[SPOILER DISCUSSION] File 1,047–File 1,050: Recollections of Vauxhall Bridge

[[SPOILER DISCUSSION] File 1,047–File 1,050: Recollections of Vauxhall Bridge]

 

In regards to the latest tanslations of 1047+ 1048 + 1049, with Tsutomo's appearance, as a disguise to Vermouth. The fact that Vermouth seems to diguise as a perfect Tsutomo, means that she met with him, saw him, heard his voice, in order to be able to disguise as him. Moreover, Mary was confronted when she was in London, while 17 years ago she did travel to Japan to hide per Tsutomo's instructions ( The Beach case with Shinichi). She returned to England, and it is only in England that the BO/Vermouth did succeed in confronting Mary, the place that Tsutomo considered dangerous, and only Japan was safe.

 

 

Leading to three possibiliteis; 1) Tsutomo is actually dead, and most likely the killer is Vermouth ( in order to be able to know him and disguise as him.) . 2) Tsutomo is alive, and he is kept captive within BO, hence, they were able to extract the info on his family albeit partially. Knew about his children, and wife. 3) He is alive, and is in hiding somewhere. (Although, Vermouth wouldn't risk disguising as him, knowing that he is a MI6 and may still be alive somewhere. 

* Edit: with the new updated translations of file 1049; Vermouth says: Tsutomo who is supposed to be dead. Hinting that he is alive. Otherwise, it is a declaration that he is suppsoed to be dead, meaning he is dead, however she attempted to revive him in her disguise to kill Mary.

 

We know that the Akai and Miyano families are connected through Mary + Elena. Akemi and Shiho, are cousins to Shuu, Shukichi and Masumi. Shuu probably liked Akemi very much, and considers its not the time for Shiho to meet him. Also, she perhaps saw him before, and knew of the agent Rye in the BO.

 

Shiho is 17/18 years old. Her parents died when she was about 1-3 years old. Meaning 14-16 years ago, 3-1 years after Kouji's incident. Meaning that Tsutomo went on to investigate the crime, while his relatives the Miyanos were working inside the BO.

 

If the BO, knew about Tsutomo's wife, chances are they knew about her sister being Elena. Anything that may compromise Tsutomo, would throw off the Miyanos, who would've known about his dissappearance. 
*Edit: The updated translations of 1049 proves this correct.
 

Kohji, is Shuukichi's 'half brother', before the crime. The Akais knew the Hanedas before the crime, the Miyanos would know about Kohji's relations with Amanda. Being the 'half brother' to Shuukichi, I'd guess that most likely the Hanedas had good relations with the Akais, since Tsutomo is hired by them. The Miyanos, if they are in the know, would alert Kohji/Tsutomo about the BO. 

 

Plus, as far as we know, Mary's name is not on the APTX list. While chapter 1048, says the flashback is months ago, we don't know how far has it been for Shiho's betrayal. She might've been a BO at the time, and would've known about her aunt Mary targeted, or was it held as a secret against her, although the BO didn't hide Akemi's death from Shiho. Leading to the guess that, she already left  the BO at the time. 

*Update: According to Vermouth in 1049, it's been 3 years since her first diguise as Tsutomo, proving this as incorrect.
 

Within the 3 (Wakasa, Kuroda and Wakita), is Rum. According to Gosho. The three has a certain eye problem. Rum's artificial eye is ambiguous. According to Vermouth, in her disguise as Tsutomo, she's been hit on the head. She wouldn't risk lying about the area of an injury to Mary, who would've saw through her lie. Giving the result that Tsutomo indeed was hit on the head. 

 

Vermouth, did say she came to Mary to poison her, with BO agents. Probably an order. Yet, figured out that the meeting place was at Vauxhall Bridge. There's almost no way that the BO/Vermouth would know about Tsutomo' and Mary's meeting place, from a dead Tsutomo from long ago, or a far away Tsutomo, alluding to the fact that Tsutomo is within the BO. 

 

While Vermouth could've planted a tracking devie on Mary, I doubt Mary wouldn't notice. Or rather, since their meeting was from days ago, she would most definitely changed clothes and the tracking device is a loose end for the BO. Heavily hinting that the BO knew of the usual meeting place, from an alive Tsutomo. Who is more than likely, important for te BO alive than dead. On that note, Tsutomo is either a prisoner in BO, an altered agent for the BO (through perhaps hypnosis, or something similar). Or is a deaged person, living somewhere.

 

 

*** Update: Vermouth's attempt to inflitrate the MI6, heavily alludes to the fact that Tsutomo is in fact dead. Since she was affraid to be exposed by Masumi, after killinig Mary, proves that at least to her, Tsutomo is in fact dead. And his absent body, may in fact be an attempt by BO/Vermouth, to allow Vermouth to disguise as him and inflitrate the MI6.
   

 

[Suspicious characters! Discussion about Hyoue Kuroda, Wakasa Rumi, and others.]

14 hours ago, DCUniverseAficionado said:

 

So you're claiming Muga and one of those three (Hyōe, Rumi or Kanenori) are actually the same person? 

 

 

  Hide contents

Ah, that's right... there was a question also asked in SDB Black Plus about if codenames can be inherited... okay, by those terms, yes—he didn't specify whether the Rum he was referring to was currently Rum or formerly Rum, so I guess that's how he could be shifty, there.

 

So Kanenori's just the bitter former second in command, and Muga is the man who passed him up?

 

Then why was Muga at Juke Hotel 17 years ago instead of Kanenori? Had he already been forced to step aside for Muga, by then? In other words, has Kanenori had the codename "Highball" since 17 years ago, or even before that?

 

The possibility exists, the fact is, according to Gosho. Rum is within the three (Kuroda, Kanenori & Rumi), so what remains to conclude, is whether the Rum he is speaking of is a 'face' of a three ways Rum, or like you & MeiTanteixX discuss, that Rum is a former Rum, and a new Rum is in current position.

[Suspicious characters! Discussion about Hyoue Kuroda, Wakasa Rumi, and others.]

