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Who's better off with Shinichi? Haibara Ai or Ran??


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Would only like to comment on these specific 3 quotes:

 

We will never know until the ending about how will those characters change. Ran may well start being involved in the Black Organization story later, at the final stage and, we don't know how good she would be in fighting alongside Shinichi. Maybe, better than people think.

 

Also, who knows, it's not a sure thing he will start being focused on global mafias, maybe he WILL return to investigate "normal" murders. A life of a global anti-mafia fighter is tough, we don't know whether he will make such an extreme decision, as to dedicate HIS WHOLE LIFE to working with the FBI.

 

Also, since Shinichi wouldn't probably be the same after the story ends, as you say, how do we know he won't change for the better due to the experience and won't start appreciating other things and people (Ran including) more than before, since he will be more experienced and serious now, not just a somehow careless teenager?

Ran's involvement is possible, but her personality is set. Even if she were to to get involved she would never be the one to initiate anything, all she could do if anything, is do whatever Shinichi tells her to do. Normally that would be enough but against the BO and espicially in the end, there has to be moments where Shinichi is not there. The difference between Haibara and Ran is that Haibara can be trusted with the safety of others, she can be trusted to make decisions in life or death situations. Although Haibara does get intimidated around the BO her life and all her experiences with them makes her a lot more dependable than Ran could ever be

 

Nt necessarily working for the FBI, but as the story progresses he is getting more involved with higher ranking government agencies. And for him justice will always come first no matter what, before his own life, and i feel it is logical to assume that after seeing just how bad criminals can get, he won't be satisfied with just sitting back and allow criminal syndicated to operate.

 

Your last point is possible but highly unlikely, him changing for the better doesn't mean he would start appreciating Ran more. If anything he is taking Haibara for granted. No matter how much things may change afterwards, one thing will always be the same, he will always be a detective. He will never stop chasing criminals and his work will always come first, the change i was referring to is a change of his perception of justice. He needs to grow out of his naive thinking where everyone survives and all the bad guys are caught, he has never lost anyone and sooner or later he will and sure that will lead to him appreciating people more, but  he will never quit chasing down the biggest evil he can find. That is why the people closest to him, should be the people he needs by his side the most. 

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I'm also disappointed that Aoyama didn't give more attention to Ran. Reminds me a lot of how Akira Toriyama is treating Gohan from Dragon Ball.

 

How can you say that Ran wouldn't have the strength to fight along with Shinichi ? Who knows, anything could happen.

 

I also think that Shinichi is only working with the FBI so that he can chase the BO to get his normal body back and go to his normal life. It's obvious that he'll have changed, but I definitely don't see him chasing global mafias.

It has been well established that Ran doesn't have the mental or emotional capacity to fight the BO. She is scared of ghosts for god's sakes. Every act of bravery she's ever done was either because that is what Shinichi would do, or because it was the 'right thing to do' (saving Haibara from Vermouth, the most random and confusing scene of the series). Again all of this can be attributed to Gosho not developing her character well, say if in the fight against the BO she is faced with an ordeal that Shinichi can not help her with, she wouldn't know how to act, she is a normal teenager after all. You can see throughout the series the difference between Haibara and Ran when it comes to Shinichi's work. Haibara is always asking him questions providing clues hell she is always by his side whenever he is working and she can always keep up with him. Ran is always in the background with no real importance, and if she can not keep up with him intellectually on normal cases, how do you expect her to hold her own against the BO. And by the way the BO is a global mafia, and we are talking about a guy who happened to come across the car of a deadly assassin and decided to break in to track him. He does that because his sense of justice is just too strong. Picture this, months after the BO is been taken down, Shinichi runs into Jodie or Akai while they are on a case, would he help them? 

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Frankly I think Ran is underestimated by both the cast and fandom.

 

Take for instance the fear that telling her the truth will cause definite armageddon.  I call bull on it, but I'll concede upfront that my reasoning is a double-edged sword in that it does validate the claim that she can't keep the secret from the Organization.

 

The Desperate Revival (Volume 25-26 in the manga, and episodes 188-193 of the anime).  She definitely tips Conan off by panicking about the idea of them bathing together and later by asking to give her blood to save him from death, but arguably that situation was serious enough to negate the importance of secrecy.

 

Regardless lets look near the end of Episode 189 or beginning portion of Volume 26.  Conan is laying wide awake in the hospital at night recalling how Agasa said not to tell anyone, including Ran and Heiji mentioning that Ran is just keeping a distance so as not to push him into coming clean.  Plus the manga has him recalling the parting words of his parents from Episode 96/Volume 14, both suggesting that Ran might still be onto him.

 

More importantly he recalls an interaction from Episode 174/Volume 23 where during their time on a ship where Ran treated him more like her 17 year old friend rather than a 7 year old boy.  In other words, she didn't just develop the suspicion at the beginning of the Desperate Revival, she's remained suspicious since the last time she confronted him and was able to hide that suspicion for at least 92 episodes/10 Volumes.  Pretty impressive for a girl who people consider if not outright calling her stupid and weak, especially when Conan would normally pick up on details like that.

 

And if Agasa, Ai, Heiji and the other secret keeping allies were to help her adjust to the situation rather than acting against her, she could easily be elevated to a valuable ally.

