Chekhov MacGuffin
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Posts posted by Chekhov MacGuffin
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1 hour ago, DCUniverseAficionado said:Sorry, but I'm not getting it.
Ran was trying to cheer her up, and Kazuha seemed happy with her doing that. So I'd say it was more of a sweet little moment than "melodrama" and "funny..." sorry, I'm still not getting how you got those two things out of that scene.
Melodrama because it was supposed to be a dramatic and somewhat serious moment given backdrop and the way their characters were presented. It wasn't a lighthearted, goofy moment.
As for my point, try to imagine that scene played out by your real life friends in your head, and what their honest reactions would be. The boyfriend of one of your besties stood her up, and she's kinda down about it, so you -out of the complete blue- try to imitate his voice and confess love to your friend. .... Yeah.
9 times out of 10, assuming your friends are semi-average, will give you a wtf look and some awkward giggling. Hopefully you didn't hurt their feelings by reminding them they got stood up (even if it was for good reasons). Maybe you have a chill friend and they break out laughing. The last thing that would realistically happen is staring deeply into each others eyes while blushing, unless you and your friend are secretly crushing on one another. And that's why I thought this scene was awkward as hell .
It's a "cute moment" in the same sense that a "culprit's gun can fire bullets which curve around corners" could be a murder trick. You can certainly use it, but some people are going to drop their suspension of disbelief.
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That Ran-Kazuha confession scene was really, really weird. It seems like Gosho was going for some sort of melodrama, but it just didn't work. Ran suddenly trying to impersonate Heiji and pretty viciously rubbing in the fact that a murder case has yet again gotten in the way of finalizing the relationship seems like it should be played off as funny. But the scene was serious. Nobody laughed. And thus it was weird and awkward.
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I just want to get this out of the way, but there is a negative 100% chance that Rum is...
#1 Going to be the fetch pet of a high school girl.
#2 Occupy a bottom-feeding plot role as the underling of a third wheel.
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Thanks for bringing it up again. I would like to put it to rest. The whole argument seemed to rest on an incongruity between "How a Japanese speaker thinks a concept should be translated into English" (mail address) and "How an English speaker would actually translate that concept" (phone number). I always thought it was pretty obviously a phone number given how it was actually used.
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On 12/20/2016 at 9:26 AM, Serinox said:I wonder how such a mistake happens. Like, I can see that e.g. forgetting to draw a face mask in one panel (like in the Department Store case) can happen, but this? Accidentally drawing what clearly was supposed to be Shuukichi with a childrens body instead of an high schoolers body...
I am going to assume Gosho was rushing and not crosschecking reference notes for when things happen and thus got the relative ages wrong. Or maybe something even weirder happened and he meant to draw Masumi instead of Shuukichi. Either way, his editor should have been paying attention and pointed out the inconsistency. Kor pointed out there were many incongruous scenes in the flashback that simply contradicted earlier lead-up panels. The whole Akai flashback case was kind of messy and pretty odd anyway.
Personally, I think the flashback's plot was either a last minute extreme rush job that wasn't outlined properly beforehand or there must have been some serious logical or plot problem that required a total last minute rework.
I am kinda glad it got fixed because I remember everyone in the forums and cbox was real confused when that panel appeared. The apparent age difference between the kid and Shuukichi started a lot of arguments about who the child was.
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6 hours ago, MeiTanteixX said:Or, He really was listening to music, and what he heard in the song(as mentioned in the side-notes) is that same poem, before the others, and then relayed those lyrics to them.
Realistically, what Japanese songs recite Hyakunin Isshu poems? And who just hangs out listening to music with one earbud in during a murder case? He's communicating with someone. Maybe Gosho will drop a hint in the third chapter. Again, my bet is the movie Momiji girl.
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I wouldn't be surprised if the boss has a Western connection, but the Nanatsu no ko song is a dead giveaway the boss spent a good deal of time in/was raised in Japan. Nobody outside of Japan is familiar with that tune. All known confirmed facts about the boss are listed on the wiki page. If it's not there, it's probably a rumor. The boss's nationality has not been confirmed at this point.
To be fair, the FBI may only be involved with the BO because the BO extended its reach from Japan to the United States (and possibly other countries like England), and caused criminal trouble that attracted the domestic agency. The FBI may not have realized right away they were dealing with an international mafia-like organization. Also the FBI actually has overseas offices attached to embassies, including one in Japan. They help with crimes that cross national boundaries.
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17 hours ago, Serinox said:Of course the connection is there (maybe because Gosho helped greatly with the research for the movie script and is now recycling the new knowledge of Hyakunin Isshu), though the way this guy was set-up seems too badass/cool for Gosho to just have him be another character for the movie. Plus, he gave himself the localized name of Dr. Watson from the first Japanese translation of A Study in Scarlet before they also used the original names over there (even with the exact same kanji and with claiming to be medical personnel he even has a similar profession) and I really doubt that Gosho would give that to a character that is not relevant to the main plot of the manga but rather a side story that's currently more important for Movie 21.
Didn't know that. That's pretty clever.
