Black Organization's true plan

[Metantei Kiddo 147]

Maybe the boss has someone in particular he wants to use it on. Perhaps the Black Organization and its scientific research has been created for the sake of one person who is simply that important to the boss?

That is still improbable. It just doesn't make sense to have an arsenal of professional killers (Gin, Vodka, Chianti, Korn and etc) and I'm sure that these guys are paid big. Seems like the cost outweights the cause, if this is the case.

[Chekhov MacGuffin 1089]

That is still improbable. It just doesn't make sense to have an arsenal of professional killers (Gin, Vodka, Chianti, Korn and etc) and I'm sure that these guys are paid big. Seems like the cost outweights the cause, if this is the case.

What if the boss has a Shinichi-type personality? If we pretend that Shinichi's sense of ethics is flexible, isn't it conceivable that Shinichi would go as far as making a giant criminal organization just to fund the research to save Ran? There might be a certain the reason the boss had to turn to the underworld, maybe no one in legitimate business would believe in the project the boss wanted to do - everyone told him it was impossible. Or maybe the boss has some strange feature that would be incompatible with being a real company president.

[Metantei Kiddo 147]

What if the boss has a Shinichi-type personality? If we pretend that Shinichi's sense of ethics is flexible, isn't it conceivable that Shinichi would go as far as making a giant criminal organization just to fund the research to save Ran? There might be a certain the reason the boss had to turn to the underworld, maybe no one in legitimate business would believe in the project the boss wanted to do - everyone told him it was impossible. Or maybe the boss has some strange feature that would be incompatible with being a real company president.

That's probable but it's probably gonna come down to the saneness of the person.

Anyway, as for the impossibility of the project, well as long as money is involved, no one cares about the feasibility. They'll still join the company as long as they're payed big bucks for the research. I'm sure the big boss, before even starting the syndicate, is a rich man.

And scientists research the impossible anyway, we have that kind of organizations going on legally that has a goal in mind like extending ones life, teleportation or free energy. Although some are secretive, they still abide to the laws. No one really bats an eye even if it's not feasible as long as the project, somehow, advances human society. And reviving dead, to some, is a step forward.

Well for the boss having an undesirable feature, the boss could hire someone to be his/her puppet as CEO, if that's the case. A person like Vermouth would do.

[Akazora 292]

Pisco's comments about the drug were pretty revealing that it wasn't meant as a poison. Haibara said the same.

 

Maybe the boss has someone in particular he wants to use it on. Perhaps the Black Organization and its scientific research has been created for the sake of one person who is simply that important to the boss?

Has anybody brought up the idea of trying to cure cancer?  Since APTX4869 derives its name from apoptosis, which is a process some cells undergo to cure tumors (and potentially cancer) through "cell suicide", could that have been the original purpose of it?  After all, if the prototype of the drug wasn't as fine tuned as it should have been then it very easily could have caused vital cells in the body to kill themselves.  Would it be possible for the death of cells in the heart to go undetected in an autopsy?  APTX4869 might have been made in an attempt to save someone close Anokata who has cancer.

 

I'll admit I haven't been following the conversation and debate of the true BO modus operandi, but this was just an idea I was toying with.  It's not a very creative one, so I'm sure someone has already found holes in this theory.

[Chekhov MacGuffin 1089]

Has anybody brought up the idea of trying to cure cancer?  Since APTX4869 derives its name from apoptosis, which is a process some cells undergo to cure tumors (and potentially cancer) through "cell suicide", could that have been the original purpose of it?  After all, if the prototype of the drug wasn't as fine tuned as it should have been then it very easily could have caused vital cells in the body to kill themselves.  Would it be possible for the death of cells in the heart to go undetected in an autopsy?  APTX4869 might have been made in an attempt to save someone close Anokata who has cancer.

 

I'll admit I haven't been following the conversation and debate of the true BO modus operandi, but this was just an idea I was toying with.  It's not a very creative one, so I'm sure someone has already found holes in this theory.