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On 4/26/2016 at 0:28 PM, SamKel. said:

It has been well established that Ran doesn't have the mental or emotional capacity to fight the BO. She is scared of ghosts for god's sakes. Every act of bravery she's ever done was either because that is what Shinichi would do, or because it was the 'right thing to do' (saving Haibara from Vermouth, the most random and confusing scene of the series). Again all of this can be attributed to Gosho not developing her character well, say if in the fight against the BO she is faced with an ordeal that Shinichi can not help her with, she wouldn't know how to act, she is a normal teenager after all. You can see throughout the series the difference between Haibara and Ran when it comes to Shinichi's work. Haibara is always asking him questions providing clues hell she is always by his side whenever he is working and she can always keep up with him. Ran is always in the background with no real importance, and if she can not keep up with him intellectually on normal cases, how do you expect her to hold her own against the BO. And by the way the BO is a global mafia, and we are talking about a guy who happened to come across the car of a deadly assassin and decided to break in to track him. He does that because his sense of justice is just too strong. Picture this, months after the BO is been taken down, Shinichi runs into Jodie or Akai while they are on a case, would he help them? 

Hm...Firstly,I'm gonna apologize if I said/typed something wrong, Please do fix any inconsistency I'm in a bad mood so sorry if I'm rude but seriously why is Ran saving Ai is confusing? And why on earth are you doubting about her sense of justice? She has way more sense of justice than Haibara, who seems to be so selfish,she only cares for the people she knows and love, while Ran would happily do that for anyone...protecting,I mean...Sorry I can't give any example here since I'm too tired to think right now...but I think that Vermouth is more than enough to prove her sense of justice...Just like Antiyonder have stated,with the list of eps and stuff...I tried my best to read all the posts but gosh, its like endless! Impossible to read everything in one day read the first 20+ and 3 recent pages,last I can remember is about unicorns and hair, whatever... And about the chemistry stuff, eveyone have their own opinion on the matter, and its unfair to say that one's opinion is better than the other,I mean logical ones...okay,I'm starting to write nonsense,sorry but I'm a hardcore SHINRAN fan! And it really gets on my nerve,no offense guys, if someone says stuff like 'Ran can't keep up with Shinichi' or 'Ran and Shinichi have nothing in common',keeping up with one's line of work doesn't really matter in relationships,its an obvious fact and you see(This is a random 'you' hihi) Shinichi and Ran managed to be friends for at least 10 years,how do you think they did it, while have 'nothing' in common, Even though they have different interests, but they have the same point of view, and they respect each others interests,willing to tolerate,care for each other,this is enough in a relationship...And Ran is supportive of Shinichi's work, like I said earlier, 'keeping up' isn't necessary...hm..I reached my limit now, too tired to continue,so I'll come back later and continue?

P.s: this post is filled with my random views and it might not make any sense cause I'm too tired to re-read so...

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15 hours ago, Ayuna Yume said:

Hm...Firstly,I'm gonna apologize if I said/typed something wrong, Please do fix any inconsistency I'm in a bad mood so sorry if I'm rude but seriously why is Ran saving Ai is confusing? And why on earth are you doubting about her sense of justice? She has way more sense of justice than Haibara, who seems to be so selfish,she only cares for the people she knows and love, while Ran would happily do that for anyone...protecting,I mean...Sorry I can't give any example here since I'm too tired to think right now...but I think that Vermouth is more than enough to prove her sense of justice...Just like Antiyonder have stated,with the list of eps and stuff...I tried my best to read all the posts but gosh, its like endless! Impossible to read everything in one day read the first 20+ and 3 recent pages,last I can remember is about unicorns and hair, whatever... And about the chemistry stuff, eveyone have their own opinion on the matter, and its unfair to say that one's opinion is better than the other,I mean logical ones...okay,I'm starting to write nonsense,sorry but I'm a hardcore SHINRAN fan! And it really gets on my nerve,no offense guys, if someone says stuff like 'Ran can't keep up with Shinichi' or 'Ran and Shinichi have nothing in common',keeping up with one's line of work doesn't really matter in relationships,its an obvious fact and you see(This is a random 'you' hihi) Shinichi and Ran managed to be friends for at least 10 years,how do you think they did it, while have 'nothing' in common, Even though they have different interests, but they have the same point of view, and they respect each others interests,willing to tolerate,care for each other,this is enough in a relationship...And Ran is supportive of Shinichi's work, like I said earlier, 'keeping up' isn't necessary...hm..I reached my limit now, too tired to continue,so I'll come back later and continue?

P.s: this post is filled with my random views and it might not make any sense cause I'm too tired to re-read so...

Here is why i think Ran saving Haibara is a mistake. I may be wrong but what i remember is that Ran was in Jodie's house and she saw Shinichi's picture in the bathroom. So she does the only logical thing there is to do, and jump into the trunk of ber car?? How does that make sense. There are literallly a hundred better ways to go from there. The scene also belittled Vermouth's evilness. She is portrayed as an evil sadistic woman right? So why wouldn't she just kill Ran and then Haibara. That scene for me did no one in the series any good. It proved the the problem i have with ShinRan. Because yea she may have saved Haibara, but how stupid of a decision was that? I think Gosho realized that his second main character had no role in the actual storyline and decided to just throw her in there. Thankfully we have never seen her get involved ever again. 

 

You are right that she supports him on his work. Her sense of justice is strong, she's kind and at times very brave. But honestly the same can be said about Kazuha for example. Shinichi is a detective. A reckless, rash and naive detective. He keeps getting himself invilved with more and more dangerous people and he is not prepared for it. He is working with the FBI and CIA and the special police. His life is going to keep getting more dangerous. And if there is one thing we learnt about him, it's that cases will always come first. He is not in need of a lover, he needs a partner. Someone who knows how hard life can be because there eill come a time when his recklessness will get the better of him. That's when he needs a patner to help him through it. Usually for a couple to not be involved in each other's work is fine but not in this case. He needs a partner. An argument could be made that why not have both. But i personally feel like it would be unfair to Ran. They have a lot if similarities. They have been friends for ten years. But honestly we have seen no indication that they know each other truly. There similaroties are the foundation of their friendship but i dont think they would be enough for a relationship. After all, they don't cmoliment each other's flaws. She treats him as this perfect angel and he does the same. So what happens when things go wrong? They don't even see the flaws in each other. She can't humble him, she can't assist him in his work, and she doesn't seem to be ready for the life he is leading. 

