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Why do some people not like Ran?

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Crying has zero to do with control over your emotions. I cry more than Ran, and believe me, I would LOVE for that to not happen. It's literally just a physical reaction to emotion or trauma. I am in control of my emotions, it's just my body decides the best way to deal with it is to make my eyes tear up. Something makes me super happy? Eyes tear up. Someone makes me angry? After I flip out about it, eyes tear up. Sadness? Eyes tear up. It's not as if someone says, oh shit I really want to cry right now.

ETA: Actually, crying probably means you have MORE control over your emotions since you are willing to show them. Will we ever see Shinichi cry? Nope. Is he forward with his emotions? NOPE.

ETA2: I also can't read the rest of this thread. The failure to grasp Ran as a character and her importance to the story and Shinichi is just baffling to me.

ETA3: I should probably amend the entry to my post as pointing out I am in control of my emotions because I do not flip out about anything, in anger or otherwise, unless warranted and actually pretty severe. I don't throw things, I try and work out problems immediately and through intelligent discussion, and the like.

I also want to ask every single person that has gone on and on and on about how terrible Ran is, if they would SERIOUSLY act any different at 17, after having your best friend and love of your life just up and disappear one day, constantly telling you to wait with nary an explanation. As a friend of hers, I would tell her to ditch the loser.

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Crying has zero to do with control over your emotions. I cry more than Ran, and believe me, I would LOVE for that to not happen. It's literally just a physical reaction to emotion or trauma. I am in control of my emotions, it's just my body decides the best way to deal with it is to make my eyes tear up. Something makes me super happy? Eyes tear up. Someone makes me angry? After I flip out about it, eyes tear up. Sadness? Eyes tear up. It's not as if someone says, oh shit I really want to cry right now.

ETA: Actually, crying probably means you have MORE control over your emotions since you are willing to show them. Will we ever see Shinichi cry? Nope. Is he forward with his emotions? NOPE.

ETA2: I also can't read the rest of this thread. The failure to grasp Ran as a character and her importance to the story and Shinichi is just baffling to me.

ETA3: I should probably amend the entry to my post as pointing out I am in control of my emotions because I do not flip out about anything, in anger or otherwise, unless warranted and actually pretty severe. I don't throw things, I try and work out problems immediately and through intelligent discussion, and the like.

I also want to ask every single person that has gone on and on and on about how terrible Ran is, if they would SERIOUSLY act any different at 17, after having your best friend and love of your life just up and disappear one day, constantly telling you to wait with nary an explanation. As a friend of hers, I would tell her to ditch the loser.

Sorry to say, but I totally disagree. Having control over your emotions means that you control where you direct that energy. Crying, is quite frankly, a waste of energy and does nothing productive. It only makes you feel better, doesn't rectify the situation at all that made you cry. Detectives can feel sadness or sorrow over a murder, but they tend not to cry. Instead they direct that negative energy into putting every fiber of their being into catching the person responsible. Their emotions become their drive to do what needs to be done. If they break down and cry, nothing gets done, and all that happens is that they feel slightly better, but the end result is that the murderer gets away.

Ran breaks down and cries every single time Shinichi runs off. She stops and cries. She doesn't try to stop him, understand, go with him (granted all those things would hurt Gosho's story), she just stands there and cries. That to me is letting your emotions get the best of you, which she does a lot. She gets angry? SHE BREAKS SOMETHING. Please, tell me, how exactly is that controlling your emotions? Someone dies? She cries, and has to be told by Conan or Kogorou to call the Police and an ambulance. It is only then she snaps out of it for a brief moment and does what needs to be done. If your emotions interfere with what you should do, you obviously have no control over them. If anger leads to you breaking a wall or a desk, you have no control over them.

I'm not saying there is anything wrong with crying, because it IS a physiological reaction, but that is *all* she does in some situations. Crying should not impede you, but it does impede Ran. She is far too emotional.

You can show your emotions too without letting them impede you or directing it negatively. As in directing anger to a negative reaction is not controlling, that is being controlled.

(BTW, none of this relates to why I dislike Ran, which I have already posted in depth over)

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Since when is crying negative energy? It's not. Unless you plan to go into my DNA and physically change my body, you cannot correlate it with having no control over your emotions. It also doesn't make me feel better unless it's an actual sadness thing. As I mentioned already, I also tear up and cry over happy things. Please explain to me how that is negative.