The only hole I can think of is that curing cancer doesn't seem mad-scientist enough. Atsushi was a scientific outcast, so whatever he wanted to do must have been pretty out there. You'd think the boss could rope in a legit business if APTX was meant to cure cancer. But yeah, curing an exotic disease might be a potential boss motive.

[Shinan-Kudogawa 26]

The only hole I can think of is that curing cancer doesn't seem mad-scientist enough. Atsushi was a scientific outcast, so whatever he wanted to do must have been pretty out there. You'd think the boss could rope in a legit business if APTX was meant to cure cancer. But yeah, curing an exotic disease might be a potential boss motive.

I truly doubt it, since the professor Itakura or whatever his name is. While being monitored wrote a secret diary that said that he should have and did stopped the programming for the sake of humanity, if the drug is meant to save a cure then this contradicts Itakura's words. Unless he is a meanie XD, which is unlikely.. 

[Metantei Kiddo 147]

I truly doubt it, since the professor Itakura or whatever his name is. While being monitored wrote a secret diary that said that he should have and did stopped the programming for the sake of humanity, if the drug is meant to save a cure then this contradicts Itakura's words. Unless he is a meanie XD, which is unlikely..

is this true? lol I've got alot of catching up to do.

But anyway, if it's true, then it destroys the immortality theory too.

[Chekhov MacGuffin 1089]

I truly doubt it, since the professor Itakura or whatever his name is. While being monitored wrote a secret diary that said that he should have and did stopped the programming for the sake of humanity, if the drug is meant to save a cure then this contradicts Itakura's words. Unless he is a meanie XD, which is unlikely..

But anyway, if it's true, then it destroys the immortality theory too.

To be fair, not all people think immortality is a great idea. If an immortality drug is invented I would consider it a huge disaster. I oppose the concept pretty strongly because I believe that ideas will stagnate without death. People become set in their thoughts and ways as they age, so humanity as a whole would no longer be able to improve rapidly.

Itakura might not have been working on immortality anyway. It's possible that Itakura's program was meant to help the BO's goal in another way: http://www.detectiveconanworld.com/forum/topic/1658-purpose-of-that-computer-program-by-itakura/

[Metantei Kiddo 147]

To be fair, not all people think immortality is a great idea. If an immortality drug is invented I would consider it a huge disaster. I oppose the concept pretty strongly because I believe that ideas will stagnate without death. People become set in their thoughts and ways as they age, so humanity as a whole would no longer be able to improve rapidly.Itakura might not have been working on immortality anyway. It's possible that Itakura's program was meant to help the BO's goal in another way: http://www.detectiveconanworld.com/forum/topic/1658-purpose-of-that-computer-program-by-itakura/

I dunno about this. It's a 50-50 belief. 50% thinks immortality is great. The other 50% believes the other way. http://www.debate.org/opinions/should-scientists-pursue-immortality

Anyway, I'm a bit off topic.

I think it's gonna come down to Gosho's belief about this. If he thinks immortality is great, then it's pretty debunked but otherwise, it's plausible. We have no way of knowing it, though.

[Chekhov MacGuffin 1089]

I think it's gonna come down to Gosho's belief about this. If he thinks immortality is great, then it's pretty debunked but otherwise, it's plausible. We have no way of knowing it, though.

Gosho said that he often uses Haibara as a voice for his own ideas.

Haibara's lines are my true intentions

I: The lines that Haibara says when she's merely muttering to herself are impressive and actually very poetic.

A: The only person thinking them up is me, so I struggle with it. She herself is an easy character to write, because the things she says, I could say in real life. The things I couldn't have Conan say inspire what Haibara says. And you could say that those things are my true intentions. If there were someone that killed a person to protect a bear, Haibara would look at them with an angry face and say "You can't take animal rights that far", but if it were Conan he would say some harsh words. Because they'll say some indiscreet line with a stern face, Haibara and Kogoro are valuable.