5 hours ago, DCUniverseAficionado said:

 

Honestly, the twist that the butler of a romance subplot character is Rum actually looks pretty valid to me. 

 

The only issue is that, in Super Digest Book Black Plus, Gosho said that Rum was either Hyōe, Rumi or Kanenori—and only one of those three—his answer to that specific question didn't leave room for him to give an evasive answer and leave open the possibility of a fourth suspect. If it turns out there is a fourth suspect, and that suspect is Rum, then Gosho didn't just mislead, evade, or misdirect with this answer—he straight-up lied. And I don't recall Gosho straight-up lying when it comes to questions regarding the unrevealed big mysteries of the series. I don't recall him ever declaring, be it in Let's Talk Days or SDBs or interviews—before the reveals—that Vermouth wasn't disguised as Dr. Ariade, or that Hidemi Hondō and Rena Mizunashi weren't the same person, or that Scar Akai was Bourbon, or that Bourbon was Tōru Amuro. So I don't think he'd lie about Rum only being either Hyōe, Rumi or Kanenori.

 

In spite of this, I can't deny the possibility that Kanenori is actually Tsutomu Akai—if there was evidence proving he couldn't be Papa Akai, though, then I'd easily name him as my top suspect, even above Muga.

 

For me, the possibility that Kanenori = Papa Akai and Gosho's answer to that SDB Black+ question are my biggest points of contention—if it turns out that there are only 3 Rum suspects, and Kanenori turns out to be Tsutomu, then Rum must be Hyōe or Rumi (I don't honestly think that Rum is Tsutomu—Gosho subverting Shūichi's Gundam-inspired backstory and make his dad the second biggest of the bads, instead of really dead and/or a heroic figure, is quite a longshot).

 

If it ends up that only Hyōe or Rumi can be Rum, then one of them has been playing the long game and biding time, in spite of knowing info that could be devastating to Team Conan if they simply acted on it—Rum waiting to spring a trap on Team Conan and the NOCs despite knowing such important info to his goal seems to go against his impatience.

 

From here, we have to consider the Vermouth = Rumi possibility. If that's true, and Tsutomu is Kanenori (and not Rum), then Hyōe must be Rum (assuming there is no fourth suspect, of course). I want to say that Hyōe's knowledge precludes him from the suspect list completely, but I just don't know if he's biding his time or not.

 

So, at this time, my ranking of the suspects, in terms of how likely it is that they'll turn out to be Rum, goes like this:

Most likely: Kanenori and/or Muga

Second-most likely: Rumi

Least likely: Hyōe

 

I totally forgot  about the SDB, that according to Gosho Rum is one of the three. I know I am suiting theories, however, the theory that one of the three is another 'third' face of Rum is plausible, like Amuro and Kir, Rum plays the role of three people, his usual Rum, the Muga (though we are stretching the idea), and another third face.  If Rum, inside the BO, is a 'face', Rum being a butler Muga is another 'face', and a third possibilty is another 'Face', it could match the three theories of 3 personnas. If the butler is the feminine trait, and the Rum' is the old trait, the strong trait is the one left, which could be attributed to any of the three suspects, Hyouei, Rumi and Wakita. Going along with the answer Gosho made about one of the three is Rum. while also Muga and another personna are Rum all together...

[Suspicious characters! Discussion about Hyoue Kuroda, Wakasa Rumi, and others.]

Hey all, my latest theory regarding the whole Rum arc. Is that most likely Hyoue & Rumi are not Rum, I cannot say I have conclusive evidence, however the mere fact that they met during the camping incident, and Rumi's confrontation with the culprit, made me feel uneasy about how Kuroda reacted. If one was Rum, the other knew, if the other person did not know, it is most likely that Rum (or them) was not in the Haneda's scene, because their level of intelligence  (that may surpass Conan's) would lead them to figure the identity of Rum at the crime scene. Rumi (If she is Rum), would know Kuroda's purpose is to spy on her, and therefore would take actions to escape any chance that would lead to her identity. Kuroda (if he is Rum) would not confront Rumi, who is related to Haneda's mystery, without jeopradizing her suspisiousness towards him. If Kurodoa is Rum he would rather avoid Rumi, who might deduce who he is. If both did not know the other, I doubt Rumi would show off her skills in front of Kuroda (to her he might be Rum). Kuroda would not confront Rumi (who to him might be Rum), on the ground that he is watching over, and keeping her in a school where young lives at stake. On this basis, Rum is neither for most chances, unless proven otherwise. 

 

Kanenori, is a great candidate. But for a second in hand to command a large syndicate as big as BO, and the desire to remain unknown, would suggest he would rather attract less attention to himself, even if he tries to hide in plain sight. And his wholesome intention to become a disciple of a famous detective (Kogoro), would inspire others to look into him, such as Conan, and his quirky look, would raise questions, specially if Rum, who most likely knows about the descriptions people say about him, would mind fitting the image or a characteristic in a way or another in public. Rum would most likely, appear in the three different ways he is described, only inside the BO, while in public he would/should change his appearance to avoid any traces of him. If he have a damaged eye, he'd rather hide it or damage both eyes, if he seems feminine, he'd rather appear ambiguous looking, the same goes for a strong man.

 

Rum, most likely, has not appeared in whole appearance to the people who described him. The BO agents, described his characteristics, based on his approach, which would raise the question of the eye problem. If all agreed, that Rum have an eye that is prosthetic or damaged, it must mean that they saw him. Yet, it might be a way of Rum to throw off descriptions of him by giving different traits, with one similar characteristic, so when he is investigated, it would mislead the investigators in something that did not exist. Again, the descriptions, have transferred to Haibara who relayed them to Conan, (Who btw, didn't even bother telling Conan Anokata's phone number, even though she was not surprised to know he figured it out), in accordance with her intentions to mislead Conan  away from the BO so he would not be a matter of concern. Rum's awareness, like Gin about Sherry's escape from the BO, and that she must have had help, before her assumed death, would mean she told someone info on the BO, and Rum's different descriptions would've made their way into a stranger.