Ran is Japanese, they are not a culture that is known for their forthrightness on emotions. I don't see her begging him to stay as she's trying to be strong. It took this entire storyline for him to stop being a selfish jerk to her in this respect. Besides, how often has Ran broken something lately? Not much, if at all. It seems to be it was merely one of the many humor type of things they had in the beginning, like half the stuff with Kogoro.

I said I have control over my emotions and still cry, I never said nor tried to imply this was Ran. I was merely countering all this ALL SHE DOES IS CRY blather that everyone keeps spouting. Seriously, how many times has she kicked some culprit, or done some other crazy stuff that is similar? So she has a range of emotions. Oh no, how dare she.

Most people could not handle being around that much death. Are you seriously saying you would be okay with it? My friend that words in a morgue says he has to go to great lengths to be able to deal with it. It will get to you, and to think she should act perfectly calm in all that? She is the only normal one in the cast! (Okay, her and Division One seem pretty realistic)

The only people I ever see saying "all she does is cry" seem to be the same people who don't like her. It just strikes me as very similar to the same sort of people who hate a character simply because she is female and start misusing the term and going off about how "she is a mary-sue." Or they're pissed she's in the way of their OTP.

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Since when is crying negative energy? It's not. Unless you plan to go into my DNA and physically change my body, you cannot correlate it with having no control over your emotions. It also doesn't make me feel better unless it's an actual sadness thing. As I mentioned already, I also tear up and cry over happy things. Please explain to me how that is negative.

Ran is Japanese, they are not a culture that is known for their forthrightness on emotions. I don't see her begging him to stay as she's trying to be strong. It took this entire storyline for him to stop being a selfish jerk to her in this respect. Besides, how often has Ran broken something lately? Not much, if at all. It seems to be it was merely one of the many humor type of things they had in the beginning, like half the stuff with Kogoro.

I said I have control over my emotions and still cry, I never said nor tried to imply this was Ran. I was merely countering all this ALL SHE DOES IS CRY blather that everyone keeps spouting. Seriously, how many times has she kicked some culprit, or done some other crazy stuff that is similar? So she has a range of emotions. Oh no, how dare she.

Most people could not handle being around that much death. Are you seriously saying you would be okay with it? My friend that words in a morgue says he has to go to great lengths to be able to deal with it. It will get to you, and to think she should act perfectly calm in all that? She is the only normal one in the cast! (Okay, her and Division One seem pretty realistic)

The only people I ever see saying "all she does is cry" seem to be the same people who don't like her. It just strikes me as very similar to the same sort of people who hate a character simply because she is female and start misusing the term and going off about how "she is a mary-sue." Or they're pissed she's in the way of their OTP.

Again, that is not why I dislike her. I was pointing out that she lets her emotions get the best of her. It is fine to cry if it doesn't prevent you from doing what is needed. People can cry and have head enough to call the police without being told. And it is CONNECTED to a negative emotion ... usually. Sadness, as natural as it is, is a negative emotion (considering Ran, how many times has she cried out of happiness (yes it has happened, but more less often than something negative like over Shinichi or a death)). I never said it is bad, just as anger is not bad, but still negative. It depends on how you use that energy, and both while negative can be directed to something positive. You can either do something beneficial, nothing or something negative with any emotion. With Ran and crying it is USUALLY the "do nothing." Yes, she has in the past kicked a culprit, but that is not right when she is crying, and is usually after she has come to terms with what is happened. Ran also doesn't get seriously angry lately either, she is usually just annoyed at her father for drinking, but nothing more.

Oh and... Perhaps not always breaking something, but she has let her anger lead to attacking someone who was innocent recently. You know... Attacking Sera was not cool. She did that because she was angry for her friend, but instead of surveying the situation like Conan did, she chose to IMMEDIATELY attack her. EVEN WHEN SERA SAID "WAIT" BECAUSE IT WAS A MISUNDERSTANDING! In Martial Arts, fighting is NEVER the first course of action, especially not for revenge for a friend. Martial arts is SELF-DEFENSE, the only person who had any right to throw a kick or punch in that situation was Sera who was fighting Ran in SELF-DEFENSE. Sonoko had a right to slap the guy or knock him away, but Ran was out of line attacking like that. Call the police if anything, it IS illegal. Ran clearly let her emotions get the best of her, and if she had attacked ANYONE else, they likely would have ended up in the hospital with the level of her attacks. Are you saying that is right? Please say you aren't, because that is considered ASSAULT and is illegal. Two wrongs don't make a right. (And that, to be honest, WOULD be a reason for me to dislike her)

And I know people in the ME Office. They all have their ways of dealing with the amount of death they see, but none of them break down and cry and allow their sadness prevent them from doing their jobs. Does it bother them? Certainly, but not to the point where they can't do their job. Each of them direct it to something positive, or at least try to whenever possible. If they didn't they probably wouldn't be able to handle the job.