Remember Haibara's quote: "You can't complain about time going by... If anyone tries to change it... Life will punish them."

[Metantei Kiddo 147]

Gosho said that he often uses Haibara as a voice for his own ideas.

Haibara's lines are my true intentionsI: The lines that Haibara says when she's merely muttering to herself are impressive and actually very poetic.A: The only person thinking them up is me, so I struggle with it. She herself is an easy character to write, because the things she says, I could say in real life. The things I couldn't have Conan say inspire what Haibara says. And you could say that those things are my true intentions. If there were someone that killed a person to protect a bear, Haibara would look at them with an angry face and say "You can't take animal rights that far", but if it were Conan he would say some harsh words. Because they'll say some indiscreet line with a stern face, Haibara and Kogoro are valuable.

Remember Haibara's quote: "You can't complain about time going by... If anyone tries to change it... Life will punish them."

I remember that interview, now.

And with that quote, I would say it's a plausible theory then, if that's the case.

This also makes the Raising of the Dead possible too

But anyway, I honestly believe that there's more to this.

[Akazora 292]

To be fair, not all people think immortality is a great idea. If an immortality drug is invented I would consider it a huge disaster. I oppose the concept pretty strongly because I believe that ideas will stagnate without death. People become set in their thoughts and ways as they age, so humanity as a whole would no longer be able to improve rapidly.

Itakura might not have been working on immortality anyway. It's possible that Itakura's program was meant to help the BO's goal in another way: http://www.detectiveconanworld.com/forum/topic/1658-purpose-of-that-computer-program-by-itakura/

That's actually a side to the argument I never considered; only really ever thought of the "overpopulation" aspect of it.

 

Not really feeling my "cure cancer" theory anymore either, unless the drug had some kind of crazy side effect.  Like the offspring of those cured grew up to be super regenerating humans with enough brain capacity to take down the entire Black Organization in their sleep, or something impossible like that.

[Kirsch 95]

I think Aoyama-sensei mentioned something about the BO trying to get power through its extensive reach? It was probably in an interview, but someone will have to dig that up for me...

However, the immortality thing is very possible, considering the little hints and pieces that are dropped throughout the series. Then again, the immortality aspect would completely change people's point of view on the Organization. It would be the Magic Kaito organization all over again, wouldn't it?

[Metantei Kiddo 147]

That's actually a side to the argument I never considered; only really ever thought of the "overpopulation" aspect of it.

Not really feeling my "cure cancer" theory anymore either, unless the drug had some kind of crazy side effect. Like the offspring of those cured grew up to be super regenerating humans with enough brain capacity to take down the entire Black Organization in their sleep, or something impossible like that.

Same... I think it would do the otherway around, if in any case at all. I mean imagine Einstein being alive for a long time or any other great scientist.

I think Aoyama-sensei mentioned something about the BO trying to get power through its extensive reach? It was probably in an interview, but someone will have to dig that up for me...

However, the immortality thing is very possible, considering the little hints and pieces that are dropped throughout the series. Then again, the immortality aspect would completely change people's point of view on the Organization. It would be the Magic Kaito organization all over again, wouldn't it?

There was an interview like that. And Gosho seems to be fond of hard science fiction (look at his short stories) so it's a possible theory.

Anyway, Gosho loves doing cliches lol. I mean the childhood friend turning into serious relationship, murder motives and stuffs. So, i think it's possible for Gosho repeats to repeat the same thing.

But still the theory doesn't convince me at all. There are still things that doesn't add up and I feel like there's more deeper motive or purpose.

[Kirsch 95]

There was an interview like that. And Gosho seems to be fond of hard science fiction (look at his short stories) so it's a possible theory.

Anyway, Gosho loves doing cliches lol. I mean the childhood friend turning into serious relationship, murder motives and stuffs. So, i think it's possible for Gosho repeats to repeat the same thing.

