okiya,Sera and Amuro appared,each of them were interested on Ai,until we get the Mystery train case,that lead to Sherry's fake death...Soooo yeah I think she was at the center of this arc,even if she didn't act herself that much(but she tried to take off Okiya's scarf,and was the first one to make the link between Okiya and Akai),and the other characters were looking for her for different reasons(btw we still don't know why Sera was interested on Ai).

it was kinda the same thing during the Vermouth Arc,the difference was that in the Bourbon arc Conan didn't tell her anything about the danger,while during the Vermouth arc she knew someone was hunting her(which is why she was more active)

 

 

The FBI know where she lives and if they really knew the truth,they would have talked to her,even if they are focused on something else,Gosho could have made a small moment between Jodie and Ai exchanging words,it wouldn't have taken many pages.The fact that they are focused on another topic doesn't mean they can't talk together (for example there was the small discussion between Camel and Jodie talking about Camel's mistake that lead to Akemi's death,or when Akai's past is revealed to Conan while there are focused on Rena)...just a few bubbles is enough to put things in place...

 

There were many occasions to talk to her,and Gosho could have created many other occasions(considering that the FBI know where Ai lives,and can contact her anytime ),but he didn't.

You're talking about Akai and Camel who should apologize,but this is the responsibility of the whole FBI(including James who is their boss) I think Ai should have official apologies from them.Camel and Akai were not working alone,but for the FBI, so any action they make involves the FBI and their image.

btw Camel never asked to meet Ai,he never talked to her,which confirm he doesn't know who she is...remember he really felt guilty about Akemi's death so I guess he would try to apologize to her sister...

 

Anyway until you find me a  good proof that the FBI knows Ai's real identity,I will stick with the idea that they don't.Remember we recently learnt that Conan didn't know Sera was Akai's sister,while he should have known for a long time,so for me as long as it's not explicitly written in the manga,then it's just a theory...

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The middle brother's sleeve from Page 16 of File 860 was recolored for the release of Volume 81:

 

http://i.imgur.com/k2PsKvg.jpg

 

As you can see, it looks more like the sleeve of the shirt that Shuichi/Subaru was wearing during Silent Clash (File 700–File 704/Episode 578–Episode 581) than the sleeve of Shukichi's shogi outfit (File 899–File 902/Episode 785–Episode 786). Shuichi's/Subaru's shirt has a more visible texture, and is a lighter color—just like the middle brother's sleeve does.

I don't really think that counts as an ultimate evidence, remember that Files 700-704 was released like 5 years ago? It might be because the quality of the art wasn't like it is today, or maybe Gosho didn't pay too much attention when drawing it, so I wouldn't use that as a main argument, we need something that completely doesn't make sense if Shuukichi is the one talking to her, the better argument for me would be that the one talking to Masumi isn't telling her his location, while Shuukichi is doing something important(from his perspective at least) it wouldn't really make sense for him to not tell her that, unless he's just that type of person, if it was Akai then it would make more sense, since it's not safe for her to know that he is Subaru right now. 

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Remember we recently learnt that Conan didn't know Sera was Akai's sister,while he should have known for a long time,so for me as long as it's not explicitly written in the manga,then it's just a theory...

Except that this actually shows that characters will wait nearly 200 Files to make a connection/do something. Gosho could've put Shinichi/Conan thinking that Masumi is Shuichi's sister in any other chapter after Mystery Train, just like he could've put a Shiho/Ai and Jodie scene in a chapter—except he didn't, which means he could easily be holding off on it.

 

Anyway until you find me a  good proof that the FBI knows Ai's real identity,I will stick with the idea that they don't.

There isn't proof—either stance is merely based on interpretation of what little we've got. I say they could make the connection between the woman on Vermouth's dartboard, you say they've waited too long to approach her for them to know.

 

One of my main points in my initial post was that the FBI characters (Jodie and James, in particular) except Shuichi have been dumbed down in intelligence since the end of the Vermouth arc—I brought up them not figuring out that Conan is Shinichi as an example of this, leading to me bringing up my assumption that they knew that Shiho is Ai, and thus, Sherry.

 

I don't really think that counts as an ultimate evidence, remember that Files 700-704 was released like 5 years ago? It might be because the quality of the art wasn't like it is today, or maybe Gosho didn't pay too much attention when drawing it, so I wouldn't use that as a main argument, we need something that completely doesn't make sense if Shuukichi is the one talking to her, the better argument for me would be that the one talking to Masumi isn't telling her his location, while Shuukichi is doing something important(from his perspective at least) it wouldn't really make sense for him to not tell her that, unless he's just that type of person, if it was Akai then it would make more sense, since it's not safe for her to know that he is Subaru right now. 