 

Iori Muga, to me personally, is most suspicious. Like said above by MeiTanteixX, his concern over time, would relate logicaly to Rum. He has no worries about people finding out his time calculations, and he should not. Since only the people he told that time is precious, should be matter of concern to him, like Amuro, however he considers Amuro a top ranking BO agent. And following the theory of MeiTanteixX, about G & UMA, which I find to be very possible. I would not be surprised if Muga turns out to be Rum,.

 

Another thing to consider, that Kuroda is not Rum, is the fact that he is Rei's superior. While he may still be a suspect, he would know about the agents awaiting at Kudo's residence during the Scarlet Arc. Thus, he would question the whole Akai's conversation with Rei over the phone, and the PSB that chased him, would lead to the BO's figuring out his whole fake death incident, if he is Rum.

 

Kanenori, if Rum, would be a compromise of concealment, to be known to Kogoro, Amuro and others, as a disciple to Kogoro, with the looks he has, and the possible chance some would know of his descriptions following Haibara's escape from BO, even before her assumed death.

 

Rumi, while as mysterious as she is, would not throw her mysterious character to be a matter of study and observation to others, if she is Rum, not to Kuroda who is in police, nor to Conan, whose skills of deduction, she know of. I cannot imagine a scenario where the 2nd in command, would not mind be around someone who can investigate him, unless he wants to.

 

Rum, is in rush. As evident by his message to Amuro "Time is Money", mostly the general concept is that Rum's current objective is to find out any spies within the BO,  while staying hidden. He/She, is currently active, while maintaining the order of BO. means he/she must balance between the two. As to why he is in hurry, it may be due to; 1. following a lead to find something out before it becomes apparent or escape. 2. To rush others to fall victims of time and therefore revealing their true allegiance, 3. to actually win something over in the least time possible.

 

Since time is of the essence to Rum, I've been wondering if it has anything to do with Anokata himself. Since Anokata(Karasuma), is related to the whole time concept, raising the dead, over half a century of existence. I wonder if something is up that may actually be the reason why Rum is in a rush. Which would lead back to the Muga's obssession with time and seconds, and his attempt to calculate time to the second for fullest time employment. ..

[Detective Conan & Beyond]

Hey everyone.. 

I've been thinking lately about the roundabouts of the ending of DC, per Gosho it is going to be a happy ending. However, for a series spanning more than a decade with a solid fanbase. I think the majority, as much as they would like to see DC end, they also would rather see a continuation of the DC series. For example, the Naruto series brings another Shippuden continuation, plus the Borutu series. Hence I thought perhaps a continuation to DC might, or rather, preferably should happen. However, what might come next?. The whole point of DC is to illustrate a spiritual successor to Sherlock Holmes in a Japanese setting, albeit adding more content to the core. But what if the story is elaborated upon, the black organization/Karasuma Group are only the enemies of Shinichi and his allies. While there might be other contending criminal organizations around the world, that end up as enemies to other related characters, and the story is even way bigger than it already is. Despite the 20+ years about a story set within a year, the continuation returns as a regular based story. Henceforth I imagined and theorized aftermath to the main DC story that I'd like to share with fellow fans, so enjoy reading a possible future theory.

 

After Shinichi returns to his normal body and eliminates the BO once and for all, he grows into a superb detective recognized by the world. The story begins with Kudo Tairoku (a suggested name based on the first localized name for Sherlock in Japan), the male child of Shinichi and Ran. After Shinichi and Ran are married, Shinichi is approached by acquaintances of the FBI to help them solve cases internationally, Ran after opening a Karate dojo, drags along with Shinichi to keep him company. However, due to the nature of his work, they decide to leave their son Tairoku with his best friend and now the owner of the biggest and most successful detective agency in Japan, the Hattori detective agency, run by the owner himself Heiji Hattori who is an older and wiser world-famous detective (think alongside his preview of himself in 'the stranger in 9 years' ova and a close resemblant to Morihiku Dan of the Detective School Q series). Who is also married to Kazuha, and with their female child Haruna Heiji, welcomes Tairoku in their home. Tairoku, then learns more about his father as a detective and whose fame reached legendary status and Heiji's great wits through the interns of Heiji Detective Agency. However, after a certain incident, Tairoku, displaying intuitive well-honed detective skills, compared to his now-retired grandfather Yuusaku, concludes that the culprits are a small group of Heiji's students, who want to raise their status by solving cases they are responsible for. Tairoku, along with his new best friend Haruna (I suggest Tairoku, who looks like a mix of Yuusaku and Shinichi albeit with Shinichi's mother's hair color. And Haruna, is dark in skin color like her father but resemblant to her mother.) try to uncover the mystery behind the group, so they (middle school students) stumble upon a good friend of their parents, a young professor's assistant and a previous small-time detective Mitsuhiko. (By this time, the Detective Boys have disbanded due to their business with their careers. Mitsuhiko is now an assistant researcher at Tokyo's University, Ayumi is a homeroom teacher, both are married. And Genta is working fulltime at his family's restaurant with frequent puzzle solving skills though not honed enough and has acquired Agasa's sense for puzzle giving to the local children.) Mitsuhiko's lust for detective work is now reactivated, and he contacts both Ayumi and Genta to take a break from work and help the young Tairoku and Haruna in their case. Long story short, Haruna is awed by the Detective Boys' skills, who in turn are more amazed by Tairoku's skills and compare him to Conan's past life. When things get ugly, and the group finally corners them through malicious means, the DBoys are locked up, and Tairoku (through Karate skills he was taught by his mother Ran), tries to save Haruna. Except he is outnumbered, just then someone comes to his aid. The older Heiji was suspicious of this small group of his students, and therefore sent a friend of his to investigates them, who turns out to be Masumi Sera (now a police detective, like how Sato was, who btw is now a police inspector instead of Megure, who becomes the superintended, and Takagi has left the force to marry Sato and joins Hattori in overlooking his Tokyo's subteam of detectives.), the police detective Sera rescues Tairoku and Haruna, calls for backup and arrest the group. Tairoku is then approached by Heiji who scolds him a bit, but seeing how he used to be the same curious detective, he appoints Tairoku instead of the previous team. Tairoku, Haruna and now a young boy named Hanaba Atsushi, go on a series of detective cases over Japan. 