 

Honestly the story between Haibara and Conan writes itself. The foundations are there for the greates story that can be told. It is a shame that the character of Haibara with all her background is not being utilized more. The reaosns i gave above where from a fan's pov. But from a storytelling stand point, you can't make a childhood love story as slow paced and bland as it is and expect it to make sense after 20 years. Haibara and Conan have the dynamic and the chemistry. Which may not seem important to you, but for a viewer that is all that matters. 

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On 9/11/2016 at 1:40 PM, SamKel. said:

Here is why i think Ran saving Haibara is a mistake. I may be wrong but what i remember is that Ran was in Jodie's house and she saw Shinichi's picture in the bathroom. So she does the only logical thing there is to do, and jump into the trunk of ber car?? How does that make sense. There are literallly a hundred better ways to go from there. The scene also belittled Vermouth's evilness. She is portrayed as an evil sadistic woman right? So why wouldn't she just kill Ran and then Haibara. That scene for me did no one in the series any good. It proved the the problem i have with ShinRan. Because yea she may have saved Haibara, but how stupid of a decision was that? I think Gosho realized that his second main character had no role in the actual storyline and decided to just throw her in there. Thankfully we have never seen her get involved ever again. 

 

You are right that she supports him on his work. Her sense of justice is strong, she's kind and at times very brave. But honestly the same can be said about Kazuha for example. Shinichi is a detective. A reckless, rash and naive detective. He keeps getting himself invilved with more and more dangerous people and he is not prepared for it. He is working with the FBI and CIA and the special police. His life is going to keep getting more dangerous. And if there is one thing we learnt about him, it's that cases will always come first. He is not in need of a lover, he needs a partner. Someone who knows how hard life can be because there eill come a time when his recklessness will get the better of him. That's when he needs a patner to help him through it. Usually for a couple to not be involved in each other's work is fine but not in this case. He needs a partner. An argument could be made that why not have both. But i personally feel like it would be unfair to Ran. They have a lot if similarities. They have been friends for ten years. But honestly we have seen no indication that they know each other truly. There similaroties are the foundation of their friendship but i dont think they would be enough for a relationship. After all, they don't cmoliment each other's flaws. She treats him as this perfect angel and he does the same. So what happens when things go wrong? They don't even see the flaws in each other. She can't humble him, she can't assist him in his work, and she doesn't seem to be ready for the life he is leading. 

 

Honestly the story between Haibara and Conan writes itself. The foundations are there for the greates story that can be told. It is a shame that the character of Haibara with all her background is not being utilized more. The reaosns i gave above where from a fan's pov. But from a storytelling stand point, you can't make a childhood love story as slow paced and bland as it is and expect it to make sense after 20 years. Haibara and Conan have the dynamic and the chemistry. Which may not seem important to you, but for a viewer that is all that matters. 

I don't know when Kazuha gets in the picture but yeah, she share the same personality with Ran...Is it related?Never mind,even though I know Haibara will be a great partner in his work, scientist and detective share the same principle after all, and everything you said, plus if we compare, Haibara will be a better partner for Shinichi because of her sharp intellect than Ran, I just can't see them as a couple. Both of them are egoist, and gosh, I can't imagine if they have a fight as couple...and how long it will last, Meanwhile, Ran & Shinichi's longest fight is a week,only a week and the whole week Shinichi doesn't even realize he's in a fight because he got hooked up with a case in an OVA,a case of Shinichi back in middle school, but as soon as he aware(sorry for my vocabulary) they immediately make up just because of a song,how cute that is...I know that OVAs aren't canon but I'm just giving an example so it doesn't really matter,if it is for you then you can simply toss it away hihi 

And I have to disagree with you that they don't see each other's flaws,because they have made many comments on each other's flaws throughout the series,for example, Shinichi has commented on how Ran uses her karate to get whatever she wants,and Ran did it too many times I'm sure you have noticed, but they just accept it and even love it, that's what true relationship needs...Not hating every single flaws you have,tolerance is a key to a long-lasting relationship without a doubt...And if you love someone with all your heart,you have to accept them for who they are, not only just the perfect side..

Lastly, I can't see the chemistry that you said in ConAi like I do in ShinRan, ConAi can be a great partner and all,but not as lovers,in my view that is...they differ too much while having many similarities,its just so damn weird for me...and I don't think that Shinichi will ever change his heart,ever...And you can't do anything about a writer's choice because we write what we think are right, yes we, because I'm a soon-to-be a novelist,a romance novelist,that's why this topic interest me so very much hihi And of course,same goes to the Vermouth arc.The way you say it made me think too, maybe Ran was stalking her and when she saw Conan as Ai entering her car,she got suspicious?Wait,another thing, Ran can't humble him?Okay, first of all, his arrogant personality and way-too-handsome-figure for a man, Ouch! ,is the thing that made ME fall for him hihi,ok let's get back to the topic, hm..I think if anyone can 'tame' him, it should be Ran, since she have his heart and while willing to do whatever he says, she still can make him surrender too, besides, I don't think he have to be any humble,that's his significant personality,
*ARGH! freaking out! 'Fangirl'ing overload,faints* Ignore the last line...