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18 hours ago, Jimmy-kud0-tv2 said:For me, I'm not really sure if this is a thing or not, but every 30-mins to an hour I have to refresh a forums tab to make it say that I am logged in to the wiki. Other wise it registers me as logged out and treats me like an anonymous user. Its been doing that for a while now, but since I have like 20 tabs anyway I just keep one open.
Funny enough, in the past I had some issues in the forums where it showed me logged in as Maurice. I could see a moderator type menu on the left hand of my screen that popped out by clicking a pop out arrow. However I didn't actually have any permissions of any kind and the menu thing was blank. I could also see everyone's IP addresses while in the messages menu, which is not normally there on my account. I seem to remember it being something that had to do with Securi assigning the same IP address to him, me, and another user who was experiencing the same issue as well as the Caching System .
Below is the message I sent to him at the time, I don't have access to the other ones. That caution triangle isn't normally there on my screen either, I'm guessing its a mod thing as well ?
I have the same problem with refreshing forum periodically to keep me logged in.
Yeah, the IPs and the caution triangle are mod things. I haven't had any problems in the forums transforming into other people's accounts. It only seems to be a wiki file thing.
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This is a pretty out there idea, but maybe this new guy isn't plot, but instead related to the movie character Momiji Ooka? This is a Hattori case, and the guy mentioned something to do with Hyakunin Isshu karuta, which is the sport Momiji Ooka is a champion in. Maybe she sent the guy as a stalker to keep Heiji and Kazuha from having a good time because, uh, vague handwavey women-can-be-creepy-and-possessive reasons? And he is telling her what is going on and listening to her through the earpiece? That might explain the sudden Hyakunin Isshu recital at the end of the case after listening to someone on the earpiece.
Also the guy's "fake" last name being the same as Ran's Hyde High rival Hina Wada is something to think about too. Both names he used are people connected to Ran, even though he spelled Shinichi differently.
Also, some "medical personnel" he is. He did jack to help the injured vic...
I dunno, I think I'm letting personal bias create excuses for this guy not to be a valid Rum suspect or main plot involved, because I don't want there to me more suspects than we already have...
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Let’s talk case! I like the case so far. It's a simple, yet solid locked room setup and the first case to have me excited for a while now. I hope the solution is equally as good!
Here's my rundown as I see it.
The obvious reason why no one has blood on them is because either 1) the attempted murder was done at a relative distance, 2) The culprit used a shield that was quickly disposed of. Both are reasonable options, although the disposal one needs somewhere good to stash the shield which there are not many of in the store and personal belongings. To figure out which one was used, we need to examine the circumstances of the crime in greater detail.
Right away there is a contradiction to note. There was a massive splash of blood, yet the knife is mostly clean except for the tip. That’s pretty odd considering even Conan and Hattori got some. That suggests to me the knife was mostly shielded. If you tried to put a knife on a stick like a makeshift naginata or fired it on a crossbow, the blood would get even on the handle. So, I think the answer to the above question is that the shielded method was used.
(You could front a more complicated explanation, like the knife is a decoy and real weapon is something else, but then how would you get real fresh blood on it in the right pattern? Was the blood fake? That’s making things pretty complicated when usually the simplest explanation is the most likely.)
We also know blood splashes out from the wound when the knife in withdrawn. That means the direction of the stabbing was roughly from an angle arc covering Hattori's table to the table. That matches up with Tengo's posture art at the time of the blackout and apparent stabbing in the dark. I do notice Tengo seemed to be swiveling in the dark scene, like someone was behind him was grabbing for a reach-around stab…
So, I might as well cut right to the chase. I think Oozumi Meisuke came out of the bathroom in the dark to stab Anzai Tengo, with Yamashita Yui as an accomplice. He then retreated to the bathroom and tossed out the shield and the item he used to see through the frosted glass. The two practiced on the replica Poirot set.
Problem one: how Oozumi could see where everyone is sitting through a frosted window.
Solved with the scotch tape on his present for Yui. There are some cheats that let you look through frosted glass, but only if it is the right kind of frosted glass and you are on the right side of it. Assuming detective conan logic, the situation is almost always to the culprit's advantage. You simply paste the scotch tape on the rough side of the window.
Then you can peel it off after peeking and toss it out. Then Oozumi waits for that weird computer boot up sound to alert him that it is go time soon.
Problem two: how Oozumi could avoid a blood splash.
Solved with Yui’s scarf, which she handed him in the dark. She took it off when she sat down, and then it was unaccounted for later in the crime scene investigation. Oozumi took it back with him into the bathroom. He could easily toss it out the bathroom window, a window that overlooks trashcans in an alley that Kogoro once climbed out of to run away from café Poirot in an earlier case (57-8 (594) p4. It's hard to tell, but I don't think the frosted glass existed at that time :P.)
Motive-wise, I think the previous theater club leader intended to shank someone, which explains why he built an exact set. He just never got to put his plan into practice and the other two took his idea for later use.