 

I also envision a continuation where Tairoku grows and comes to face new enemies such as, Kaito Kid the Third, A professor serial killer with a fanbase whom he controls to commit crimes, a new company trying to overtake the shoes of the now destroyed BO's operations. And possibly many subplots like DC; the series would now be called Detective Conan: Future Generations. Though I'm not sure how Conan would be now relevant since the identity of the boy once known as Edogawa Conan is now uncovered as Kudo Shinichi, perhaps in respects to his previous life as Conan, Shinichi names his son Conan instead of Tairoku, or better yet, the series focuses on the smarter younger brother of Tairoku's, Conan, who is the smarter brother of the stronger Tairoku.

 

Although it can be enlarged through fan fiction, I would love to see Gosho's disciples take over the story and continue on it for the sake of the fans and the story itself. Yet I'm pretty positive Gosho would not want to continue with it, as he is more than ready to let it go. Anyways, if DC really ends with the destruction of BO and Shinichi is back to normal. Would you like to read/watch a sequel like mentioned above, or even take part in it? Let me know  .

[The Memories Of First Love]

Hi there, welcome to the forums. It is merely an indication that the fax actually works, there are many more characters that appeared once or twice and were altered in the anime. The usage of the professor is to illustrate the hint that the criminal used the fax to create his alibi, do you have anything else in mind?

[[SPOILER DISCUSSION] File 1,006–1,008: Maria Higashio’s Treasure Hunt and the Kudo Family Stalker]

On 12/19/2017 at 7:18 AM, MeiTanteixX said:

They don't exist. The story about the two visitors and the auction is fabricated.

We can't say for sure, as far as the series goes. It can be a true story that deemed fabrication in order to distract the truth. Nonetheless it has been mentioned and there is a mystery about it so we can't make certainties for now  

[[SPOILER DISCUSSION] File 1,006–1,008: Maria Higashio’s Treasure Hunt and the Kudo Family Stalker]

Spoiler

Hey everyone, how are you all? wow to think the theory I started turns out to be the closest to real, we are getting near the end. I believe that either Karasuma Renya is assuming a younger version of himself like Vermouth did, and named himself Daikouko Rentaru the name we saw inside the book in the Mermaid case. And the two persons we saw in the Renya's mansion in the auction one of them is either Renya himself, or all together it is his next in line who is taking part of being the boss. Though the former case is more likely.

 

[[SPOILER DISCUSSION] File 997–999: The Lost Phone Strap]

On 7/9/2017 at 10:22 AM, DCUniverseAficionado said:

 

  Hide contents

Muga Iori (File 983)

 

Shadowman Lurker (File 997)

 

Muga's jaw is different from the shadowman lurker's. And the shadowman we usually get generally has a more pointed jaw... but here? It's square. I'd be more open to the idea if this shadowman's jaw was more pointed—the fact that Gosho made this shadowman's jaw square means that whoever this is, their jaw is also square.

 

Spoiler

It seems more like Tsutomo Akai, seeing how the hat is identical in shape and the apparel is somewhat similar. However his chin and jaw might be different due to old age.

 

[Discussion Thread about Rum]

23 minutes ago, gg1998 said:

 

1. There's no order, the glass was cut in Kohji's bathroom. End of the story, period.
2. Still it's a mere speculation, if you're giving a theory then those stuff can't be used. If you're speculating, then it's fine.
3. Officially means the Officials of FBI and CIA. You're again assuming Amanda knew about Rum in the first place but we have no evidence to back it up, even if she knew about it and she passed on the info, then during the time of briefing kai and Kir prior to their infiltration, their respective agencies would have given them a small tip about Rum, because that's a vital information. But the discovery of the person named Rum working in Bo, took Akai and Kir by surprise. If they had prior knowledge about Rum then this reaction wouldn't have come into play.
4. It's a guess so nothing can be said, but quite unlikely.
5. I don't understand your point.
6. He was suffering yet had enough stamina to get out of that room, then why he didn't call for help?Mind it ,according to your theory he was attacked, he wrote the dying message, took the mirror also took the scissors, staggered out of the room, went to his room, broke a bunch of stuff to shield the dying message and then died. If he had stamina of doing all these things with a bashed up face and other debilitating injuries, why didn't he call for help?

@MeiTanteixX WAKASA RUMI, Chikara Katsumata are also viable options along with CARASUMA.

You might be right, again this is my speculation. I can give many possible theory to many things you point out, but again nothing can be said is true or false unless Gosho confirms or denies them.

[Discussion Thread about Rum]

42 minutes ago, gg1998 said:

1) That's the pivotal point of the case. It indicates where the glass was cut in the first place.

2) Where is the basis of such assumption? You can't assume random things for the benefit of your version.

3) The question is why would he even know the name in the first place? Why he would even consider that the name is known to FBI and CIA? As far as we know, neither the CIA nor the FBI officially knows the existence of Rum. If your assumption was valid then Akai and/or Kir would have known about the Rum during their time as Fbi(Cia) agents.

4) If Kohji's fingerprints were cleared by Rum, then it means after Kohji dragged himself out of Amanda's room, Rum came in after that, so absence of Kohji's body would have put him on alert and if he was calm enough to rub-off the prints then why didn't he try to find Kohji and ensured his death.

5) Why Kohji would be visiting Amanda in the first place? The visit was already done as Amanda already had gone to Kohji's room and came back to her own room. There is no further purpose for them to visit each other again. 

6) Last but not the least, if Kohji had the strength to get back to his room, write the dying message, smash random things to hide the dying message, but didn't call the hotel lobby for help? I thought Shogi players are smarter than that.

7) What you're assuming is things which will help your version. You're not building up your theory based on established facts.

 

1. It is, the order was at fault perhaps.

2. The basis, is that it was developed in a 17-20 years of process. It is a mere speculation that a drug was time consuming but became instant years later, hence it truly may be wrong but nonetheless it is an assumption and you don't have to believe it.