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7 hours ago, Ayuna Yume said:

I don't know when Kazuha gets in the picture but yeah, she share the same personality with Ran...Is it related?Never mind,even though I know Haibara will be a great partner in his work, scientist and detective share the same principle after all, and everything you said, plus if we compare, Haibara will be a better partner for Shinichi because of her sharp intellect than Ran, I just can't see them as a couple. Both of them are egoist, and gosh, I can't imagine if they have a fight as couple...and how long it will last, Meanwhile, Ran & Shinichi's longest fight is a week,only a week and the whole week Shinichi doesn't even realize he's in a fight because he got hooked up with a case in an OVA,a case of Shinichi back in middle school, but as soon as he aware(sorry for my vocabulary) they immediately make up just because of a song,how cute that is...I know that OVAs aren't canon but I'm just giving an example so it doesn't really matter,if it is for you then you can simply toss it away hihi 

And I have to disagree with you that they don't see each other's flaws,because they have made many comments on each other's flaws throughout the series,for example, Shinichi has commented on how Ran uses her karate to get whatever she wants,and Ran did it too many times I'm sure you have noticed, but they just accept it and even love it, that's what true relationship needs...Not hating every single flaws you have,tolerance is a key to a long-lasting relationship without a doubt...And if you love someone with all your heart,you have to accept them for who they are, not only just the perfect side..

Lastly, I can't see the chemistry that you said in ConAi like I do in ShinRan, ConAi can be a great partner and all,but not as lovers,in my view that is...they differ too much while having many similarities,its just so damn weird for me...and I don't think that Shinichi will ever change his heart,ever...And you can't do anything about a writer's choice because we write what we think are right, yes we, because I'm a soon-to-be a novelist,a romance novelist,that's why this topic interest me so very much hihi And of course,same goes to the Vermouth arc.The way you say it made me think too, maybe Ran was stalking her and when she saw Conan as Ai entering her car,she got suspicious?Wait,another thing, Ran can't humble him?Okay, first of all, his arrogant personality and way-too-handsome-figure for a man, Ouch! ,is the thing that made ME fall for him hihi,ok let's get back to the topic, hm..I think if anyone can 'tame' him, it should be Ran, since she have his heart and while willing to do whatever he says, she still can make him surrender too, besides, I don't think he have to be any humble,that's his significant personality,
*ARGH! freaking out! 'Fangirl'ing overload,faints* Ignore the last line...

The reason i mentioned Kazuha is because the fact that when you have a relationship that has been building up for 20 years and of the teo people invilved can be subtituted by someone else is huge red flag. Kazuha and Ran are the same, so would it work if Shinichi started loving Kazuha? This is a mistake in Ran's character, she is the second main character and has nothing unique to add to the story. 

 

The reason He is better off with Haibara than Ran is because like you said she is the better partner. You mentioned that its cute how Shinichi and Ran made up over a song. Which is true, but you have to consider the life he is leading. The way he lives is dangerous, things are rarely ever cute. Besides, when looking at the problems he is facing now and the problems he may face in the future, it's wrong to assume how Shinichi and Ran will handle it by looking at how they got over an argument that was resilved by a song. What happens when there is another case where he has to leave? What if he starts working with the FBI? She can't be his partner, and she can't help him so is she supposed to just wait? And more importantly, the fact that Shinichi didn't realize they were in an argument is proof that it wouldn't work. How could you not notice that someone you love is mad at you for a week? 

 

I would have to disagree that tolerance is the key to long term relationships. Tolerance by definition is suppressing the urge to do or say what you want. It's not healthy to just accept what the other has and move on. That way bo one is going to move forward. You also said love is about accepting each other's flaws. That is true to an extent, acceptance is just the first stage, which is where Shinichi and Ran are. But wouldnt be more worthwhile to find someone that compliments your flaws? Is it not better to to settle with someone who makes you a better person instead of just accepting everything you have flaws and all? Shinichi is flawed, Haibara is flawed, but together they have a chance of being complete. You said if you love someone you have to accept them all bot just the perfect side, but you see for Ran and Shinichi all they know is the perfect side of each other. What happens if Shinichi loses someone and becomes angry and reckless, is she going to be able to accept him then? What if he kills someone for justice, how is that going to play out between them? They do not know the dark sides of each other. Meanwhile Haibara and Conan know the dark sides if each other more than the good. Their relationship is built on hate and blame. The fact that they are have become close shows that tey fully accepted the dark sides if each other. So if he loses someone or gets too reckless she can control him and tame him, because just because he loves Ran means she can tame him. What if he needs to hear something he doesnt want to hear? What if the only way to save him is hurt him? What if the only way to stop him from getting reckless and getting himself killed, is to shoot him? Would Ran be able to do all that? These are all crazy scenarios i know but they are highly plausibable in his life. 

 

Opposites attract is all i can really say. I can go on forever about how they would make a better couple. And authors are not perfect. J.K Rowling herself admitted that she had made a number if plot mistakes in the Harry Potter series. Gosho gave an amazing series, but it is a fact that the romance in the series is really bland. Which would have been fine for a two, three season mystrey show. But for something that has been building for 20 years, its deeply flawed. The way he lives his life, and the dangers he encounters on a daily basis, i think its safe to assume that one day 'love' is just not going to be enough. 

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1 hour ago, SamKel. said:

The reason i mentioned Kazuha is because the fact that when you have a relationship that has been building up for 20 years and of the teo people invilved can be subtituted by someone else is huge red flag. Kazuha and Ran are the same, so would it work if Shinichi started loving Kazuha? This is a mistake in Ran's character, she is the second main character and has nothing unique to add to the story. 