Oh and for the record, I have lost more than the average amount of people in my life for various reasons, and I never broke down and cried or allowed my emotions from preventing me from doing what I needed to do. I talked out my emotions, went to counseling for one death in particular, but never once allowed that sadness to stop me from performing what I needed. I usually directed that emotion into martial arts teaching and practice, or my studies.

And I never said she ONLY cries, but when she does, it is the only thing she does do. You can cry, but at least call the police while you are crying. Have the frame of mind for that at least.

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You know, I'm trying not to be a huge bitch, but your entire post just screams "I'm right about everything and you're wrong because I say so, so here's a wall of text to railroad you."

Actually, I can't really read what you wrote because of all the random capslock in there.. however since you didn't do that in the last paragraph, I can read that, so to that... Okay, I guess because you and a handful of your friends don't respond the way Ran does, (which BTW I did mention my friend does his job fine, but he has to go to lengths to deal with it), it means she's clearly OOC and horrible and just bad. Right? Your personal experience negates anyone else's, correct? That is what you're saying, right? I mean, Aoyama Gosho just created these characters for shits and giggles and didn't really think them through and doesn't keep them in character ever, nor are they based on the way real people in real parts of the world act, and clearly just has them do things that no normal people do for the hell of it, right?

Not everyone is good at multitasking, and not everyone is going to get used to seeing death all the time. I mean Ran doesn't say that to Shinichi in the first case or anything. Oh wait, she does.

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Oh and... Perhaps not always breaking something, but she has let her anger lead to attacking someone who was innocent recently. You know... Attacking Sera was not cool. She did that because she was angry for her friend, but instead of surveying the situation like Conan did, she chose to IMMEDIATELY attack her. EVEN WHEN SERA SAID "WAIT" BECAUSE IT WAS A MISUNDERSTANDING!

So basically, because Ran does things like most other normal people when they hear that someone tried to be a pervert to their friend or loved one, that one example (and let's note that it's only one example, an example by Gosho done merely to keep the "Is Sera a male or female?" illusion going). I don't know about you, but if my friend tells me that some person just tried feeling them up in a public place, I'm not exactly going to ask the attacker to explain his/herself.

In Martial Arts, fighting is NEVER the first course of action, especially not for revenge for a friend. Martial arts is SELF-DEFENSE, the only person who had any right to throw a kick or punch in that situation was Sera who was fighting Ran in SELF-DEFENSE. Sonoko had a right to slap the guy or knock him away, but Ran was out of line attacking like that. Call the police if anything, it IS illegal. Ran clearly let her emotions get the best of her, and if she had attacked ANYONE else, they likely would have ended up in the hospital with the level of her attacks. Are you saying that is right? Please say you aren't, because that is considered ASSAULT and is illegal. Two wrongs don't make a right. (And that, to be honest, WOULD be a reason for me to dislike her)

Once again, everyone lets their emotions get the best of them. No matter how much of a martial arts expert they are, how much they can control their anger. No one is saying that it is right. You are the only person here who is saying that because people are defending Ran for what she does that it somehow means it is right. No, of course it's not "right" to just whack some random stranger in the face, but does that mean that we're going to blame Ran whatsoever for sticking up for her friend? A friend that doesn't exactly have all that many great means to defend herself? Seriously, this is Sonoko we're talking about. She couldn't even defend herself against dust. Of course Ran is going to get very protective over Sonoko of all people. And not even just Sonoko. Ran will protect her friends at all cost. I'd rather have Ran on my side instead of you, to be frank, if this is the attitude you have if someone goes after your friend.

Fact of the matter is, 8 or 9 out of 10 people are going to help their friend defend his/herself when faced with an actually physical attacker. End of story. I don't care how many personal experiences that you have that are against the norm. This is how things work. It goes back to our caveman/cavewoman instincts. We protect those we love, even with physical violence.