3. You said 'officially', hence some friends of Amanda knows of the existence of Rum and she told him about that fact. Again this is a mere guess.

4. Because he knew Rum is about to die either ways, weak I know but again only a guess. No concrete evidence based on.

5. It would indicate that he knew that Asaca worked on her/his own, and he went to the next person he knew.

6. Because he needed a reliable evidence to leave behind, and not another would be corpse, that is if he did not suspect the lobby workers.

7. True, again this is a mere theory with no established facts. So it can be criticized, and blamed. However it is an idea whether it is true or not.

[Discussion Thread about Rum]

21 minutes ago, MeiTanteixX said:

nope, it wasn't. Only Kohji's room had the tap open.

I may have remembered incorrectly, however the alternative would be that Kohji was beaten in his room but knocked out Asaca and then left the evidence and ran to Amanda's room (not sure why but could've wanted to hold her hostage or something) and then Asaca went after him ran off and Rum went after him and killed him. It is not like I'm enforcing my theory or anything, don't forget it may be sensible but from the start it is a weak one and I'm trying to find a closure to it. It may be all wrong, and might be somewhat right or an alternative to the one truth. It is merely an assumption in a sensible way.

[Discussion Thread about Rum]

4 hours ago, gg1998 said:

You're the one making possible flawed/contradictory assumptions in the first place.

1. Why Taps in Kohji's bathroom was opened while they weren't opened in Amanda's bathroom? The answer to this question is that Kohji created his dying message in his bathroom not in Amanda's. That means he was attacked and killed in his room not in Amanda's. 
2. You're assuming that the prototype took longer time to kill. Where is it verified? Don't invent facts to suit your theory.
3. For argument's sake let's assume that Amanda told him about Rum, but then according to You logic Asaca was Kohji's killer. Then why did Kohji need to cut the extra "U" in the dying message? If Asaca and Rum were related implicating anyone would be fine as the other can easily be traced, now Kohji used his last strength to implicate a person whose Code name(not even real name) is only known to a select few. How would you like to explain it?
4. Kohji wasn't wearing gloves, so why his fingerprint wasn't found in the Amanda's room?
5. Why on the other hand Amanda's fingerprint were found in Kohji's room?

 

1. Your dwelling on the taps in the bathroom in Kohji's room, don't forget the taps in Amanda's were open as well. 

2. I'm not inventing facts, I'm merely assuming the prototype had longer time to take effects. I might be wrong, and you might be wrong, it is only up to Gosho to answer it. So don't point fingers where everything we say is also possible

3. The fact that he mentioned the existence of such name, he knew it would reach the CIA or FBI.

4. I haven't read according to you, whether Kohji's fingerprints were left or not. Assuming it is as you say, either they were cleaned by Rum. Or he simply didn't touch anything that left his fingerprints (the doorknob was touched by every visitor so his would be missed with, and the taps again may have been erased due to water)

5. Because she visited him on several occasions.

While Holmes did say do not invent facts to suit theories, it is necessary to assume many theories and find the most suitable one. So it is not about inventing facts, but assuming the most suitable facts for temporarily uncertain facts  

[Discussion Thread about Rum]

On 5/11/2017 at 6:53 AM, gg1998 said:

You need a constant flow of Water to cut the mirror. That's what it is as explained in the end of the chapter. So if Kohji was dying and almost using his last bit of strength to cut the mirror he must have opened the taps in the place where he was cutting the mirror. According to you it was Amanda's room(i.e her bathroom) now if Kohji scrambled out of there, closing the taps,while holding the mirror in his left hand and the scissors in his dominant hand(right hand) reaches his room. Throws away the mirror, throws away the scissors, throws away a bunch of stuff to the ground. Doing all these while he's poisoned by APT which works almost instantly. See where the problem is your theory?

Also why did he think it was Rum, if Asaka attacked him and he saw Amanda's corpse then he would have implicated Asaka, because he didn't know about Rum's involvement.

You make possible flaws, however he wan't poisoned before throwing away the stuff. Rather it was after, and don't forget it was 17 years ago when Shiho was 1 year old, so most likely it was a prototype that had longer time to kill. And AGAIN he knew it was Rum because Amanda had slipped the information about Rum's MO (way of killing), perhaps because there was no implication of a force on the body hence he guessed it would be a prototype drug, therefore Rum. In contrast to Asaca who is more aggressive in their way of killing.

[Discussion Thread about Rum]

9 hours ago, gg1998 said:

Here the two assumption you are making which seem to be a little contentious 

1) Even if Amanda exposed Rum's name to Kohji, how was he so sure that Rum has done it in the first place, his first instinct would be to implicate Asaka.

2) So you're saying that Kohji already cut the mirror in Amanda's bathroom but then why the taps were left opened in Kohji's bathroom?(Okiya Subaru confirms this while he was asking whereabouts of the clenched scissors case.)3) 

 

Again, when Asaca attacked Kohji, he knew once he saw Amanda's body that it was Rum because of Rum MO. Something that perhaps he was told off by Amanda as well. Regarding the 2nd point, maybe Kohji was washing his face before being attacked by Asaca. However after the fight, he runs to Amanda's room to cut the mirror. And later he comes back to his room leaving the taps open, and if either Asaca or Rum closed it, then they would higher up the chances of leaving trail behind.

[Discussion Thread about Rum]

13 minutes ago, Chekhov MacGuffin said:

I think that makes more sense. Correct me if I am wrong, but here's how I think you've ordered events.

1. Amanda and Kohji meet at some previous time and Amanda tells Kohji about Rum. (Dunno why since Kohji is a just a chess/shogi player, but in Gosholand all sorts of weirdos turn out to be intelligence people.)

2. Amanda is in her room and Kohji is in his. Asaka enters Kohji's room and Rum enters Amanda's room. This happens roughly about the same time. Neither are initially aware of one another.

3. Rum kills Amanda. We don't know the method since that info was not given to us.

4. At the same time 3 is happening, Asaka tries to kill Kohji, but it doesn't go so well. They violently fight it out, but before Asaka can finish Kohji, s/he hears Rum and flees [where?].