So, let’s rule out some other people. Shinichi Wada, although suspicious, was blocked by Amuro’s big fat butt in the only walking space between Hattori and Conan’s table and the bar. Nagatsuka Minoru could have done the stabbing with Yui as an accomplice, but had nowhere to dispose of any item to block the blood splash. Amuro, Azusa, Hattori, and Conan have no motive. -
I noticed some odd problems when looking specifically at "file" pages on the wiki. One of the problems is file pages showing I am not logged in, when mainspace pages, special pages, and the forum show I am (inconvenient when I want my mod options to pop up like to delete images).
Today, I had an error that I can definitely say was not related to caching... A file page shows me logged in as Jimmy-kud0-tv2 which is definitely not right, as we are different people. Maybe not-so coincidentally, he is the one who uploaded the image. Basically the little shortcut menu had his name where mine should be in the upper right, and it looked like I had normal user permissions. (Even though I can manually bring up mod only special pages just fine). It mostly seems to be cosmetic, Clicking preferences and watchlist shows me my own, not Jimmy's. I am pretty sure if someone else sees themselves logged in as me, they can't use mod options as those are on the special pages which still seem to work right. Is any one else seeing this problem when looking at file pages?
http://www.detectiveconanworld.com/wiki/images/e/e5/Im_jimmy_now.jpg
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A device-based case <3
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7 hours ago, Kurara-chan said:It's so unlikely that it will be a twist of they are actually a team.
One can only hope that plot will be moving forward instead constant stream of new BO member candidates...
Nah, the beginning of the arc is always a new stream of candidates, if the Bourbon arc is an good model. Expect late arrivals too. We are moving forward in the plot, it's just in info trickle mode and not action mode now.
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On 11/20/2016 at 2:11 PM, Serinox said:But that was his point. Rumi is pronounced and written "Rumi" and Rum is pronounced and written "Ramu". Wakasa and Asaca sound more similar, but still different enough that the average Japanese reader might be oblivious to it.
With this kind of thing it might be better to move outside of the realm of maybes and actually see if any Japanese people are surprised in discussions online.
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Anyway, I know I have been off doing my own thing and going so far at to neglect posting case solutions for the monthly cases, but I did manage to get out an update to the vision analysis sheet.
Wakasa Rumi's numbers are still not in satisfactory range to call her like I called Sakurako Yonehara (right now she has only half of the desirable amount of data meaning the numbers are pretty volatile), but overall her numbers are still trending towards being fully sighted.
The other side of the evidence is that she doesn't seem to be overturning like Kansuke does in either this case or her introductory one. There have been several good panels so far where both she and someone else are standing side by side, and both are turning their heads to look at something. She doesn't overturn more than her same-panel comparison character. Her clumsiness, real or more likely fake and deliberate, is apparently something that she is doing with full vision.
Wakita Kanenori's numbers in certain categories (RR:SR) started out of the gate looking like Kansuke's, which was nice to see validated because it helps me confirm my suspicions that Gosho does have certain artistic choice quirks that can be used against him in absence of enough other clues. Wakita is off my suspect list for now because I believe his claim that his eye injury is temporary and not permanent like Rum's is. He claimed to have aspirations to work the sushi counter, the soft medical dressing he wears is a type of temporary disposable eyepad to promote healing, and he even offered to show the wound which a more cautious individual might not risk.
I already noted that Hyoue Kuroda is a bit unusual because he does not turn his head or eyes much (78.2% SS). So I tabulated his now boss, Kiyonaga Matsumoto, to use as the comparison case for bulky geezers (Since Matsumoto is the bulkiest geezer among the protagonists, as opposed to just being fat). The can-shaped-head Superintendent+ was within the usual 50-65% straight head and straight eyes range. This definitely could be a clue that characters who overwhelmingly face and look straight are hiding an eye problem. In that case, Chikara Katsumata should be given careful consideration in his next appearance, as he has an even higher 78.9% SS from his first two appearances (which to be fair only amounts to 19 panels able to be considered).
Lastly, I've decided not to do Mary as she is the obvious schmuck bait of the Rum candidates - Rum isn't going to be the one poisoned with APTX, who knows Conan's secret, and popped out 3 Akais. Gosho pretty often has one trash suspect you can axe pretty quick, and Mary seems to be it for this arc.
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I have been super busy lately IRL, so I haven't had a lot of time to do forum stuff other than bare bones moderation. If someone gets an index going, I'll pin it.
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On 9/24/2016 at 0:32 AM, AnimeOtakuDrew said:I am getting really tired of this "if it's not in the manga it doesn't matter" BS. The manga is great because without it there wouldn't be a Detective Conan anime, but these people that troll the forums throwing out posts like "if it didn't happen in the manga, it's not real," "if that character wasn't in the manga, they don't really exist," and so on. I thought I might get away from it coming specifically to the anime forum, but I'm seeing it here too! And I'm appalled!
You seem to be lumping two groups of people who are rather different: There is type 1) the fans who complain about AOs because they believe they are not as good on average, and type 2) the fans who are dismissive of AOs because they don't impact the main storyline significantly.