 

The reason He is better off with Haibara than Ran is because like you said she is the better partner. You mentioned that its cute how Shinichi and Ran made up over a song. Which is true, but you have to consider the life he is leading. The way he lives is dangerous, things are rarely ever cute. Besides, when looking at the problems he is facing now and the problems he may face in the future, it's wrong to assume how Shinichi and Ran will handle it by looking at how they got over an argument that was resilved by a song. What happens when there is another case where he has to leave? What if he starts working with the FBI? She can't be his partner, and she can't help him so is she supposed to just wait? And more importantly, the fact that Shinichi didn't realize they were in an argument is proof that it wouldn't work. How could you not notice that someone you love is mad at you for a week? 

 

I would have to disagree that tolerance is the key to long term relationships. Tolerance by definition is suppressing the urge to do or say what you want. It's not healthy to just accept what the other has and move on. That way bo one is going to move forward. You also said love is about accepting each other's flaws. That is true to an extent, acceptance is just the first stage, which is where Shinichi and Ran are. But wouldnt be more worthwhile to find someone that compliments your flaws? Is it not better to to settle with someone who makes you a better person instead of just accepting everything you have flaws and all? Shinichi is flawed, Haibara is flawed, but together they have a chance of being complete. You said if you love someone you have to accept them all bot just the perfect side, but you see for Ran and Shinichi all they know is the perfect side of each other. What happens if Shinichi loses someone and becomes angry and reckless, is she going to be able to accept him then? What if he kills someone for justice, how is that going to play out between them? They do not know the dark sides of each other. Meanwhile Haibara and Conan know the dark sides if each other more than the good. Their relationship is built on hate and blame. The fact that they are have become close shows that tey fully accepted the dark sides if each other. So if he loses someone or gets too reckless she can control him and tame him, because just because he loves Ran means she can tame him. What if he needs to hear something he doesnt want to hear? What if the only way to save him is hurt him? What if the only way to stop him from getting reckless and getting himself killed, is to shoot him? Would Ran be able to do all that? These are all crazy scenarios i know but they are highly plausibable in his life. 

 

Opposites attract is all i can really say. I can go on forever about how they would make a better couple. And authors are not perfect. J.K Rowling herself admitted that she had made a number if plot mistakes in the Harry Potter series. Gosho gave an amazing series, but it is a fact that the romance in the series is really bland. Which would have been fine for a two, three season mystrey show. But for something that has been building for 20 years, its deeply flawed. The way he lives his life, and the dangers he encounters on a daily basis, i think its safe to assume that one day 'love' is just not going to be enough. 

 
 

Woah,take it easy there,You sound a bit too emotional...relax,chill bro,this is just for fun...My apologies if my opinion annoys you....

Firstly, I never said that writers are perfect, no one is, I just said that writers write what they think are right, for example, I write what I think is right, and so do you, we both give our opinions that we think we are right only to be proved wrong the next second...We,the readers,can grumble all we want but it's all in the writer's hand, that was my point,sorry if I didn't make myself clear...

Next, about your opinion,it's not wrong,not at all...You have your own point of view,lovers should help each other overcome their flaws,it's a beautiful one but I, too have my OWN point of view, I would appreciate if you respect it. Yes, I do agree that they should help each other on that matter, but they should also consider other's feelings as well...Haibara is just too blunt and sarcastic.While being straightforward is nice and helpful, sarcastic is the opposite. It might hurt others... True, that lover should point out each other's flaws, at the same time, they should also give space for a change... Ran and Shinichi had known each other for 10 years, in dc's timeline, surely they have seen flaws in the other, don't you think? Do you think that the so-called 'dark side' can be kept for 10 years but not for a year or two? (the timeline is really confusing) But it's obvious that Ran knew him longer.... Anyway, all of us watched dc for 20 years,at least the episodes worth of 2 decades and we haven't really found his 'dark' side if you mean his recklessness,he has always been like that and survived without Haibara....I know that's the point you're trying to make, that he might not in the future, but what change will it make? Haibara's there, yet he still acted against her, still went into a showdown with BO, If Ran knew about this, she would, of course, try to stop him, given the danger, if he still stubborn,she would do the same like Haibara did in the Vermouth arc...I really can't see how she can 'humble' him any better than Ran...He's just that arrogant

*ARGH! why is he so charming?faints, again* Ignore the line,really...

P.s: I'm sorry if my reply is offending or emotional, but I'm cool(the line before this for example hihi) and it's just my style of debate...

 

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41 minutes ago, Ayuna Yume said:

Woah,take it easy there,You sound a bit too emotional...relax,chill bro,this is just for fun...My apologies if my opinion annoys you....

Firstly, I never said that writers are perfect, no one is, I just said that writers write what they think are right, for example, I write what I think is right, and so do you, we both give our opinions that we think we are right only to be proved wrong the next second...We,the readers,can grumble all we want but it's all in the writer's hand, that was my point,sorry if I didn't make myself clear...

Next, about your opinion,it's not wrong,not at all...You have your own point of view,lovers should help each other overcome their flaws,it's a beautiful one but I, too have my OWN point of view, I would appreciate if you respect it. Yes, I do agree that they should help each other on that matter, but they should also consider other's feelings as well...Haibara is just too blunt and sarcastic.While being straightforward is nice and helpful, sarcastic is the opposite. It might hurt others... True, that lover should point out each other's flaws, at the same time, they should also give space for a change... Ran and Shinichi had known each other for 10 years, in dc's timeline, surely they have seen flaws in the other, don't you think? Do you think that the so-called 'dark side' can be kept for 10 years but not for a year or two? (the timeline is really confusing) But it's obvious that Ran knew him longer.... Anyway, all of us watched dc for 20 years,at least the episodes worth of 2 decades and we haven't really found his 'dark' side if you mean his recklessness,he has always been like that and survived without Haibara....I know that's the point you're trying to make, that he might not in the future, but what change will it make? Haibara's there, yet he still acted against her, still went into a showdown with BO, If Ran knew about this, she would, of course, try to stop him, given the danger, if he still stubborn,she would do the same like Haibara did in the Vermouth arc...I really can't see how she can 'humble' him any better than Ran...He's just that arrogant

*ARGH! why is he so charming?faints, again* Ignore the line,really...