5. Kohji escapes into Amanda's room while in a beaten-up state. Rum hears Kohji come in and hides (in the room?) somewhere.

6. Kohji sees Amanda's body and suspects Rum (not Asaka) did it. He starts making a dying message in Amanda's room at her sink.

7. Rum comes out of his hiding place, evaluates the situation, and decides to kill Kohji.

8. Rum catches up to Kohji, who has undertaken the effort of going back to his room to leave the dying message, gives him APTX, and he dies.

9. Rum doesn't notice the dying message and leaves.

(10. Asaka returns to the scene of the crime and runs off with the handmirror.)

 

If the setup is as you described, then parts 7-9 have the most problems. Rum was hiding while Kohji turned on the sink, made loud glass cutting sounds, and then held the mirror as he crawled back to his own room. Rum should have noticed that Kohji was prepping a dying message, even if he was out of line of sight while hiding nearby. Also, I am confused why Kohji needs to crawl back to his own room instead of leaving the message and his body in Amanda's room. Finally, if Rum wanted to keep his hands clean, I could see why he might use APTX, but it would fit Asaka's modus more if he just beat Kohji to death with something on hand like a chair. Overall this version is an improvement over the previous iteration.

More or less the order is right, but perhaps Rum did not know how many people were in the room, so he decided to wait on it since he heard no scream. Rather than exposing himself, he would wait for a minute maybe while texting someone. Kohji, for his part would want to hide the mirror in his already messy room since it wouldn't make sense for a cut mirror to be on his body or Amanda's. So he tries his best to hide it by moving to his room, for it is the best option he could've think so in his state. Rum also knows about APTX way of killing, so since he is short on time and don't want to implicate another culprit is involved in the crime by using a tool that is not compatible with Asaca (Asaca perhaps brought his/her weapon and  beaten Kohji with it, so using another tool would implicate another person. Hence it is best to use APTX in order to ensure nothing traces back to him).

[Discussion Thread about Rum]

5 hours ago, Chekhov MacGuffin said:

 

I like the creativity behind splitting the dying message into two parts, but this part seems like the weakest link in this theory. Why would Rum go out of his way to get involved in someone else's murder job? True, doing his murder while another is being committed so the other killer takes the blame is a viable strategy, but the problem is that this scenario as you conceived it doesn't achieve this objective. If Killer A kills Victim A, and Killer B kills Victim B, but Killer B wants to blame it on Killer A, then Killer B needs to make his murder look like Killer A's style, use the same murder weapon, disguise like Killer A, or something like that. If Victim A is Kohji and Killer A is Asaka, then Killer A is a messy incautious person. Killer B didn't match that modus operandi by killing Victim B (Amanda) so cleanly.

The other weak point is how would Kohji have time to leave the dying message or even know that someone named Rum was going to kill him while he was lying there in a half-dead state, having already been thrashed by Asaka as you theorized? The cutting of the glass mirror requires concentration, time, and being able to stand at the sink in Amanda's room (the sink was left running in that room so it makes sense for Kohji to cut it there.) I could see Kohji pulling it off as a healthy young man dying of APTX slowly and pouring in his last strength, but someone beaten to hell and back would have a hard time.

 

My take on the case right now, not knowing much about the room setup, is that Kohji trashed his own room to hide his dying message after making it in Amanda's room. The way I see this roughly going down is:

1: Amanda and Kohji were both "killed" in Amanda's room. After getting physically assaulted by Rum (explaining the face injures) to subdue him, Kohji was dosed with APTX. Rum took off or was otherwise uninvolved after this because he thought this part of his job was done.

2: Kohji didn't die immediately. Instead, he cut the mirror he habitually carried with him at Amanda's sink with the last of his strength.

3: Kohji went back to his own room for whatever reason, dropped the shards and the mirror, and chucked a bunch of stuff on the floor so the mirror wouldn't immediately be recognized as a dying message (thus preventing it from being tampered with in case his killer returned to the scene or had accomplices among the first discoverers).

4. Kohji succumbed. There isn't much blood around his smashed up face because he died somewhere different than he was attacked.

 

One definitely half-baked idea I want to throw out there, as weird as it sounds, is that Kohji could have moved between rooms to protect someone who was secretly present at or present but incapacitated in one of the rooms as a witness. Rum didn't know that witness was there and committed the murders, but Kohji didn't want the innocent witness discovered and did the whole room switch thing to provide an opportunity for this person to mix in with the first discoverers and escape. Asaka is the most sensible candidate of course, but I can't explain why he/she would be hidden and not trying to smash Rum's face in as a bodyguard ought to save Amanda and Kohji. As for how Rum could have overlooked them... uh maybe he had a one eye problem and just totally missed them obviously because they were in his blindspot? That might explain how Asaka knows the killer has a fake eye/is blind on one side and gets triggered by half-blind people.... (kind of implying Asaka is Rumi here)

Regarding your first thoughts , I think that Rum didn't know about the intended crime of Kohji's. Here how it might've happened؛ Rum arrived to kill Amanda, however Asaca went on to kill Kohji. Rum having killed Amanda, he heard someone coming in so he hid in the room. Kohiji arrived having out run his killer and is leaving the evidence behind, however he witness Amanda's body and figure out it is Rum's doings since Amanda has already leaked to Kohji about the existence of Rum. So he leaves behind evidence regarding both Rum and Asaca, and just as Rum is about to come out and kill Kohji. Asaca arrives and beats Kohji, however Asaca hears Rum and quickly escapes  (it could be also that Kohji was attacked as he was exiting Amanda's room). Rum enters the room out of his hiding place, and thinks of blaming it all on Asaca. So he goes after the beaten Kohji whos crawling his way back to his room to hide his hints, Rum catches up and kills him using APTX 4869. However Rum fails at noticing the evidence left behind, and if Amanda and Kohji knew about Rum's existence then it is most likely Asaca knew as well. Thats why Asaca went into hiding, and why the BO freaks out about anything related to Asaca who knows about Rum and might expose his crime.