But still the theory doesn't convince me at all. There are still things that doesn't add up and I feel like there's more deeper motive or purpose.

Are you talking about a deeper purpose than immortality?

If you are, I'm not really buying it either. Magic Kaito was one thing; having immortality pop up as the goal of their organization isn't so weird, especially after Akako. However, with the BO, it doesn't really fit their MO. I can't imagine Gin working for a boss that's going after something that exists in fairy tales and such.

They did mention that the BO started sometime around 50 years ago. I keep on wondering if that would help with anything... After all, 50 years before the debut of DC was 1944, right during World War II (and we all know what part Japan played in it). It's just random trivia, and I don't know how that'll hold up since it's been another 20 years since 1994 (and nowhere near the end).

[Metantei Kiddo 147]

Are you talking about a deeper purpose than immortality?

If you are, I'm not really buying it either. Magic Kaito was one thing; having immortality pop up as the goal of their organization isn't so weird, especially after Akako. However, with the BO, it doesn't really fit their MO. I can't imagine Gin working for a boss that's going after something that exists in fairy tales and such.

They did mention that the BO started sometime around 50 years ago. I keep on wondering if that would help with anything... After all, 50 years before the debut of DC was 1944, right during World War II (and we all know what part Japan played in it). It's just random trivia, and I don't know how that'll hold up since it's been another 20 years since 1994 (and nowhere near the end).

yeah. And btw, what do you you're not buying it either? you mean the immortality?

But anyway, that made me think. Come to think of it? It was just at the period of wars. I think we need to delve deeper to this.

[Kirsch 95]

yeah. And btw, what do you you're not buying it either? you mean the immortality?

But anyway, that made me think. Come to think of it? It was just at the period of wars. I think we need to delve deeper to this.

Yeah, I'm also talking about the immortality. It's just too... Extreme, I guess. But one could always argue that de-aging someone is technically immortality. I wonder... If immortality was the goal, and they were planning to achieve it through the APTX, then why didn't Gin or Vodka or anyone check for kids that match with the description of previous victims? I mean, if you wanted to aim for immorality/de-aging, wouldn't you decide to play it safe (especially with Anokata's rep) by having someone regularly check to see if, by some weird miracle-accident, that the drug did, in fact, work?

About the timeline: I doubt Aoyama-sensei forgot where he placed the dates, and just happened to land on the Second World War, especially when he's writing a mystery series. I do remember that he said something about not expecting DC to be such a big hit, and was planning for it to go for only 3 months or something? In that case, I would be really suspicious.

However, he has decided to drag the series out for so long that you begin questioning how characters from that long ago started getting Touchscreens. Does this mean that the 50-year thing was insignificant to what he planned the overall plot to be? If it is, he would've had to revise things, big time.

[Metantei Kiddo 147]

Yeah, I'm also talking about the immortality. It's just too... Extreme, I guess. But one could always argue that de-aging someone is technically immortality. I wonder... If immortality was the goal, and they were planning to achieve it through the APTX, then why didn't Gin or Vodka or anyone check for kids that match with the description of previous victims? I mean, if you wanted to aim for immorality/de-aging, wouldn't you decide to play it safe (especially with Anokata's rep) by having someone regularly check to see if, by some weird miracle-accident, that the drug did, in fact, work?

About the timeline: I doubt Aoyama-sensei forgot where he placed the dates, and just happened to land on the Second World War, especially when he's writing a mystery series. I do remember that he said something about not expecting DC to be such a big hit, and was planning for it to go for only 3 months or something? In that case, I would be really suspicious.

However, he has decided to drag the series out for so long that you begin questioning how characters from that long ago started getting Touchscreens. Does this mean that the 50-year thing was insignificant to what he planned the overall plot to be? If it is, he would've had to revise things, big time.

Yeah, I'll agree at the members not checking something but I think there's a counter argument for it, and that is, it could be for the sake of the plot.