P.s: I'm sorry if my reply is offending or emotional, but I'm cool(the line before this for example hihi) and it's just my style of debate...

 

Sorry if i sounded rude there i guess i was too intent in getting my point across. I guess the way each of us views the characters are different. I like to think about what may happen to these characters after the end if the show. I guess my imganation run too wild sometimes. 

 

The thing is, despite knowing each other for 10 years Ran and Shinichi haven't really had any hardships in their lives. And i understand your view on sarcasm and how ut would affect a relationship. Usually i would agree with you but i dont see it affecting Shnichi and Haibara who to be honest don't seem to mind that, keep in mind that should their relationship progress their interactions would change slightly. Sure Haibara is there and he is being reckless but she can't really do anything when he is hiding everything from her. I think it is a mistake they are both making by keeping secrets about the org from one another, but it could pay off in the end. I just don't see Ran as a character go against him. In terms o being able to humble him i don't know how to explain that to honestly, i just feel like if given the chance, Conan and Haibara can get to know each other better than Ran and Shinichi, and that would result in them knowing how to handle each other better. 

 

As you said the ending is in the writer's hand, and i know that ConxAi is never going to happen but as a fan of storyteeling, i just feel like it is an unfortunate waste of a potentially great storyline. 

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1 hour ago, SamKel. said:

Sorry if i sounded rude there i guess i was too intent in getting my point across. I guess the way each of us views the characters are different. I like to think about what may happen to these characters after the end if the show. I guess my imganation run too wild sometimes.

 

I think if there's anything really to object to regarding your stance and it's not just you in particular, it's pretty much overlooking any positives to Ran while just focusing on the negatives.

 

As Ayuna points out for example, if there's anything big that Ran and Shinichi can agree on, it's that all life is sacred even if the person is either a criminal or the person is one you don't know.  Haibara herself is unquestionably a good person and is willing to put herself at great risk to save her loved ones (compromising her secret by taking a temporarily antidote to save the Detective Boy for example).

 

But it arguably takes a lot more sense of courage and justice to stick your neck out for someone you could careless about.  Though I will say that I don't think it would be impossible for Haibara to grow beyond said aspect if given the chance.  I mean just because I don't support a pairing or lack an interest in it, doesn't mean that I agree with dismissing the potential love interest as a character or ignoring their merits.

 

And again regarding her capabilities, I point to the Desperate Revival, which despite her slip ups, she held on to her suspicion for a long time unless the previous two and fourth suspicion arc.  That's 92 episodes (9/10 manga volumes with 112 chapter) that Ran managed to avoid tipping off Conan.

 

Plus, when Conan is recovering from being shot, we see him even recalling an example of overlooking Ran's suspicion as demonstrated in Episode 174: The Twenty Year Old Murderous Intent: The Symphony Serial Murder Case, or Volume 23 (File 229: This is the Truth).  Not to mention that when it comes to all suspicion arcs, it's only the when you drops the subtly that Conan even catches onto her, demonstrating that she can fool even someone with a higher than normal intellect.

 

Much like any other times Conan does stumble onto her suspicion, it's only because he has talented allies to help him with providing evidence that he and Shinichi are two different people.  Considering how Ran did manage to conceal her suspicion until that arc without any help, imagine how well she could perform if given that level of trust and support.

 

 

Bottomline overall, if you support Conan/Ai, Shinichi/Shiho or whatever, cool.  Though if you believe your pairing of choice is more substantial, I'd think you should be able to demonstrate confidence in your opinion without cutting down Ran's merits in the process.  Afterall, one who believes their stance to be valid shouldn't have to fear or hide from the (inconvenient) truth.

 

Kind of like how I used the Desperate Revival to demonstrate that Ran does have potential for example to help keep the secret until the end, even though others could use it as a counter argument.  The episode at first glance would suggest she's unable to keep the secret, yet I feel the details (referring to above) once you look closely speaks stronger that the slip ups.

 

At the very least though, we should be able to agree that he's not worthy of either until he can be more honest and less egotistical:-).  Right?

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10 hours ago, SamKel. said:

Sorry if i sounded rude there i guess i was too intent in getting my point across. I guess the way each of us views the characters are different. I like to think about what may happen to these characters after the end if the show. I guess my imganation run too wild sometimes. 

 

The thing is, despite knowing each other for 10 years Ran and Shinichi haven't really had any hardships in their lives. And i understand your view on sarcasm and how ut would affect a relationship. Usually i would agree with you but i dont see it affecting Shnichi and Haibara who to be honest don't seem to mind that, keep in mind that should their relationship progress their interactions would change slightly. Sure Haibara is there and he is being reckless but she can't really do anything when he is hiding everything from her. I think it is a mistake they are both making by keeping secrets about the org from one another, but it could pay off in the end. I just don't see Ran as a character go against him. In terms o being able to humble him i don't know how to explain that to honestly, i just feel like if given the chance, Conan and Haibara can get to know each other better than Ran and Shinichi, and that would result in them knowing how to handle each other better. 

 

As you said the ending is in the writer's hand, and i know that ConxAi is never going to happen but as a fan of storyteeling, i just feel like it is an unfortunate waste of a potentially great storyline. 