[Discussion Thread about Rum]

2 hours ago, gg1998 said:

Correctly said, if we can speculate a bit on that then we can assume that Rum is around 50-52, now. When he was a young man in his early 30's he kept flowing black hair, then the Kouji murder case forced him to do away with his hair(maybe someone had spotted him with a long/flowing hair) and then comes his second avatar, and gradually becoming an old man (50 is somewhat old in Japanese standards)

Maybe in that double murder screw up he somehow lost his eye and his face was seen. So he did away with his hairs. So the case is now like this, bat shit crazy people are roaming around the Beika area( A deadly yet mentally unstable school teacher, An equally crazy and dangerous Police chief, A sushi chef who tries to show off his eye injury despite claiming that it's still healing and a Bishonen Butler doing some bidding for a spoilt brat) but is Rum one of them?

During the Koji case there was a dying message which named his killer, now Koji won't know Rum's code name as he wasn't connected to BO. So the dying message named Rum and the body-guard of Amanda(who was also killed) is still missing and is the prime suspect of the double murder.

Now nobody seemed to have read the dying message properly and Asaka is the prime suspect. So Rum gives almost flying damns to those revelations about the Asaca song and Hotta's claims.

BO seemed to make a move because they found the similarity of the dying message and the spelling of Asaca song, so they wanted to know how the singer got the title's spelling/how much he really does know about the situation.

But there were three other Belligerents in that same case, a)Asaka, b)The Up-loader(considering Asaka isn't the up-loader) of Koji case c)Akai-san's dad.

So either Wakita is Rum( as Kogoro got involved in Soul detective case, Rum would like to know whether Kogoro is really interested in that case and how much he knows about Rum.) or Rum is yet to make a move as he already knows that Hotta was killed before he could meet Kogoro.

Mary and Sera are not the uploaders, because when Sera explained the stuff, Hotta was planning to Mary, Mary termed it as boring. So Mary already have enough info on that case but the up-loader seems to have no idea about Asaka's gender and Asaka's possession of a hand-mirror.

If we assume that Asaka made out of there alive then he/she would be on the run hiding from BO, probably he'she won't try so perseverely to upload the Haneda case files, when they are being taken down frequently. So it would be a bit unlikely for Asaka to do that.

We know Akai-senior was investigating the case, that's why Mary knows enough to term Hotta's knowledge boring. He probably went too close to the organization and had to go underground for self preservation.

Now if two Koji case related stuff comes up, these three people would come out with all guns blazing because they want to get Rum's head at all cost.

 

 

I've been dwelling on the Kohji's case, and I don't know for sure as it is still too vague, but here's what I've concluded thus far. It is possible that the murders of Amanda and Koji are different, in the sense that it's a different criminal for each crime. If you think about it, the most logical answer for way one room is neat while the other is messy despite the fact that one victim is an old female and the other is a young male, it is merely done by different criminals who had different approaches. However as much as Amanda's crime went, one can assume it is an act of Rum's to do an excellent job. He could've escaped without any reason to kill Koji even if Amanda is his fan, the alternative is that Koji's killer is someone different than Rum who had different approach. The best suitable criminal would be the bodyguard Asaca, who either acted on him/herself or maybe was employed by Amanda who's BO ties made her think to cut all links with the CIA and FBI thus making Tsutomo Akai investigating her, while Amanda lowered Koji's alert by visiting him as a 'fan' with a bodyguard. However after she was killed by Rum, as the BO suspected she would cut her ties with them and the CIA FBI making her a liability. Asaca beaten Koji Almost to deat, as she/he heard Rum approaching Asaca quickly escaped. Rum having thought it out that Asaca is the killer, he inject the barely living Koji with the APTX 4869 and killing him with the finishing blow and blaming it all on Asaca. Rum's mistake is only the evidence left behind by Koji, who simply alluded to two different killers of him and Amanda ASACA and RUM. If Wakasa Rumi is Asaca then she is most likely vengeful for the BO for blaming her for both murders, however this would contradict the theory that Haibara feels she is safe and the fact that she is taking care of the DB. Tsutomo however, was followed by BO for his investigations, and after they find out about him mingling in Amanda's business, he decides to disappear. Akai probably knew his father had infiltrated the BO and so did his mother since she was the sister of their lead scientist, therefore forcing him to join the FBI who has yet to infiltrate the BO. Since the BO are setting their eyes on CIA and MI6 (due to Tsutomo and Mary). 

 

Regarding Rum, I'm suspecting the old blind man at the Kendo tournament. If you think about it, he might've done some digging and knew a murder will occur and where. Thus anticipating it, and sitting there in advance pretending to be blind. He also provided a fabricated clue in order to test whether his suspensions are wrong or right regarding the fact that Conan is the true brains and likely is Shinichi, he knew this probably from the Metropolitan police inside man from the BO who heard from Kuroda about Conan being the sac of wisdom. However the one who did solve the crime at the end is Heiji which might have unintentionally helped Conan to throw off the blind man's suspensions. However I have nothing to back this theory expect for the mere fact that the blind man was way too mysterious and shady (Why in the world would someone sit next to the bathrooms), wearing a black shirt and having those shady eyeglasses glare that Conan exhibits when he solves a crime. It is only a theory, and a weak one.   

[Discussion Thread about Rum]

3 minutes ago, gg1998 said:

It's a very reasonable assumption. Maybe Rum aged just like a normal human being and the three descriptions come from three different points of time.

Rum is also not a very visible BO member, as he's the second in command, his appearance would be very limited to lower ranking BO members and as he's known to be the second in command. So lack of visibility, a story about having a prosthetic eye and gradual ageing did the rest. A good theory, the only possible fragility is that we have no evidence to support that the three descriptions came from three different points of time. If somehow that's ensured then we can put a stamp on your theory without any doubt.

Unfortunately as of yet there is no evidence to support it, however if you tie it with the fact that if indeed Rum has appeared. Then you can assume he have no long hair as of the current timeline, since we have not been introduced to an old man (considering this to be the de facto current attribute of Rum since he is that old). Then the theory holds, as the most characters who are male old and with long hair has either died or exposed (except for Mr. Masakage the magician, though I doubt Gosho has planned that far ahead). You also can say that the 'accident' that gave Rum his prosthetic eye has also changed his appearance, hence the contradicting descriptions. 