And I know people in the ME Office. They all have their ways of dealing with the amount of death they see, but none of them break down and cry and allow their sadness prevent them from doing their jobs. Does it bother them? Certainly, but not to the point where they can't do their job. Each of them direct it to something positive, or at least try to whenever possible. If they didn't they probably wouldn't be able to handle the job.

Once again, just because you know people that are different from the norm doesn't mean that it's the norm.

Oh and for the record, I have lost more than the average amount of people in my life for various reasons, and I never broke down and cried or allowed my emotions from preventing me from doing what I needed to do. I talked out my emotions, went to counseling for one death in particular, but never once allowed that sadness to stop me from performing what I needed. I usually directed that emotion into martial arts teaching and practice, or my studies.

I explained this to you a long time ago on another subject, but I guess you didn't listen then either, unfortunately. Not everyone is like you. Not everyone is as strong as you. Everyone is different and we all have different breaking points. You are NOT the norm in this situation, yet you keep posting in here as-if you are. Millions of people perform less than adequate because of certain things going on in their lives. I had a depressive period last year from February to May where I stopped going to school and stopped caring about my entire life. I persevered on my own with the help of friends and friends alone. No counseling. I am an incredibly strong person who can handle these kinds of things and CAN get back on my feet. Kyuu, NOT EVERYONE CAN DO THIS. The fact that Ran is hanging in there for so long with all of the shit going on in her life, and has barely broken down at ALL, shows off to me how incredibly strong and strong-willed she is. Everyone breaks. Everyone cries. It happens.

And I never said she ONLY cries, but when she does, it is the only thing she does do. You can cry, but at least call the police while you are crying. Have the frame of mind for that at least.

Which makes her no different from most other people in this world. Not everyone is stable enough when they're emotionally upset to call the police.

Your mistake here, and a mistake that you keep making, is thinking that because you handle something the way you do means that A. everyone else should handle it the same way B. everyone else DOES handle it the same way. I've got news for you, the list of people that can handle things the way you do is a very, very short list. This is a television series and manga franchise about murder and death, it's not the Ice Capades. No matter how many times someone sees a dead body it's going to affect some people.

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@CC: Just to note, I'm speaking as a Martial Artist here. Ran is a competition fighter, and a well trained black belt. They are expected to have more control than the normal person (ergo, due to her training, she is NOT a "normal person,"). It is fine to be protective, but attacking someone that you aren't even sure of is not the martial art way, especially not when your friend just tells you to attack. In that situation, Ran would have been arrested for assault, no matter what the circumstance (unless the perpetrator was physically attacking Sonoko) due to her training. Martial artists, especially tournament champions, are held at a higher standard. She could have severely hurt the the perpetrator (leading to an excessive force charge, along with assault). It was not Ran's place to attack, and she would have likely been dealt with more severely because of her training. Not only that, but the guy felt her up, not attacked her. You confront, not attack people like that. Ran handled the situation poorly. She was lucky that she attacked Sera, a trained JKD practitioner whom was able to defend herself.

The rest of what you said. There are two different issues... The first is controlling emotions. My argument is that Ran does not control her emotions. Perhaps our definitions of controlling emotions is different, but I was taught that controlling your emotions doesn't mean that you don't have them, but rather is the ability to direct that energy to whatever end the person whom is feeling that emotion wishes. Basically you use the emotion to either deal with what is making you sad/angry/[insert other emotions here]. I don't pretend to be strong, because I'm really not. Again, I had to go to counseling for one of those aforementioned deaths. I chose however to not let that stop me and I logically worked through everything so that I could direct it in a positive way. In that sense, yes, I am an anecdotal case. I am well aware of that, I was merely using it as an example. And the other example was merely countering her example. And please don't tell me that everyone I know, all 10 people at the ME's office, is a unique case. Perhaps they had similar training or the same mentality, but still, that example's only purpose was to provide an anecdotal counterargument to her anecdotal argument, nothing more. Please don't take it any other way.

The second part was that that crying need not impede your ability to act. It does with Ran, which doesn't need to be the case. Most of the other cast including the DBoys seem to be able to handle it just fine. I'd prefer it if Ran developed somewhat so that she would be able to deal with it better. She doesn't have to get used to it, its not in her character to do that. But at least have the frame of mind to be able to pick up the phone without being told. She has seen countless deaths, it is not too much to ask that she develop at least enough so that she can call the cops while crying without being told by Conan or Kogorou.