I sympathize with the type 1s some. The early AOs were pretty good, but the modern ones generally aren't as good as Gosho's mysteries. There are some exceptional standout AOs, and I generally like the mystery tours because they show interesting cultural tidbits, but otherwise I don't feel like AOs are worth my time. I am a type 2, because I hardly have time to deal with anything but the main manga canon.
If you are in DC mainly for the ride, manga canonicity vs anime/movie canonicity doesn't really matter. If you are in DC because you want to play detective and uncover who the BO boss is and the mystery behind the BO's true plan, then you have to be picky. In a series like this, a fan who watches and enjoys everything, AOs included, and one that specializes in manga canon only are equally "True".
As Jimmy said, canonicity matters to theories. In a mystery series, facts are important and they have repercussions. The only way to guarantee you have accurate facts is to only get them from the person who knows the true answers to everything in full detail: Gosho Aoyama. The anime has historically screwed over anyone trying to solve the arc mysteries. There were continuous mistakes and alterations: from creating plotholes that made it impossible for Conan to learn Gin and Vodka's codenames, to missing clues that made it impossible for an anime watcher to solve Akai's faked death. It really is in only the past 4-5 years that the anime has been consistently right on clues and matters of the plot. In general, only the manga and interviews and whatnot are guaranteed to be accurate without enlarging or distorting things for dramatic effect.
The other issue is that it can take year+ to fully catch up in the show. DC is freaking long. The manga is nearing 1000 chapters. If you streamed the anime and movies and specials continuously, 24 hours a day, skipping all openings and endings, you would have to stay awake ~20 days straight to watch it all. If you decided to spend an hour watching DC every night to catch up, it would take you a year and four months. If you were paid $8 an hour to watch DC, then when you got current, you will have earned, ~$3800 dollars. Assuming you have school or a job, that's not an easy time commitment to make. Many people shortcut by ignoring AOs because they want to get current quickly. It's dismissive of AOs, but a reasonable and understandable move.
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http://www.detectiveconanworld.com/wiki/User:Chekhov_MacGuffin/Karasuma_Renya
This page is meant to clear up some misunderstandings about Karasuma Renya caused by bad translations and subtitles. Credit to jimmy_kud0_tv2 and Kor who did the research.
- The crow association doesn't exist. It's a mistranslation of Karasuma Renya's name.
- The Kaizou Subs also completely skip the line where it says that Karasuma Renya inherited the mansion from his mother. They just leave the line "He told me he always wanted to find the treasure" on the screen when Senma is explaining the inheritance thing. (Quote from jimmy_kud0_tv2)
- In the Kaizou subs version of the anime, during the scene where Detective Mogi, Mouri, and Conan find the piano and the note hidden between the keys, Mogi states that the tragedy rumor and the riddle are "all true and relevant" ... However the word used in both the manga and anime in Japanese is "mayutsuba" meaning "false / counterfeit", which is the exact opposite of what the subtitles say. (Quote from jimmy_kud0_tv2)
- Karasuma Renya later finds the clues about the King, Queen, and Knight and begins paying people to see if they can solve the riddle. At the end of the case, Senma tries to say that Karasuma was still alive 40 years ago when her father was hired to solve the riddle. Karasuma was killing the people he invited to solve the riddle as motivation to find the treasure quicker. This contradicts the earlier story that is told about two strangers and marijuana on several points. 1. Both events happened 40 years ago. 2. Both events caused massive amounts of blood to be spilled. 3. Karasuma was still alive at 40 years ago even though the story said he died "half a century ago". (Quote from jimmy_kud0_tv2)
In other words, Renya wasn't smart enough to solve the riddle of his own house.
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The forum update seemed to bork the poll so i couldn't update it any more, so I had to recreate the poll and the thread to fix it. Please revote and reupdate your subscriptions. Apologies for the inconvenience.
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10 hours ago, MeiTanteixX said:you might've noticed if you've read my fan manga, but I don't agree with this. There are numerous hints pointing to that she never intended to get close to Haibara when she joined Teitan and she never knew of Sherry's whereabouts(or shrunken state) until much later:
Vermouth found out Conan was Shinichi and Ai was Sherry at the Mourning Party. The most direct and obvious hint is that she told Vodka after the resolution of the Hyde City Hotel case that there is something "unsettling" on her mind and that a sudden reason to stay in Japan had come up. It's not like she could explain to Vodka what she saw, but it is the only reason that makes perfect sense. Pisco spotted Ai and Conan was right near Ai when that photography situation occurred, so there is no reason Vermouth didn't spot the same. Conan also took off his glasses and gave them to Haibara. Why did Gosho have Shinichi do that? To give Vermouth a reason to recognize Shinichi right away by removing his one mediocre defense against being recognized! The FBI hadn't made any moves on Vermouth at that point. The absolute proof is that Vermouth was unaware of Jodie's fake death plan for Araide when they discussed it at the shipping yard, she found the FBI were after her when they broke in her office but not before. Thus the FBI can't be her reason for staying in Japan. That leaves Conan and Ai.