Gosho showed us the sleeve and then redrew it for the Volume release—why show it if it's not a clue? He could've done what the anime adaption of said file did and removed the sleeve from view so that we'd only see the hand—except he didn't. 

 

The quality isn't really that different—if you compare Volume releases of File 702, File 860 and File 899, the middle brother's sleeve looks more like Shuichi's/Subaru's sleeve from 702 than Shukichi's shogi outfit from 899. If 702 was drawn at a time when Gosho was drawing the Vermouth arc, then I could accept the quality argument. But a 2009 File? Nope.

 

That is a better argument, but you can just say that Shukichi was simply doing to Masumi what he did to Yumi. The sleeve, on the other hand, reminds me of the Jodie is not Vermouth hints (File 343, for example, with the irregular borders on the photos). Some may think that's Shukichi's shogi sleeve, but, actually it's from an outfit that we haven't seen Shuichi/Subaru wear since File 704 (Though if this is his sleeve, he'd be wearing it during File 860), just like people thought the fact that Jodie had pictures that only Vermouth would take, but, actually, they were photos of the photos.

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Of course Shinichi/Conan doesn't reveal his identity—everyone who now knows the truth, except Agasa, had to figure it out on their own—he's paranoid enough not to tell anyone in the FBI... though the fault is on Jodie and James for not making the connection, at this point. After all, they know that Ai Haibara is Sherry—they know that she shrunk. Just basic knowledge about Shinichi Kudo on either of their parts would give them an explanation as to why Conan Edogawa is so smart, and why he, a seven-year-old, is going after the BO.

 

The thing about the Bourbon arc was that the protagonists who know about and are fighting the BO were keeping info from each other, including info that might've been more helpful if it wasn't hidden. 

 

When you think about it, all Masumi has done, since she arrived, has brought questions—most of these still remain unanswered. She didn't play much of a role in Mystery Train or any at all in Scarlet Showdown. Plus, according to Gosho, she doesn't know about the BO. In other words, the effect she's had so far hasn't warranted Shuichi/Subaru telling Shinichi/Conan—and that's ignoring that Shinichi/Conan has made the connection, himself. Just as Shinichi/Conan tries to keep those close to him out of the loop, Shuichi/Subaru has done the same. Since he didn't tell Shinichi/Conan about his quite frankly vital suspicions that Bourbon was a spy much earlier, why would he have reason to bring his family into this? He doesn't know about MG; Shukichi is probably out of the loop, too, just as much as Masumi.

 

It's not a lack of trust, in respect to his family—its the fact that his family has little relevance (for now) and it's a Bourbon arc precedent.

 

And I agree that it might be their little concern about their family relatives, but the question is that they both know the capabilities of the other. Meaning that they can trust each other and reveal themselves fully to the other, since it would help them to investigate more thoroughly and make quicker connections. Also about the fact that the FBI have not yet connected Conan to Shinichi like they did with Haibara is because Gosho-sama want it so, therefore there are not much things we can talk about here..

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the question is that they both know the capabilities of the other. Meaning that they can trust each other and reveal themselves fully to the other, since it would help them to investigate more thoroughly and make quicker connections.

Yes, it certainly would help them.. but they don't. Again, it's a Bourbon arc precedent. Another problem was that Subaru was hinted to be Bourbon from the moment he appeared in File 622/Episode 509 until just before the climax of Mystery Train (File 822/Episode 703). He and Shinichi/Conan couldn't just be shown interacting, in the way you say, because Gosho didn't want to reveal Subaru was actually Shuichi until a climax, a.k.a. Scarlet Showdown (between File 825/Episode 705 and File 893/Episode 780—between Mystery Train and Scarlet Showdown—he appeared once). The only times Shuichi/Subaru and Shinichi/Conan interacted with each others as partners in the fight against the BO—and its just implied—was before Mystery Train, and before Scarlet Showdown. Other than those two ocurrences, any interaction between them as partners in the fight against the BO is pure speculation—we have no idea.

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Yes, it certainly would help them.. but they don't. Again, it's a Bourbon arc precedent. Another problem was that Subaru was hinted to be Bourbon from the moment he appeared in File 622/Episode 509 until just before the climax of Mystery Train (File 822/Episode 703). He and Shinichi/Conan couldn't just be shown interacting, in the way you say, because Gosho didn't want to reveal Subaru was actually Shuichi until a climax, a.k.a. Scarlet Showdown (between File 825/Episode 705 and File 893/Episode 780—between Mystery Train and Scarlet Showdown—he appeared once). The only times Shuichi/Subaru and Shinichi/Conan interacted with each others as partners in the fight against the BO—and its just implied—was before Mystery Train, and before Scarlet Showdown. Other than those two ocurrences, any interaction between them as partners in the fight against the BO is pure speculation—we have no idea.

