DCUniverseAficionado

True—the discrepancy between Shuichi's/Subaru's phones in File 843 and File 898 could be merely due to Gosho not caring about the continuity. So that's what they do, huh? Thanks for the info! So Rei/Tooru can do magic hacking, as well? All he did in File 814 was know Kogoro's password in advance. Wait... what does Scarlet Showdown, as in File 894–File 897 (and File 897 is considered the end of the Bourbon arc—File 898, where we see Shuichi's/Subaru's phone, is considered the start of the Rum arc), have to do with the question of the middle brother's and Shuichi's/Subaru's phone(s)?

Can you put this in the proper thread? Talk about File 936 should go in the thread for the case that file is part of... Yeah, I'm enthusiastic about making a thread for the cases for the first time, I admit.

THIS THREAD is used to discuss about SPOILERS. In other words, if you only read the English version and wish to wait for the full release instead of getting spoiled, this is NOT the right place for you! RULES OF THE SPOILER-ONLY DISCUSSION THREAD: 1. Any kind of spoiler involving the case (pictures, texts, information, full scans...) of any language that is released before the English version must be posted HERE. The English translations of the spoilers must also be posted here. 2. Any kind of discussion involving the spoilers must be posted HERE. 3. Despite being a spoiler-only thread, EVERY spoiler and discussion involving events that have not happened in the English releases STILL has to be put inside Spoiler boxes. When the file in question is fully released in English, this is not necessary anymore. 4. NO DIRECT LINK to any Japanese scans (RAWs) or English scans (Japanese spoiler pictures are allowed as long as the amount and quality of which are very far away from a full scan, like the ones we usually have). HOW TO USE A SPOILER BOX? Just simply type the following: Or more manually: Step 1: Click the "Special BBCode" icon at the upper-left side of the edit toolbar. Step 2: In BBCode, select "Spoiler". Step 3: Enter the text that you want to put inside Spoiler boxes, then click OK.

Two phones is fine, but three? Even for an FBI agent who's faked his death, that's a bit much.

It really seems as if Gosho's going to pull a twist on this—Shukichi would seem to be the obvious choice of who's contacting Masumi over the phone, but it really could be Shuichi/Subaru. So you're saying Shuichi/Subaru has 3 phones? Shukichi's phone is seen from an angle where we can see the bottom and part of the sides, while the other three only show the top parts—unless we see the top of Shukichi's phone, I'm not convinced Shukichi's phone can't be the second one.

Sorry, I meant completely convinced. He wouldn't want to let her know after Mystery Train?

Found this: EDIT: And this:

Agreed, completely. I'm honestly convinced, at this point, that Masumi is just telling everyone she's in contact with her second brother (Shukichi) when she's actually in contact with her first brother (Shuichi/Subaru). Why is it that you're not convinced? All Gosho has shown and told us about who Masumi has been in contact with and what he's like looks like his way of a twist setup. I feel the "hint" about MG and Shuichi/Subaru being happy at Shukichi winning the 7th shogi title (File 902/Episode 786) is different from the "hint" about Shukichi putting Yumi on hold and then putting her back on, and this period of Yumi waiting for him to put her back on is filled by Masumi's brief conversation with her middle brother before he hangs up (File 929).

Ah, that outfit, from Department Store Bomber Case/The Crisis Beckoned by the Red Omen (File 700–File 704/Episode 578–Episode 581)—considering the texture, it looks like Shuichi/Subaru is the one receiving the text, there. Shukichi's shogi clothes lack the pattern that Shuichi's/Subaru's clothes from File 700–File 704/Episode 578–Episode 581 have. If you brighten the scanlation of the other files where Shuichi/Subaru is wearing the black shirt, you should get the shirt in the original SS version of File 860. Actually, it looks like the brightness of the collar and the shirt were simply changed between the SS version and the Volume 81 version. EDIT: Just thought of something—do you have the original SS releases of the panels with Shukichi that you're showing?

But those are from two different angles. Put in pictures with more angles, and we'll see. Plus, why would Gosho even make the change? If Shuichi/Subaru is the one in contact with Masumi, the black shirt is fine. Both Shukichi and Shuichi/Subaru have a black shirt with appropriate sleeves. Does Shuichi/Subaru have attire with a sleeve like this?