@Madeline: I'm sorry, but... I was defending my position. You didn't have to take it personally as you did. Usually when debates happen each side defends their position. It isn't about being right or wrong. If you want me to understand your position, then do it in a manner that explains it. You don't need to talk down to me, and I consider that response offensive for all the wrong reasons. I never actually suggested any of that. And I'm really sorry it read like that, but you brought in anecdotal evidence, and so I did the same. Regardless, this is a debate, so naturally I'd write things that support my position and try to discredit yours. It is how debates work.

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Sorry to say, but I totally disagree. Having control over your emotions means that you control where you direct that energy. Crying, is quite frankly, a waste of energy and does nothing productive. It only makes you feel better, doesn't rectify the situation at all that made you cry. Detectives can feel sadness or sorrow over a murder, but they tend not to cry. Instead they direct that negative energy into putting every fiber of their being into catching the person responsible. Their emotions become their drive to do what needs to be done. If they break down and cry, nothing gets done, and all that happens is that they feel slightly better, but the end result is that the murderer gets away.

Ran breaks down and cries every single time Shinichi runs off. She stops and cries. She doesn't try to stop him, understand, go with him (granted all those things would hurt Gosho's story), she just stands there and cries. That to me is letting your emotions get the best of you, which she does a lot. She gets angry? SHE BREAKS SOMETHING. Please, tell me, how exactly is that controlling your emotions? Someone dies? She cries, and has to be told by Conan or Kogorou to call the Police and an ambulance. It is only then she snaps out of it for a brief moment and does what needs to be done. If your emotions interfere with what you should do, you obviously have no control over them. If anger leads to you breaking a wall or a desk, you have no control over them.

I'm not saying there is anything wrong with crying, because it IS a physiological reaction, but that is *all* she does in some situations. Crying should not impede you, but it does impede Ran. She is far too emotional.

You can show your emotions too without letting them impede you or directing it negatively. As in directing anger to a negative reaction is not controlling, that is being controlled.

(BTW, none of this relates to why I dislike Ran, which I have already posted in depth over)

Again, that is not why I dislike her. I was pointing out that she lets her emotions get the best of her. It is fine to cry if it doesn't prevent you from doing what is needed. People can cry and have head enough to call the police without being told. And it is CONNECTED to a negative emotion ... usually. Sadness, as natural as it is, is a negative emotion (considering Ran, how many times has she cried out of happiness (yes it has happened, but more less often than something negative like over Shinichi or a death)). I never said it is bad, just as anger is not bad, but still negative. It depends on how you use that energy, and both while negative can be directed to something positive. You can either do something beneficial, nothing or something negative with any emotion. With Ran and crying it is USUALLY the "do nothing." Yes, she has in the past kicked a culprit, but that is not right when she is crying, and is usually after she has come to terms with what is happened. Ran also doesn't get seriously angry lately either, she is usually just annoyed at her father for drinking, but nothing more.

Oh and... Perhaps not always breaking something, but she has let her anger lead to attacking someone who was innocent recently. You know... Attacking Sera was not cool. She did that because she was angry for her friend, but instead of surveying the situation like Conan did, she chose to IMMEDIATELY attack her. EVEN WHEN SERA SAID "WAIT" BECAUSE IT WAS A MISUNDERSTANDING! In Martial Arts, fighting is NEVER the first course of action, especially not for revenge for a friend. Martial arts is SELF-DEFENSE, the only person who had any right to throw a kick or punch in that situation was Sera who was fighting Ran in SELF-DEFENSE. Sonoko had a right to slap the guy or knock him away, but Ran was out of line attacking like that. Call the police if anything, it IS illegal. Ran clearly let her emotions get the best of her, and if she had attacked ANYONE else, they likely would have ended up in the hospital with the level of her attacks. Are you saying that is right? Please say you aren't, because that is considered ASSAULT and is illegal. Two wrongs don't make a right. (And that, to be honest, WOULD be a reason for me to dislike her)

And I know people in the ME Office. They all have their ways of dealing with the amount of death they see, but none of them break down and cry and allow their sadness prevent them from doing their jobs. Does it bother them? Certainly, but not to the point where they can't do their job. Each of them direct it to something positive, or at least try to whenever possible. If they didn't they probably wouldn't be able to handle the job.

Oh and for the record, I have lost more than the average amount of people in my life for various reasons, and I never broke down and cried or allowed my emotions from preventing me from doing what I needed to do. I talked out my emotions, went to counseling for one death in particular, but never once allowed that sadness to stop me from performing what I needed. I usually directed that emotion into martial arts teaching and practice, or my studies.