19

Oh,no...I guess I was a bit emotional yesterday....my fault...

Regarding your last paragraph, that ConAi is a potentially great storyline. True, I agree with you, but if that's the case, if Gosho-sensei really did something like that, Conan and Ai being a couple, that would change the storyline completely...And Ran won't have any role at all...Let's say, she did appear in the story as a supporting character, as Shinichi's most trusted childhood friend and with whom Conan stay with, the outcome will still be the same...Some fans might get bored with ConAi and start to ship ShinRan instead, even though it's not canon...It's natural to have any disagreements with the story since not everyone has the same way of thinking, I know this have nothing to do with our topic, who's better off with Shinichi...but again everything is writer's choice, I agree ConAI will be an interesting couple, but I still root for ShinRan because I just prefer loyalty and true love than how interesting and better a couple can be...don't get me wrong....I still think ShinRan would be a better couple, but you and other ConAi fans don't, and it's not your fault at all...

And yeah, I agree with Antiyonder, Ran should be given an opportunity to show her ability and trustworthiness more... 

9 hours ago, Antiyonder said:

At the very least though, we should be able to agree that he's not worthy of either until he can be more honest and less egotistical:-).  Right?

1

Hm...in that case, I'm still single, Kudou Shinichi! LOL ;) 

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Mmmm , well ,aside from the fact that shinichi seems to "like" ran , I don't (used to be huge shinran fan) like them anymore ,they have things in commen I'm not saying they don't it's just that with ran shinichi can never share the most beloved thing to him , being a detective, I would say it could work but it won't ,because ran (to me at least) gets all annoyed when he talks to her about things that he loves! 

And I find that irritating, because that IS shinichi ,plus shinichi will always treat ran like a kid ,I used think it's because he loves her too much , but a love without trust  will only cause problems, also I feel like their love is shallow ,yes ,I KNOW that they are childhood friends,but still sometimes I wonder if ran wasn't so good looking will shinichi love her? I don't know.

I guess I want shinichi to love someone that understand his passion, not just admire him for it ,I want him to love someone that  he can trust with his life (ran CAN be trusted with a life ,but shinichi disagree with me humph)

I don't want him to love a girl because she cries a lot and is pretty and is nice and I guess I don't understand WHAT they see in each other, should they fall in love simply because they are both perfect(ish) and knew each other when they were children? 

I'm not saying that shinichi should end up with haibara but that I prefer her then ran , he at the very least seems to trust her , and they actually have mutual interests . (Though I got to admit prefer him with masumi ,soon cute)

 

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We all know that Gosho will let ShinRan happened all the way because Gosho (and his generation) loves traditional girls who will wait for their lovers to death and listen to everything our heroes say, not heroine type who will fight and help heroes to death. But in fiction, reader are supposed to be entertained and in term of romance, Gosho fails completely with key characters (ShinRan/ HeiKaz/KidAoko). Their love are so safe and they all know each other from their childhood, which is so repetitive. We all know that they will end up with each other. And I don't even know why a confession is so important for such couples who spend their whole time with each other. Most cases, I just see Kazuha and Heiji go with each other without a reason. Is Kazuha supposed to be free whenever Heiji go to Tokyo for cases???? Their romance is boring, they don't interact with each other enough to see the dynamic of their emotion. Their biggest obstacles is about their ego and shy personality which is very easy to get over if they truly love each other. The love story of Sato and Takagi is the only successful  love story of Gosho because they have natural evolution and is way more mature and entertaining, not like out stubborn main characters who stuck for too long.

 

I love that Conan doesn't treat Haibara as a lover. They have friendship, mutual understanding, sympathy, blood, tears and a lot more. They are interdependent on each other, unlike Ran way dependent too much on Shinichi. Their relationship is so splendid and way more interesting than Gosho's childhood love. Still wait for an awesome character to make a couple with Shiho though.

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I do not really have an OTP for this show, at least not yet. I'm rooting for ShinRan though since I am vapid and like the idea of childhood sweethearts even if it is overused :wub:  I can understand why there are so many ConAi shippers though. I think it is easier to like Haibara because we know more about her personal life and she is a more tragic/complex character. Ran is... not the most interesting character and her main purpose is to serve as Conan's lady love. I do like Ran more than Haibara though, but that is mainly because I am not really into the kuudere type (or any dere for that matter). I do like it when Haibara shows her concern for Ayumi, Mitsuhiko, Conan and Genta though:D

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well before i wanted AiXCon but as the series go on I think he doesnt deserve her she much cooler then him(its just my opinion)

and ShinXRan would go till end so Haibara if remains a child then with Mitsuhiko and if Shiho then with Akai

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On 10/31/2016 at 5:33 AM, slithysleuth said:

I do not really have an OTP for this show, at least not yet. I'm rooting for ShinRan though since I am vapid and like the idea of childhood sweethearts even if it is overused :wub:  I can understand why there are so many ConAi shippers though. I think it is easier to like Haibara because we know more about her personal life and she is a more tragic/complex character. Ran is... not the most interesting character and her main purpose is to serve as Conan's lady love. I do like Ran more than Haibara though, but that is mainly because I am not really into the kuudere type (or any dere for that matter). I do like it when Haibara shows her concern for Ayumi, Mitsuhiko, Conan and Genta though:D

Well i like Haibara as her perssonality resembles mine in many ways and she is so cute

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I believe shinichi will die age around 20 to 40 with ran and detective job. Shinichi and shiho will protect other better then ran. The best detective is lot more dangerous then good detective.shiho will to everything her power to save Shinichi. Ran better person to haibara.