Look at File 899–File 902 and compare the sleeves of Shukichi's shogi attire to the sleeves, here—they don't match. He does, though, wear a black shirt with sleeves like the ones seen in the image you're showing... but Shuichi/Subaru has a shirt like that, too, and he's worn it much more often (File 638–File 640, File 812–File 814, File 843). Shuichi's/Subaru's phone matches the phone seen in File 860, and so does Shukichi's phone (from the little we got of it in File 929). At this point, I think that Shukichi really is the brother of Shuichi/Subaru and Masumi and the son of MG (if she's their mother, which seems quite likely), but Shuichi/Subaru has been the one in contact with Masumi in Steamy Relations (File 856–File 858/Episode 740 and Episode 741), Bumper Brawn (File 859–File 861/Episode 744 and Episode 745), and A Killer in Ramen Ogura (File 928–File 930), and she's telling everyone who asks about the identity of who's she's talking to that its Shukichi. She wouldn't tell Shinichi/Conan who she's really talking to because she doesn't know that he's working with Shuichi/Subaru, since Shuichi/Subaru wouldn't tell her that.

Still, you'd think the anime staff knows that they're doing it wrong. Maybe it just doesn't matter to them—they can just ignore it, after all, like they did with Episode 5, Episode 13 and Episode 128. They could add a scene in in which Shuichi/Subaru is shown to have a second phone, if he turns out to be the one in contact with Masumi, if they so desired. It's just that they got the models of phones wrong, in those images—it wouldn't take much effort, you'd think, to simply duplicate the manga, in this respect.

I was wondering if a hint about him meant he'd appear in the coming File/case... still unconfirmed, but, it most likely means he'll be in at least a File—even better if it's the whole case. The thought of asking Rei/Tooru about Rum crossed his mind in File 906—but, knowing Gosho, he'll probably keep the talking about that to a minimum... that is, if Gosho will even allow them to talk about Rum and not just tease us with the very notion of them talking about Rum.

Even though nobody in the Organization, save Vermouth, knows what APTX 4869 does, you'd think that Taka'aki, if he's Rum, would've at least thought of drawing a connection, by now. Other than that, he could very well be Rum. If Heizo is Rum, then he married a very moral woman and had a son who could very well make things difficult for him, and that he might have to do away with. If Matsumoto is Rum, then his appearance 3 years from current events in DC in File 80 can't have happened, and Gosho will need to say he's changing things. Movies aren't canon, which allows for Matsumoto to still be Rum, from that angle, but still... why have Irish impersonate Rum if Rum could just inform the rest of the BO on what was happening? Then there's his proximity to Shinichi/Conan and his opportunities to observe him. Last Rei/Tooru Appearance: File 898 Last Rum-focused File: File 908 (Prosthetic Eye) Over a year. Yes, we are due.

Unless the manga is narrowing down suspects and beginning the reveal by the time the movie comes out, the movie won't be giving us any clues. Dimensional Sniper may have revealed to us that Shuichi = Subaru, but we had plenty of clues to figure that out, beforehand. Unless the clues to figure out Rum's identity have been there all along, the movie won't be cluing us in. Also, the characters introduced as part of the intro (plot-relevant characters who hadn't yet appeared in a movie) were likely due to the fact that the movie came out during DC's 20th year anniversary. Remember all those manga panels that flew by each of those characters? Who knows what the intro sequence of Movie 20 will be like? It is true that Taka'aki hasn't seen Shiho/Ai, but he's gotten the chance to observe Shinichi/Conan and his intelligence more than any other police officer, considering he's from Nagano. You'd think he would've put two and two together, at this point... and what about his friendship with Kansuke? Unless showing that was to make clear that if Kansuke finds out Taka'aki is Rum, he'll have a hard time bringing him down and turning him in, having them be such good friends serves no purpose, if Taka'aki is Rum.

Quite frankly, we're due this scene—it's been over a hundred files (nearly 3 and 1/2 years) since focus has been put on just Shuichi/Subaru and Shiho/Ai; of course, the same goes for her finding out more info that Shinichi/Conan has kept from her, and us finding out what was in Akemi's PS in her text to Shuichi after 7 and 1/2 years of wondering (though it's not hard to guess what the gist of it was).