The other thing that strongly points to Vermouth knowing from the beginning is that she chose to replace Araide after the Hyde City Hotel case and before the Mistaken Detectives case, when Ran said that Araide had transferred from the basketball to drama club. That's pretty much right away. Knowing the kids' identities from the beginning is the only explanation that explains why Vermouth had to take the massive risk of replacing Araide instead of doing the easy thing and creating a new character.
Vermouth had three goals: put herself in a position where she can 1) manipulate Ai and Conan without suspicion, 2) kill Ai while leaving Conan and Ran alone. Joining the school as someone who regularly interact with kids would be best, so she would want to be a teacher or a school nurse. But here is the thing, it is way easier to come up with someone new than to replace someone pre-existing who has many relationships and a complex specialized skillset. Replacements get caught if you mess up, whereas new people have no attached expectations. That is why most of Yukiko's disguises are randoms and not copies. Even Kaitou Kid who has magic masks tends to become random police or civilians when he needs to make a quick getaway or scout. That makes Vermouth's choice to replace Araide, a doctor with many contacts, relationships, and highly specialized knowledge, very strange unless Vermouth had established goals from the beginning - getting close to Ai and Conan. She replaced Araide because she needed to be extra sneaky: if Haibara reacted, Conan would suspect new people first. Araide has a history with the school, so is less suspicious.
A key point is that many people don't realize is that Vermouth was lying when she told Jodie that she needed the FBI to find Shiho. She already found Shiho. Part of the first half of the confrontation and all those office scenes were an act for the FBI in order to manipulate the FBI's movements. Her office space had been invaded so it couldn't be considered private anymore. Anything said aloud or written or left out visible risks being intercepted. The FBI bugged Agasa's phone to listen in on Araide's conversation, but Vermouth knew it was bugged and used the situation to her advantage. Vermouth left the picture of Shiho in the office so she could eventually set up the scenario where Jodie grabs Ai as a lure, takes her to a secluded place thinking her FBI comrades were going to get Vermouth too, but Vermouth would turn the tables and kill the lone Ai and Jodie with help from Calvados. She admitted she had been planning this grand movement since after the Mysterious Passenger. She tried to get close to Conan and Ai on a bus but Jodie (with Akai as backup, so it must have been a move the FBI sensed as serious) blocked her. After that she stole and returned Mouri's case files to lure out the FBI as explained in the confrontation case.
In the busjack, I don't know if Vermouth was actually planning on making a move on Ai, or if she was trying to figure out how much the FBI could find out about her actions and thus how badly her security is compromised, or both. I do know Akai doesn't know about Ai yet at the end of the case because he says that the target, as in Vermouth's target Shiho, never showed. Jodie seems to start to figure things out though.
The second part is that Vermouth can't admit that Shiho shrunk into Ai. She is trying to protect the secret of the two kids shrinking/not aging pretty desperately from anyone, including other BO, for reasons we still don't know for sure but can kinda guess at (Conan = one of her two angels is part of it). She didn't tell Jodie anything when Jodie interrogated her on why she was targeting a child that looked like Shiho, or why Conan was "cool guy" and not "cool kid", or why she wasn't aging. There's no way Vermouth is going to directly admit to Jodie that she knew Shiho is Ai, because that would confirm the shrinking. That seems like a minor technicality because Jodie is almost at the truth, but that's how it is for Vermouth; she doesn't give even an inch on those topics.
In the hints you cited, first you must be aware that the office scenes are not chronologically concurrent with the current timeline. Gosho was being especially tricky, hoping the reader would assume the office scenes were concurrent with the other events. They are not concurrent and there is 100% proof that at least one of the office scenes occurs long before it was shown in the manga. In Jodie's intro case (272), she calls Conan "Cool Guy" meaning she saw the pictures prior to her intro (270). Jodie in 433 described the picture of Shiho as pinned to the dartboard with a dart meaning that the office raid came after Vermouth threw the dart at Shiho's picture. Even though Vermouth is shown throwing the dart into Shiho's picture in the office scene from 340, it must have occurred before Jodie's intro case (270). Also it is unlikely Vermouth has thrown more than one dart and then removed it later because there are no other dart-holes.
Second, Vermouth lies a lot. When she tells Gin or the FBI she hasn't found what she is looking for, keep in mind she doesn't trust them. Actionwise, Vermouth seemed to know where Conan and Ai were from the start, and in DC actions speak louder than words.
Thirdly, I explained above that her office has been invaded soon after she became Araide. Theatrically announcing she was coming for Ai could very well be for the FBI's benefit since she knew her security had been compromised in some way and they were watching her. Therefore we can't trust what Vermouth says too much in those scenes.
8 hours ago, DCUniverseAficionado said:Perilous? If Asaka really is Rum and is not Rumi, then I'm wrong, and that's that... it'll have been my third choice, which I considered unlikely, but possible.