 

I agree on everything you say, as of the upcoming fights against the BO. I think that they would end up having to work together in order to end up the hatred and vengeance that lies deep within Bourbon so that he also would help them, and story-wise I guess it would be Shuu vs. Gin at the end while Conan/Shinichi Vs. Anokata if that is how Gosho is planning it to be.

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I think that they would end up having to work together in order to end up the hatred and vengeance that lies deep within Bourbon so that he also would help them.

They just need to make sure he continues to recognize that turning on them due to Shuichi would ruin everything.

 

Story-wise I guess it would be Shuu vs. Gin at the end while Conan/Shinichi Vs. Anokata if that is how Gosho is planning it to be.

That probably is what he has in mind.

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They just need to make sure he continues to recognize that turning on them due to Shuichi would ruin everything.

 

 

That is why I think Amuro would be too smart to ruin Shinichi's plan, or about to unknowingly but stopped at the last second by non other than Shuu..

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Akai is lefthanded. I have heard that when twins, where one is lefthanded is more comment than an 'alone-born', who is lefthanded. And it also possible for fraternal twins, where one is lefthanded and the other is righthanded. So do you think that maybe Akai and the second-oldest Brother might be fraternal twins?

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Akai is lefthanded. I have heard that when twins, where one is lefthanded is more comment than an 'alone-born', who is lefthanded. And it also possible for fraternal twins, where one is lefthanded and the other is righthanded. So do you think that maybe Akai and the second-oldest Brother might be fraternal twins?

 

Lol, I have always thought of that. But there is no character who would justified being Shuu's twin XD ..

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If Shukichi is the middle brother, then maybe he heard about Conan from Akai (Like Haibara learned of Conan from Akemi). Because it seemed like he trusted Conan's detective skills, when they met for the first time. I have posted before a theory about Akai and the middle brother being twins, and if Shukichi is the middle Brother, then I think it's very likely that they could be twins, as they both share a kanji for Shu in their given names, and ichi in Shuichi means 'one'. It could mean that Akai was the oldest.

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If Shukichi is the middle brother, then maybe he heard about Conan from Akai (Like Haibara learned of Conan from Akemi). Because it seemed like he trusted Conan's detective skills, when they met for the first time. I have posted before a theory about Akai and the middle brother being twins, and if Shukichi is the middle Brother, then I think it's very likely that they could be twins, as they both share a kanji for Shu in their given names, and ichi in Shuichi means 'one'. It could mean that Akai was the oldest.

I don't think so, rather, Shuukichi probably saw young Shinichi back when Shinichi and Ran met Sera, and since he has a really good memory, he could tell that Conan is Shinichi.

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If Shukichi is the middle brother, then maybe he heard about Conan from Akai (Like Haibara learned of Conan from Akemi).

Shuukichi probably saw young Shinichi back when Shinichi and Ran met Sera, and since he has a really good memory, he could tell that Conan is Shinichi.

 

I'd say these are both possible, but I'd also say Shukichi being at the first meeting between Shinichi, Ran and Masumi is more likely.

 

If Ran's memories are stirred by MG, then maybe she saw Shukichi, as well—they haven't interacted, since he was introduced—Shinichi most likely just heard the name "Mary" and never saw Shukichi and his and Masumi's mother.

 

Shuichi telling Shukichi about Shinichi/Conan is certainly possible, given that he (if he is the one in contact with Masumi) likely gave an explanation about his experience with Shinichi/Conan to her in the text at the end of File 861—there's no reason he couldn't have done the same with Shukichi, earlier.

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I'd say these are both possible, but I'd also say Shukichi being at the first meeting between Shinichi, Ran and Masumi is more likely.

 

If Ran's memories are stirred by MG, then maybe she saw Shukichi, as well—they haven't interacted, since he was introduced—Shinichi most likely just heard the name "Mary" and never saw Shukichi and his and Masumi's mother.

 

Shuichi telling Shukichi about Shinichi/Conan is certainly possible, given that he (if he is the one in contact with Masumi) likely gave an explanation about his experience with Shinichi/Conan to her in the text at the end of File 861—there's no reason he couldn't have done the same with Shukichi, earlier.

That is true, but I feel like Shuukichi wouldn't have had that much trust in Conan if he was only told of him by Akai.

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And I agree that it might be their little concern about their family relatives, but the question is that they both know the capabilities of the other. Meaning that they can trust each other and reveal themselves fully to the other, since it would help them to investigate more thoroughly and make quicker connections. Also about the fact that the FBI have not yet connected Conan to Shinichi like they did with Haibara is because Gosho-sama want it so, therefore there are not much things we can talk about here..

Akai knows that shinichi had shrunk into conan

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He heavily assumes so, but Shuu have no evidence to support his claim even if he is almost certain Conan is Shinichi.

 

He caught Conan using the bowtie to call as Shinichi in Chapter 813, Yuusaku's Cold Case.

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