True. Besides knowing that Kir is CIA and Rei/Tooru is Bourbon, she's been kept out of the loop on things by Shinichi/Conan. Does she know that Rei/Tooru is PSB/PSIA? You'd think Shinichi/Conan would tell her that. His motivation for this is probably because of what she did in File 433–File 434/Episode 345, and due to her feelings towards Shuichi/Dai for using her and her sister to get at the Organization. If she planned to secretly test the prototype antidote on him (File 646/Episode 521), then there's no reason she couldn't do something like this. Until the DBs make a comment about Shuichi's/Subaru's voice changer being exposed with Shiho/Ai present, though, we won't know for sure. Her suspicions of his identity have been pretty much put aside by Gosho since File 825—Shuichi/Subaru has only appeared three times, since then (File 843/Episode 723, File 894–File 898/Episode 781–Episode 783 and File 902/Episode 786), and he and Shiho/Ai were not even in each other's presence in those three appearances of his.

But if it's true, then any character introduced after File 906–File 908—from 13 months ago, up to now and beyond, until Rum's identity is revealed—is out of the running. That's significant to me—it means that Rum is already in play... no waiting for Rum to appear, if Rum's already there. The skulls underneath the cups, then? Pirates –> Rum Yeah, those with scars (Matsumoto, Kansuke, Kuroda) or have their eyes closed most of the time (Heizo) are too obvious. Rum could just be using body doubles with various traits but they all have that one common trait to throw everyone off. In terms of the fake/prosthetic eye, there are too few, and if we throw that out the window, there are more suspects. Anyone who's seen Shiho/Ai is out of the running—as she said in File 925, Rum would be on her had she been seen. Let me cite the Vermouth arc, as well—Vermouth didn't make her move until she actually saw Shiho/Ai in File 422. While those who've seen Shinichi/Conan and got the chance to observe his intelligence and haven't seen Shiho/Ai could still be it, I have to wonder about Rum not yet putting two and two together about Shinichi/Conan... still, nobody but Vermouth and Shiho/Ai know what APTX 4869 can do, so people who've only seen Shinichi/Conan are still in the running, even if they've gotten to see him in action and observe how smart he is.

It would've said so if it was a two week break—we can likely expect the next spoilers on the 16th or the 17th. Typically, Heiji cases can go like this: 1) 3-6 File case only, or 2) 3-4 File case followed by a 4–7 File case. The only exception to this rule was Murderer, Shinichi Kudo (File 646–File 651/Episode 521 and Episode 522) and Highway Murder Case (File 652–File 654/Episode 522 and Episode 523), and that was a story involving the temporary antidote and the first meeting between Shinichi and Ran since Desperate Revival (File 257–File 260). There's the potential of a 3 File Heiji case coming out next, but it's low—I don't see the point of Gosho doing it unless he's got something to add to the sequence of events that began in File 931. Unless it's just an unheard voice or text message. Most likely, though, Gosho will have a new Rum-plot story out by April—or have it written and ready to release by April—hence Rum's appearance in the movie. We haven't really got Rum info since File 908—unless you count Shinichi/Conan suspecting Kansuke and Kuroda of being Rum—we're certainly due.

Hmm... in that case... Since I can't think of who Rum could be, this would definitely work, as a possible explanation for some things. Still, Kuroda's too obvious, and Kansuke can't be it, either. Maybe Heizo could be our man, but you'd think he'd try not to have Heiji become someone he might have to get rid of, and again, his wife's staunch morality—it's kinda like having Kogoro be Anokata... all those connections and development become moot.

I do? Thanks! It's not Kuroda (obvious red herring + confirmed by Gosho); it's not Kansuke (red herring + confirmed by Gosho on multiple occasions); it's not Matsumoto (if he was, by now, Shinichi/Conan would be done—I think he even got a chance to see Shiho/Ai (File 804–File 808/Episode 681–Episode 683) + we see him three years after File 78–File 80/Episode 18—unless he escapes or Shinichi/Conan lets him go for some reason, or Gosho has DC take over 4 years (unlikely, given that Ran states in File 882 that it hasn't even been a year since just before File 1), he can't be it); and it's not Heizo, Heiji's father (he should've figured out what Heiji was up to with Shinichi/Conan and had chances to meet Shinichi/Conan and observe his intelligence—punching his son may be extreme, but it was done to catch criminals (it's not like he needed to do that—why not just let such a difficult case go? He seems pretty secure in his position), and then there's the matter of his wife, Shizuka... what would her position be, if her husband was Rum, especially with her speech to the culprit of her intro case (File 276–File 278)?). Taka'aki (Koumei) seems a good choice, but his friendship with Kansuke would be pointless, and then there's the fact he's noticed how intelligent Shinichi/Conan is probably more than any other police officer, given Shinichi's/Conan's camaraderie with the Nagano detectives. In File 898, Agasa plays a trick on the DBs by putting vinegar in four cups and pretending one has lemon juice—this "cheating" is the subject right before Rum is revealed. Perhaps there is no artificial eye—maybe all the people thought to be him, described by various Organization members, were just body doubles who had a prosthetic eye... this was done to further throw off people in the matter of Rum's identity. Beyond the fact that Rum has appeared, I just can't think of who it could be, after I've eliminated all those suspects... I'll ponder it some more, and then get back to you.