[Discussion Thread about Rum]

Hey everyone, it's been a long time ! Anyways, I think maybe we have thought about Rum's attributes from a closed angle. Most if not all have compared Rum's descriptions to the Apartment store case, however what if it is not scene related but time related. For example, it is not that some agents saw him as strong or effeminate. But rather it is that at different times he was seen differently, simple as that. Perhaps in youth he had long hair which made everyone think he is effeminate, but later he cuts it short or keeps it (like Shuu in a way XD). He is now considered old, because for the new B.O agents he will look old and a more senior agent. And maybe strong due to either natural ability or again time related, or maybe just like how in the 20 movie, he mostly recruits female agents to be under him directly perhaps as they are pron to his manipulation than men. And these female agents would describe him as strong in relation to them. What do you think?

[Suspicious characters! Discussion about Hyoue Kuroda, Wakasa Rumi, and others.]

31 minutes ago, MeiTanteixX said:

Hmm...

His hair seems different though. And the mystery man seems to have distinguishable cheekbones.

 

Interesting comparison nonetheless.

Though in the anime depiction only the clothes are similar..

[Suspicious characters! Discussion about Hyoue Kuroda, Wakasa Rumi, and others.]

On 3/4/2017 at 2:23 AM, MeiTanteixX said:

Still, she's dealing with a completely different opponent that she has never fought against before,... a teen in a child's body, who should be limited in every way, which makes it easier for her to underestimate his capabilities(yet he proved how well he could utilize his surroundings[Gadgets, allies etc.] to the point that he could be a "Silver Bullet").

 

I think it's a big stretch to jump that far ahead with the assumption that Rumi is completely beyond Conan level, based on a one-time deal where she hints him(while being on equal ground with him(since in File 966, she had a time advantage)). Subaru has shown to be on Conan's level, and even he has hinted to Conan before. Sure, we didn't see what gave Rumi the idea with the balancing toy, but that doesn't really tell us the level she is in comparison to Conan(considering that she really just hinted at one part of the trick).

 

I still don't think this is a matter of her getting smarter, but rather her revealing how smart she is. I still can't see her as inferior in any way during the Fullmoon showdown, just because Conan took her by surprise(due to her underestimation). Even a great genius can miscalculate and underestimate(especially when most of their data is controlled and limited[Since Conan made sure that she didn't know of his true awareness, and that she didn't find out about his secret counter-attack]).

 

There's no precedent that proves otherwise either. I can't take Pisco's knowledge of the SB research process as fact, since he wasn't a research-mate. In the end, I prefer not to overlook any possibilities(just because they don't have a precedent).

 

Actually, it's clearly shown in the manga too(File 351):

I'm saying that this flashback scene is most likely real(why else make it so elaborate for a lie), but the story about Chris disguising as this mystery man is fake(Sharon was most likely covering up her secret meeting with this man, and since there was rumors about her bad relationship with Chris, this "meeting with a man" story probably hit the news and Sharon covered it up with the "chris" lie). Point is, that's not necessarily the husband's real appearance(because he might be someone else), and there was a memorial/grave of her husband in the US.

 

I've got a look alike suspect for the husband, although Gosho may have alluded to the denial of the connection. Still the resemblance is uncanny..

 

As you can see, Eri Kisaki's father is similar in face structure and hair tune to the mysterious man. And in the same posture, but nothing can be proven and it is only a possibility though it is 25 chapter later.

[Haneda Kohji Case Theories]

1 minute ago, MeiTanteixX said:

I will address my thoughts on that thoroughly soon, but the fact that Kouji was able to leave message to begin with is an interesting discussion topic in of itself.

I think that if my theory is right, then perhaps the killer of Amanda Hughes is Rum. But the killer of Kouji is a different one, perhaps the person who impersonated Asaca and a disciple of Rum. Who after the failed perfect crime scene being ruined by the mess of Kouji's room, managed to escape and therefore the BO is sensitive about it. Kouji's ability to leave such a message, is the result of Asaca being scolded by Rum and is instructed to search for Kouji who meanwhile leaves his message, only to be killed shortly after. Or Asaca is an agent of a police agency (perhaps the FBI) being hired by Amanda, who did try to delay Kouji's murder by fighting off the killer (Rum or his accomplices). Many things can be said about this case, as no evidence or clues are out yet.

[Haneda Kohji Case Theories]

2 minutes ago, MeiTanteixX said:

The whole point with the missing letters was meant so that the culprit wouldn't notice the dying message immediately, so I think it's better that we focus on "U MASCARA" instead.

 

That's a clever strategy and it makes sense, but that's beyond my reach of knowledge

Perhaps, but I was thinking that Kouji might have predicted that his killer would think of the U MASCARA, Therefore the first letters are the true message. Yet again, I doubt that the killer would leave any message of the victim laying around. It's still too vague for us to be certain of anything at this point..

[Haneda Kohji Case Theories]

As most of us already know by this point about the Haneda Kouji's dying message, I thought we might work something out if we do it in a separate topic. As far as the conclusion of Conan and Shuichi came to, I'm still doubtful about their resolve. Even though the BO thinks of the code in the same manner as Conan and Shuuichi think of (as proven in the "A Song named Asaka" Case), I still am curious about it's true meaning. Instead of the left off characters, I though of the PTON characters, I managed to find a certain idea. Though it might be all wrong, I just want to share it, it might help with something else. So PTON is what Kouji left in a mirror cut by him. Since he is a Shogi player, I took the idea to know if these letters mean anything in Shogi although I'm not an expert of the game. I manged to get the following; if P is the abbreviation of the pawn and another Japanese abbreviation is Fu, and the N is the abbreviation of cassia horse which also have the Japanese abbreviation of Kei. Then PTON could mean; Fu TO Kei, which might mean FUKEI, that perhaps coincidentally means policewoman in Japanese. Perhaps it is Kouji's way of saying that his killer is a policewoman, perhaps I'm thinking too deep into it. Just thought it might be an interesting idea.