And for the 50-year thing, it's really probable.

Anyway, there's an interview where Gosho is like, he's trying to stay as modern as possible in terms of the things in the series.

[Kirsch 95]

Yeah, I'll agree at the members not checking something but I think there's a counter argument for it, and that is, it could be for the sake of the plot.

And for the 50-year thing, it's really probable.

Anyway, there's an interview where Gosho is like, he's trying to stay as modern as possible in terms of the things in the series.

For the sake of the plot, huh? It's really starting to bother me now, considering this would slash down a good potion of the immortality argument. But Aoyama-sensei can't exactly cover everything, I guess.

Yeah, he did state something about drawing the season that he sees outside his window, and making sure the characters aren't stuck in time. Comic-book time can be such a pain. >.<

If it does have something to do with WWII (as in, if), then what would it be? Would it be somewhere along the lines of a would-be boss having an epiphany in the middle of high tensions, or would it be based off of some historical event (therefore having DC's universe running parallel to ours)?

[Metantei Kiddo 147]

For the sake of the plot, huh? It's really starting to bother me now, considering this would slash down a good potion of the immortality argument. But Aoyama-sensei can't exactly cover everything, I guess.

Yeah, he did state something about drawing the season that he sees outside his window, and making sure the characters aren't stuck in time. Comic-book time can be such a pain. >.<

If it does have something to do with WWII (as in, if), then what would it be? Would it be somewhere along the lines of a would-be boss having an epiphany in the middle of high tensions, or would it be based off of some historical event (therefore having DC's universe running parallel to ours)?

yup for the sake of it. Just look at Kogoro and Sonoko. They don't even have a clue who's making them asleep or they don't even care at all. We could make theories on why they ignore it but no matter how we look at it, it's a cheap way to make the plot still rigid.

Anyway, or it could be the boss lost someone in the war and he's making a drug that returns someone back into time.

[Shinan-Kudogawa 26]

yup for the sake of it. Just look at Kogoro and Sonoko. They don't even have a clue who's making them asleep or they don't even care at all. We could make theories on why they ignore it but no matter how we look at it, it's a cheap way to make the plot still rigid.

Anyway, or it could be the boss lost someone in the war and he's making a drug that returns someone back into time.

True, but it might be plot related. We can't assume without evidence, we need someone with lots of free time to research the series far deeper than ever in order to reveal the one and only truth

[Metantei Kiddo 147]

True, but it might be plot related. We can't assume without evidence, we need someone with lots of free time to research the series far deeper than ever in order to reveal the one and only truth

No need! We have our DC Scholar here, Chekhov. I think the truth lies with her theories

[Shinan-Kudogawa 26]

No need! We have our DC Scholar here, Chekhov. I think the truth lies with her theories

'Her'. I thought it was a he....XD my mistake...Anyways, I'm sure Chekhov's collected theories should bring more light to the mystery. But I also believe there is something still missing, something important that no one noticed. Something that will help reveal everything, I'd better finish all my studies so I can rewatch the whole series and reread the manga all over to search for other hints.. 

[Metantei Kiddo 147]

'Her'. I thought it was a he....XD my mistake...Anyways, I'm sure Chekhov's collected theories should bring more light to the mystery. But I also believe there is something still missing, something important that no one noticed. Something that will help reveal everything, I'd better finish all my studies so I can rewatch the whole series and reread the manga all over to search for other hints..

yeah it's 'her'

Anyway, I think you cannot completely solve the plot with the current clues right now. I think Gosho will say it directly if there's enough clue already.

[Shinan-Kudogawa 26]

yeah it's 'her'

Anyway, I think you cannot completely solve the plot with the current clues right now. I think Gosho will say it directly if there's enough clue already.

 

Well Gosho-san won't say if there's enough clues, as he would love to tease DC's fans as much as evident...Maybe one day myself or any other fan would reveal the truth before Gosho-san reveal it...