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This topic is posted 9 years ago, but I just joined this forum recently. I saw this and was interested in it, so it's okay if I only give reply now, right?

Anyway, this is my reply.

In general, Ran is a likeable character. She's kind, caring, trusting, loyal, patient, and skilled in karate. She has flaws like being easily afraid of ghosts and monsters tales, a crybaby, and believing in superstitious things despite being a detective's daughter (fortune-telling for example, which is just plain stupid to me), but those flaws can be ignored easily when she has such positive traits in her. If there's someone like her in real life, I think I don't mind befriending her to some degree. I only need to make sure her negative traits won't transmit to me. So in conclusion, I don't hate her, but that doesn't mean I like her so much either. Indeed she's nice in general, but as a reader, I can't bring myself to be interested in her character. Maybe it's because she lacks character development. Or maybe it's because she doesn't have anything special even though she's the heroine of DC. In any case, you can say she's just "okay" or a tolerable character to me.
But if we talk about who should be with Shinichi, my answer definitely won't be Ran. I can't support ShinRan. In fact, I dislike this pairing a lot. Why?
Because I just don't understand why a girl would date a boy who has been taking advantage of her again and again. Conan has been lying to Ran so many times, mainly for the sake of his identity. Yes, he keeps his identity from her to protect her, but that doesn't mean he can also manipulate her family and friends. He darts Kogoro so many times to solve cases and sometimes he uses Eri and Sonoko. He literally uses them to get closer to the organization and this might endanger their life. Even after he uses them like this, he still keeps the truth from them, endangering them even more. If he told them the truth, at least they will have a chance to prepare for the worst, but if they don't know anything, they can't prepare anything to save themselves when the danger finally comes. Not to mention it might destroy their confidence when finally they figure out the truth (particularly for Kogoro since it will affect his reputation greatly). For now, Ran still doesn't know the truth and since she's kind, loyal, and trusting, she always believes in everything Shinichi/Conan said (see? Shinichi is taking advantage of her good nature), but what if she finally knows the truth? Will she just forgive everything? Will she still want to date him?
A normal, educated girl with healthy heart and mind may forgive, but trust and love are different matters. Why should she date a boy who has been taking advantage of her and her loved ones? Why should she date a boy who doesn't treat her parents well? Her parents are the ones who gave birth to her and raised her. They are people who have loved her even before she was born and will always love her unconditionally. They deserve her love more than anyone else. If this guy can't respect and treat them well, why should she love him? Why should she trust him when he has manipulated her and her family so many times and been putting them in danger without their consent?
If Ran still wants to date Shinichi or even worse, marry him despite knowing what Shinichi has done to her and her family, I probably will have no more respect for her because her decision is very stupid.
What if she never finds out the truth?
I'll blame Shinichi for that. He's so shameless and despicable. He doesn't deserve Ran at all. Honestly speaking, the relationship between Shinichi and Ran has been wrong since the start of the series. This is truly lamentable.
As for Ai, well, I like her. She may look cold on the surface, but actually she's a warm person inside. She's intelligent and dependable. Ran is kind-hearted, caring, patient, and loyal, but so is Ai. Her kindness and loyalty has been portrayed many times when she was with Conan and the Detective Boys. When they're faced with cases, Ai is often babysitting them (taking care of them, watching them so that they won't be exposed to danger) while Conan runs off to catch the culprit and solve the case. Ai always takes care of Professor Agasa's diet because she cares for his health. She always supports Conan even though sometimes she doesn't agree with his idea. She may question Conan's decision, reminding him the danger in his decision, but in the end she always respects his decision and supports him as much as she can. And she respects Ran for who she is. Sometimes she reminds Conan that Ran isn't weak, perhaps to remind him that Ran isn't a damsel in distress who always needs him to rescue her, or perhaps to remind him that he should cherish her more, or perhaps both. And I can say Ai is a patient and strong girl because despite having to grow up and work in the organization, he's still able to keep her kindness, he's still able to keep her sanity. She hates the organization, but she still patiently worked for them to protect her sister, the only family she had.
Of course, Ai has flaws as well. She's hard to trust people, she's paranoid when faced with Black Organization's matters, and she has this sarcastic personality, but it can be ignored and tolerated easily because those flaws are there with a reason. She has those flaws because she grew up in the organization where people almost always harbour malice intention. Those flaws are there to protect her from their malignity. When you're surrounded with dangerous people, of course you can't trust people easily. If you're exposed to danger for a long time, it's only natural for you to be paranoid. This paranoia serves as a reminder for you so that you'll be cautious every time and will notice immediately when the danger is nearby. It can be useful when you're surrounded with danger, but it will become unnecessary, annoying, and troublesome when you're in a peaceful environment. And when you grow up in an environment where there are many people with sarcastic personality such as the members of Black Organization, it will be hard for you not to be sarcastic as well. But at least Ai never uses her sarcastic personality excessively, neither does she ever use it for bad intention.
In conclusion, I like Ai more than Ran because she's likeable as a person and more interesting as a character. And I can accept if Conan ends up with Ai (even though I don't like Conan). They've been working together without having to manipulate each other. Their relationship isn't built on lies, but on trust and respect, and that's what makes their relationship looks more realistic and promising compared to ShinRan's.
So yeah, for me, it's Shiho/Ai for Shinichi/Conan. But it will be better if Ai ends up with someone else who's better than Shinichi/Conan. Shinichi/Conan is a jerk, seriously. He shouldn't treat Ran and her family like that. This is a big and fatal flaw for a main protagonist like him.

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I think Ran is better off with Shinichi mostly because Shinichi and Ran are childhood friends who know each other very well, they both like each other, and they get along quite well. 

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