Ah, but Gosho said Rum had already appeared by September 2014. You must mean something else. True, but Subaru pressing that part of his neck that was always covered while he spoke, a beeping sound being made, due to it, and his voice suddenly being Shuichi's is about as close to official confirmation you can get without reading File 894–File 898, and Dimensional Sniper came out around the time the first images and spoiler info about File 894 were coming out. We really haven't had something about Rum since Kuroda last appeared (File 920) and was last mentioned (File 925)—but that's if you count focus on a red herring character (Even Gosho, through Shiho/Ai, has said he's too obvious and hasn't done what Rum would do (File 925)). Technically, the case just covered in the anime (File 906–File 908/Episode 792 and Episode 793) gets everyone who just watches anime on par with what the manga readers know of Rum—we'll definitely reach Kuroda's introduction before Movie 20 comes out, and maybe even reach his last actual appearance before then (File 920). Remember, the anime was on Steamy Relations (File 856–File 858/Episode 740 and Episode 741) when Scarlet Showdown started being released—Shuichi/Subaru didn't appear between File 843/Episode 723 and File 894/Episode 781. No significant info about Rum has been revealed since File 908/Episode 793, so as long as Gosho starts to dive into it in the manga (or has made plans to) by then, he has a pretext to work him into the film. Most likely, the movie will come out on Saturday, April 16th—since 2008, every DC movie has come out on the Saturday of the third week of April—Rum case or not, we'll be getting spoilers when it's hitting theaters in Japan. If it is a Rum case that we start getting spoiler images of, that Friday, we may get them even sooner, and also sooner—actual pictures taken of the relevant info by people in theaters. I know, right? Normally, it's 10-13 cases behind. It may climb back up to 8 or even 9 with all October being AO episodes, but this is the closest the anime and manga have been together in... ever?... ah, those elusive dates of release for DC files released before 2004... By then, we'll probably have already gotten the Zombie case, and will, then, be getting whatever case is due next in the anime... wow, just thinking about that... Last year, at this time (October 3rd, 2014), Midnight Crow (MK File 31–MK File 33) was in the process of coming out, and the most recent case in the manga was Scriptwriter Murder Case/Three First Discoverers, the most recent manga cat adapted to anime... I guess time can fly, even with DC. You know it—no vital info about the BO was revealed in Countdown to Heaven or The Raven Chaser. Any info about the boss' number two in Movie 20 would be groundbreaking. Yeah, it's quite a long shot... but why not hope? Did anyone think Subaru's identity was going to be revealed when Movie 18 was in the works? Just watch the trailer for The Raven Chaser... now that's false advertising—and Movie 18's trailer made it sound like Shuichi was being targeted by the sniper... you know, the supposedly dead Shuichi... and the end of it had the sniper verbally taunt Shinichi/Conan with something like, "The game's over, detective...", which he never said, in the movie. He just kept calling Shinichi/Conan a brat. Have your BS detector on when the trailer for Movie 20 comes out... I'm eager for the poster, as well. Movie 13's had skull-Gin looking at a bleeding Shinichi/Conan with the outline of Shinichi, who was bleeding just the same... wonder what Gosho has in mind... he did make a reference to working on it, in an AC hint.

But no other movie before it spoiled the manga before the manga files that revealed the truth came out. By watching Dimensional Sniper, you could be spoiled on one of the Bourbon arc's longest questions (it went unanswered even longer than the "Who is Bourbon?" question) if you didn't watch Episode 509–Episode 704. I'd say a lot of people on this site and DCTP put the answer to the question together, but I can't comment on other DC fan sites.