And I never said she ONLY cries, but when she does, it is the only thing she does do. You can cry, but at least call the police while you are crying. Have the frame of mind for that at least.

Regardless of what you claim is the emotional norm in the ME office, I know even experienced cops run up against stuff where they just can't help themselves emotionally. They don’t let it out on the scene, or even talk about it with their coworkers for the sake of the stoic culture (probably what you have been picking up), but it comes home with them. You only need to look as far as police marriage counselors to see some of the real picture. That emotion doesn't stop them from doing what they need to do, but pretending that somehow all negative emotions can be cleanly burned away like kerosene to make work is naive. The people who try to do that get burnt out or change personality for the worse. The reality is that there is a time and place for everything, including emotions like sorrow and even crying, and one copes by allotting one’s emotional time well, so to speak.

I don't mind those who fail to control their emotions at times because it shows they are emotionally functioning, it's those who fail to have emotions I worry about; do they have no empathy, no emotional connections, are are they so traumatized and worn out they have trouble feeling anymore?

The second order of business is that you are pretty badly mischaracterizing Ran’s emotional reactions.

First, the dead body/case-based emotional reactions and the Shinichi emotional reactions come from two different sources, so conflating them as you seem to have implied in your response is wrong. The dead body reaction is fear, disgust, and empathy.

Edit: The DB react similar to Ran when there is a dead body. Flipping through a few chapters, Ran doesn't act worse than the DB, except when there is a ghost involved. Sure Conan or Mouri usually recover faster to declare that it's time to call the ambulance and the police, but Ran's delay isn't noteworthy compared to other characters.

Shinichi’s emotional stuff is related to romantic hardship.

You are misunderstanding why Ran is crying about Shinichi. Although I don't necessarily like how Gosho has been portraying Ran’s recent emotional state, it makes sense. Ran cries because she knows she must let Shinichi go. This decision making process has recently become extremely overt: see the post-Shiragami car case in the dialogue with Kazuha. Ran is aware Shinichi is on an important case, yet she is deliberately avoiding forcing him to choose between her and his case/sense of justice. She also knows from repeated romance plot developments that Shinichi would rather be with her if he wasn't doing the case. Although Ran occasionally frivolously comments on Shinichi’s deduction-prioritizing behavior, Ran does not think Shinichi is being selfish by valuing justice as highly as he does. This leads to the point of pain: the more you love someone, the more painful it is to separate. Shinichi is not just a romantic interest to Ran, he is someone she has grown up closely with for most of her life, and furthermore, Ran has been repeatedly letting Shinichi go with no sign of stopping in sight. If it became less painful for her over time, that would mean she would be losing her emotional connection with him. I wouldn’t be against this sort of development, but the way Gosho has been going, Ran and Shinichi have been getting romantically closer. As would be expected, the separation gets emotionally worse every time: more crying.

Ran has always been pretty aggressive with her karate so I don’t see the Sera thing as her losing it more than any other time. I recall Ran intentionally stopping short of putting a foot in a waiter’s face when she thought he was going to throw the Mouris out of the restaurant. Then there was the whole veterinarian Eri incident… Ran gets aggressive when she feels someone has been wronged or taken advantage of, and she definitely does get ahead of herself. It’s one of her character flaws, and one I’d rather not see go because we don’t need a perfect heroine who always acts just so appropriately. I do think the lavender locked mansion redux case highlighted how this sort of behavior makes things more interesting.

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Ran has always been pretty aggressive with her karate so I don’t see the Sera thing as her losing it more than any other time. I recall Ran intentionally stopping short of putting a foot in a waiter’s face that she thought he was going to throw the Mouri’s out of the restaurant. Then there was the whole veterinarian Eri incident… Ran gets aggressive when she feels someone has been wronged or taken advantage of, and she definitely does get ahead of herself. It’s one of her character flaws, and one I’d rather not see go because we don’t need a perfect heroine who always acts just so appropriately. I do think the lavender locked mansion redux case highlighted how this sort of behavior makes things more interesting.

Alright, so... good show Chek. All of that is well thought out and phrased. I can't say anything against it. Very valid points and yeah... It seems I mischaracterized Ran's emotions. I would still like to see her develop so that she snaps out of that sooner. It would be good development for her. I don't want her to get used to it, I just want to see her at least be able to dial 110 without Mouri or Conan telling her.