It really is though. I've watched the entire Bourbon arc play out the internet from Red vs Black to Rum in English and in German. The people who insisted on complexity from the beginning before there were reasons to are the ones who later got wed to their theories and if/when those failed preferred to jump ship to similarly over-complex ones because they got into a rut by insisting the simpler versions were wrong. The German forum had an especially hard time of this with the hyper complicated Shuuichi Akai is Bourbon and then later Akai is a double agent working for the BO theory. I'm not saying that you can't play with ideas like Asaka is Rumi or Mary right now, but I see signs that you and MeiTanteixX are going beyond playing and looking clingy. I'm worried that it's going to define you and prevent you from being able to backtrack if/when the time to jump to a new theory ship comes. The vanilla default is still reasonable, and Gosho can take the arc in a different direction than you anticipated.
10 hours ago, MeiTanteixX said:I'd find it odd if the BO couldn't at the very least figure out the possibility that it might be saying "Asaca Rum"(like how Conan and Shuu did).
They do know! That's why Vermouth and Bourbon went to the concert and Asaka ran off with the mirror. I explained that above in the section you quoted.
@dccd
its quite worth noticing that Sakurako actually appeared in cases other potential Rum-chars were in as well.
But not with them at the same time. That's my important distinction.
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18 minutes ago, Black Demon said:Btw I just realized something funny. If one really wants to force Rumi into the dying message then there's the first half of the wing pattern missing. So what is the first half of "WING"? It's "W-I" of course! And piecing it together with the rest of the missing letters we get "WAKASA RUMI"!
The unexplained "NG" is NG.
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6 hours ago, Shinan-Kudogawa said:As for the rivalry, is it going to be the same?
Char kinda ambiguously explosively died at the end of Gundam, but then reappeared for a followup Gundam movie where he and Amuro are both maybe killed by some sort of Gundam light. Amuro maybe(?) seems to stay dead after that, but Char half comes back because executive cash cow resuscitation. I dunno, the series gets too weird to make sense of. I only went as far as the main first series.
Gosho will probably set up Amuro and Akai to fight again because they are designated rivals I guess.
1 hour ago, DCUniverseAficionado said:As for DC, there's actually a blend of Rye (Shuichi's codename) and Bourbon (Rei's/Tooru's codename) called "Forgiven" (http://drinks.seriouseats.com/2013/09/wild-turkey-forgiven-new-bourbon-rye-blend-review.html), so I don't think Rei/Tooru is always going to hate Shuichi like he does, right now (at the very least, he's eventually going to stop wanting to kill Shuichi).
Since when has Gosho shown awareness of recent western copyrighted names of random mixed liquors and then based his story on them?
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6 minutes ago, Black Demon said:Since blocking the camera seems to be an instinctual reaction, is it safe to conclude that Asaka's right-handed?
Also, isn't it odd that whoever wrote this article knew of the exact Kanji for Asaka's name? Since it's most likely just an alias, the name shouldn't appear on any record; not to mention Asaka was Amanda's bodyguard in the US, where people don't use Kanji.
My past handedness analysis suggests that miscellaneous hand actions like this are pretty indicative of handedness, but it's more of an 85% rather than a 100% thing.
Maybe Asaka signed into the hotel book? (Or Gosho thinks American hotels do that Japanese thing.)
6 minutes ago, Black Demon said:It's hard to tell, especially if disguises are to be considered.
That is true.
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20 hours ago, DCUniverseAficionado said:1) Asaka is Rum.
Shinichi/Conan read Koji's dying message correctly; Rum became Amanda Hughes' bodyguard in order to kill her; Koji walked in during the murder, heard "Rum" (either some time before or just before), and tried to intervene (or was seen before he could get the police); Koji is killed by APTX 4869; perhaps, Rum's eye is gouged by Koji with the scissors found gripped in his hand, hence why pictures were taken of the mirror (the struggle between Rum and Koji could've led to the police being called by someone else); after the pictures are taken of the mirror, Rum returns and takes it, and is seen by a witness, leaving, with the mirror in his hand.
2) Asaka is Rumi.
Shinichi/Conan read the first part of Koji's dying message incorrectly, mainly because he hasn't realized the second part; Rumi, perhaps Koji's girlfriend, was hired by Amanda Hughes as a bodyguard; Rumi was overpowered by Rum, but not killed, and Amanda was then killed; Koji walks in during the murder, hears "Rum" (either some time before or just before), and tries to intervene (or is seen before he can get the police); Koji is killed by APTX 4869; perhaps, Rum's eye is gouged by Koji with the scissors found gripped in his hand, hence why pictures were taken of the mirror (the struggle between Rum and Koji could've led to the police being called by someone else); after the pictures are taken of the mirror, Rumi (perhaps awakening from unconsciousness), grabs the mirror and flees, fearing she'll be suspected, arrested, and convicted, and is seen by a witness, leaving, with the mirror in her hand; Rumi goes into hiding and lays low for years (perhaps she's running from the BO as well as the authorities); Rumi sporadically uploads details of the case, hoping someone will solve it; Eventually, she learns of Kogoro Mouri's involvement, investigates, and discovers Conan Edogawa; Rumi applies to become a teacher at Teitan High, and is hired; Rumi, on her first day, tests Shinichi's/Conan's intelligence in order to see if he's the true Sleeping Kogoro, so she can then approach him about the case, and see if he can lead her to Rum, and get revenge for what he did to her.
3) Asaka is neither Rum nor Rumi, but someone else.
Shinichi/Conan read Koji's dying message incorrectly (in terms of Asaka not being Rum); either a BO agent (not Rum) became Amanda's bodyguard to make it easier for Rum to kill her, or someone like Mary was brought in as Amanda's bodyguard; either Koji walked in during the murder, heard "Rum" (either some time before or just before, likely from Asaka), and tried to intervene (or was seen before he could get the police), or Mary (or whoever was brought in as the bodyguard) was overpowered by Rum, but not killed, and Amanda was then killed; either Koji is killed by APTX 4869 administered to him by Rum, or Koji is killed by APTX 4869 administered to him by Rum or by Asaka; perhaps, Rum's eye is gouged by Koji with the scissors found gripped in his hand, hence why pictures were taken of the mirror (the struggle between Rum and Koji could've led to the police being called by someone else)—in this case, if Asaka is a BO agent, they'd be the one to administer APTX to Koji; either Rum flees the scene (especially if his eye is gouged), and after the pictures are taken of the mirror, Asaka and takes it, and is seen by a witness, leaving, with the mirror in his hand, or after the pictures are taken of the mirror, Mary (or whoever the bodyguard brought in is, perhaps awakening from unconsciousness), grabs the mirror and flees, and is seen by a witness, leaving, with the mirror in their hand (in either scenario, Rumi could still have been Koji's girlfriend, and still could be one uploading the case's details).
Good summary of these ideas and how they would work!
On 8/17/2016 at 9:32 PM, MeiTanteixX said:that's assuming he lost it at that time...
Where does Kuroda's accident fit in in the Rum arc? As a Rum suspect, he should be connected to Rum in some shape or form(like how FBI was to Vermouth, how Eisuke was to Kir or How Subaru and Sera was to Bourbon)...
I think Rum's accident might be linked with Kuroda's(which is how Kuroda comes into play in this arc)...
Too early to tell.
On 8/18/2016 at 1:28 AM, DCUniverseAficionado said:So you believe Asaka is Rum, not that Asaka is Mary or Rumi (in Rumi's case, she'd actually be Akasa)?
Yes, for now. I think Asaka is Kohji's and Amanda Hughes' killer per Conan's suspicions and because it's the simplest theory to cover the facts we have available now. I also think he stole the dying message from the crime scene as a last minute clean up, thus causing his gender to be mistaken. That sort of trick would be very in line with the methods used in the several past "conflicting witness testimony" cases (there are at least 3 of them), and explains the reason Gosho made the unusual move of waiting to append that detail to the end of the case. It's possible for something more complicated to come up (like the Wakasa = Akasa theory above), but I'm not going there until there is a reason to.
On 8/18/2016 at 5:54 AM, MeiTanteixX said:Yes, at least the interpretation of it "Asaca=Rum" seems too much like a red-herring that is supposed to stir up Conan's investigation(Akai might have something else in mind though)...As for the code "Asaca Rum" in general...that's why the "Carasuma" theory got resurrected to begin with...(I don't see why Kouji would attempt to write "Wakasa Rumi" without a "W" and "I" anyway)...
I think the presence of the Black Organization at the songwriter murder case as well as Vermouth specifically asking a suspect why the song was spelt with a "Ca" rather than a "Ka" show that the Black Organization sees Asaca Rum as the correct decoding (and their motivation for investigating). It is possible the Black Organization is incorrect and the message is truly something else. If Kohji was trying to write Wakasa Rumi, I would have left the M behind turned upsidedown as a W by the mirror.
There are also more elements of the dying message scene that Conan may not have considered. There is "Juke Hot(el)" and the half a heart that looks like a cursive c.
For now though, I don't see a reason why the message is wrong. We have a pretty convincing answer (the BO's opinion!) that covers all the known info from the Kohji case so far, with no known contradictions that can't be explained. Same goes with Asaka=Rum. (We know Rum screwed up in the Kohji case because Gin bitched about it. Asaka killing Kohji and failing to clean up his dying message before pictures appeared seems like an appropriately large botch.) Leaping to alternate solutions just because something seems too simple or obvious can be even more perilous than taking something suspicious at face value. Oftentimes with Gosho, the simplest thing that explains all the events is the right answer.
19 hours ago, MeiTanteixX said:I think Mary's latest behavior and knowledge makes sense with her being Asaka.
Asaka does not have enough boobage to be Mary. Asaka's hand blocking picture is low quality, but not so bad that you would miss a pair of grapefruits as displayed in the flashback.