Edit: One thing I missed. There is a time a place for everything. I wasn't suggesting stoicism. But there are techniques for controlling and redirecting emotions that are not negative. Most of the people I know tell stories, jokes, divert the situation, and try to generally make light of it (if its REALLY bad). Hell, one of them listens to calming music after every case and meditates on it if it was particularly disturbing. They just don't simply let it get to them when there is an active case. And they usually talk it out afterwards (except for that one guy who meditates, who is oddly seemingly the most level headed of the bunch, but lets face it, I can't peer inside his head, so what do I know)

However, what I quoted actually proves my point that she can't control her anger. Which was pretty much my argument, that she can't control her emotions because she is very emotional. This is especially true of her anger. And yes, it is a character flaw, but that doesn't change the fact that attacking random people is wrong, and NOT controlling her anger at all. And had she gone through with any attack, in the real world, she would have been arrested for assault in every one of those cases. Attacking a waiter? The vet? Sera? And whomever else she has attacked without knowing the facts. It doesn't matter if it is a character flaw or not, she has issues controlling her anger, and she lets it get the best of her. Which is bad, especially considering that she is a martial arts champion. Again, she would also likely be arrested on the charge of use of excessive force along with assault.

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@Madeline: I'm sorry, but... I was defending my position. You didn't have to take it personally as you did. Usually when debates happen each side defends their position. It isn't about being right or wrong. If you want me to understand your position, then do it in a manner that explains it. You don't need to talk down to me, and I consider that response offensive for all the wrong reasons. I never actually suggested any of that. And I'm really sorry it read like that, but you brought in anecdotal evidence, and so I did the same. Regardless, this is a debate, so naturally I'd write things that support my position and try to discredit yours. It is how debates work.

With that little gem, I'm going to be PMing you about this instead of being an ass all over the boards.

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i don't see anything wrong with her. yea, she cries a lot, but the love of her life is never around (as far as she knows) and when he is around, its just to solve a case, and then he up and leaves before they have a chance to really hang out. as for her being not having much to do with the main BO plot, she's one of shinichi's love interests, thats really all she's there for. and i do think she's strong. sure she cries, but she's handled it pretty well considering.

I'm neither AiCon nor ShinRan, so i like to think I'm no biased either way, whoever shinichi picks, good for her

o, and personal questions for Parkur, u say u think Ran is annoying, but she's your signature...y?

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i don't hate her.. i like her during the funny scenes

But sometimes i don't like her..

i agree to what many says

she always cries a lot <--- sensitive?

and yeah, her hair is weird..

i just don't like her when she cries a lot..

that's why i'm still thinking if ShinRan is good.. and i also like DC b'coz it's funny

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I'm waiting for the day when Ran incorporates her horn into her karate and rams the living hell out of her enemies.

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She cries -> doesn't mean that she weak, she is a strong person when she is still waiting for Shin, she doesn't let anyone die, she makes everyone happy when she feels painful,...

She's afraid of ghosts -> Guys, it's her weakness, nobody is perfect

She gets fooled easily -> She's too nice to know and I have to say, everyone can get fooled easily, even how smart you are...

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she doesn't let anyone die

I still say that is actually a weakness based off of naivety. There are times when the lives of the many out-weigh the lives of the few. As screwed up as that may be, it is true, and police officers have to make that decision constantly, and none of them kid themselves thinking they can save everyone, because they know they can't. It is a fact of life. And thinking you are superman and risking the lives of several people and trying to save one person who has killed before is in my opinion stupid and arrogant.

In a hostage situation, if SWAT is called in and they are able to ... they aim to kill, not capture the hostage takers. Aiming for a double tap to the heart and one to the head. Why? Because it is unknown what they MIGHT do in response to being captured, or in an attempt to be captured. If someone has killed or has shown the predisposition to killing, they don't take chances. They go for the quick and guaranteed solution. Any movie in which you see cops aiming for kneecaps or what not, rarely if ever happens.

Both Ran and Shinichi share this weakness btw. I think she actually got it from him, well perhaps not the preserving of life part, but the will to act.

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I still say that is actually a weakness based off of naivety. There are times when the lives of the many out-weigh the lives of the few. As screwed up as that may be, it is true, and police officers have to make that decision constantly, and none of them kid themselves thinking they can save everyone, because they know they can't. It is a fact of life. And thinking you are superman and risking the lives of several people and trying to save one person who has killed before is in my opinion stupid and arrogant.