19 hours ago, MeiTanteixX said:did those even exist? x)
(I would like to know what long term fans that followed through the Vermouth arc thought at those moments)
Copy from here: http://forums.dctp.ws/viewtopic.php?t=7259&start=105#p617343
I went through the Vermouth arc after it was written solo with no internet discussion or spoilers, but I got the right answer in the end because primarily because Vermouth went to school to be close to Conan and Ai, and Jodie went to the high school because she was following Araide. I missed the pictures of pictures clue and the not-aging. The NY case helped me make the major breakthroughs in figuring out Vermouth's identity and motives. That case explained the motive (loyalty shinichi and ran), and clarified her skills. I think there was a period where I thought Chris and Sharon were separate but it was Chris that appeared in NY as Sharon for reasons, but that changed sometime before the flashback to Jodie's past probably because only Sharon could be familiar enough with Yukiko -- I can't remember exactly why right now. The flashback to Jodie's past set in stone all my suspicions. I'm not sure why I never figured out the aging discrepancy, I probably overlooked it because I wanted to see if I was right on the other things and rushed. I lost my brainstorming and notes sheet doc in a comp failure years ago.
18 hours ago, MeiTanteixX said:19 hours ago, DCUniverseAficionado said:Like you doubt Sakurako will have any bearing on the plot, there were those who must've doubted that Tomoaki would have any bearing on the plot, back then.
It's not so much that I doubt Sakurako completely, just that beyond the little notice of Conan's behavior, she hasn't shown any signs of becoming a potential plot character
This is the main difference between Tomaki and Sakurako. In terms of current plot relevant chars, Sakurako has only appeared with Shuukichi, but nothing has happened to indicate we should be suspecting her of being related to anything. Tomoaki appeared with Jodie and Haibara and Shinichi in Desperate Revival, then Akai and Jodie and Haibara in the busjack. Busjack was when Haibara's senses went nuts and told every sensible reader that Vermi was Jodie, Akai, or Tomoaki. We don't have the equivalent of a "Vermouth on a bus. Three suspects. Which one?" moment right now. We have a dozen+ recent recurring chars, a vague description of Rum, and some unconnected backstories. Sometimes background fluff characters get introduced like Azusa Enomoto, Yoko Okino, Hideo Akagi, Ryusuke Higo, or pre-Shiratori Sumiko Kobayashi. Sakurako isn't a theory priority until a Sakurako-sized gap in the plot appears or she starts hanging out with more plot chars.
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22 hours ago, Shinan-Kudogawa said:I really don't think Gosho will go that far in doing homages to Gundam, but I thought that perhaps there might be more connections that are inspired by the Gundam series that we may have missed. Regarding Seyla, I first thought of the pronounce of the names as similar, Sera and Seyra in Japanese pronunciation.
Besides some case name puns and maybe some background products/titles in certain scenes (e.g. toys owned by otaku suspects like Chiba), I haven't seen anything else other than what I mentioned above obviously related to Gundam. That's why I said I think Gosho's interest in Gundam homages only goes as far as Akai and Bourbon. I haven't observed any other plot moments where I saw a definite connection to Gundam versus similarities that are likely to be coincidence. My current opinion is that researching Gundam won't help untangle future plots.
Sera Masumi is named after Sayla Mass which is why their names are similar.
Boss of The Black Organization?
in General
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Many years ago the German fandom started a project where they listed every character in the manga, even background ones, up until that interview. It didn't get people's names in guestbooks or on street signs / whatever unfortunately. I snagged a copy of the excel doc and started going through name by name to rule out characters for being dead, in jail, acting extremely stupid, etc. There are relatively few good suspects early on. Here are all the ones prior to chapter 115 or so that are still in my technically valid category (and not all have full names listed mind). If/when there is enough demand I can make the doc available for download. I never finished going through all the cases either. Seems like it would be a good group project.
Volume 1 Case 1 Aiko
Volume 3 Case 7 Kitaro Hatamoto
Volume 3 Case 7 Mariko Hatamoto
Volume 3 Case 7 Akie Hatamoto
Volume 3 Case 7 Kenji Suzuki
Volume 3 Case 8 Maki Okuda
Volume 3 Case 8 Hiroshi Wada
Volume 3 Case 8 Mr. Kishida
Volume 4 Case 9 Iijima
Volume 5 Case 12 Masaru Ota
Volume 5 Case 12 Hiroki Sumiya
Volume 5 Case 12 Ayako Suzuki
Volume 5 Case 13 Mieko Shibazaki
Volume 5 Case 13 Katsumi Yamada
Volume 5 Case 13 Go Sumi
Volume 6 Case 14 Masao
Volume 6 Case 15 Ineko Maru
Volume 7 Case 17 Yamada
Volume 7 Case 18 Kenta
Volume 7 Case 18 Masato Shimizu
Volume 7 Case 18 Reiko Kuroiwa
Volume 7 Case 18 Shuichi Murasawa
Volume 7 Case 19 Ramus
Volume 8 Case 20 Shiro Konno
Volume 8 Case 20 Genichiro Kaneshiro
Volume 8 Case 20 Shizue Hayashi
Volume 8 Case 21 Kaori
Volume 8 Case 21 Yamada
Volume 8 Case 21 Sato
Volume 8 Case 21 Kazumi Takenaka
Volume 8 Case 21 Atsushi Umemiya
Volume 9 Case 23 Yukio Ayashiro
Volume 9 Case 23 June Oomura