In a hostage situation, if SWAT is called in and they are able to ... they aim to kill, not capture the hostage takers. Aiming for a double tap to the heart and one to the head. Why? Because it is unknown what they MIGHT do in response to being captured, or in an attempt to be captured. If someone has killed or has shown the predisposition to killing, they don't take chances. They go for the quick and guaranteed solution. Any movie in which you see cops aiming for kneecaps or what not, rarely if ever happens.

Both Ran and Shinichi share this weakness btw. I think she actually got it from him, well perhaps not the preserving of life part, but the will to act.

I think trying to save one person who has killed before is not stupid and arrogant. Why, if everyone thinks like you, what will happen???

And yeah, thinking we are superman and "risk"??? Why is risk???

Movies are movies, I don't think cops are like Ran...

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Ran is a normal person as is Shinichi. Them taking on such a task is arrogant and dangerous.

Let me put it to you this way... The person has already killed, if Shinichi failed or ran failed then more would be sacrificed. They would kill again if cornered, and has almost happened numerous times before (as in a criminal attempted to do something after). The police threaten with use of force and act on it. Shinichi, nor ran have that luxury. That to me, is arrogant. Idealism is great when you don't put other people's lives on the line.

Edit: Also, there are quite a few people who think like I do... It is called cynicism. I don't like killing, but I respect the fact that in some situations it is necessary. It isn't saying to kill indiscriminately, or to kill a suspect whom obviously poses no threat. However, the mere idea that you, yourself, can save everyone is arrogant, and thinking that without the proper training is dangerous. Unless Ran or Shinichi reveals that they have secretly been training with a Japanese law enforcement or military agency in negotiation, and extraction and applicable submission techniques, it is highly dangerous and probably stupid to face such situations. Ran knows Karate, great, but I'd much rather trust Kazuha who knows Aikido or Kogorou who knows Judo and can SUBMIT and SUBDUE a suspect. Ran can kick and punch, and Shinichi can kick a ball. Neither have what it actually takes to diffuse a violent situation if a suspect decides to become violent. Shinichi has the mental capacity to figure things out, but not the physical prowess. Ran has neither.

So again, for me, yes both Ran and Shinichi are arrogant that they think they can take on that responsibility. Shinichi, luckily enough, at least learned that he CAN'T save everybody. At least twice, once with the Moonlight Sonata case and once with Akemi. However he still harbors that the naivety that he can do something in every situation despite being ill equipped. And the fact that both try, is dangerous.

I should mention this as well. I do not mean for when either put their OWN LIFE on the line to take a literal or proverbial bullet for someone else. That I do respect, because they are putting their own life on the line to prevent the death of another. However, if that person becomes safe and they prevent a police officer from doing their job, that I do not agree with. Situations tend to escalate, and if you prevent someone that has the means to kill to be killed when there was opportunity, who is to say that situation will turn in your favor or it won't escalate to something worse. What if that criminal takes that opportunity to shoot the officer who was going to shoot him? Then you just allowed a hero to die to save a killer. I'm sorry, but I believe in logical resolutions, and blind idealism that Ran and Shinichi sport I can never nor will ever agree with.

Even Holmes himself knew that killing was sometimes necessary and did it twice in memory.

Whether or not you agree, is up to you. But I consider that a grave flaw in her character, as well as Shinichi's.

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I completely agree with Kyuu on this. I didn't post that yesterday, because I felt the post stood on it's own, but since it's being called into question... complete agreement. I've always considered it one of Shinichi's biggest flaws, right next to thinking there is no justification for causing the death of another. Naivety. Self Defense? Things like that. (I hope I'm making sense, I just woke up so I'm not being very eloquent.)

Ran in this respect is a bit more mature, as she isn't preachy about it like he is.

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Considering Araide's first case with the maid(?) being tricked into killing someone, Conan was fine with her not finding out or being punished for it because he believed the real person to blame was the wife. It might just be Aoyama hadn't quite decided yet on Conan's opinion, but it does show he seems to care more about... intent? I suppose *needs to rewatch case*

Still, I agree that it's naive to think you can save everyone and both Ran and Shinichi are way too idealistic sometimes...

Also, the recent case where the husband stabbed the wife and Conan didn't tell the police because he seemed remorseful, definitely too idealistic sometimes :/

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